Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline

[Night_stalker]

There's also the fact that with America fully committed to arming and supporting the USSR, Germany cannot afford the time to conquer France. (Let's remember, basically nobody in OTL thought France would fall in six weeks - the German high command thought it would take at least two years.) In 1940, there is still at least some grounds to believe Germany can win against the USSR - the German economy is larger than the Soviet one and the American revolutionary government that has only been in power for seven years* - whereas by 1942, the Soviet economy and army will have both improved and every year entrenches communist America. Of course Britain and France will get stronger as well but as long as they are nothing worse than hostile neutrals (which doesn't prove very difficult until at least the latter half of 1941), they can be invoiced for Versailles at a latter date.

Plus while it is run more efficiently than in OTL, the same political and economic dynamics which led to the Nazi economy being so self-destructive are still in play with the only real options to prevent economic breakdown being to lean ever more on the British and French or to plunder eastern Europe.

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Don't forget, they also assume it'll be easy to kick in the door and the whole rotting set of edifices would come down.

Add in the fact that the German military remembers how the last war went, and they're gonna avoid repeating it.

Makes logical sense to me. Especially since France/Britain are funding them, so no sense turning off the tap without a replacement lined up.

 

[IlluminatusP]

Is there a reason why Nazi Germany went after the Soviets in 1940 instead of France?

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The Germans have no blockade and have international trade & financial partners — there is no need to take out France. They believe they have the West's backing for an anti-Bolshevik crusade in the East.

There might even be relatively significant French & British volunteers in the Wehrmacht for the campaign.

You're not wrong, but IMO modern social and economic forces have basically shunted everyone who isn't a rentier or comprador into his definition and made it retroactively larger and more real than he could've ever imagined.

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The proletariat is the whole social class dependent on the wage-fund, that is, employed [ and conjecturally unemployed, but otherwise ] listed as man-hour cost-expensing across the aggregation of financial statements of all employers + the youth & old-age benefit annuities funded off the same [ we are extremely explicit about this in the US with SS & Medicare/Medicaid being paid by payroll taxation in distinction from income as such, capital gains, & estate taxation ]

 

[Mazeka]

Might want to merge those two posts IlluminatusP.

 

[Traveller76]

Hi, I've been steadily making my way through this timeline lately and I've been real invested. The mundane parts of life under a system such as this are so rarely explored, and it's just so fun how the things we know are different in those ways.

One thing I've noticed is that Liberation Theology, or at least the modern version of it, emerges way sooner than it does in OTL. I take it this was primarily spurred on by the upheaval of the 30's?

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Actually I when I wrote about it started around the 1900s when many Catholic priests started assisting their communities with demanding better housing, worker safety and so on. They petitioned the Cardinals and Rome about this and were told to take care of the spiritual health of the parish and render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's. By the time of the Revolution there was a group of 'Red' Churches (Protestant and Catholic) alongside other faiths that ran underground railroads, soup kitchens and were community centers.

 

[IlluminatusP]

Might want to merge those two posts IlluminatusP.

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You are probably right.

Curious if Norman Finkelstein emerges ITTL. I know that Noam Chomsky is a figure in (??) the split from WCP-Liberation that ended up forming the Social Ecology Union.

Obviously his topic of choice is obviated by the fact Palestine become a plurinational socialist state, presumably with a universal refugee settlement character rather than a deformed-purportedly Jewish-diasporic-particularist one.

 

[Miss XTC]

You are probably right.

Curious if Norman Finkelstein emerges ITTL. I know that Noam Chomsky is a figure in (??) the split from WCP-Liberation that ended up forming the Social Ecology Union.

Obviously his topic of choice is obviated by the fact Palestine become a plurinational socialist state, presumably with a universal refugee settlement character rather than a deformed-purportedly Jewish-diasporic-particularist one.

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Norman Finkelstein as Palestinian Premier?

 

[IlluminatusP]

When you get to a delegation size of above roughly two thousand you get to the point where the delegation's members don't really know each other and find it increasingly hard to work as a unit and proceedings take increasingly long; especially in an era before electronic assistance where files have to be passed out to read, messages are passed at most by telephone or radio, and the only way of showing a lot of people the same image without making a lot of copies of it is to project it. So you can't just make a legislative body bigger without limit. It's a noted effect in political science studies where extremely large legislative bodies tend to pass on a lot of their duties to smaller ones because getting them all in one place to do their thing and just going through a single session is such a hassle.

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I agree emphatically here.

Also, @Zimmerwald1915 it is good to see you again.

 

[Arthur Frayn]

Found a clone of the late, great Pimp My Gun and bashed this together as a possible service weapon for VOSCOM/INTREV/REVCOM sometime circa maybe the 1980's. IIRC REVCOM ends up sticking with the Garand-style action, leading to basically a militarized Mini-14 firing 5.56 becoming standard.

Since PMG didn't include the Mini-14, but it does include the M-14, I used that as a baseline. I swapped out the mag for a STANAG 30 round, gave it an AR-15 style pistol grip hand guard (M-14 top, M16A2 style rail covers), and the stock and flash hider from the AK-74 (for little allohistorical fun).



Using an M-14 as the base probably threw off the scaling, but I didn't feel like doing the work of rebuilding the action piece by piece to fit a properly scaled body lol

 

[Libertad]

You are probably right.

Curious if Norman Finkelstein emerges ITTL. I know that Noam Chomsky is a figure in (??) the split from WCP-Liberation that ended up forming the Social Ecology Union.

Obviously his topic of choice is obviated by the fact Palestine become a plurinational socialist state, presumably with a universal refugee settlement character rather than a deformed-purportedly Jewish-diasporic-particularist one.

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Finkelstein could be anything since his mom is an ardent pacifist and he was also a former Maoist in our timeline.

As for the Social Ecology Union, it was born indirectly out of one of the splinter groups from the Liberation Communist Party, at least according to the current canon. Though I'm having a few thoughts of what could be potential changes in the lore for the political parties, but that's for another time and place, it's not that important.

 

[Oleympia]

The South American Theatre: A Tango with Death

Window of Victory

Excerpt from John Hercain, The World Revolutionary War: The Grapple (Chicago: Vanguard Press, 2002)

…Brazil, for all its supposed success and progress that Salgado claimed that the Brazilian Army had made in its war against "the Bolshevik heathens", is often seen by historians as the weakest of the Axis Powers. While many attribute this to the Integralist regime's quick and early collapse during the war, the considerably different circumstances of 1942 in South America compared to their European and Mediterranean allies play a role in this.

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Y'know, I get that the composition of Pan-America and Brazilian leadership of the South American fascist bloc is long-established lore that's not going to change, I do wonder if it might have been better from the standpoint of making the Second World War feel like an existential struggle against fascism to have either Columbia or Argentina go fascist (or at least Axis-aligned) alongside Brazil and form either a Rio-Bogota or Rio-Buenos Aires Axis against red influence on the continent. Both had plenty of fascist-sympathizing political elites and large German/Italian communities with links to the European Axis. Argentina would've had more reason to turn on the UK given the whole Falklands issue, and could have contributed more to the war effort as one of the traditional big three powers in South America, but Colombia would have the potential to threaten the Panama Canal (and would be a good excuse for Venezuela and Ecuador, who had much smaller populations and obviously would've been tempting targets for Gran Colombian revanchism, to join the Comintern/Allies respectively), with their strategic position making a hypothetical right-wing regime in the country a tempting target for the anti-communist powers to try and economically support before the war in order to put pressure on the reds' continued control of the canal. At the same time, it would definitely not take the loss of UASR (and eventually European) trade well. In any case, either could make for an interesting in-timeline PoD.

 

[TGUT]

Y'know, I get that the composition of Pan-America and Brazilian leadership of the South American fascist bloc is long-established lore that's not going to change, I do wonder if it might have been better from the standpoint of making the Second World War feel like an existential struggle against fascism to have either Columbia or Argentina go fascist (or at least Axis-aligned) alongside Brazil and form either a Rio-Bogota or Rio-Buenos Aires Axis against red influence on the continent. Both had plenty of fascist-sympathizing political elites and large German/Italian communities with links to the European Axis. Argentina would've had more reason to turn on the UK given the whole Falklands issue, and could have contributed more to the war effort as one of the traditional big three powers in South America, but Colombia would have the potential to threaten the Panama Canal (and would be a good excuse for Venezuela and Ecuador, who had much smaller populations and obviously would've been tempting targets for Gran Colombian revanchism, to join the Comintern/Allies respectively), with their strategic position making a hypothetical right-wing regime in the country a tempting target for the anti-communist powers to try and economically support before the war in order to put pressure on the reds' continued control of the canal. At the same time, it would definitely not take the loss of UASR (and eventually European) trade well. In any case, either could make for an interesting in-timeline PoD.

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If I recall correctly at one point, the South American theatre was much more like the all consuming All War that you're describing with Venezuela joining the Axis alongside Brazil and Bolivia. Argentina was always a member of the Comintern though (I think in part because its so often depicted as Naziland in alternate history or at least memed as such). TBH I like this version more as it recognises that fundamentally, not even the greatest power in South America (Brazil) can prosecute a European style great war in the 1940s. Its a war fought with (some) WW2 era technology but with the tactics of some nightmare combination of the western front and Stalingrad and the logistics of the Chinese theatre of OTL WW2.

 

[Arthur Frayn]

Found a clone of the late, great Pimp My Gun and bashed this together as a possible service weapon for VOSCOM/INTREV/REVCOM sometime circa maybe the 1980's. IIRC REVCOM ends up sticking with the Garand-style action, leading to basically a militarized Mini-14 firing 5.56 becoming standard.

Since PMG didn't include the Mini-14, but it does include the M-14, I used that as a baseline. I swapped out the mag for a STANAG 30 round, gave it an AR-15 style pistol grip hand guard (M-14 top, M16A2 style rail covers), and the stock and flash hider from the AK-74 (for little allohistorical fun).



Using an M-14 as the base probably threw off the scaling, but I didn't feel like doing the work of rebuilding the action piece by piece to fit a properly scaled body lol

Click to shrink...

Played around a bit with the scaling and got this, magazine might be slightly oversized but I think this is a lot more reasonable looking. Lower receiver doesn't quite blend with the upper but I didn't feel like photoshopping it to match lol. Might work up a carbine or DMR versions, or a further evolution of the design (depending on how much I want to goose a Flash emulator lol).

 

[MetalGearZeta]

Played around a bit with the scaling and got this, magazine might be slightly oversized but I think this is a lot more reasonable looking. Lower receiver doesn't quite blend with the upper but I didn't feel like photoshopping it to match lol. Might work up a carbine or DMR versions, or a further evolution of the design (depending on how much I want to goose a Flash emulator lol).

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Suddenly im ok with the AK-47 never existing because this is beautiful

 

[Arthur Frayn]

Played around a bit with the scaling and got this, magazine might be slightly oversized but I think this is a lot more reasonable looking. Lower receiver doesn't quite blend with the upper but I didn't feel like photoshopping it to match lol. Might work up a carbine or DMR versions, or a further evolution of the design (depending on how much I want to goose a Flash emulator lol).

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Suddenly im ok with the AK-47 never existing because this is beautiful

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Okay last revision I promise, after some tweaking and polishing I give you the M-47A2, the Long Arm of the Free World. While the design has been refined and updated over the years, the basic action is identical to the basic gas blowback operated machine carbine first developed in 1947. Tracing its lineage all the way to the venerable M1 Garand, the M-47 has proven a reliable long arm for decades. Due to it's widespread adoption by VOSCOM forces, and its near ubiquity amongst leftist revolutionary groups across the world, the M-47 has been dubbed the "long arm of the free world", with its iconic design even figuring into the heraldry of some far-left groups.



Absolutely just winged it on the details lol, but this is what I imagine is in the hands of every VOSCOM soldier from the Kola Peninsula to Tierra del Fuego, and every insurgency making life hell for the FBU around the world.

It's basically an M-14 action/upper section, with a lower receiver adapted from the the G36 and the Remington AK-Compatible ACR. The magazine is NATO STANAG firing a 5.56 mm round, while the stock is taken from the M16A1 and the flash hider from the AK-74. I named it the M-47 as an obvious nod to the venerable AK - while the M-14 and subsequent Mini-14, not to mention the FAL (its closest OTL counterparts) entered service in the 50's, it was too easy an allo-historical allusion to pass up.

I just hand wave it via the collaboration between the UASR and the USSR accelerating development, and IIRC the Garand itself ITTL basically becomes a proto-M-14 by war's end (i.e. magazine fed select fire, possibly with a pistol grip, which I imagine looks something like this or this without the bipod), so it's not a stretch IMO to have it arrive a little early.

*EDIT* For fun, here's the requisite tacticool doorkicker shooterman edition:

 

[Jake]

I just hand wave it via the collaboration between the UASR and the USSR accelerating development, and IIRC the Garand itself ITTL basically becomes a proto-M-14 by war's end (i.e. magazine fed select fire, possibly with a pistol grip, which I imagine looks something like this or this without the bipod), so it's not a stretch IMO to have it arrive a little early.

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And probably hastening the adoption of the intermediate cartridge, because adding a fire-selector to a rifle using substantially the same action and cartridge as the Garand ended up not working very well IOTL.

 

[MetalGearZeta]

Okay last revision I promise, after some tweaking and polishing I give you the M-47A2, the Long Arm of the Free World. While the design has been refined and updated over the years, the basic action is identical to the basic gas blowback operated machine carbine first developed in 1947. Tracing its lineage all the way to the venerable M1 Garand, the M-47 has proven a reliable long arm for decades. Due to it's widespread adoption by VOSCOM forces, and its near ubiquity amongst leftist revolutionary groups across the world, the M-47 has been dubbed the "long arm of the free world", with its iconic design even figuring into the heraldry of some far-left groups.



Absolutely just winged it on the details lol, but this is what I imagine is in the hands of every VOSCOM soldier from the Kola Peninsula to Tierra del Fuego, and every insurgency making life hell for the FBU around the world.

It's basically an M-14 action/upper section, with a lower receiver adapted from the AK-compatible Remington ACR. The magazine is NATO STANAG firing a 5.56 mm round, while the stock and flash hider are taken from the AK-74. I named it the M-47 as an obvious nod to the venerable AK - while the M-14 and subsequent Mini-14, not to mention the FAL (its closest OTL counterparts) entered service in the 50's, it was too easy an allo-historical allusion to pass up.

I just hand wave it via the collaboration between the UASR and the USSR accelerating development, and IIRC the Garand itself ITTL basically becomes a proto-M-14 by war's end (i.e. magazine fed select fire, possibly with a pistol grip, which I imagine looks something like this or this without the bipod), so it's not a stretch IMO to have it arrive a little early.

*EDIT* For fun, here's the requisite tacticool doorkicker shooterman edition:

Click to shrink...

Not sure if I care so much for the tacticool version but I absoultely adore the baseline M-47. Would it be too much to ask maybe for a version with a Wood Handguard and But just to compare? There was a seemingly wooden handguard in one of the earlier designs

 

[Arthur Frayn]

Not sure if I care so much for the tacticool version but I absoultely adore the baseline M-47. Would it be too much to ask maybe for a version with a Wood Handguard and But just to compare? There was a seemingly wooden handguard in one of the earlier designs

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Ask and ye shall receive:


For fun let's say this is the OG M-47, complete with simplified action and wooden stock (AK-47 and a repainted M-16), wood furniture (courtesy of the SVD), and FAL-style carry handle (not sure if it makes sense for an intermediate cartridge to have one, but it's a fun old school detail so fuck it). The A2 is the modern rifle you'd find in VOSCOM troops, but this is the gun that's winning the war on capitalism.

*EDIT* Cleaned up the design a bit and gave it a proper carry handle and some retouched furniture, still basically an AK lower bolted onto an M-14 upper.

 

[Mal-3]

*EDIT* For fun, here's the requisite tacticool doorkicker shooterman edition:

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Insufficient redundant gizmos and toys attached to be a properly tacticool shootybangbang stick. 3/10 please see me after class.

 

[Scrivener]

I can't bring myself to like the cursed Mini-14, I'm sowwy 😭 (seriously though, please switch to Stoner's design in the future, mounting sights onto a rifle that doesn't have a monolithic upper is gonna be hell)

 

[Miss Teri]

Notable universities in the UASR (as of 2024)

The University of America system
The system of formerly elite Northeastern "Ivy" colleges[1], along with the "Seven Sisters" colleges and universities in Baltimore and DeLeon-Debs, DC.

The original University of America universities:

• Harvard (merged with Radcliffe in 1940)
• Yale
• Dartmouth
• Cornell
• Brown
• Princeton
• Mount Holyoke
• Smith
• Wellesley
• Vassar

Massachusetts Tech (formerly the Massachusetts Institute of Technology)

Philadelphia (formerly the University of Pennsylvania, Bryn Mawr and Pennsylvania State University)

Baltimore (formerly Johns Hopkins and the University of Maryland, Baltimore)

New York City (formerly Columbia, New York University, Brooklyn College, City College of New York, Fordham, The New School, and Barnard College)

Debs (formerly Georgetown University, American University, George Washington University, Howard University, and Benjamin Franklin University)

Montreal (formerly McGill University, ETS, and the University of Montreal)

Toronto (Formerly York University and The University of Toronto)

Political Training ("Toilers")Schools
Schools with the purpose of training international students in communist theory, military/guerilla tactics, and socialist economics, with the hope of having them organize in their home countries

The International Eugene Debs School, (est. 1934, formerly (1934-1960) the Institute for Scientific Socialism, the main school dedicated towards training new political cadres in both political and military tactics, modeled on the International Lenin School), Debs, DC

Rand University (est. 1934, more theory and social science oriented, formerly the Rand School of Social Science[2]), New York City, Metropolis SR

Sequoyah State (est. 1940, meant to train indigenous activists, both locally and from countries like Australia, South Africa, and other settler-colonial countries), Tulsa, Sequoyah

Langston Hughes International University (est. 1939, formerly (1939-1951) the Communist University for Black Toilers, (1951-1992) the Communist University for Workers in the South, meant to train specifically activists in colonial countries in Africa and the Caribbean, as well as local New Afrika organizers)) Atlanta, New Afrika and Port-au-Prince, Haiti AUR

The Chandra Bose School (est. 1954, meant to train both students and aspiring politicians from communist East Asia and organizers in capitalist South and Southeast Asia), Haywood City, Utah SR

Harry Haywood Military-Political Academy (Chicago)

Kansas City All-Arms Military Academy

Other notable universities

California University (formerly the University of California system)

• Los Angeles (formerly the University of Southern California and the University of California, Los Angeles)
• Bay Area (formerly the States Teachers College[3]; University of California, Berkeley; University of San Francisco; and the University of California, San Francisco)
• Palo Alto State University (formerly Stanford)
• Pasadena Science Institute (formerly the California Institute of Technology)

Haywood-Provo State (formerly LDS College[4], Brigham Young University, and the University of Utah)

Detroit University (merger of the main campuses of the University of Michigan and Michigan State College)

Republican University of Metropolis (formed from state-sponsored colleges in territory ceded from Connetticutt, New Jersey and New York)

Miami International University

Tampa State University

Denver-Boulder State (University of Colorado and Colorado State)

Seattle State (University of Washington)

Twin Cities State (University of Minnesota)

Houston State (Houston Junior College[5], Rice University, Texas A&M)

Austin State (University of Texas)

Dinetah State (formerly (1937-1968), Navajo University)

Sioux State

Tempe State (Arizona State)

Tucson State (University of Arizona)

Chicagoland University (formerly the University of Chicago)

University of Pittsburgh (merger of University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Institute of Technology (OTL predecessor of Carnegie-Mellon University))

New Afrika University (system built from both dissolved state university systems and historically black colleges and universities

• Atlanta (Morehouse, Spelman, Clark, Atlanta, Georgia School of Technology)
• Columbia (University of South Carolina, Allen, Benedict)
• Charleston
• Douglass
• Selma (Selma University)

West Point Higher All Arms Command School (Formerly United States Military Academy)

Annapolis Higher Naval and Marine School (Formerly United States Naval Academy)

[1] The term "Ivy League" was only informally used beginning in the 1930s OTL, and only adopted officially as a sports league name in 1954.
[2] Real organization, not to be confused with either the Rand Corporation or Ayn Rand.
[3] Name was later changed to San Jose State University OTL
[4] Now known as Ensign College
[5] Now the University of Houston

-------------------------------
Military Education in the UASR (as of 2024)
Stavka of the Revolutionary Military Council

• Academies
  • DeLeon City General Staff Academy
  • Military Diplomatic Academy, Debs Commune
• Engineering
  • New Brunswick Higher Military Engineering College
  • San José Higher Military Engineering College

Main Directorate of Military Internationalism

• Columbus International Higher Military School
• Houston Higher Military School of Air Defense
• San Diego Military Aviation Institute

Main Political Directorate of the Armed Forces

• Academies
  • Harry Haywood Military-Political Academy, Chicago
• Military-Political
  • Norfolk Naval Political School
  • San Francisco Naval Political School
  • Atlanta Higher Military-Political School
  • Detroit Higher Military-Political School
  • Seattle Higher Military-Political School
• Other
  • Military Institute of Physical Culture

Red Army Intendance

• Academies
  • Military Academy of Logistics and Transport, Louisville
• Command
  • Chicago Higher Command School of Road and Engineering Troops
• Support
  • Toledo Higher Military School of Logistics
  • Phoenix Higher Military School of Logistics
• Engineering
  • Butte Higher Military Technical School

Red Army

• Academies
  • Kansas City All-Arms Military Academy
  • Chaffee Tank Forces Academy, St. Louis
  • Doolittle Military Aviation Academy, Los Angeles
  • Dorian Military Artillery Academy, Fort Monroe
  • Indianapolis Military Engineering Academy
  • Oppenheimer NBC Protection Military Academy, Pittsburgh
  • Sorge Military Signals Academy, DeLeon-Debs
• All-Arms
  • Alamogordo Higher All-Arms Command School
  • Columbus Higher All-Arms Command School
  • Vallejo Higher All-Arms Command School
  • West Point Higher All Arms Command School
• Tank Forces
  • Bismarck Higher Tank Command School
  • Detroit Higher Tank Command School
  • Louisville Higher Tank Command School
  • Birmingham Higher Tank Engineering School
• Rocket and Artillery Forces
  • Reno Higher Artillery School
  • Sequoyah Higher Artillery School
• Signal Troops
  • Boston Higher Military Signals School
  • Palo Alto Higher Military Signals School
• Army Air Forces
  • Cape Canaveral Higher Military Aviation School
  • Kansas City Higher Military Aviation School
  • Langley Higher Military Aviation School
  • Los Angeles Higher Military Aviation School
  • Minneapolis Higher Military Aviation School
  • Seattle Higher Military Aviation School
  • San José Aviation Engineering School
  • Indianapolis Aviation Engineering School
  • Reno Higher Military School of Air Defense

Red Navy

• Academies
  • Lockwood Naval Academy, Newport
  • Monterey Naval Aviation Academy
  • Butler Marine Academy, Norfolk
• Command
  • Annapolis Higher Naval and Marine School
  • Houston Higher Naval School
  • San Francisco Higher Naval School
  • Tacoma Higher Naval School
• Engineering
  • Levin Naval Engineering School, Metropolis
  • San Francisco Naval Engineering School

Secretariat for Education

• Main Directorate of Reserve Officer Training
  • University military departments
  • Technical Institute military departments
• Thälmann Military Schools
• Levin Naval Schools

 

[Traveller76]

Did the Trinitarians have University or Theology Schools?

 

[Miss Teri]

Did the Trinitarians have University or Theology Schools?

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Well, no, for two reasons:
1. Trinitarians are not a hierarchical religion

2. They abolish parochial schools

The other major educational reforms of the period were more structural than methodological. The Congress of Soviets had abolished all private educational institutions, including parochial schools, and the mid-'30s saw the continued battle to integrate former parochial school students into public school systems. Many feathers were ruffled, particularly among American Catholics, and the end of the Catholic educational system in America added further complexities to the growing theological disputes in Catholicism.

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[the atom]

Are Americans finally normal about post secondary education or have some attitudes about the all consuming importance of Ivy League credentials carried over?

 

[Jake]

Well, no, for two reasons:
1. Trinitarians are not a hierarchical religion

2. They abolish parochial schools

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Do they still have seminaries of some sort, though? Presumably there must be some sort of training and certification process for people wishing to enter the priesthood, even a 'non-heirarchical' faith would need something like that.

 

[Spartakrod]

Are Americans finally normal about post secondary education or have some attitudes about the all consuming importance of Ivy League credentials carried over?

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Well, the 30s are before the Ivy League was really fully solidified as a thing so I'd be very surprised if the same sort of brainworms arose around it.