Pre-Collapse Humans,
Ahh, that's just temptation to make the faithful stray from the light of the omnissiah. That's the mechanicum set against you.

It's dosen't have to be a theistic society, secular ones manage hate just fine. Hate isnt rational. Xenos are the source of every bad thing in the world, and all other decisions flow from that. Why would you compromise with something that is the root of evil.

Modern antisemites such as Kevin MacDonald have a concept called the "kosher sandwich". They look at the world and see that in all the social causes that are being debated there are Jewish people on both sides of the issue. Antisemites say that

"da joos are controlling the debate sandwiching us between them. The only place that dosen't have Jewish people is the 'exterminate Jews" camp, and they are therefore correct."

There's a blog post that perfectly illustrates that, but it seems to have been taken down lol. Anyway. That idea is stupid on its face. The thing is, it isnt shows that hate can be immune to "ok your one of the good ones". In MacDonald's view of the world, it's not that half of judiasm is bad, and we need to reward the good side. It's that they are all bad, and making common cause with any of them weakens his cause, even if it seems that they are on the same side.

I cannot believe for a second that the imperium of 30k accepts the modern ideal of "it dosen't matter who you are, we should all work together". If that was the case, the diasporex or interex would not have happened. Offering a deal to only one half of the diasporex has to be an official policy is some sort at minimum. The Tau are a minor power on the fringes of the Galaxy and they have encountered vespid, kroot, nissicar and demiurge, all peacfull. The imperium controls the Galaxy. You do the math. How many civilizations should the imperium have integrated by now? Hint, it's not zero.
 
Source? I have a hard time imagining imperial doctrine leaving large numbers of civilians alive, or the imperium spending any effort on thier behalf when thier religion says that xenos are the root of all evil. We humans have declared other humans as being the source of all evil, and we saw how that worked out. Multiply that by religious war and add 20k years of paranoia.
The source that I'm sure is cannon is buried somewhere in Rogue Trader and I don't really have access.
I'd thought I had a second one from a cutscene(something something Tau worked to death in something something mines), but I can't find it in the amount of effort I'm willing to put in.

But setting aside my combination of laziness and trouble going through everything I'd need to to give you a quote, do you really think a Rogue Trader wouldn't? I mean extracting labour from Xenos while gradually killing them off(or just exploiting them in any way possible without bothering with killing them) is so far into their wheelhouse that it's kind of difficult to doubt.
Also the concentration camps thing just makes sense because killing large civilian populations without the aid of giving them false hope to weaken resistance is an unnecessarily huge amount of trouble, and if you've got them in an extermination camp you might as well get them to work to pay for the operation.

Though my guess that there may have been less-murderous forms of exploitation back before the rise of the Imperial Cult made xenocide a universally sacred calling is pure conjecture, and not supported by anything I've read.
 
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This conversation from Text-To-Speech is actually pretty accurate for how the Emprah feels about Xenos, at least until it gets silly.
 
This conversation from Text-To-Speech is actually pretty accurate for how the Emprah feels about Xenos, at least until it gets silly.
Ahh yes. And during the night of the imperium's power there were 0 species who managed to meet the emperor's criteria. It must be that humans are the only species that can exist in the Galaxy because all the other species are incapable of living in peace with humans. Ignore the Tau and how they have integrated at least 5 species peacfuly. It's not at all a problem with the imperium, it's a problem with all those nasty violent xenos. They just can't integrate into our culture.

I'd like for tts emperor to justify what happened to the diasporex.

Tts cannon is fun. It portrays a likeable emperor who is misled by advisors who hate everything new. The thing is, cannon dosen't show any evidence that big E tried at all to get the races of the Galaxy pulling in the same direction. He didn't make any discernable attempt to create a nation that took the strengths of all people. He either tried to create an humanocentric Paradise, or was fine with leveraging humanocentrism for his goals.

Prove to me anywhere that big E tried to integrate xenos into his nation? Jokeros arn't sentient.
 
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that even in the Imperial 40k era they still use xenos as slave/concentration camp labour. So there was probably a less terrible version of Xenos labour exploitation back then that would be accepted if a human-dominated civilisation joined the Imperium willingly.
Source? I have a hard time imagining imperial doctrine leaving large numbers of civilians alive, or the imperium spending any effort on thier behalf
Nah, keeping xeno protectorates was in the norm for the Imperium. Even if they were just used as resources by the Imperium.
The Adarnian race was decreed harmless during the Great Crusade, and allowed to live under an Imperial protectorate. It had not prevented them being harvested to extinction. Unluckily for them, their body chemistry had miraculous effects on the human organism.

'A shame… I… never…' he swallowed twice, trying to summon enough spit to lubricate his creaking larynx. 'Learned how to synthesise it,' he said in a breathless rush.

'Are you certain that now is the time, my lord? We could delay a few days. There is sufficient here to return you to health for a few months, no more. It may be better to wait until a candidate has been selected and returned to Terra.'

He closed his eyes. 'No. Do it now.'

He was too weak to hold out his arm, so Herminia pulled it gently from under the covers, fetched a stirrup rest and strapped the limb in place. The veins in the crook of his elbow were ruined by repeated injection, and it took an amount of coaxing to find a suitable place for the needle. The drug had to be administered directly into the bloodstream in large amounts; pneumatic injection or skin absorption would not do.

Adarnian elixir was the last resort of dying men when all other rejuvenats failed. It came with many prices, not least the atrocity of its making. The elixir was illegal, its use punishable by death. Sedayne didn't care about the xenos or the law, but there were other, more immediate costs. Firstly, when the elixir's positive effects were exhausted, the user returned to a worse state than before. Every dose brought the certainty of hurried deterioration. This last dose would kill him.

Secondly, there was pain.

'Are you ready?' she said.

He blinked his assent. She set the needle to his arm. She had no need to tell him it would hurt.

The bee sting of the needle piercing his flesh made him gasp. The real pain came with the plunger's depression. Health-giving poison pressed from the organs of sentient beings flooded his system, and with it came a fire that scoured age back with its heat, reforging frayed genes and kick-starting the machineries of life.

Stolen youth ran riot through his body.

Ezekiel Sedayne screamed.
 
Adarnian elixir was the last resort of dying men when all other rejuvenats failed. It came with many prices, not least the atrocity of its making. The elixir was illegal, its use punishable by death. Sedayne didn't care about the xenos or the law, but there were other, more immediate costs
Thanks! This is my new favorite text describing the imperium. Hey would you look at that! They were discovered during the great crusade!!! Wowe, how did tts emperor put it? "As long as they are under regulation they are alright?" I guess if your idea of regulation is "harvested for body juice" then the emperor is fine!!!

Imperium apologists sicken me. Accept that 40k has no good guy and get over it. The emperor is not a good guy. He is a tyrant of unimaginable proportions. Hail nurgle.
 
Thanks! This is my new favorite text describing the imperium. Hey would you look at that! They were discovered during the great crusade!!! Wowe, how did tts emperor put it? "As long as they are under regulation they are alright?" I guess if your idea of regulation is "harvested for body juice" then the emperor is fine!!!
I mean look at Grox, they are certainly xenos, non sapient but xenos all the same. Of course all that lobotomizing certainly helps. :whistle:
 
I think we are having a difference in terms I use xenos as what the imperium would classify species that have the ability to be a threat to the wider imperium. All sophont toolusers would fall under this catagory, and bioweapons that have ftl abilities.

You seem to be using it to describe any non terrestrial derived species. By that logic, any microbe on a planet would be xenos. I can't imagine a deathwatch marine taking samples such things. Useful animals or plants are just that in my conception. Definably any plants from holy Terra would be elevated in the eyes of the population, but if colonists land on a planet and find a tasty tuber and manage to domesticate it it would just be another plant.
 
Man, I just realized that the Federation's elite forces are gigantic muscle men and women who fight by manifesting their soul-symbiotes and punching the shit out of things.

The Orks are going to love the Federation.
 
Man, I just realized that the Federation's elite forces are gigantic muscle men and women who fight by manifesting their soul-symbiotes and punching the shit out of things.

The Orks are going to love the Federation.

The Orks largely love everyone who can give them a good fight.
 
The Orks largely love everyone who can give them a good fight.
But the Federation won't just give them a good fight, it will give them a good fight in the most Orkiest way; huge muscle-beings beating the ever-loving crap out of each other in glorious melee combat.

Orks love dakka, and they can never have enough dakka, but there is something inherently Orky about punching some git in the snout to establish dominance. (And then taking his teef and using them to buy a mug of fungus-beer and a squig-pie.)
 
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4.2
4.2

+++

The trouble with Stage Four of Project Moth is that it relied entirely on what we found outside the Warp Storm. The actions to take in response to finding a Federation remnant was completely different to the actions to take in response to finding a dead galaxy, and different again in finding a galaxy that was actively at war and on fire.

...

Being completely honest, I'd been expecting the latter. Warhammer 40k was not the kind of setting that was kind. This whole sequence of events had seemed to me to be leading up to a cruel punchline, because that was just what happened in 40k.

I had no intentions to surrender to that, of course. I'd fight back with everything I had, if I needed to.

I had just been expecting...

Something more immediately dangerous.

What we've got so far is an area of space that is roughly clear of Warp Storms, except the one we just left, with a beacon of light declaring to everybody around that there is a civilization on Earth.

We're three thousand light years away from Earth.

That was not a particularly big deal. Wormholes could get us across that distance easily. Even Warp Drives could reliably cross that distance in as little as a few months, if they got lucky. Even if they got unlucky and hit a bad current, it would still only be a year or two.

There was an implication that came with that, however. Three thousand light years away from Earth was basically Sol's backyard. That neither the Empyreal Sensor arrays of the Lightchaser Fleet or my own admittedly not-great ability to sense the Warp could see ships within our immediate vicinity indicated that Big E was still just starting the Great Crusade. Timaeus' age would apparently deny this, at a hundred and thirty five, but time was always a little bit funky when the Warp was involved.

As indicated by the fact that, to us, it had been about two hundred years since the fall of the Federation, a hundred and thirty five since Timaeus landed here, yet both of these events would have been thousands of years apart in realspace.

'Significant Time Dilation' indeed.

To be completely honest, we had probably time traveled outright at least once in all of this.

Where was I going with this?

Right, yes, Big E.

And being that it was still, apparently, in the early stages of the Great Crusade...

There was a possibility, there.

I'll make something clear.

I did not want to fight Big E.

To be honest, I didn't really feel like fighting much of anybody.

There were all of three types of beings around that I really have inimical problems with, and only one of those that I'd actively seek out.

Those three were Tyranids, Orks, and Chaos. Tyranids because they would eat every bit of biomass in the galaxy if they were allowed to, Orks because they would fight everything in the galaxy if they were allowed to, and Chaos because...

Well, Chaos.

That was, I hope, self-explanatory.

The Tyranids aren't even around at the moment, either. They're in 'nowhere-near-here' land. Ergo, they weren't really a problem, either.

As for everybody else...

Well... What about them, really?

Most minor species pose no real threat to us. In terms of the actual major players?

Eldar? The Exodites aren't a problem, Dark Eldar don't actually exist yet, the Corsairs are too small (and also don't really exist yet), and the things that make the Craftworlders truly dangerous also get hard-countered by presence. The Silence hid us just fine, and coupled with the constant energy being drained from the Warp through my Symbionts, we created disruption that prevented Warp-based precognition and detection, and without that, the Craftworlders were significantly easier to deal with. That I also hard-countered psychic phenomena in general was just icing on the cake, because that ruled out a lot of their more troublesome thing.

Necrons? Currently sleeping. But, even if they were awake, they're far from a unified empire, and... Frankly, they can't really grow faster than I can. Necrons had the most advanced technology in the galaxy, but they weren't invulnerable. Just like everybody else, hitting them with enough energy worked fine. There were two things to fear from them; the C'tan shards and the Crypteks. The former because of their power, the latter because of their knowledge.

Tau? Nonexistent at the moment. Or, rather, some minor species on some minor planet that was still banging rocks together to see what would happen. Even if this was the forty-first millennium, they would still be too small to matter.

Hrud? Not nearly big enough to be a true threat.

And who did that leave?

The Imperium.

Oh, sure, there were a thousand other empires and polities around the galaxy in this era. Some of them Human, some of them alien, some of them corrupted by Chaos, some of them bigger than others, but just about every single one of those polities had been overcome by the Imperium, in the end.

I did not fear the Imperium.

Or, at least, not its military.

Grand armies and mighty fleets didn't matter very much when they had little ability to find me and less to catch me. The Imperium's FTL was just too woefully limited, in that regard, by time and distance and safety. Its production capacity, its industry... large, but incapable of matching my own growth rates.

Certainly, the Imperium had many brilliant admirals and generals. Sure, I was a beginner in space-combat, and I was likely to have my ass handed to me by whatever brilliant stratagems they could employ.

But there was a reason that professionals studied logistics.

How could a fleet be a threat when I could be gone before they arrived? When I needed at most a minute to go where they needed hours? Days? Potentially even weeks?

I was going to dictate 99.99% of engagements. And I was going to do so in a manner that forced the opponent to invest in heavy defenses, because my strikes could happen at any time, from any angle, with nobody else having the chance to react.

Forcing an engagement with me was no easy task.

It required threatening something that couldn't easily get away. That said, the only things I really cared about were the Lightchasers, and as one might note, they're far from defenceless, and so long as I'm nearby, everything that applied to me in terms of mobility also applied to them.

No. I did not fear the Imperium's military.

What was concerning was a much simpler fact, quick and obvious.

They were Human.
 
The Federation people are going to want to get along. You're human, we're human, wasn't that war with the Men of Iron a real kick to the pants? Let's get along.

And the Imperium is going to react vividly but in a thousand different directions. Some will hate them because of Drich, others will be interested because they can kill demons. Some will see the Men of Stone and scream litanies of hate for the abominable intelligences. Others will just be happy and want to reunite with their brothers. Even others will want to be allies, but rather they keep their strange symbiotic culture over there and to themselves.

And the Emps won't stand for humans that aren't part of his Imperium. His response to the horror of the last few millenia is essentially to become the ultimate control freak as far as humanity is concerned. It's his way or splat. No third options.

Any of these alone would be difficult and fraught with hard choices. Together? There will be attempts at friendship. There will be drama. There will be betrayals. The Imperium holds the capacity to harm Drich's people in a way no other can... They can break their heart.

Or at least that's my take. We'll have to see if Drich agrees based on future updates.
 
I feel like I'm missing something important here... Any of you other brainy chaps or chapets got any ideas?
At risk of this being kinda out there/too meta to matter, Humans are kinda the grand champions of innovation and stubborn survival in fiction. I don't know much about Warhammer beyond the obvious, but it says something that the Imperium can still stand on its feet and sort of expand after who knows how many disasters and self sabotaging orders. Beyond that Drich doesn't know anyone trustworthy on the other planets, and most of the non Shroud tech in the Federation is Human built, and therefore steal-able. Considering the near absolute lack of morals in certain factions under not all that rare circumstances (looking at you Black Templar or whatever your name is) and I'd be paranoid as hell about my friend's tech getting taken and used. To an extent the sheer divergence should be enough to stop that because an Imperial won't know how to work the keyboard but still. For that matter, I saw somewhere else that certain aspects of the local reality warping (no pun intended) is based on the local faction's beliefs in that area of space. Maybe the unified view of "we can kill it if we shoot it enough" could pose a greater threat to otherwise sturdy tech? Mostly wild guessing there. Final idea is that if Drich hammers them too hard at the wrong time they'll either lose too much ground to defend themselves or do something desperately stupid to try and save themselves.
 
If Big E approves of what is going on, they are fine. Given that they have a primarch, there will be some serious consideration to going along with Lucys plan. Not to mention, they have intact STCs. That by itself is going to draw the mechanicus in to agree to whatever they can to get said STCs. But if Big E doesnt like it.... well, shit is going to go down.
 
I feel like I'm missing something important here... Any of you other brainy chaps or chapets got any ideas?
They're going to provoke sympathy and a desire to intervene to help them from the other humans of the fleet, which means that they can either help, and place their humans in a vulnerable position where the shroud will have to help defend them, or the shroud could try not to get involved, and alienate their friends.
 
Wasn't there some human nation that was pretty advanced, knew enough about Chaos to avoid it's corruption just by playing it smart and was then promptly destroyed by Horus? I'm pretty sure I remember something like that.

Man, Primarchs are dicks for the most part. And Emp is no better.
 
Wasn't there some human nation that was pretty advanced, knew enough about Chaos to avoid it's corruption just by playing it smart and was then promptly destroyed by Horus? I'm pretty sure I remember something like that.

Man, Primarchs are dicks for the most part. And Emp is no better.
Destroyed by Horus due to a Chaos corrupted Word Bearer stealing one of their most devastating weapons and making it look like the response to this was unprovoked violence. Chaos corrupts everything - only Drich is safe.
 
There is the fact that they bond togheter wth a alien entity as well.
It's basically similar to the process of making astartes. Implanting an "organ" that happens to consume energy and protects the soul. It dosen't even have the same amount of hypnoinduction that the space marine process involves. The squicky part of the process would probably be alien part if the cultural fear has become entrenched enough.
 
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