Vaalintine
Wild Wondorous Wolfalope
Yeah, but what about actual psykers?
Shroud (Grey Goo game Shroud SI / Warhammer 40k)
- Location
- Kansas
I'm guessing that the level of connection affects the evolution. The question is if the thing effected is the max of the evolution or the rate of the evolution.
In other word can only Psykers reach the thirds stage, or can non-psykers reach it but it simply takes so long the human might die before reaching the final stage?
We Just Write
Blatantly Plural
- Location
- New England
- Pronouns
- Plural
Considering that one of the MCs is a Psyker with a Symbiont, we're certainly about to find out.
Given the presence of Valiants in Sanctuary would imply there is understanding between the two.
They even know what food the Shroud likes.
The Emperor is an amoral megalomaniac human supremacist control freak.
Of course he'd hate it. He might use it, but he'll hate it and try to subvert it.
But there's no current indication that the Emperor or his sons are part of this story.
- Location
- miami
True but in the lore the grand crusade smashed a bunch of small empires during the crusade. But it might be a better story to leave his golden ass out of it. and the emperor was trying to destroy chaos while not telling anyone why they can't worship god and half his sons were fucking crazy. I always got the vibe the old ones fucked the universe up somehow making the webway, chaos is supposed to exist but not be able to corrupt everyone and your dog
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It's year 40k so this is about 10,000 years after the Horus Heresy ( Warhammer 30k).
By cannon: Grand crusade is over, Emperor is a skeleton abomination thing on a Golden Throne.
That being said, according to Some Random Guy, the oldest Unit is some 10,000 years old. Which could be complete and total bullshit.
"See that thing? It's 10,000 years old. I'm totes legit."
Depending on how this goes...
If she's not bullshitting:
This could be Part Two of the Men of Iron - now with 10,000 years of Secret Build Up. Or 5000 years dormant then reactivated....
Or any number of things. She may have "accidentally" smothered Horus in his sleep, or put a bullet in the Emperors head 10,000 years ago. Or put a thingy on the souls of the Primarchs... or the Emperor.
Or she could be bullshitting and pretending to be the Men of Iron.
Or this story could be mislabeled. Warhammer 40k is the generic setting...
Annnnnnd, I just did a quick google search. It's been a few years since I've touched Warhammer (Dawn of War PC version with all the Xpacs). Welp, my knowledge of the cannon universe just got retconned...
I take it all back, at this point I think Space Marines might be a thing in cannon....
In Drich's AU? Maybe, maybe not....
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Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
The Empyrean is supposed to exist, Chaos is a perversion of the Empyrean caused by the War in Heaven ruining everything forever. The Empyrean is supposed to embody both positive and negative aspects of emotions and psyche, but the War in Heaven was so horrible on such a massive scale that the negative aspects totally overwhelmed the positive aspects and formed a self-perpetuating cycle of evil in the form of the Ruinous Powers, or Chaos Gods. Despite appearances the Ruinous Powers actually do embody positive concepts as well as negative ones; Khorne has Honor and Respect, Nurgle has Love and Acceptance, Tzeentch has Hope and Knowledge and Slaanesh has Joy and Creativity. It is just that these aspects are drowned out, perverted and twisted by the overwhelming mass of negativity, pain and suffering that embodies the majority of their essence.
Incidentally, Khorne is also the patron deity of Motherhood and Childbirth, as the process is both bloody and painful and generally pretty damn hardcore. This is partially why Khorne has a Valkyrie, and while yes that is Fantasy, as of 8th edition it has been made official that the Ruinous Powers of 40K and Fantasy are in fact the same trans-dimensional entities that exist across multiple realities along with the Warp itself, so it is not actually impossible that she could turn up in 40k under the right circumstances. She's pretty busy in Age of Sigmar though, managing a Valhalla expy and being Khorne's waifu, so such an appearance would be unlikely.
As for how Crusade Era Emps would see the Shroud, that is very much up in the air. On the one hand, Crusade Era Emps was when he was at the height of his arrogance and self-righteousness, on the other hand his original doctrine did allow for Xenos to be okay, as long as those Xenos did not threaten humanity or the Imperium. It's just that it turned out that basically every Xeno was either hostile from the start or turned hostile when confronted with the overwhelming ham-fisted might of the Imperium, with only a few rare exceptions like the Jokaero. That several of the Primarchs went rogue, either due to their own prejudices or thanks to Chaotic influences, and waged war on potentially peaceful Xeno populations did not help matters.
There will likely be a fight at first, but depending on how scary the Shroud appear to a powerful Psyker like the Emprah the possibility of diplomacy does exist. That said, it does seem more likely that he would erroneously interpret the Symbiont relationship as parasitical rather that symbiotic and get spooked by the Shroud being Xenos, fortunately we're at least a good ~5000 odd years away from the Crusade era, so it's gonna be awhile before Emps shows his golden face.
And if Drich plays things right, there might be a chance to stop Magnus from breaking the psychic exclusion zone around the Human Webway project, which would let Emps use his power to heal himself after fighting Horus instead of burning it all on keeping an infinite tide of Daemons out of Terra, thus dodging the 'corpse onna throne' problem.
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Multi-User-Mainframe: Database // Tak Records // The Shroud // Symbiosis
Drich
Von Neumann Writing Machine
More lore, because I'm bored.
Multi-User-Mainframe: Database // Tak Records // The Shroud // Symbiosis
+++
By far the oddest behaviour of the Shroud, but also the most beneficial to us.
Symbiosis is a process by which the Shroud implants itself into the body and soul of another being. While this does not sound like a good thing, it is surprisingly benevolent.
It begins, as things often do with the Shroud, with an energy-embryo. I'm not yet certain where it comes from, but I can say that prolonged physical contact with any Shroud lifeform allows it to transfer the embryo into another host.
This host is inevitably a living creature that possesses a soul with a connection to the Warp above a certain strength. Measuring this is difficult for us, requiring extensive examination with specialist tools, but the Shroud is capable of doing so easily through an unknown method. Most Humans measure above the threshold.
Once implanted into the host, the embryo grows within the soul and the body of them, drawing energy from the Warp through the soul's own connection. The first stage of Symbiosis is marked with the host's decreasing need for food, drink, and sleep, as well as a quickening of healing rates and a demonstrated protectiveness from Shroud lifeforms.
As the embryo grows, it is capable of drawing more and more Warp energy through the soul, consuming it to fill its own growth. A small portion of the energy it gathers is transferred into the host's body, which is responsible for the host's decreased needs. At this stage, the embryo is an immaterial entity, existing mostly as an energy matrix within the host's soul and body, possessing little to no capability on its own.
Stage two begins once the embryo is sufficiently grown that it can indefinitely draw in more energy than the host needs to stay active. At this point, the host needs no food or drink, and sleeps only to maintain their mental health. It's at this stage where it is possible to see physical signs of the symbiosis, namely a soft blue light radiating from the chest of the individual in question. This light is not particularly strong, and emits from a small portion of the skin at the approximate center of the chest. It can be covered up by clothing, and in the early period of stage two, even by sunlight.
At stage two, the Shroud is no longer as protective of the host. This is because the Shroud Symbiont is itself capable of protecting the host should danger appear; mostly by physically manifesting energy around the host, capable of forming either armour or weapons, as well as enhancing strength, agility, and reaction speed. Later on, it may also gain the ability to attack at range, flinging bolts of energy at any aggressor.
Whatever excess energy is not used to protect the host and grow the Symbiont is transferred to the nearest Entity. As the Symbiont can draw from the Warp, this effectively turns the host and Symbiont into a slow but endless font of energy for the Shroud.
Stage three is the final stage of Symbiosis, occuring once the Symbiont reaches the maximum amount of energy it can draw from the Warp through the soul of the host at any given point in time. A person's soul is only so capable of drawing from the Warp, and while the Symbiont is capable of artificially increasing this amount, even the Symbiont can only push it so far. The Symbiont, however, is fully grown, developed to utilize the totality of energy it can draw from the host.
For most normal Humans, there is not a particularly large difference between stage two and stage three. The only visible part of it is the strength of the light they emit, which typically does not grow particularly strong. When the Symbiont manifests, it will only be able to create a body of slightly larger than Human size, though it will possess strength and agility far surpassing that of the host. Most Symbionts will likely still appear as armour and weapons, rather than a fully realized creature in its own right, providing protection and enhancement for the host. Even ones that do appear as full creatures will not be able to leave the immediate vicinity of the host.
For certain beings, particularly Psykers, with an innate and stronger connection to the Warp, stage three can be a dramatic difference. The Symbiont will keep growing based on the amount of energy it can draw, and the Symbiont of a stage three Psyker is typically extremely powerful. For approximately the same reason, this makes Psykers the favored host of the Shroud, as their strong and particularly connected souls enables the Shroud to draw in vastly more energy from them.
Symbionts of a stage three Psyker can materialize whole bodies with ease, at sizes significantly larger than the host. It might also be able to manifest multiple bodies, as well as weapons and armour for the host. A stage three Psyker Symbiont is a force to be reckoned with, even at quite a distance, not only from the physical form of the Symbiont, but also the host's increased reaction speed, strength, and agility.
Aside from the physical benefits of Symbiosis, the host also enjoys a number of other effects. Most notably, the host becomes effectively immune to Warp corruption. The Symbiont either absorbs or repels Warp energies, and while this could be theoretically overwhelmed with enough power, the amount required to overwhelm the Symbiont would immediately kill the host and destroy the soul. Hosts are, further, also resistant to most forms of direct psychic assault, as the Symbiont will either absorb or repel the energy making up the attack. Hosts also effectively jam most forms of psychic perception, precognition included, on account of the constant Warp-disruption the Symbiont causes.
There is also, of course, the benefit provided by the Symbiont. At stage three, Symbionts have bonded tightly to the host, and understands the host's thoughts, emotion, and will. This allows the host to direct the Symbiont as they wish, giving them access to the breadth of abilities available to the Symbiont. As each Symbiont is unique and evolves in response to the host, so too does the abilities available to any given host vary. Symbionts of Psykers have a tendency to display particularly powerful abilities, across a wide range of subjects.
One note of Psyker Symbionts, however, is that a Psyker, because their Symbiont is monopolizing all Warp Energy that can be gained through the Soul, effectively loses their Warp-based abilities. For latents who have not yet figured out how to use their abilities, this makes no real difference. For realized Psykers, this loss instead trades personal Warp-based abilities for general protection from the predations of the Warp, and, in time, learning how to use Shroud Energy to replicate the effects of their original powers. Most consider this tradeoff worth it, especially since Symbionts can continuously draw more energy than a Psyker alone could, typically making them both more powerful and more focused.
The time it takes to progress through the stages of Symbiosis is dependent on the strength of the Warp connection the host possesses. At lower strengths, it may take years to progress to stage two, but only a month or two afterwards to progress to stage three. At higher strengths, especially for Psykers, it can take only weeks to reach stage two, but decades to reach stage three.
The stronger the connection, the stronger the Symbiont and host, and the longer it will take to reach the height of their possible power.
The Shroud does not attempt Symbiosis on anything with a Warp connection below a certain level, presumably because the amount that could be drawn from Symbiosis would be lower than what it would require, thus presenting an energy-drain, to no benefit.
I measure the strength of the Warp connection in grades. Grade zero, and below, the Shroud will not join with. The average Human falls within the range of Grade 1 through to Grade 3. The average Psyker falls into the range of Grade 6 through Grade 12. Particularly exceptional, or particularly poor, individuals may fall into a greater or lesser ranges.
Of course, that is only the averages for our world. Others might be different, higher or lower, and both cases certainly only apply to Humans and Human Psykers.
All in all, interesting and intriguing. And, about the only thing that saved our lives, on this world.
An example of the energy armour formed by the Shroud:
This armour still resembles parts of the current typical Shroud lifeforms, if only in the glowing blue lines and semi-organic dark greys.
Another example, this time a pair of fully-manifested Symbionts from two exceptional stage three twins, at Grade 5, though not actually psykers:
Note how Human these Symbionts look. This particular pair have had their Symbionts since early childhood, and the Symbionts have adapted completely to them, to the point of even having adopted apparent sexual dimorphism, based on the pair. Again, aside from the glowing blue light, the Symbionts no longer resemble typical Shroud lifeforms at all, having even adopted a seemingly partially mechanical nature, which I believe stems from the fact that the one who raised them was a Man of Stone.
It is fascinating, how completely the Shroud can change itself. Humans are the only beings I have seen the Shroud engage in Symbiosis with, and yet, it has resulted in lifeforms of many different shapes and sizes. What more can the future bring?
Multi-User-Mainframe: Database // Tak Records // The Shroud // Symbiosis
+++
By far the oddest behaviour of the Shroud, but also the most beneficial to us.
Symbiosis is a process by which the Shroud implants itself into the body and soul of another being. While this does not sound like a good thing, it is surprisingly benevolent.
It begins, as things often do with the Shroud, with an energy-embryo. I'm not yet certain where it comes from, but I can say that prolonged physical contact with any Shroud lifeform allows it to transfer the embryo into another host.
This host is inevitably a living creature that possesses a soul with a connection to the Warp above a certain strength. Measuring this is difficult for us, requiring extensive examination with specialist tools, but the Shroud is capable of doing so easily through an unknown method. Most Humans measure above the threshold.
Once implanted into the host, the embryo grows within the soul and the body of them, drawing energy from the Warp through the soul's own connection. The first stage of Symbiosis is marked with the host's decreasing need for food, drink, and sleep, as well as a quickening of healing rates and a demonstrated protectiveness from Shroud lifeforms.
As the embryo grows, it is capable of drawing more and more Warp energy through the soul, consuming it to fill its own growth. A small portion of the energy it gathers is transferred into the host's body, which is responsible for the host's decreased needs. At this stage, the embryo is an immaterial entity, existing mostly as an energy matrix within the host's soul and body, possessing little to no capability on its own.
Stage two begins once the embryo is sufficiently grown that it can indefinitely draw in more energy than the host needs to stay active. At this point, the host needs no food or drink, and sleeps only to maintain their mental health. It's at this stage where it is possible to see physical signs of the symbiosis, namely a soft blue light radiating from the chest of the individual in question. This light is not particularly strong, and emits from a small portion of the skin at the approximate center of the chest. It can be covered up by clothing, and in the early period of stage two, even by sunlight.
At stage two, the Shroud is no longer as protective of the host. This is because the Shroud Symbiont is itself capable of protecting the host should danger appear; mostly by physically manifesting energy around the host, capable of forming either armour or weapons, as well as enhancing strength, agility, and reaction speed. Later on, it may also gain the ability to attack at range, flinging bolts of energy at any aggressor.
Whatever excess energy is not used to protect the host and grow the Symbiont is transferred to the nearest Entity. As the Symbiont can draw from the Warp, this effectively turns the host and Symbiont into a slow but endless font of energy for the Shroud.
Stage three is the final stage of Symbiosis, occuring once the Symbiont reaches the maximum amount of energy it can draw from the Warp through the soul of the host at any given point in time. A person's soul is only so capable of drawing from the Warp, and while the Symbiont is capable of artificially increasing this amount, even the Symbiont can only push it so far. The Symbiont, however, is fully grown, developed to utilize the totality of energy it can draw from the host.
For most normal Humans, there is not a particularly large difference between stage two and stage three. The only visible part of it is the strength of the light they emit, which typically does not grow particularly strong. When the Symbiont manifests, it will only be able to create a body of slightly larger than Human size, though it will possess strength and agility far surpassing that of the host. Most Symbionts will likely still appear as armour and weapons, rather than a fully realized creature in its own right, providing protection and enhancement for the host. Even ones that do appear as full creatures will not be able to leave the immediate vicinity of the host.
For certain beings, particularly Psykers, with an innate and stronger connection to the Warp, stage three can be a dramatic difference. The Symbiont will keep growing based on the amount of energy it can draw, and the Symbiont of a stage three Psyker is typically extremely powerful. For approximately the same reason, this makes Psykers the favored host of the Shroud, as their strong and particularly connected souls enables the Shroud to draw in vastly more energy from them.
Symbionts of a stage three Psyker can materialize whole bodies with ease, at sizes significantly larger than the host. It might also be able to manifest multiple bodies, as well as weapons and armour for the host. A stage three Psyker Symbiont is a force to be reckoned with, even at quite a distance, not only from the physical form of the Symbiont, but also the host's increased reaction speed, strength, and agility.
Aside from the physical benefits of Symbiosis, the host also enjoys a number of other effects. Most notably, the host becomes effectively immune to Warp corruption. The Symbiont either absorbs or repels Warp energies, and while this could be theoretically overwhelmed with enough power, the amount required to overwhelm the Symbiont would immediately kill the host and destroy the soul. Hosts are, further, also resistant to most forms of direct psychic assault, as the Symbiont will either absorb or repel the energy making up the attack. Hosts also effectively jam most forms of psychic perception, precognition included, on account of the constant Warp-disruption the Symbiont causes.
There is also, of course, the benefit provided by the Symbiont. At stage three, Symbionts have bonded tightly to the host, and understands the host's thoughts, emotion, and will. This allows the host to direct the Symbiont as they wish, giving them access to the breadth of abilities available to the Symbiont. As each Symbiont is unique and evolves in response to the host, so too does the abilities available to any given host vary. Symbionts of Psykers have a tendency to display particularly powerful abilities, across a wide range of subjects.
One note of Psyker Symbionts, however, is that a Psyker, because their Symbiont is monopolizing all Warp Energy that can be gained through the Soul, effectively loses their Warp-based abilities. For latents who have not yet figured out how to use their abilities, this makes no real difference. For realized Psykers, this loss instead trades personal Warp-based abilities for general protection from the predations of the Warp, and, in time, learning how to use Shroud Energy to replicate the effects of their original powers. Most consider this tradeoff worth it, especially since Symbionts can continuously draw more energy than a Psyker alone could, typically making them both more powerful and more focused.
The time it takes to progress through the stages of Symbiosis is dependent on the strength of the Warp connection the host possesses. At lower strengths, it may take years to progress to stage two, but only a month or two afterwards to progress to stage three. At higher strengths, especially for Psykers, it can take only weeks to reach stage two, but decades to reach stage three.
The stronger the connection, the stronger the Symbiont and host, and the longer it will take to reach the height of their possible power.
The Shroud does not attempt Symbiosis on anything with a Warp connection below a certain level, presumably because the amount that could be drawn from Symbiosis would be lower than what it would require, thus presenting an energy-drain, to no benefit.
I measure the strength of the Warp connection in grades. Grade zero, and below, the Shroud will not join with. The average Human falls within the range of Grade 1 through to Grade 3. The average Psyker falls into the range of Grade 6 through Grade 12. Particularly exceptional, or particularly poor, individuals may fall into a greater or lesser ranges.
Of course, that is only the averages for our world. Others might be different, higher or lower, and both cases certainly only apply to Humans and Human Psykers.
All in all, interesting and intriguing. And, about the only thing that saved our lives, on this world.
An example of the energy armour formed by the Shroud:
Another example, this time a pair of fully-manifested Symbionts from two exceptional stage three twins, at Grade 5, though not actually psykers:
It is fascinating, how completely the Shroud can change itself. Humans are the only beings I have seen the Shroud engage in Symbiosis with, and yet, it has resulted in lifeforms of many different shapes and sizes. What more can the future bring?
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Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Hell, the Humans and the Goo from Grey Goo can do practical matter\energy conversion too, not just the Shroud, and pre Age of Strife Humanity from 40k could do matter\energy conversion as well. That the Shroud can do so is neither surprising, nor particularly unique.
Closer to hard light/force fields than energy to matter, though they can do that as well as the reverse if they want to.
When and where did Humanity have that technology? I never found such in 40k/30k lore, I mean real energy to matter conversion and not matter restructured. Humans and Gray Goo in the game still needed catalyst and it isn't really clear what that is, could be matter restructuring for all we know, or do you say the Beta could do energy to matter as well? They used the same resource.
Thing is the author stated a fully or half developed symbiont could keep a human alive. No food and liquids. That is energy to matter conversion and complex molecules on top of that. The human body doesn't only need energy to function it also needs nutrition's as building blocks and most important water. The human body consumes energy and resources, so it needs complex molecules and such. Which is a little more complex than metals and what have you ...
To be honest that is technological singularity kind of level bullshit, or just so.
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Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Sarcastic answer: Many Psyker powers involve manifesting material out of Warp stuff, including of course summoned Daemons.
I had thought that there was some DAoT stuff involving matter creation, but it turns out that was me misremembering; only the Necrons have demonstrated anything on that kind of level without using the Warp in some way and whether they actually do matter creation or something else is up in the air, given how little about is actually known about the principles behind Necron technology.
For Grey Goo, 'teleportation' of structures involves the structure breaking up into pieces which turn into glowing 'ghosts' made out of energy that then fly up into the sky, before flying down to 'solidify' and reassemble at the target location. I don't actually know why they call it teleporting, because it doesn't really look like teleportation at all, more like a slow version of Star Trek transporters. There's also the Alpha, which somehow 'stores inflicted damage' and turns it into a massive knockback shockwave, which implies some degree of matter\energy conversion. Finally, constructed structures partially appear formed out of glowing light shapes, and partially out of prefabricated pieces that drop down from orbit, which implies that there is indeed some matter creation going on, but that it is limited in some way and unsuitable for all aspects. Likely it is inefficient or ineffective at producing complex parts, or something along those lines.
That said, the Shroud Torrent transport is explicitly stated to store allied units as a compact energy matrix, and in its lore description it says that the Shroud are the only known life form that can freely switch between mass and energy. So regardless of whether or not Humanity has the ability to create matter, the Shroud absolutely, definitively do.
On the other hand, the source energy in question is Warp energy, which is demonstrably quite easy to transform into physical matter and energy as seen with Daemonic manifestations and a variety of Psyker powers. Furthermore, the Shroud are definitely a post-singularity civilization of some sort, and are explicitly stated to be capable of freely switching between mass and energy at-will. So yes, the Shroud would definitely be capable of energy to matter conversion of complex molecules.
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Too be honest that is fucking terrifying ... O.O
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
The Goo judged the Shroud to be an apocalyptic tier threat capable of reducing the entire galaxy\universe to 'zero' for a very good reason.
- Location
- Australia
Not necessarily. It could recycle waste products in the body. It could also simply suspend or alter all biological processes so no resources are consumed and have them function through telekinetic control, shroud powered nanomachines or warp abuse.
- Location
- miami
Yup the modern imperium could be looking at there only hope to escape the downward spiral they stuck in and still kill it. Which is probly why we wont see them for awhile or at all they will need a LONG time to build up otherwise the imperium will stump them. Also correct me if I'm wrong but was not the elder murder fucking a god in to existence that caused the human nations collapse?
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jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
They'll probably want to destroy the Shroud ASAP for a multitude of reasons. And only some of which are related to the knife-ears ego.