Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline

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Miss Teri

Aelita

I have been reading and loving this timeline so much and thank you so much for writing this.

Only thing I was disappointed upon was that India was not a Socialist Nation itself, but from what It seems it looks more like a Doylist reason in order to make sure FBU has a fighting chance. Could it be fair to say that the final confrontation before either world wide communism or destruction be between UASR and India ?
Potentially yes.

Also as a bit of lore for you to mull over, Bose and his supporters do launch a civil war in India almost immediately after WW2 ends that ultimately ends in them having to retreat into China, forming the Sichuan Indian community.
 
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Potentially yes.

Also as a bit of lore for you to mull over, Bose and his supporters do launch a civil war in India almost immediately after WW2 ends that ultimately ends in them having to retreat into China, forming the Sichuan Indian community.
Kind of sad but understandable in this regard. Wondering what type of fusion of culture and cuisine takes place in Sichuan.

Still though thinking that a final confrontation between the Capitalist powers and Socialist Powers is essentially between ATL Version of USA and India is both funny but also truely lives up to the spirit of an Alternate History that actually makes sense
 
Dirigisme from a certain perspective is technically a practice of "state capitalism" already. As what's already mentioned before, you put the Franco-British Union, the premier capitalist superpower of Reds!, in OTL 2023 and it's going to be considered to the left of the People's Republic of China, Yugoslavia, the Nordic social democracies and the Soviet Union by many people in this world right now.

It's a heavily-planned state corporatist system and trying to do its best to satisfy the labor bloc and the capitalist bloc. A more real "state being a mostly-neutral arbitrer of social conflict" than being a more usual or classical dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
It would be real fun to see an encounter between an OTL MAGA Republican and a TTL People's Alliance voter. The MAGA guy would no doubt call the FBU a godless communist hellhole, much to the confusion and indignation of the FBU citizen.
 
It would be real fun to see an encounter between an OTL MAGA Republican and a TTL People's Alliance voter. The MAGA guy would no doubt call the FBU a godless communist hellhole, much to the confusion and indignation of the FBU citizen.

An OTL MAGA Republican will call the FBU whatever the conservative media ecosystem will decide to call the FBU and I doubt that "a godless communist hellhole" is going to be the word that's going to be used. I don't think the current wealthy interests behind Anglo-American conservative media in our world today is going to be interested in alienating Reds! premier capitalist superpower with more than 200 million people that has peak Scandinavian living standards, advanced science and technology, territories and military bases throughout the globe, an international reserve currency and a nuclear arsenal that far surpasses the United States of America.

Many people, Democrat and Republican alike, will see the FBU as what they think U.S. capitalism should be from different angles.

The People's Alliance is also in itself a big-tent center-right ruling party with traditionalist conservatives and rabid Cold War anti-communists inside it. The political, social and cultural establishment of the country is also going to be institutionally Tory conservative, far more conservative than the current British and French versions IOTL.

While Islam and gays/lesbians are going to be less discriminated against than OTL United States due to the different cultural contours as to "what is Europe" and the state-sponsored multiculturalism, there may be people OTL like the Tucker Carlson types that may even consider the FBU as a turbocharged version of what they imagine countries like Hungary/Russia are IOTL.

Sexual minorities, for example, are still going to be heavily repressed. The Metropolitan FBU also has an "internal colony" full of considered fifth-columnists through Franco-British Algeria. There is also a heavily subsidized set of programs aimed to keep the structure of the nuclear family unit intact with all of its patriarchal attributes. There are "drug wars" and "war on crime" campaigns and a large prison population.

The state capitalist economics of the FBU is going to be secondary to all of this, especially in our current period where neoliberalism is not even truly popular anymore.

It's also not a very good description to use especially when you have a literal "godless communist hellhole" on the other side of the Atlantic and on the other side of the Continent (UASR/USSR).
 
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That being said, the random guy from the FBU will look at the way our world is OTL & probably think "Maybe the communists are onto something".
 
You act like that's gonna matter to your average middle-class Republican voter who has been conditioned to see anything to the left of Augusto Pinochet as COMMUNISM.

That's a generalization of an "average middle-class Republican voter" that is not even completely accurate, not to mention that you said that it's a MAGA Republican. It also completely writes off the average middle-class Republican voter as hopelessly indoctrinated to the Right whose views can no longer be shifted back to even standard New Deal economics, which they do believe if they are going to be asked about social and economic issues on a case to case basis. It has a tone of "basket of deplorables" to it.

You also underestimate other factors here beyond the narrow lens of ideology on paper, which are the material conditions of both timelines if they suddenly found each other, not to mention the class interests of the ruling class from both timelines that are going to mostly match with each other anyway.

So, conservative media is going to tell to its audience a very different tone compared to what you are imagining.
 
That's a generalization of an "average middle-class Republican voter" that is not even completely accurate, not to mention that you said that it's a MAGA Republican. It also completely writes off the average middle-class Republican voter as hopelessly indoctrinated to the Right whose views can no longer be shifted back to even standard New Deal economics, which they do believe if they are going to be asked about social and economic issues on a case to case basis. It has a tone of "basket of deplorables" to it.

You also underestimate other factors here beyond the narrow lens of ideology on paper, which are the material conditions of both timelines if they suddenly found each other, not to mention the class interests of the ruling class from both timelines that are going to mostly match with each other anyway.

So, conservative media is going to tell to its audience a very different tone compared to what you are imagining.
I'm gonna be honest it kind of amazes me that there hasn't been much discussion of what would happen in a Reds! + OTL 2023 worldmerge (very silly things, one presumes 😛)
 
I know I say this a lot but how someone from this timeline (of any ideological persuasion) would view OTL and vice versa really heavily depends on the circumstances they are interacting with all or part of this timeline. Like I'm sure if there any MAGA Republicans reading this timeline, they probably see the FBU as the heroic last stand of civilization against the godless communist hordes - whereas if, for example, the FBU was ISOTed into our world (particularly if the AFS was brought along for the ride), I can very easily imagine the US and FBU becoming geopolitical adversaries* and that feeding through into how the Entente is percieved by the public and presented in the media. On the flipside, if the OTL US ended up in the Reds verse, while it would significantly shift the balance of power away from the Comintern, more than half the world's population would still be in a bloc opposed to a pair of aggressively capitalist states and the two would probably align with eachother however reluctantly.

It's been alluded to before by people looking backward across their historical epoch already, but the main difference in attitudes about atomic war and escalation is that owing to their never being a meaningful nuclear monopoly, the first use of atomic weapons being tactical rather than strategic, and neither side developing doctrines of mutually assured destruction, strategic thinking is much more cautious and in the same mold as 19th and early 20th century notions of balance of power.

The use of strategic nuclear weapons will never be anyone's first, second, third or even fourth resort. Thinking follows something akin to Herman Kahn's escalation ladder.

The use of tactical nuclear weapons in undeclared wars and limited conflicts, typically defined by the participation of forces under the legal guise of international police actions by the Peacekeeping Force or the International Volunteer Army, is just another level of escalation.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not sure that is the impression I've gotten from the updates** so far but we're still in the world war period, so all good.

Poland being made part of the USSR is a side-effect of two things: 1) its demographics being utterly fucked by The War, 2) a lack of domestic communist movement.

We're considering just having Romania be independent, but with an EXTREMELY long occupation beforehand to de-Legionize the country

This might already have been planned but it would be interesting to get an update on wartime Poland and Romania.

*A major flash point is economic policy. Given the economic warfare that the Comintern has engaged in against the FBU, its likely that the AFS is much more aggressively protectionist than the current American establishment would be willing to tolerate.

**Or rather, the period that the Cold War we have been shown so far seems to resemble (in my opinion) is 1905-1914 with the FBU seeming to be stuck in the position of both Russia (increasingly dangerous internal situation) and Germany (deteroiating international situation) - which why I'm sceptical that the escalatory periods wouldn't spiral out of control.
 
Kind of sad but understandable in this regard. Wondering what type of fusion of culture and cuisine takes place in Sichuan.

Still though thinking that a final confrontation between the Capitalist powers and Socialist Powers is essentially between ATL Version of USA and India is both funny but also truely lives up to the spirit of an Alternate History that actually makes sense
In the late 60's there's also the "Red Summer", of increasing strikes and leftist rebellions.
 
Unrelated random question: does the FBU have a national personification like Marianne/Britannia? You'd think if nothing else the Normanists would try to push one but I can't remember if it's ever come up 🤔
 
Unrelated random question: does the FBU have a national personification like Marianne/Britannia? You'd think if nothing else the Normanists would try to push one but I can't remember if it's ever come up 🤔
I haven't decided, but I often lean towards Arthur since he was purported to rule both France and Britain.
 
You're discussing the horrors of neoliberalism while ignoring the real issue:


the evil has not been defeated. :p

though honestly, the FCR undermined Las Vegas' vice city, as the economic incentives for gambling legalization are gone and the new cultural norms remove any appeals to workers.

Science city? Specializing in what exactly, human hubris?

Speaking of hubris, what about Phoenix? In OTL it became a major industrial center during WW2 and with the war greatly focusing on the Pacific for the UASR, it could still be albeit under different circumstances.
 
though honestly, the FCR undermined Las Vegas' vice city, as the economic incentives for gambling legalization are gone and the new cultural norms remove any appeals to workers.

Science city? Specializing in what exactly, human hubris?
It's basically the TTL Silicon Valley.
 
An OTL MAGA Republican will call the FBU whatever the conservative media ecosystem will decide to call the FBU and I doubt that "a godless communist hellhole" is going to be the word that's going to be used. I don't think the current wealthy interests behind Anglo-American conservative media in our world today is going to be interested in alienating Reds! premier capitalist superpower with more than 200 million people that has peak Scandinavian living standards, advanced science and technology, territories and military bases throughout the globe, an international reserve currency and a nuclear arsenal that far surpasses the United States of America.

Many people, Democrat and Republican alike, will see the FBU as what they think U.S. capitalism should be from different angles.

The People's Alliance is also in itself a big-tent center-right ruling party with traditionalist conservatives and rabid Cold War anti-communists inside it. The political, social and cultural establishment of the country is also going to be institutionally Tory conservative, far more conservative than the current British and French versions IOTL.

While Islam and gays/lesbians are going to be less discriminated against than OTL United States due to the different cultural contours as to "what is Europe" and the state-sponsored multiculturalism, there may be people OTL like the Tucker Carlson types that may even consider the FBU as a turbocharged version of what they imagine countries like Hungary/Russia are IOTL.

Sexual minorities, for example, are still going to be heavily repressed. The Metropolitan FBU also has an "internal colony" full of considered fifth-columnists through Franco-British Algeria. There is also a heavily subsidized set of programs aimed to keep the structure of the nuclear family unit intact with all of its patriarchal attributes. There are "drug wars" and "war on crime" campaigns and a large prison population.

The state capitalist economics of the FBU is going to be secondary to all of this, especially in our current period where neoliberalism is not even truly popular anymore.

It's also not a very good description to use especially when you have a literal "godless communist hellhole" on the other side of the Atlantic and on the other side of the Continent (UASR/USSR).
That's a generalization of an "average middle-class Republican voter" that is not even completely accurate, not to mention that you said that it's a MAGA Republican. It also completely writes off the average middle-class Republican voter as hopelessly indoctrinated to the Right whose views can no longer be shifted back to even standard New Deal economics, which they do believe if they are going to be asked about social and economic issues on a case to case basis. It has a tone of "basket of deplorables" to it.

You also underestimate other factors here beyond the narrow lens of ideology on paper, which are the material conditions of both timelines if they suddenly found each other, not to mention the class interests of the ruling class from both timelines that are going to mostly match with each other anyway.

So, conservative media is going to tell to its audience a very different tone compared to what you are imagining.
Eh, I disagree, not in the sense that they are hopelessly indoctrinated, but the reality that even if they are the premier world power, until the FBU can properly subvert and get this capitalist world into their sphere, which might not necessarily be possible given how the bourgeois are very attached to their 'rights' to massive profits, at least until the first nation to go Reds!Communist exists, then it's a tossup between further neoliberalism or relenting to the FBU line.

You have to remember that OTL is one without any actual counter-force, and while the TTL would act as one (a big one), it would be relatively distant until they manifested in our reality in an actual revolution. The FBU would obviously be a bit more forward-thinking, but I don't think that's enough to disturb the rotting ecology of privatization, political lobbying, consent manufacturing and such. Liberty as a party in the FBU might be discredited, but on the other hand, it might be bolstered as the thing that could 'win the war' if the right grifters got a hold of it, though I see that there's probably a large contingent of people who are smart enough to realize that's stupid.

I think that the right-wing forces in the media from OTL would still be very much opposed to the FBU, and would continue to be until the FBU!MI5 or something replaces the owners with people more willing to deal with them. And that still doesn't stop the social media landscape of right-wing grifters, if anything it may bolster it, though maybe some would naturally fall into the FBU's camp but given who they are funded by, I doubt it. Even the relatively 'centre-left' media would almost certainly still oppose the FBU as they benefit just as much from the current arrangement. Neoliberalism might not be popular amongst the proles, but for now they don't have any actual power.

But what's interesting is that I think it might be a tossup if parts of grifter Breadtube (like Vaush, Adam Something, Contrapoints, etc) actually begin to support the FBU or decide to go full-heartedly with the neoliberal state department line. The FBU is arguably everything they pretty much want really, including the conservatism arguably. I think many of them would arguably become anti-communists, but whole-heartedly support the FBU as the true cause of socialism. Or they might follow the state department line and go 'well, I like the FBU's ideas, but it's clear that they have their own problems and we need to remain strong in the face of possible subversion against Washington' though of course packaged in much more 'leftist' rhetoric with many confusing segues.

I think the context for the FBU you have written is actually really fascinating so I do hope to see more stuff from you and I'm interested to see more from TTL on the FBU and the capitalist bloc!
 
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