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Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline

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Shunyata said:
Could be, perhaps it would more likely be that India is the final major power to accept Communism and by looking at the TTL, It seems like India might have the highest GDP in the world though I could be wrong
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OTL America has the highest GDP in the world, and its government can barely keep its people from not thinking communism is based. And not for a lack of trying.
 
Libertad said:
That's a generalization of an "average middle-class Republican voter" that is not even completely accurate, not to mention that you said that it's a MAGA Republican. It also completely writes off the average middle-class Republican voter as hopelessly indoctrinated to the Right whose views can no longer be shifted back to even standard New Deal economics, which they do believe if they are going to be asked about social and economic issues on a case to case basis. It has a tone of "basket of deplorables" to it.
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Given how Republicans kept insisting that COVID is no big deal even as they were dropping like flies from the pandemic and continue to claim that climate change is a hoax even though heatwaves in some places have gotten so extreme that people are getting second-degree burns just from falling on the pavement, I think your assessment is a tad optimistic.
 
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I am Plinio Salgado
  • Sidestory
    • "Who are you?"

    I am Plinio Salgado.



    "No, really, who are you?"

    I am the president of Brazil and its generalissimo, a president who is leading his people to ruin.

    "That's not what I asked."

    Fine.

    I was born on January 22, 1895. Does the name of my town and my state really matter? I am the son of Colonel Francisco das Chagas Salgado; a successful leader, and Ana Francisca Renno Cortez, a teacher. I was good at what I did before I got mixed up in this nonsense. I loved math. I loved geometry.

    Then my father died when I was 16.

    I loved my father very much. I should have never tried to emulate him, to surpass him. I should have become a mathematician, physicist, something normal. But no, I just had to take the loss unlike any other, and I had to get mixed up with the study of the mind: psychology and philosophy.

    As I said, I was good at what I did before I got mixed up in this nonsense.

    That was my first mistake. My second mistake was my first ever election. Partido Muncipalista? Hah! Municipal autonomy? What a joke! I married the greatest love of my life that year, and the next year she was with child, my second greatest love. However, she was very sick upon giving birth, and two weeks after, she died. Life was without meaning. Just as it does not make any sense any more. I have lost. I have led my nation to ruination, and I fear that soon, the Communist hordes will take Rio de Janeiro. They will set ablaze our homes and topple Christ the Redeemer. If I am not lucky enough to be shot in action, they will tie a noose around my neck and I will hang. If they are feeling generous that is.

    What will become of my daughter? If I am good, if I am the force of good, and if God loves me, then why has He consigned myself to such a fate; and, must the Brazilians suffer such a fate, for choosing to fear Him?

    Perhaps it is but a test, like that poor man Job.

    Time after time…

    Time after time, the world has sent me these signs. The death of my father – I did not listen. The death of my wife – I did not listen. Well, third time's the charm. I am finally listening, now that my great project has become my undoing. Undoing? You see, these signs, they are the signs that there were no signs in the first place. There is nothing more to the world. It is a cruel, evil, and most of all, a banal place. Men try and make something out of it, by praying to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Did he ever really exist? There is nothing in the world, but a sequence, a series of banal and cruel events, from one to another; and, now countless people are about to be subjugated under the yoke of Communism, to forget God, not even to worship false idols, but fear nothing.

    You know, they say the Ancient Egyptians built the pyramids of Giza for their kings, and within were countless troves to accompany, to continue serving the king even into death. In Ancient China, dozens of poor men, I say poor in spirit… but also rich in stature, cut themselves down voluntarily, to die with their king. Retainer suicide! I wonder what they would think of Timur the Merciless, who was peerless in his cruelty. For a moment in history, the pyramids of Giza were finally outdone by skulls, of once-living people; people with real lives; who did something; cut down and flayed and boiled, and piled one on top of another in a great pyramid… God cut down Babel, only to see a few millennia later in the great stead of Babel, a pyramid of skulls had replaced it.

    These people had no duty to each other, little relation if any, and now they must ascend to Heaven together.

    I found LOVE in scripture. Jesus Christ loves us all, each one of us, equally. Was it a lie?

    "And that I do," said God.

    "Imagine a forest, Salgado. Imagine, a lamb has fallen, and it cannot get up."

    "What will become of it?"

    It will die.

    Fine, as your silence beckons, it will become a rotting corpse…… and then… worms will eat the flesh, and it will be reduced to bones…. Worms will provide, as the flesh had provided. In the place of the lamb there will be a flowering of plant life, and many eons later, a tree might stand in stead of the lamb.

    I see your point.

    Yes, this is love. Death is the ultimate expression of love.

    ---

    Salgado jerked out of his bathtub, gasping for air. He coughed and coughed ferociously. Afterwards, he began to breathe heavily, and swiveled his head around. His second wife entered moments before, and had dropped her cup of wine - after all, her husband had just tried to kill himself, and then began to utter these words:

    "I have returned to the land of the living, so that I might reduce the world to love in the name of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ."
     
  • Sidestory
    • dex10awesome said:
    But what's interesting is that I think it might be a tossup if parts of grifter Breadtube (like Vaush, Adam Something, Contrapoints, etc) actually begin to support the FBU or decide to go full-heartedly with the neoliberal state department line. The FBU is arguably everything they pretty much want really, including the conservatism arguably. I think many of them would arguably become anti-communists, but whole-heartedly support the FBU as the true cause of socialism. Or they might follow the state department line and go 'well, I like the FBU's ideas, but it's clear that they have their own problems and we need to remain strong in the face of possible subversion against Washington' though of course packaged in much more 'leftist' rhetoric with many confusing segues.
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    Speculative evolution timeline with a point of divergence where the Great Dying never happened: But what about Breadtube in this universe?
     
    The perception of the FBU to a MAGA observer largely depends on what their media sources portray them as. Do not underestimate the power of mass media in shaping perceptions. And considering the media is largely beholden to its capitalist backers they would undoubtedly support the FBU against the Comintern. The media would portray even the most liberal socdem states as bastions of American capitalism, liberty and freedom to its MAGA watchers if needed.
     
    Silent Runner said:
    We're talking about an ISOT of the FBU into our world, not the fate of OTL Breadtubers in TTL.
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    Ah, I'm referring to if a Worldmerge happened between OTL and TTL, in the vein of The Dual Order, a fantastic quest that goes into more detail about the various universes, though obviously with many divergences. It has a specific form of ISOT, called Worldmerges or Gliding, in which if the same place has a similar ideology, then it can be travelled between.

    On another note, I do wonder if TTL China and OTL China would be incompatible for travel because the latter is too capitalist. It also makes me wonder if the latter would be willing to reform in order to fit into the Comintern or if it hitches its horse with the FBU or even the Western powers of OTL.

    Mashriqi said:
    The perception of the FBU to a MAGA observer largely depends on what their media sources portray them as. Do not underestimate the power of mass media in shaping perceptions. And considering the media is largely beholden to its capitalist backers they would undoubtedly support the FBU against the Comintern. The media would portray even the most liberal socdem states as bastions of American capitalism, liberty and freedom to its MAGA watchers if needed.
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    Exactly, the media landscape shapes them, but my doubt is on the idea that capitalists of OTL would allow such a thing. After all, there are no communists in our world, and they have far too many entrenched material interests in preventing such a thing and nothing to dislodge them beyond a potential revolution in OTL. I sincerely doubt that even media with centre-left pretensions will actually want such a thing, and they'd sooner change their tune about China or even Russia, because at least they are sufficiently neoliberal.

    Don't underestimate the ability of those in power to squabble over their privileges and 'rights' until they realize that their head is on the chopping block.
     
    dex10awesome said:
    On another note, I do wonder if TTL China and OTL China would be incompatible for travel because the latter is too capitalist. It also makes me wonder if the latter would be willing to reform in order to fit into the Comintern or if it hitches its horse with the FBU or even the Western powers of OTL.
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    In my opinion it would simply being a neutral arbiter, the CPC is very flexible in their foreign policy and can change their stance to fit who they are negotiating with and is willing to work with pretty much any country.

    dex10awesome said:
    Exactly, the media landscape shapes them, but my doubt is on the idea that capitalists of OTL would allow such a thing. After all, there are no communists in our world, and they have far too many entrenched material interests in preventing such a thing and nothing to dislodge them beyond a potential revolution in OTL. I sincerely doubt that even media with centre-left pretensions will actually want such a thing, and they'd sooner change their tune about China or even Russia, because at least they are sufficiently neoliberal.

    Don't underestimate the ability of those in power to squabble over their privileges and 'rights' until they realize that their head is on the chopping block.
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    I agree, the capitalist media's perception and portrayal of the FBU largely depends on the whether it is ISOT to our world or if they are ISOT to Reds! If it is the former they would likely portray it as a Venezuela and especially as a threat the US' current role as the master of the Capitalist world. If it is the latter they would definitely support the FBU in its struggle against the Comintern. The Capitalist class would likely downsize the neoliberal propaganda until the Comintern dissolves or collapses. One that occurs we will likely see a "Shock Therapy" and annihilation of social safety nets so huge and horrific in the Reds! world it would make Yeltsin look like a socialist.
     
    "So here's a couple brief, if fanciful thoughts on what the Reds!verse and OTL would think of each other if they were somehow connected via space magic shenanigans."

    "Cool, let's use this to explain why we should be mad at Youtubers I don't like!"

    ISTFG this thread can be fun but sometimes man...
     
    Mal-3 said:
    "Cool, let's use this to explain why we should be mad at Youtubers I don't like!"

    ISTFG this thread can be fun but sometimes man...
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    I understand that this may seem like bashing but it's largely trying to see what a realistic reaction from media personalities from OTL would react to FBU. dex10awesome's analysis of their reaction seems spot on to me considering Breadtube's political program.
     
    Mashriqi said:
    In my opinion it would simply being a neutral arbiter, the CPC is very flexible in their foreign policy and can change their stance to fit who they are negotiating with and is willing to work with pretty much any country.
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    Eh, I think while China is definitely far more ahead in terms of state capacity than any other country in OTL, it isn't unreasonable to think that they'd probably favor the FBU more, or possibly the Western world of OTL. I think they'd probably equivocate for a while, but it really depends on if a revolution breaks out in other places in OTL before they eventually bend to one side. I'd see them siding with the West of OTL purely for trade reasons.

    Mashriqi said:
    I agree, the capitalist media's perception and portrayal of the FBU largely depends on the whether it is ISOT to our world or if they are ISOT to Reds! If it is the former they would likely portray it as a Venezuela and especially as a threat the US' current role as the master of the Capitalist world. If it is the latter they would definitely support the FBU in its struggle against the Comintern. The Capitalist class would likely downsize the neoliberal propaganda until the Comintern dissolves or collapses. One that occurs we will likely see a "Shock Therapy" and annihilation of social safety nets so huge and horrific in the Reds! world it would make Yeltsin look like a socialist.
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    I think they'd eventually have to relent in the latter case of if they ISOT to Reds!, but I don't see it happening immediately or even quickly. The Washington line may eventually relent to them, but I legitimately think that they'd probably have severe brainworms. It's liable to take years of humiliation and disciplining that they fall in line, and even then they'd probably try to be as neoliberal as possible with it. Though of course, perhaps the FBU offers their own 'advisors' that coincidentally they have to take the advice of, otherwise they will be punished through trade.
     
    TheTiredScot said:
    Honestly Id love to see a worldmerge between OTL and reds. To see how each react to each other.
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    I feel like pretty much everyone in OTL would be jealous of Reds!, regardless of political persuasion. Everything is stronger and more developed. Nobody pulled a drag chute that said "end of history" in the 90s and destroyed state capacity to function. America is the world's hegemon and currently shambling from one self inflicted crisis to the next in a slow motion collapse. The EU is doing better, but suffering from climate change and some disunity among members.

    FBU has power America wished it had. Members of AFS are pretty well developed to real life. Then there's communists, who got an actual mega-bloc that didn't regress and collapse like the Soviets did. Sure there's the risk of nuclear war, but at least the world isn't on fire.

    It'd be amusing to see what someone from Reds! would think of OTL. From our point of view their world has an actual future, while from their's they might feel the same way about ours.
     
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    I don't know if this has ever been asked before, but has anyone in universe considered a Bering Strait Bridge and/or Tunnel? Yes, it'd be a massive megaproject, but the prospect of linking the Soviet and UASR rail networks makes my brain tingly, I'm certain it does the same for people in universe.

    As side note, how unified is the VOSCOM transportation network? Is it possible to, say, take a train from Berlin to Beijing with no or minimal switch overs?

    EDIT: Dammit, if it weren't for the Darien Gap we could have a rail line from Berlin to Buenos Fucking Aires. Now I'm thinking about how difficult it would be to build a Panama-Colombia tunnel across the Gulf of Darien...
     
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    dex10awesome said:
    I think they'd eventually have to relent in the latter case of if they ISOT to Reds!, but I don't see it happening immediately or even quickly. The Washington line may eventually relent to them, but I legitimately think that they'd probably have severe brainworms. It's liable to take years of humiliation and disciplining that they fall in line, and even then they'd probably try to be as neoliberal as possible with it. Though of course, perhaps the FBU offers their own 'advisors' that coincidentally they have to take the advice of, otherwise they will be punished through trade.
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    The idea of the US not following FBU directions which results in "restrictions" and inevitably sanctions is hilarious to me, the peak of irony and karma to state that weaponizes its currency to beat around smaller countries. Maybe they'll learn a thing or 2 from their own medicine.
     
    Balmung1 said:
    They'd also be extremly thankful that Stalin died earlier since it was his policies that made shock therapy look even remotely appealing.
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    Strange claim but Stalin's economic policies did not make Shock Therapy appealing. 1970s and 1980s Soviet economic policies varied based on who was leader but they were not as related as to Stalin as you might. And, no Shock Therapy isn't remotely appealing unless you live under Feudalism.
     
    dex10awesome said:
    Eh, I think while China is definitely far more ahead in terms of state capacity than any other country in OTL, it isn't unreasonable to think that they'd probably favor the FBU more, or possibly the Western world of OTL. I think they'd probably equivocate for a while, but it really depends on if a revolution breaks out in other places in OTL before they eventually bend to one side. I'd see them siding with the West of OTL purely for trade reasons.
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    The PRC would probably have more to gain by positioning and framing itself as a pro-3CI but neutral power. They'd be enticed by both the promise of economic aid from the outerworldly reds via COMECON as well as the vast interbloc trade networks Afghanistan, Finland and Spain are already facilitating.

    Assuming the 3CI isn't able to stage of left wing coup in Beijing the second they try to play chicken but that's just diving further into conjecture.
     
    Given the present wave of mostly one-sided escalationist rhetoric regarding China, I don't think the Americans would give China all that much of a choice in having to make a working relationship with the COMECON bloc.

    There's also the matter that the western bloc of OTL is not hugely stable as the E.U and US are increasingly at loggerheads over everything from inflation reduction to Russia policy to climate to which security commitments actually matter.

    The FBU is likely to outright try to fission the western bloc and steal the EU away from the US, regarding the USA as essentially a rogue state with such dilapidated state capacity and a foreign policy so built around its own predominance in its system that working with it would not work out in the longterm.

    Especially since the FBU still maintains a sort of Bretton-Woods analogue with the Dover system, plus many suggestions made by Keynes regarding an obligation to contribute to developmental funds for debtors, which is deeply incompatible with modern finance and would regard any attempt to introduce a nixon shock style deregulation as a direct threat to its system of control.

    The modern USA and the FBU are capitalistic world hegemons and generally those don't really get along very well with one another when they propose irreconcilable systems. Things like the modern financial system or Bretton-Woods kind of have to be hegemonic in their spheres or else it doesn't work.

    So it'd probably be a three way ersatz The Red Order style cold war following Euro-NATO's subsumption into the AFS and the US reacting to having its European sphere of influence stolen out from under it about as well as you'd expect.

    Well, "cold war", probably more like "the FBU and UASR continue their great game against each other with a new playing board while the USA shrieks impotently with a fleet of rusting ships and a government where nothing works"

    Especially since America's options for allies in event of a fission in NATO are a bunch of nonentities, strictly in Asia, or countries with already terrible relations with the US like Russia and Iran.
     
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    Raiho-kun said:
    The PRC would probably have more to gain by positioning and framing itself as a pro-3CI but neutral power. They'd be enticed by both the promise of economic aid from the outerworldly reds via COMECON as well as the vast interbloc trade networks Afghanistan, Finland and Spain are already facilitating.

    Assuming the 3CI isn't able to stage of left wing coup in Beijing the second they try to play chicken but that's just diving further into conjecture.
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    I agree. They'd likely try to thread that needle by keeping the AFS and Voscom at arms length, while getting closer with neutral powers and non-FBU members of AFS. Given how China is currently trying to build up its own network of international institutions independent from American capital, they'd probably try to keep their growing influence in the Global South going forward. They'd probably see where the wind was blowing and align with Voscom.

    There'd be no love for the FBU, especially when its official stance on the Century of Humiliation "we should have fucked China over harder when we had a chance" they're not going to find a lot of friends in Beijing. I doubt a lot of countries would care for the AFS or FBU, honestly when it's still got two thirds of Africa in chains.
     
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