Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline

[Miss Teri]

A short supplemental, since this property was mentioned recently (Special thanks to AH user Time_Slip for some storylines in the comic strip that could be used as inspiration)

Flash Gordon (1979)
Directed by Sergio Leone

In 1936, Yale students Flash Gordon and Dale Arden, visiting the observatory, come across their astronomy professor, German immigrant Hans Zharkov, making observations of a distant planet, called Doitsu. He is fairly cryptic about why, aside from "the event." The next night, they see a meteor fall near the observatory. As they approach the meteor, a deranged Dr. Zharkov pops out with a pistol, threatening them. He forces them onto an experimental rocket he had been developing, and they launch into space.

Sure enough, the rocket reaches Doitsu, and Zharkov grandly reveals that the planet's trajectory was putting it on a collision course with Earth. Dale concludes that this was impossible (based on the calculations previously shown on Zharkov's board), and Flash tries to fight Zharkov to bring them back to Earth. However, this only causes the rocket to nearly crash land. Flash and Dale emerge unscathed, while Zharkov is presumed dead. As they wander the planet, they encounter large dinosaurs and primitive cavemen, before a large rocket ship arrives and soldiers capture them.

They are brought to the city of Adolvopolis, an advanced city adorned with the image of the tyrant, Supreme Emperor of Doitsu Adolf the Abominable. Sure enough, Adolf brings the two to his court. The longtime totalitarian ruler of Doitsu, he had keep the races separate, and that was key to keeping order. However, with the discovery of the planet Earth, he decides to launch a brutal conquest and "cleansing" its population of inferior blood, along with Doitsu's own races.

Flash and Dale are imprisoned in his extensive prisons, but are released by Adolf's daughter Aura, who is fascinated by the off-planeters. They escape Adolvopolis, and leave for the varying lands of Doitsu.

They wander the jungles of Doitsu, until they come across the peaceful kingdom of Tropica, ruled by Queen Desira. They recover there, but their socialist sensibilities are miffed by the regalness of the kingdom. They are soon captured by the leader of local rebels, led by Barin. They are exposed to the dark underbelly, where Desira's rule (backed by Adolph's forces) causes poverty and death across the populace. They soon hatch a plan to overthrow the Queen.

Meanwhile, Adolf is alerted to the remains of the rocket, and another survivor- Dr. Zharkov. Adolf assures a distraught Zharkov that the planets would not collide, and tricks him into thinking that he wants peace, hoping to have him remake the original rocket plan.

The plan to overthrow the Queen is foiled thanks to her security chief Captain Brazor, but our heroes are saved by the floating city of Hawkman, which is a multi-race commune ruled by a council led by Vultan, Thun, and Bulok. They are attempting to resist the rule of Adolph across the planet, and Flash, Dale, Aura, and Barin are recruited (all the while, the latter two have a burgeoning relationship).

They soon travel across the various kingdoms of Doitsu, helping inspiring the people to overthrow Adolf's respective puppet rulers. When they return to Tropica, they find Desira has been exiled to the desert, due to Brazor overthrowing him. She decides to cast aside her royal status to join the heroes in overthrowing Captain Brazor.

Adolf pressures Zharkov to accelerate the project in the wake of the mass overthrows. Zharkov overhears some of Adolf's lackeys revealing his true plans, and Zharkov is arrested.

Most of the planet under their control, Flash and the heroes go to confront Adolvopolis, but are beseiged by his forces, led by Reichskommondo Gordo. While moving across the palace, Flash finds and frees Zharkov, who feels awful about the entire affair. They reconcile, while the rebellion seems poised to fail under the weight of Gordo's assaults, and they, along with Dale and Barin break into Adolf's quarters. Adolf hopes to kill the two and display their corposes as a warning. When his personal guard manages to capture the four and poison him, his plan seems to succeed.

However, when he actually displays the corpses, the crowd storms the palace, and the forces are overwhelmed by them and the freed prisoners from Adolf's dungeons. Sure enough, it is revealed the poison pills were actually temporary epilepsy pills, and Adolf is easily overwhelmed and arrested, along with Gordo and his regime enforcers.

Doitsu is placed under the control of a ruling Soviet, with Vultan, Thun, Bulok, and Barin the inaugural members. Barin and Aura marry, and the film ends with Flash, Dale and Zharkov blasting back to Earth, though the credits said "FLASH GORDON WILL RETURN IN….. ADOLF'S RETURN!"


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Trivia:

• Adapted from Alex Raymond's comic strip of the same name, adopting numerous elements of the original "Emperor Adolf" and "Tropica" storylines
• George Lucas attempted to conceive a Flash Gordon film in the early 70's, which gradually morphed into Star Wars. Fredrico Fellini (who had contributed to the strip in the 40's) also considered the project.
• Leone was a fan of the original strip and strove to make it faithful to Raymond's look, especially in depicting the varying lands of Doitsu. He also retained the explicit anti-fascism and strong socialist streak of the strip, including making Adolf a Mussolini look-alike with a Hitler mustache.
• Special effects done by Rick Baker, Jim Danforth, and Dave Allen [1]
• Regarded as part of Leone's comic adaptation duology, with The Phantom (1982), and was praised for its faithful and entertaining story
• Sequel, Adolf's Return was made without Leone's involvement (though some of the same cast returned)

 

[lordhen]

It took me a while to go true 45 pages, but a good TL you have @Aelita, keep it up.

 

[SpookyBoy]

I made a thread for posting Photos from TTL if anyone is interested

 

[Durabys]

God damn. I wish I lived in the UASR.

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By the 2010s, the Reds!US has basically evolved into something truly alien...as in Extraterrestrial civilization type of strange. They are not a tyranny or a dictatorship...but...well...let's just say anybody from our world visiting it, and without prior warning what he or she is getting into, will have a whiplash bordering on catatonics. The closest idea would be Iain Banks' Culture series with a heavy sprinkle of Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein.

Basically. The UASR is beyond ANYTHING experienced in our own world. Unlike any other socialist or communist regime of OTL, they are their own type of genuine self-consistent utopia, emphasis on genuine because the population and its elites actually believe and enact policies based on their utopian ideas. By self-consistent I mean that its population considers it utopic or progressing in that direction but even to most in-universe people outside the red block do not see it as such. AKA: People born and raised outside the UASR, who emigree to it, will be like taking someone from the Middle Ages Europe (patriarchal, over-religious, intolerant, not recognizing the division of church and state) and Star Trek beaming them straight into OTL early 21st century Europe. It won't be a pleasant experience for the visitor, especially mentally.

 

[Nyvis]

By the 2010s, the Reds!US has basically evolved into something truly alien...as in Extraterrestrial civilization type of strange. They are not a tyranny or a dictatorship...but...well...let's just say anybody from our world visiting it, and without prior warning what he or she is getting into, will have a whiplash bordering on catatonics. The closest idea would be Iain Banks' Culture series with a heavy sprinkle of Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein.

Basically. The UASR is beyond ANYTHING experienced in our own world. Unlike any other socialist or communist regime of OTL, they are their own type of genuine self-consistent utopia, emphasis on genuine because the population and its elites actually believe and enact policies based on their utopian ideas. By self-consistent I mean that its population considers it utopic or progressing in that direction but even to most in-universe people outside the red block do not see it as such. AKA: People born and raised outside the UASR, who emigree to it, will be like taking someone from the Middle Ages Europe (patriarchal, over-religious, intolerant, not recognizing the division of church and state) and Star Trek beaming them straight into OTL early 21st century Europe. It won't be a pleasant experience for the visitor, especially mentally.

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That's a big change for those people, but not really alien? Medieval humans aren't another specie.

 

[silverpower]

The past is a foreign country (so to speak), so it follows that the future would be one, too.

I don't know that I'd characterize the UASR as utopic, just... different. Reds! me would be able to more or less cope; she's soaking in it, she understands the mindset, she's lived in it for thirty-odd years. She'd already have found her people, so to speak. It probably wouldn't be perfect in her eyes, but holy shit look at the capitalists, those people are *nuts*, they still use *money* as a unit of accounting for fuck's sake. Why would I want to leave for Capitalist Hellscape #23?

Me, if I were dropped into the Reds!verse circa 2019, I'd have a lot of trouble fitting in. I'd be basically flailing for the next half-decade to decade, because living in a decaying terminal-stage capitalist corpse of an empire isn't very good at preparing you for a mature socialist politics of everyday life, atop the whole "temporal refugee" thing. And I'm one of the people from this timeline who's most sympathetic to the UASR, who actually wants on some level to live in that kind of community, that kind of world, even if I'm not the best fit for hypercommunal living. It comes down to, well, being a displacee is *just that hard*. (Let's just say I speak from experience and leave it at that.)

I would say that the UASR likely is used to accepting refugees from the 'non-aligned'/'capitalist' blocs, and that that process of starting over is normal and expected; there's people to guide you through it, support groups, things like that. It's not like "welcome to America, here's your billet number in Metropolis commune #4906, you're required to pick three groups to attend by next week, have fun" like some seem to expect. They're hardly going to throw you into the deep end.

 

[Jane Dough]

By the 2010s, the Reds!US has basically evolved into something truly alien...as in Extraterrestrial civilization type of strange. They are not a tyranny or a dictatorship...but...well...let's just say anybody from our world visiting it, and without prior warning what he or she is getting into, will have a whiplash bordering on catatonics. The closest idea would be Iain Banks' Culture series with a heavy sprinkle of Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein.

Basically. The UASR is beyond ANYTHING experienced in our own world. Unlike any other socialist or communist regime of OTL, they are their own type of genuine self-consistent utopia, emphasis on genuine because the population and its elites actually believe and enact policies based on their utopian ideas. By self-consistent I mean that its population considers it utopic or progressing in that direction but even to most in-universe people outside the red block do not see it as such. AKA: People born and raised outside the UASR, who emigree to it, will be like taking someone from the Middle Ages Europe (patriarchal, over-religious, intolerant, not recognizing the division of church and state) and Star Trek beaming them straight into OTL early 21st century Europe. It won't be a pleasant experience for the visitor, especially mentally.

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I did clarify that I wish I had been born in the UASR.
A rather different situation.

 

[stairmaster]

Read the original on AH.com back in my more liberal days and now as an actual socialist I just want to say how glad I am you cut out that aron sorkin garbage from the opening

 

[Fourthspartan56]

Read the original on AH.com back in my more liberal days and now as an actual socialist I just want to say how glad I am you cut out that aron sorkin garbage from the opening

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Oh?

Do tell.

 

[Mal-3]

Oh?

Do tell.

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So long, long ago back in the very first iteration of this timeline, it started with a transcript from an episode of TTL's West Wing analogue (called The Central Committee or something like IIRC) that sort of set the general scene and gave a vague idea of what "now" kinda looked like. The dialogue was authentically Sorkinesque and overall it was a pretty good pastiche. I get why it was axed but tbh I kinda miss that sort of goofy low-butterfly funhouse mirror things, I dunno.

 

[Miss Teri]

TTL's West Wing analogue (called The Central Committee or something like IIRC)

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It's called "Capitol Hill" now.

 

[Aelita]

Industry After the Revolution: A Case Study​

The terms of the National Industrial Recovery Act gave the central government plenipotentiary powers to restructure the American economy. The National Recovery Commission, also known as the Scott Commission after its chairman, Howard Scott, had been given generous resource grants by the government, and had the active cooperation of Premier Foster and the heads of the many cabinet secretariats.

With this carte blanche, the Scott Commission acted zealously to "rationalise the system of industrial production through scientific management and proletarian power." The new industrial system would avoid the duplication of effort in capitalist competition, and the squandering of labor in unproductive busy work to drive sales and promote products.

On the high level, this involved the all-union government taking a direct role in the planning of both major infrastructure as well as the control of basic commodities. A system of emulation and incentives developed by Polish emigre economist Oskar Lange and others from the University of Chicago had been theorized, and was now being progressively put into practice. Using mathematical techniques such as linear algebra, the State Planning Commission guided research and development to streamline and economize production and resource use.

The Scott Commission also worked to reform and rationalize many industries, guiding mergers and liquidations with an eye to serving the needs of both the civilian and military economy. We shall focus on the reorganization of the automotive industry to serve as a case study in how the new economy was reorganized.

The automobile had played a decisive role in the Civil War. For every tank or plane that captured the world's attention in photos and news reels, there had been dozens of trucks hauling the food, fuel and munitions to keep the army moving. The infantry kept pace with rapid tank manoeuvres by riding in the back of cargo trucks or commandeered passenger cars. Makeshift armored cars had performed the reconnaissance and screening role previously occupied by the cavalry, and some hastily assembled armored trucks had protected mechanized infantry in the advance.

The automobile had major importance in the civilian economy, supplementing the trains by carrying goods in the final miles to their destinations. Passenger cars were common among the more affluent, particularly in more rural and suburban contexts. The key to agricultural productivity had been the automotive tractor, enabling American farmers to produce far more food with less labor than anywhere else in the world.

The automobile industry had been one of the hardest hit by the Depression. Dozens of small firms competed in the market, and the supply chains of the Red Army had been a bedlam caused by unreliable models, innumerable incompatible spare parts and the devilry of trade secrets.

Many of these firms existed in name only by the end of 1933. Their machine tools had been appropriated for other purposes by the workers' soviets and factory committees, particularly the manufacture of small arms and military necessities. Others had been shuttered by the soviets to free up labor for more war critical work, and concentrate trained automotive workers at the largest and most efficient firms.

In this sense, the reorganization plan crafted by the Scott Commission in the Fall of 1934 was a fait accompli.

The Ford Motor Company had been the largest and most well known of the automakers, and had the most international presence.The revolution had essentially split the company into three parts: the Canadian factories had come under the control of a reorganized Ford Motor Company following receivership proceedings, with Edsel Ford as president and largest shareholder. European assets had remained under Henry Ford's control under the Ford-Werke GmbH name.

The factories in the former United States, representing the largest share of the assets had been seized by their workers following the Putsch. During the Civil War, the company's largest and most advanced plant, the River Rouge Complex, had been converted to a tank plant under the supervision of J. Walter Christie. Thanks to the ingenuity of the plant staff and the around-the-clock effort by the workers, the plant had begun production within six-weeks, and would produce the bulk of the Red Army's tanks for the summer and fall campaigns.

This feat would earn the workers of Rouge River a collective awarding of the Order of the Red Banner of Labor in 1935. And as part of the possibly vindictive efforts of the Scott Commission, the Ford Motor Company would be transformed into the Detroit Arsenal to humiliate the already infamous Ford Sr. in his exile. Detroit Arsenal would be the primary supplier of tanks and other ground combat vehicles, controlling a growing network of assembly plants and supply chains.

As a "state defense corporation", Detroit Arsenal would be wholly owned by the all-union government. Day to day operations at plants would be administered by elected factory committees, and workers would collectively bargain their conditions, but policy would primarily be dictated by an appointed executive committee, though workers would soon earn representation on this committee.

Like all state enterprises, investment, capital goods and R&D would be paid for by appropriations from the single state budget. Accounting was open and subject to inspection by the Workers' Inspectorate, though the national security juries would censor documents to prevent the disclosure of state secrets. All products would be sold at cost.

Ford's largest rival, the giant General Motors conglomerate, would undergo its own major reorganization. Financially, it had been one of the best suited automakers to ride out the Depression, but internally the corporation was a morass of competing fiefdoms and a bewildering array of different marques catering to different market price points.

Renamed the Dynamo Collective by a vote of the workers in September 1934, most of the many smaller firms the conglomerate had accumulated would be liquidated in the change. The survivors would be reorganized to serve the needs of proletarian society.

Dynamo would be subject to regulation under the Lange system like most large firms, and the state would take a major ownership stake. But to reward dynamism and trial different management systems, most of the corporation's stake would be owned by its workers in association. Many other firms would trial similar arrangements with varying details; the unifying features were some form of democratic administration by a mix of the workers themselves and the governmental soviets.

Cadillac, the old luxury marque of General Motors, would survive the reorganization by serving as the racing and research division. Motorsports had proven to be quite popular, and the Scott Commission hoped to promote it further as a means to drive the cutting edge of automotive technology.

This had become all the more important with the liquidation of the tetraethyllead industry in early 1935. This lead compound had been introduced by General Motors researchers in the 1920s as a means of solving the engine-knock problem and allowing gasoline engines to gain power and efficiency through higher compression ratios. Engine-knock occured when the fuel/air charge would prematurely detonate during the compression stroke of the engine before it could be ignited by the spark plug. These energetic detonations were not only mistimed and thus robbed energy from the delicately timed engines, but also caused major stress to the engine components.

Tetraethyllead solved the problem of engine knock more effectively than other known compounds. Unfortunately, it is highly toxic, and the manufacture of tetraethyllead had caused numerous worker deaths in high profile incidents, and growing long-term health problems for workers at these chemical plants. The revolutionary government had managed to keep the lid on worker resentment in these plants during the war, but with the defeat of the reactionaries it could no longer be contained.

On 7 February 1935, workers at the Ethyl division of the Bayway Refinery in Metropolis shut down production in a wildcat strike. While plant managers had sent workers from the rest of the refinery to convince their comrades to return to work, this backfired. With concerns about the toxicity of the chemical and the exposure that numerous workers down the supply chain would face, the strike began to spread. By day's end, the whole refinery had shutdown.

The workers gained national attention, and after three days of consultation, Premier Foster announced a plan to phase out the production and use of leaded gasoline in all but the most critical of military applications, along with a comprehensive reform in safety in leaded gasoline supply chain safety.

Motor sports became the best tool to trial new automotive technologies and gasoline blends to improve power while resolving the issue of knock.

The "parent" of the General Motors conglomerate, Buick Motor Company, had served as GM's premium marque, priced below the luxury Cadillac but offering style and sophistication above the more economical brands. It is perhaps for this reason that the Scott Commission opted to liquidate the marque, and transfer its assets to other divisions and firms. Most of the other marques would follow soon after: old names in American automobiles like Cartercar, Marquette, Oakland, and Oldsmobile were discontinued, and their divisions reorganized.

In place of divisions based on price point to cater to capitalist luxury and conspicuous consumption, the new divisions of Dynamo would fulfill specific purposes as part of a more managed system of competition. Pontiac would serve as the passenger car divsion, while Reliance would assume control of light duty trucks. Chevrolet would produce heavy trucks, buses and their engines for civil and military purposes. The Electro-Motive Diesel would continue the conglomerate's growing rail business line. The young Caterpillar company, the last pre-revolution acquisition of GM, would build tractors and tracked vehicles for civil and military purposes. Nonetheless, these divisions would share expertise and components whenever possible to economize.

As a final part of the reorganization, the General Aviation division was nationalised, and reformed as a separate state defense corporation as North American Aviation.

The last of the "Big Three", the Chrysler Corporation, had fallen on hard times during the Depression. Already functionally insolvent by election day 1932, workers spent the winter dealing with their pay being in arrears and frequent rumors that the plants would close entirely. Thus it is no shock that when the workers' soviets began issuing the call to arms, the workers of Chrysler answered it with greatest enthusiasm.

Chrysler's owners and their creditors had already taken steps to secure their assets, hiring the Pinkerton Detective Agency to secure important assets and avoid plant occupations. The resulting fighting was bloody, and several plants were deliberately wrecked by Pinkertons with explosive demolition.

The remaining plants contributed war materiel to the Red Army. Additionally, many workers volunteered for service and took used automotive expertise to keep the army's motor pool functioning.

Because many of the upper echelons of Chrysler's engineering and technical specialists were far more embittered by the layoffs and mistreatment by the company in its decline, the great majority had stayed, influencing Scott's decision to reorganize the corporation into the Chrysler Technology Group, a state-owned research and development corporation that would advance the state of the art in automotive engineering and materials science.

The mid-sized automobile manufacturing firms scattered through the midwest would consolidated. Studebaker was perhaps the biggest winner from this process, picking up forty percent of Chrysler's manufacturing infrastructure, including the unfinished Toledo Complex, and the Plymouth and Fargo marques. Plymouth would serve as the passenger car companion line to the Studebaker light and heavy truck lines, while Fargo would provide no-frills diesel trucks and tractors for agricultural duty.

Like Dynamo, Studebaker would be reorganized as cooperative, and as a core industry the state took an ownership stake as well as provided capital investment. Studebaker would compete with Dynamo and other cooperatives in the civilian market, offering a similar range of products for personal and commercial use. The state's involvement, and the various technology groups supporting research would prevent inefficiencies caused by trade secrets and encourage the adoption of industry standards while still rewarding innovations.

The luxury Stutz Motor Company would be folded into Studebaker and reorganized into a racing and motorsport division. Like in the case of Cadillac, the liquidation of the luxury car market was not permanent. Demand for limousines re-emerged, both for official state uses as well as for the more privileged intelligentsia.

The smaller Auburn Automobile and Marmon Motors companies were similarly acquired and liquidated by Studebaker.

The struggling Packard Corporation would be divested of its failing passenger car, and rebuilt around its more successful engine, heavy truck and equipment lines. Most of the plant space and divested machine tools would be transferred to the Willys-Overland Co-operative, with passenger car operations consolidated under the Aurora Motors brand.

Others were transitioned out of the automobile industry into other areas, such as Hudson Motors' transition to a marine-diesel company as Kenosha Marine, or Brewster & Co.'s reorganization as Long Island Aeronautics.

The consolidation of the automotive industry into a small number of more specialized firms that would share technology assets in turn for state guidance of research would arrest the trend towards oligopoly. The automotive firms would still have to compete foreign imports as well as internationally for exports. The Scott Commission's reforms were largely successful in this era in both eliminating wasteful competition and extravagance as well as rent-seeking behavior. The new system did suffer from the potential problem of monopolistic competition, but automakers were disciplined by the complementary systems of public transport that were being constructed in most of America's cities.

Dynamo was not just in competition with Studebaker or Willys-Overland; it was also in stiff competition with trains, subways, trolleys and buses. The public transport systems designed in the 30s and completed during the war were very robust and largely free at the point of use. Trains provided comfort for long distance journeys. The automobile, as always, was a useful tool, but it would not be allowed to rule American transport.

 

[AKuz]

Getting rid of leaded gasoline alone is a major Thing here.

 

[Shevek23]

The automobile, as always, was a useful tool, but it would not be allowed to rule American transport.

Click to shrink...

So, a sort of compromise...they know people like cars, and Red Americans can in fact acquire cars, or use them...but a combination of market planning making them not so easy to acquire and use and what I suppose amounts to politically backed moral suasion reins in the demand and limits their volume. But on the other hand, even if the Reds had been passionately against people driving cars--and one doubts that, even Reds who think it is bad for people to have private autos would still find it something of a guilty pleasure, and as your post laid out, the Revolution owed a positive debt to automotive tech--at the same time American proficiency in automotive technology is definitely a competitive advantage that would do the world revolution no service for us to lose our competency in. So--cars yes, but not quite so damn many, and with a lot less privilege too.

After all, if automobiles had had to compete with trolleys and other railed transport on the principle that "the mode of transport that was here first takes priority" in terms of rights of way and rules of the road, etc, cars would be somewhat less convenient and riding the older systems, more so. Having to share the road with cars and without special privileges of seniority did a lot to do in light rail systems that were pretty impressive--essentially all of Los Angeles's freeway routes are in fact the old "Red Car" intercity lines for instance.

Regarding the phasing out of leaded gas...is it possible the best technical solution would be to switch over to diesel, with a strong R&D drive to make diesel engines lighter? In a way this would rob us of one of our OTL advantages during WWII--aircraft all (with a few exceptions, mostly German seaplane designs) used petrol engines, and of the highest octane each power could manage to maintain supplies of. As I understand it the oil fields of Long Beach and some other California sites were naturally remarkably high octane, or anyway especially suitable to octane raising to above 120; this ultra premium av-gas (leaded to the hilt unfortunately) was the fuel for US warplanes, and I suppose British ones too since they had fair access to our exports, especially once we joined the war effort. The US infrastructure was neatly positioned between both theaters of the war, and could route high octane av-gas to either theater as needed. So American warplanes in particular solved problems by just throwing gas-guzzling raw power at them; plenty more top quality aviation fuel where that came from for US forces! Not so for the Germans, Italians or Japanese; they all suffered a choice between using lower performance engines or risking the temperamental high octane designed high strung engines with inferior octane fuels actually available.

If by some technological handwave the American Comintern nations could have developed suitably high performance diesel by say 1940 that could take over the whole American automotive field including say airplane engines, then the knocking problem goes away with the Otto cycle.

But it may be I am misled because perhaps modern diesel engines are possible only with very modern advanced tech and a 1940 diesel must be some kind of clumsy, loud, smoky monster. Airplanes are heavily dependent on power and thus need the lightest ratio of engine weight to power output possible, which is one reason turbine engines have largely replaced piston ones by today in even light aviation, only the bottom end remaining Otto cycle piston engine powered--and I know of vigorous efforts to make an "aerodiesel" that can be substituted, in part because OTL we are finally just recently finishing the job of ending leaded gasoline, which was permitted for aircraft into the 2000s.

Realistically a diesel engine will be heavier for given wattage output--but the question is, how much so? Because they are more efficient, and flexible in fuel they can burn, and these fuels are typically denser than av-gas or any other kind of gasoline, so they store in less volume, and finally tend to be notably safer, being far less volatile. And when the turbojet era dawns, they can both use pretty much the same fuel.

So going 100 percent diesel might be the way ahead...if sufficiently light and high performance diesels are indeed possible anyway. Shame about the Long Beach petroleum not being as remarkably valuable as it would be in a high octane gasoline burning engine.

I am also not sure it is possible to refine all the fractions of raw petroleum into diesel fuel; if there is some exclusion whereby only part of a cubic meter of petroleum can become diesel, it makes more sense for the society to have both kinds of engines and balance the demand for the lighter and heavier oils so the former is not going to waste. I suspect it can all be turned into diesel fuel actually but I don't know for sure.

Meanwhile I believe other technical fixes for Otto cycle engine knocking at high compression ratios can be found, perhaps much more easily than turning the whole UASR automotive industry to standardize on diesel, without using lead or anything comparably toxic.

 

[Aelita]

As was noted in the update, the compromise exempted critical military uses from the general ban on leaded gasoline. The most obvious is avgas, of which there really is no substitute even now given the compression ratios that high performance aviation engines operate at. But you have correctly noted that diesel engines become much more attractive for many purposes.

And there are solutions, both in terms of engine design and fuel blends, that could be implemented, and many of them were already being researched for avgas. Gasoline isn't so much a single substance as it is a blend of many different hydrocarbon chemicals. Catalytic cracking technology allowed refineries to increase the percentage of "aromatic" lighter compounds being refined from crude oil, allowing higher octane-rated blends of fuel to be produced economically. Realistically, most civilian vehicles in this era wouldn't need lead additives with moderate advances in refining technology and standards, and this will be subsidized largely due to the military's demand for larger quantities of high performance fuels. Other chemical additives can be added as anti-knock agents, and there is active research into that.

 

[Shevek23]

I have to say I was also put off by the limousine thing.

Why shouldn't good Red leaders be happy to be driven about (they are indeed doing important stuff, probably getting business done while on the road, and it is probably prudent for them to have some bodyguards so one of them might as well be the driver) in a car that is solidly made, reasonably comfortable, and affordable to any citizen who decides to spend their credits on a car after a decent number of years of work? Why do they need limousines? Of course the Bolshevik leaders had them...but that's not the best example to be following.

File this in the same category as my criticism of the notion that the capital has military guards standing at stiff attention analogous to the Queen's guards at Buckingham Palace or OTL Washington Marine guards. Yes, it has a certain dignity to it, but I still think a citizen's army had better project a more "of for and by the people" image, and not deify the leadership. Their power is glorification enough, no making good soldiers of the revolution play dress up toy soldier seems called for. And no God-damned limousines either!

I just feel it is a dissonance and a potential rip in the timeline. The Worker's Party leadership should be better than this I think. Meaning they don't try to present themselves as a higher class of being.
------
Other than that I really liked this post. Kind of confusing which "makes" got assigned to what roles--a straighter carryover from OTL would make Chevrolet the standard car for standard people main maker; I certainly liked keeping Studebaker in the game.

So, did you just roll the dice on which legacy brand divisions would be assigned to what organized roles and which dismantled, or is this like your research showing that actually gay rights are not much of a big deal because people actually didn't care as much OTL in the early 20th century as the vapors they would put on later would make us think? Was Oldsmobile in fact the obvious brand to be the standard one for personal automobiles for the masses (at least with Ford melted down by Henry Ford's own reactionary antics) OTL on the verge of or during the Depression? Did Chevrolet move into that slot later OTL? If it was dice rolling (I mean, clearly some of the logic was very clear, so it clearly was not all dice rolling) is that just to reflect butterflies from this ATL diverging a generation before? Or was there some other method to it?

 

[veteranMortal]

To be fair, a limousine does have advantages; there's significantly more space in that back compartment, which would make it easier to have a bodyguard with you whilst also getting work done in?

 

[Jake]

To be fair, a limousine does have advantages; there's significantly more space in that back compartment, which would make it easier to have a bodyguard with you whilst also getting work done in?

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Further to which, if the UASR was a truly perfect utopia where ideological purity always triumphed over human foibles then this would be a very dull story. And really, as exercises in bourgoise self-indulgent privilege go, some extra leg-room and some fancy upholstery in your official car is pretty low-key and mostly harmless.

 

[Nyvis]

I just feel it is a dissonance and a potential rip in the timeline. The Worker's Party leadership should be better than this I think. Meaning they don't try to present themselves as a higher class of being.

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It's still a representative democracy, and probably with extra tiers between the voters and the high level elected officials. I doubt it's magically free of the issues a dedicated political class bring to the table. Of course, they don't have the incentives to cozy up to capital anymore, but they're still going to see themselves as more deserving of some luxury than the workers because of the power they wield and will only be held back by outrage (and recall) if they go too far. I don't think limousines would be enough to trigger that.

 

[silverpower]

Really, there's two types of limousines, as a car design. You've got vehicles like, say, the Nissan President, ZIL-111 (and successors) or Toyota Century, which are usually the high-end sedan platform with a natural stretch in the back seat area. (This is achieved on high-end German and American sedans through conversions, where the body is cut and stretched in the B-pillar area.) While a little indulgent, they're not far removed from a standard sedan - better interior, a larger (thus smoother) engine, early infotainment systems, and standard everything in eras where almost all creature comforts are an option. They're also easier to up-armor, as they have a more powerful standard engine, and relatively large body panels that are easier to insert armor and ballistic glass into.

Then you've got your stretch limousines. Those are admittedly pretty decadent, and they're not especially durable - extending the B-pillar zone from a few centimeters to 2-3 meters in the worst case tends to compromise the vehicle's structural integrity. They retain many of the advantages as security vehicles as the standard limousines do, but this only exacerbates the issues with durability and weight. (They do have more room for things like positive-pressure anti-NBC measures.) I don't think very many of those will be built, to be honest. I think the People would really start asking questions if such limousines are used for transporting just one or two people.

 

[Ithillid]

I would see the first as more common, especially if they are serving a role as a middle ground between a standard car, and an all up APC in terms of protection and carrying capacity. Better protected than a car, a lot nicer and more spacious than an APC.

 

[Aelita]

I have to say I was also put off by the limousine thing.

Why shouldn't good Red leaders be happy to be driven about (they are indeed doing important stuff, probably getting business done while on the road, and it is probably prudent for them to have some bodyguards so one of them might as well be the driver) in a car that is solidly made, reasonably comfortable, and affordable to any citizen who decides to spend their credits on a car after a decent number of years of work? Why do they need limousines? Of course the Bolshevik leaders had them...but that's not the best example to be following.

File this in the same category as my criticism of the notion that the capital has military guards standing at stiff attention analogous to the Queen's guards at Buckingham Palace or OTL Washington Marine guards. Yes, it has a certain dignity to it, but I still think a citizen's army had better project a more "of for and by the people" image, and not deify the leadership. Their power is glorification enough, no making good soldiers of the revolution play dress up toy soldier seems called for. And no God-damned limousines either!

I just feel it is a dissonance and a potential rip in the timeline. The Worker's Party leadership should be better than this I think. Meaning they don't try to present themselves as a higher class of being.
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Other than that I really liked this post. Kind of confusing which "makes" got assigned to what roles--a straighter carryover from OTL would make Chevrolet the standard car for standard people main maker; I certainly liked keeping Studebaker in the game.

So, did you just roll the dice on which legacy brand divisions would be assigned to what organized roles and which dismantled, or is this like your research showing that actually gay rights are not much of a big deal because people actually didn't care as much OTL in the early 20th century as the vapors they would put on later would make us think? Was Oldsmobile in fact the obvious brand to be the standard one for personal automobiles for the masses (at least with Ford melted down by Henry Ford's own reactionary antics) OTL on the verge of or during the Depression? Did Chevrolet move into that slot later OTL? If it was dice rolling (I mean, clearly some of the logic was very clear, so it clearly was not all dice rolling) is that just to reflect butterflies from this ATL diverging a generation before? Or was there some other method to it?

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It's really hard to police a nation of 150 million people. There's still ways to leverage social power into privileges, and while the material levelling restrains it, at a certain point even the hardline communists don't think that everything is worth stamping out. The line between necessity and luxury is blurry.

It's a mixture of research, randomness and some application of the butterfly effect. There's a preference towards standardizing around the mid-level marques to avoid connotations of cheapness, for example. But picking Chevrolet to serve as a drive-train division was ultimately just for flavor; it could have been any of them.

Cadillac and Stutz being focused on motorsports and technology was a logical way to take their existing assets, since luxury cars did sell themselves as much on power and performance as luxurious interiors, and put it to productive use. The survival of Studebaker was just a personal preference; having the Big Three remain the same would have to me seemed too parallelistic.

Chrysler's troubles are a detail invented for the TL, alluded to OTL's Chrysler Building going up under its original name during the Depression. Ford's conversion to a state defense corporation was complementary to Henry Ford's role in the timeline.

 

[kammada]

Getting rid of leaded gasoline alone is a major Thing here.

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About as big as the government not crushing the strikers as 'wreckers' and 'counter-revolutionary saboteurs', no matter the temptation.

Really, there's two types of limousines, as a car design. You've got vehicles like, say, the Nissan President, ZIL-111 (and successors) or Toyota Century, which are usually the high-end sedan platform with a natural stretch in the back seat area. (This is achieved on high-end German and American sedans through conversions, where the body is cut and stretched in the B-pillar area.) While a little indulgent, they're not far removed from a standard sedan - better interior, a larger (thus smoother) engine, early infotainment systems, and standard everything in eras where almost all creature comforts are an option. They're also easier to up-armor, as they have a more powerful standard engine, and relatively large body panels that are easier to insert armor and ballistic glass into.

Then you've got your stretch limousines. Those are admittedly pretty decadent, and they're not especially durable - extending the B-pillar zone from a few centimeters to 2-3 meters in the worst case tends to compromise the vehicle's structural integrity. They retain many of the advantages as security vehicles as the standard limousines do, but this only exacerbates the issues with durability and weight. (They do have more room for things like positive-pressure anti-NBC measures.) I don't think very many of those will be built, to be honest. I think the People would really start asking questions if such limousines are used for transporting just one or two people.

Click to shrink...

As far as I remember from my teenager days when I had more interest in these things, stretch limos weren't really a thing (except perhaps for a few hand-assembled vehicles for the show purpose) in the 1930s. Back then, the main trait of a limousine was the passenger's compartment isolated from the driver's seat. As long as the FBU doesn't become TTL's U.S. in all the habits, I wouldn't expect stretch limos to emerge in this TL at all.

 

[Durabys]

About as big as the government not crushing the strikers as 'wreckers' and 'counter-revolutionary saboteurs', no matter the temptation.

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No. It is much bigger. Ever wondered why OTL Baby Boomers look so crazy and irrational nowadays? It is not only thanks to their old age and longer lifespans when comapred to previous generations. Their brains and mental faculties are degraded thanks to inhaling leaded gasoline right up till the late 1960s.

Especially if the FBU doesn't get rid of leaded gasoline sooner.

This right there *Durabys points to the lack of ATL!Red US Leaded Gasoline* is going to be like a pebble starting an intellectual/scientific avalanche. There will be, LITERAL, mental and physiological statistical differences of minds and brains between FBU/Blue Block populations and the UASR/Red Block ones.

I will just leave this here: The nation who can best apply rationality and reason will have a boost in technology and science research, the nation who has a boost in technology and science research will dominate those who either do not have such a boon or have an outright intelligence/mental malus.

 

[Relato]

Why are you so interested in finding ways to justify people living in capitalist nations having a different brain?