Remove ads

Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Jake said:
I don't think Ireland would necessarily have to be fully Communist-aligned to lease the Americans an airbase or two. For one thing they probably need the rental income let alone some help training up their own military, and "You know what would really piss off the English?" is an argument that would carry some weight with the war of independence still within living memory.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Unlikely, if only because butterflies from no long, long, long reign of Dev and the not all that subtle intent of the United Republics to go to war with the British Empire prior to Hitler Hitler'ing all over the place would likely mean that the Royal Navy retains their bases at Lough Swilly, Berehaven and Cobh.

Pissing off the British is all fine and good when its election time, or when there's no real consequences (see the brexit debacles under May, which stopped once Johnson was in power); but not when it's clearly going to bite us firmly in the ass in a manner that outweighs the feels or the money. Simple geography makes Britain our biggest trading partner, and proximity means that FBU proxies coup'ing whoever agrees the basing (before anyone sets up the bases themselves) would practically be a no-brainer shrug in Debbs and Moscow.

Having slept on it; while Dev (I know i sound like I'm glazing him, even if only as the devil, but he was unfortunately one of the defining figures of modern Ireland) being executed does have butterflies, a populist is likely to arise in Sinn Fein from the anti-treaty side and break from SF over the refusal to participate in the state after the Civil War and likely be elected sooner or later; I suspect they probably wouldn't have the reputation/pedigree from 1916/War of Independence/Civil War to chip away at the Anglo-Irish Treaty and the Free State Constitution, get into a trade war with Britain over it, have repeated snap elections to give himself cover to do so; abolish the upper house and then introduce a new constitution more or less written by him (and more or less designed the Presidency with his own plum retirement in mind.

You'd have probably gotten a somewhat pragmatic populist who'd have gritted his teeth about the Oath, adopted conservative social policies that lured a great deal of the non middle class vote away from Cumann na nGaedheal, maybe even some of the cosmetic changes towards the provisions of the treaty; but the American Revolution would have Britain very much looking over Ireland's shoulder; so any substantial changes that provoked the trade war in OTL might provoke a far harsher reaction from a Britain that, while a shadow of it's former might, is still perfectly capable of pulversing us; so there would likely need to be done on a far more mercenary quid-pro-quo basis.

One thought that does occur is that Canada and America effectively being cut off from being places many Irish people (north and south) emigrate to (if only due to religous factors) and the fact that the FBU is going to have to invest in what might otherwise become a knife in their back is probably going to have some pretty far reaching consequences for Ireland's demographics going forward.
 
There was the Limerick Soviet during the civil war, but that was well before the American revolution; but between the OTL 1920's and 1960's Sinn Fein and associate groups leaned more to the Nationalist that the Socialist half of their ideology.

One though does occur that, while O'Duffy never had the makings of a varsity Duce (seemed to take more notes from Mussolini than Hitler), being even tangentially involved in a nationalist victory in Spain does strengthen his hand with trying to set up a Fascist/Corporatist Party on his return to Ireland; which may prompt the Angevin's to take preemptive actions.
 
Last edited:
Remove ads
American Literature Class (c. 2023)
  • Sidestory
    • List of selected books recommended for English/Literature teachers in the Metropolis School System (with descriptions), published 2023

    Note: These are only recommended novels. Please only choose ten in accordance to your curriculum and which subjects you are going to teach. Note that these are recommendations and any novels that fit the curriculum are still welcome. Suggestions are more than welcome.
    The Knights     by Aristophanes (424 BCE)
    • An Ancient Greek comic play commenting on the society of ancient Athens, marking one of the most significant examples of political satire from the ancient world.

    Utopia by Thomas Moore (1519)
    • A classic work of social critique, exploring the ideal society of the titular fictional country, sometimes described in retrospect as communist, in order to contrast it with the ills of European societies of the time.

    Hamlet by William Shakespeare (1601)
    • Among the most influential works by Shakespeare, thought to be influenced by ancient and medieval European legends. Tells the fictional tale of Prince Hamlet's quest for revenge against his uncle, King Claudius of Denmark, who murdered Hamlet's father in order to seize the throne.

    Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes (1605-15)
    • Tells the tale of a low-ranking Spanish noble so obsessed with chivalric literature, that he styles himself as a knight-errant, and embarks on an eccentric quest to revive chivalry with a farm worker as his squire.

    A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift (1729)
    • An essay satirizing colonialism and anti-Catholic sentiment in Britain and Ireland, which sarcastically proposed that poor Irish people sell their children as food for the Protestant landed nobility. Provoking anger from the British authorities of the time, it has become one of the biggest influences on English language satire.

    Common Sense by Thomas Paine (1776)
    • A pamphlet which outlines a vision and argument for the settlers of the Thirteen Colonies to establish a radically democratic and republican government in North America.

    Reveries of the Solitary Walker by Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1782)
    • The unfinished final book by Rousseau combines both philosophical arguments with poetic personal and biographical discussion.

    The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano by Olaudah Equiano (1789)
    • The autobiography of an enslaved man from modern day Nigeria, who attempted to earn spiritual freedom through study of Christianity and eventually became a leading figure in the British abolitionist movement.

    Frankenstein by Mary Shelley (1818)
    • Tells the story of a scientist who creates a humanoid creature out of body parts, and of the creature's quest for revenge against his creator. Considered a classic of the gothic horror genre.

    Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass by Fredrick Douglass (1845)
    • Frederick Douglass' story of surviving and escaping slavery, detailing its cruelty in graphic detail

    Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë (1847)
    • A bildungsroman focused on the eponymous protagonist, a woman working as a family tutor who falls in love with her employer. Noted for its commentary on religion, sexuality and class and gender relations.

    The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Fredrich Engels (1848)
    • A pamphlet detailing the progression of history as a series of class relationships, and advocates a system to replace capitalism (where the bourgeoisie holds power) with a system where the working class (the proletariat) holds power. Laid the basis for Marxism as a political force.

    Moby-Dick by Herman Melville (1851)
    • The tale of sailor Captain Ahab's hunt for vengeance against the titular sperm whale, which bit off his leg during a previous voyage.

    Walden by Henry David Thoreau (1864)
    • A philosophical treatise in which Thoreau documents his experience of spending two years living a self-reliant life in an isolated forest cabin living alongside nature.

    Around the World in Eighty Day by Jules Verne (1872)
    • The adventures of an English gentleman who accepts a bet that he can circumnavigate the globe in 80 days using the new transport technologies of the time.

    The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain (1884)
    • A story, commenting on racism, of the adventures of a young boy with a runaway slave on the Mississippi River.

    Germinal by Émile Zola (1885)
    • A masterpiece of French literature, telling the harrowing tale of a miners' strike in Northern France in the 1860s through the point of view of a young migrant worker, set against a backdrop of poverty and destitution.

    The Personal Memoirs of U. S. Grant by Ulysses S. Grant (1885)
    • The autobiography of President Ulysses S Grant, with a particular focus on the Mexican-American War and the Slaver's War.

    Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy (1888)
    • The story of a young man who falls asleep in 1887 and wakes up in the year 2000, exploring an imagined idealized future socialist society in America.

    The War of the Worlds by HG Wells (1898)
    • The chronicle of a Martian invasion of Earth.

    Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad (1899)
    • The harrowing tale of a steamer captain in the Congo Free State, witnessing the brutality and oppression of the colonial state firsthand. Best paired with a later response novel.

    The Jungle by Upton Sinclair (1905)
    • The harrowing tale of the excesses of Second Republic capitalism from the perspective of a young immigrant worker.

    Red Star by Alexander Bogdanov (1908)
    • A science-fiction story written in the context of the failure of the Revolution of 1905, where the protagonist, Leonid (who represents Bogdanov himself), is taken into Mars, where a scientifically advanced but flawed communist society lives.

    The Iron Heel by Jack London (1908)
    • Progenitor of dystopian fiction, depicts the tragic future of an America where the revolution failed, and a tyranny resembling the Fascist dictatorships to come has taken over the country.

    The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropist by Robert Tressell (1914)
    • A classic of British socialist literature, this story explores the struggles of working people under the class system of England around the turn of the century.

    The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka (1915)
    • The struggles of a man who wakes up one morning to find himself transformed into a giant insect.

    Ten Days That Shook the World (1919, 1950 Edition) by John Reed
    • Reed's memoir about the Russian Revolution. Specifically the 1950 version edited by Reed shortly before his death with his reflections on the legacy of the Russian Revolution.

    RUR (Rossum's Universal Robots) by Karel Capek (1920)
    • Science fiction play detailing the creation of autonomous human like "robots", and the eventual revolution. Introduced the word "robot" (from the Czech "roboti") to the English language.

    Aelita by Alexei Tolstoy (1923)
    • Written in the aftermath of the Russian Revolution, tells the story of a Soviet expedition to Mars, which discovers a native civilization with its own stratified class society.

    Under Red, White, and Blue by F. Scott Fitzgerald (1925)
    • The tragic tale of bootlegger Jay Gatsby, told as a metaphor for the American Dream.

    The Death Ship by B. Traven (1926)
    • A tale of American Gerald Gales who is rendered stateless and is forced from country to country, themes of immigration and anarchism abound.

    A Farewell to Arms by Katherine Hemingway (1929)
    • A romance between an American member of the Italian ambulance corps and a British nurse against the backdrop of the Great War.

    Red Harvest by Dashiell Hammett (1929)
    • One of the most influential novels on crime and mystery fiction in the Comintern. Follows the Continental Op as he investigates several murders amid a labour dispute in a corrupt Montana mining town.

    Boston by Upton Sinclair (1929)
    • Fictionalized retelling of the Sacco and Vanzetti trial

    Journey to the East by James Cheng* (1930)
    • The story of a young Chinese immigrant from a wealthy educated family following the 1912 Chinese Revolution, seeing him flee to America, become an industrial worker during the Great War, and his eventual embrace of his new country.

    Family by Ba Jin (1932)
    • A story of intergenerational conflict and turmoil within a 1920s family in China, reflecting the changes and uncertainty facing Chinese society of the time.

    Why Socialism by Norman Thomas (1932)
    • A "political pamphlet" by the Thomas-Sinclair 1932 Presidential campaign describing their political beliefs.

    The Werewolf of Paris by Guy Endore (1933)
    • The story of France in the 19th century, spanning from the 1848 revolution to the Paris Commune- as told through the story of a werewolf

    Main Street, USA by Terrance Yates* (writing as Clarence Hollingsworth) (1935)
    • A roman a clef detailing Yates as one of the Columbia students who helped organize students during the Bienno Rosso in 1919.

    How the Steel was Tempered by Nikolai Ostrovsky (1936)
    • Follows the life of Pavel Korchagin, including his fighting in and aftermath of the Russian Civil War when he fought for the Bolsheviks during the war and was injured.

    Konstantin by Vladimir Kirasov* (1938)
    • A satire about an assistant (Lydia) of the titular temperamental Russian playwright Konstatin Mikhaelovich Buklin (inspired in part by Mikhail Bulgakov), in exile in America, and him staging an adaptation of Turgenev's Fathers and Sons, resulting in a showdown between Buklin, the Culture Secretariat, and GUGB agents monitoring Buklin.

    Studs Lonigan Trilogy by James T Farrell (1938)
    • Collection of Farrell's Young Lonigan (1932), The Young Manhood of Studs Lonigan (1934), and Judgment Day (1935), detailing the interesting life and times of the titular Irish American Studs Lonigan, who slowly descends into a cycle of violence and alcoholism by the circumstances of his neighborhood.

    My Disillusionment With America by Emma Goldman (1938)
    • Emma Goldman's final work, details her experiences during the Second American Revolution, her time as Secretary of Labor, and her eventual disillusionment with the Foster Government.

    The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck (1940)
    • The grand epic tale of the Joad family as they travel from war torn Oklahoma to California during the Revolution.

    Native Son by Richard Wright (1940)
    • The story of Bigger Thomas, a black man accused of killing a white woman, resulting in the explosion of tensions in post-war Chicago.

    A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith (1943)
    • The life of Mary Frances Nolan, born of immigrant parents, and their life in early 20th century New York

    Mrs. Takagawi by Tamika Kida* (1945)
    • The titular character is a Japanese American lawyer in California defending a Japanese American teenager accused of killing a prominent local party official, claiming self-defense, and the resulting racial tension (increased by the war). Based on the Albert Munemori case

    Metropolis by Osamu Tezuka (1947)
    • The story of a future society and growing tensions between a robotic working class and an increasingly authoritarian workers party. Believed to be a secret satire of the post-war Japanese communist government.

    The Washingtons: An American Saga by Herbert Jones* (1948)
    • A doorstopper novel focusing on the Washington family of Virginia, from their first ancestor, a slave brought during the TransAtlantic Slave Trade, through the first American Revolution, the Slaver's War, the Great War, and the World Revolutionary War.

    The Last Man in Europe by George Orwell (1950)
    • A seminal text in dystopian fiction, dealing with a futuristic "cold war" between a communist human society in North America and a degrading capitalist society of animal people in Europe. Told from the perspective of the titular character, a Briton named Gerald.

    Foundation by Isaac Asimov (1951)
    • The story of Hari Seldon, a psychohistorian in the distant future, as he struggles to build a "Foundation" amid the collapse of a Galactic Empire

    Howl by Allen Ginsburg (1951)
    • Long form, experimental poem with a focus on detailing American life, heavy in metaphor. Believed to be one of the catalysts for the Second Cultural Revolution

    Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952)
    • A picaresque narrative centered on an unnamed black man and his adventures in dealing with "communistic racism" and black nationalism.

    Death by Fame by Roberta Betancourt* (1954)
    • Written in the immediate aftermath of the Limelight scandal by a former screenwriter who worked for Chaplin, this novel recounts the story of a group of struggling film actors in Los Angeles who find their lives forever changed after one of them is embroiled in a scandal with a famous star.

    The Autobiography of David D. Eisenhower by David D Eisenhower (1955)
    • Supreme Commander of the INTREV forces during the World Revolutionary War details his childhood in Kansas and Texas, before describing how he embraced socialism during the Great War, becoming a key player during the American Revolution, and his experiences leading the command during WW2.

    The Martian Candidate by John Wyndham (1956)
    • A science fiction tale about an ex-spationaut who is the first man on Mars, and runs for office, only to have increasingly… strange views, and is in fact a secret Martian agent sent to take over the Earth.

    The Antares Protocol by Ivan Efremov (1957)
    • A communist space crew in the distant future explores a planet under a stagnant, inefficient dictatorship. Believed to be a satire of the Soviet system under Molotov and Frunze.

    The Osiris Foliage by HP Lovecraft (1958)
    • The story of a mysterious alien plant brought back by a space mission that becomes increasingly malevolent, slowly enveloping entire communes and eventually attacking people, making them part of a hive mind subservient to the hive. Believed to have been inspired by increasing environmental awareness.

    The Martians by Ray Bradbury, Al Feldstein, and Wallace Wood (1959)
    • Considered one of the first "graphic novels", a long form comic book (adapted from short stories published in Red and Black Comics' Weird Science-Fantasy) about the future colonization of Mars, and the formation of a communist society and the struggle that went into it.

    Credit Where It's Due by George Weiner* (1961)
    • The story of Henry Valley, a corrupt accountant arrested in 1932, but released during the general amnesty of the First Cultural Revolution and made to work as a forensic accountant, working under stern commissar Spartacus Jones.[1]

    Gentleman by Chinua Achebe (1961)
    • A story parodying the rise of native elites in newly self-governing AFS-aligned African states, and their tendency to emulate and replicate both the culture and the abuses of the former colonial government.

    Silent Spring by Rachel Carson (1962)
    • Describes the increasing problem of pollution and its resulting environmental devastation it causes, with a particular focus on DDT. Sparked the modern environmental movement.

    Cacti in the Sunlight by Ramon Formosa* (1964)
    • A "narrative memoir", based on the narrator's experiences as a partisan in the Southwestern Theatre of the Revolution. In particular, his squadron's (a mixed Mexican-Punjabi band) battle against a nefarious arms dealer named Barry Goldwater.

    Green Blood by Rodolfo Salvati* (1965)
    • A story set in Integralist Brazil, about two estranged brothers, one a devoted Greenshirt and the other a closeted Uranian, whose familial connection mutually threatens one another with mortal danger. One of the most renowned works dealing with the Brazilian Holocaust, and influential on USAT+ liberation movements.

    The Secret of Wilmington Lot No. 84 by Morris Rubenstein* (1966)
    • A satire of both wartime and post-war America, starring Private Billiam T. Bailey, a devout communist who is assigned to the titular lot in Wilmington, Delaware (a secret government research facility), and his ultimate detailings with insane rocket scientists, angry alien gods, and a new substance that could end the world- while also not angering his bosses in the nomenklatura (which seemingly don't change despite the formations and break-ups of parties.)

    The Family Solomon by Emma Salomons* (1967)
    • A epic tale of the titular family of Jewish immigrants, from their arrival under matriarch Leah in the US in 1905, through grandson Fredrick's service during the Revolution and WWII, and eventually becoming the assistant to a deranged technocrat during the Second Cultural Revolution

    The Children's Crusade by Kurt Vonnegut (1969)
    • The saga of Billy Pilgrim, who is abducted by aliens called Tralfamadorians (who perceive time in "all directions) during the Battle of Stalingrad, and experiences his life in a distinctly non-chronological order.

    Mumbo Jumbo by Ishmeal Reed (1972)
    • A tale of conspiracy and voudou set during the Harlem Renaissance.

    Red Year, Black Sox by EL Doctorow (1976)
    • A series of interlocking plots centered on average people during the concurrent Black Sox scandal and Bienno Rosso in 1919.
    A Contract With God by Will Eisner (1978)
    • A short story collection of comics, set within the same tenement building during the 1920's and 30's (based off Eisner's own childhood)

    Kindred by Octavia Butler (1979)
    • Science fiction story about a young black woman who seemingly travels back in time to antebellum Maryland, where she endures the horrors of slavery.

    The Brothers by Sarah Vinchovsky* (1982)
    • The story of two brothers who become executives in Jazz Age Hollywood, only to end up on opposite sides of the Revolution, and running studios in the mainland and Cuba. Details the resulting developments of the film industry in both countries.

    Reaction by Yargos Yannios* (1983)
    • A fictionalization of the treason trial of Irene and Frederic Joliot-Curie (represented by Cynthia and Jean Escoffier) as told through their lawyer, leftist Georges Blum.

    Unlucky Charms by Richard E. Kim (1984)
    • A historical fiction novel centered on a Chosun-Nippon joint special unit in Indochina, with a new American commissar being assigned. There are deep dives into the generational trauma of the 20th century, stretching from the Chosun occupation, Nipponese Self-Purification Campaign, and a Midwestern Asian's struggle with identity. All of this comes to a head over the supposed silly superstitions concerning Assorted Charms.

    Watchmen by Alan Moore and Rick Veitch (1985)
    • A dark comic book satire of the superhero genre, featuring flawed, cruel superheroes modeled on various archetypes and characters from comics on both sides of the Atlantic (focusing on dueling American-Soviet and Franco-British teams), and an alternate history centered on a "superhuman arms race", which threatens to destroy the Earth. [2]

    Beloved by Toni Morrison (1987)
    • A haunting ghost story centered on a newly freed family in Ohio shortly after the Slaver's War.

    Redemption by Fire: My Experience with the Red Army by Reinhardt Koller* (1988)

    • An autobiographical account of a retired East German Generalleutnant, with detailed descriptions of his time as a Landser in the Wehrmacht to his capture by the Red Army, and his eventual return to Berlin as part of the DBA.

    Fear and Loathing in the Bush Fire by Monte Melkonian* (1989)
    • A darkly comedic memoir of the author's experiences being deployed in the Azanian War from December 1983 to March 1986, detailing personal accounts of what he saw and experienced fighting in the bush.

    Red Star Operations by Ma Hanying* (1993)
    • A satirical retelling of the space race of the 1960's and 70's, centering on a scientist within the Chinese space program, and her numerous bizarre experiences, including space orgies and contact with extraterrestrials, and the nitpicking of clueless bureaucrats.

    Mumbai by Anand Divaakar* (1994)
    • A look into the so-called "New Bollywood", and its intersection with the Red Summer, from the perspective of numerous characters, including an actress (who ends up barely escaping the infamous Osho murders) and a young hot director determined to do away with musicals.

    Nike of the North Star by Margaret Atwood (1996)
    • The story of the titular Canadian comic book character, and her creator, German Jewish refugee Julia Wasserman, during the Depression, WW2, and the immediate postwar period. Based on the creation of characters like Nelvana and Johnny Canuck.


    The Life and Death of Sanjay the King by Ganesh Namrathan* (2004)
    • The story of the titular character, the American-born son of Indian immigrants, and his struggles in love and loss, interspersed with stories of his parents living in post-war India and their eventual arrival to America.

    Murder in the 80th Degree by Maria Vegara* (2007)
    • A mixture of science fiction, magical realism, and detective story, focusing on a "time city", where every point in time intersects, resulting in multiple historical periods interacting. The main character, a Mexican detective from the 1960's, investigates the murder of a 19th century American labor activist, resulting in the uncovery of a conspiracy to break up the city.




    [1] Adapted into a film in 1964, and later a procedural television series
    [2] A mixture of OTL Watchmen and Veitch's The One
     
  • Sidestory
    • I'm surprised Doonesbury isn't mentioned. Or Calvin and Hobbes, but then I suppose this isn't the sort of list they'd appear on. So honestly I don't know what I'm complaining about…also, I thought Newt Gingritch ended up writing Foundation here? Or am I confusing my timelines?
     
    Octavia Butler mentioned 🔥

    I like how there's a stretch of the 50's that's just sci-fi novel after sci-fi novel, imitating its rise during that time period OTL. I can imagine it wasn't spearheaded by a shitstain like John W. Campbell this time around, though.
     
    I was a little surprised to see no Heinlein either. Did we find out what happened to him at some point in this or a previous thread? I don't recall.
     
    Jake said:
    I was a little surprised to see no Heinlein either. Did we find out what happened to him at some point in this or a previous thread? I don't recall.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I considered it, but a lot of his bigger novels are either sublimated into Star Trek (Stranger in a Strange Land and Starship Troopers) or into other television shows after a time.
    VoidUtopian said:
    Octavia Butler mentioned 🔥

    I like how there's a stretch of the 50's that's just sci-fi novel after sci-fi novel, imitating its rise during that time period OTL. I can imagine it wasn't spearheaded by a shitstain like John W. Campbell this time around, though.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Nope, Campbell instead becomes publisher of Americuban mag Amazing Stories, and a founder of Dianetics.

    His replacement is mostly people like Don Woldheim, Lester Del Rey, and Fred Pohl.
     
    Always fun to see how different Reds! America is from OTL, especially how they view literature from before the PoD.

    Miss Teri said:
    HP Lovecraft (1958)
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Did Lovecraft not develop cancer ITTL? I don't think 30's medical tech could save him, no matter the social context.

    Miss Teri said:
    The Children's Crusade by Kurt Vonnegut (1969)
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Oof, poor Vonnegut avoided Dresden only to get sent to Stalingrad. I'd imagine that it's a much different story, given that it seems to me that Slaughterhouse Five is written with the feeling of impotence in the face of war and trauma.
     
    Miss Teri said:
    Common Sense by Thomas Paine (1776)
    • A pamphlet which outlines a vision and argument for the settlers of the Thirteen Colonies to establish a radically democratic and republican government in North America.

    A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift (1729)
    • An essay satirizing colonialism and anti-Catholic sentiment in Britain and Ireland, which sarcastically proposed that poor Irish people sell their children as food for the Protestant landed nobility. Provoking anger from the British authorities of the time, it has become one of the biggest influences on English language satire.

    The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Fredrich Engels (1848)
    • A pamphlet detailing the progression of history as a series of class relationships, and advocates a system to replace capitalism (where the bourgeoisie holds power) with a system where the working class (the proletariat) holds power. Laid the basis for Marxism as a political force.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    The first question, and it is a fundamental one, is why are there so many social essays and political treatises here? I don't know about you, but in my country the school literature course is specifically literary criticism. Throughout the history of the USSR (even during the first post-revolutionary decade, when everything was overly ideologized), no one ever thought of teaching the "Manifesto" of Marx and Engels in such lessons - because they study art here. Ideology may have a place here, but in teaching aids, textbooks, and methods and conclusions of analysis. And the "Manifesto of the Communist Party" and other "Common Sense" would be more appropriate in Social Science lessons or something similar.
    Miss Teri said:
    The Antares Protocol by Ivan Efremov (1957)
    • A communist space crew in the distant future explores a planet under a stagnant, inefficient dictatorship. Believed to be a satire of the Soviet system under Molotov and Frunze.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I am very flattered that you included Ivan Antonovich, but it seems to me... that you missed the mark. First of all, it is necessary to study his formation, how his career and philosophical evolution developed (yes - he was quite a philosopher). I can say that such a work is more in keeping with the late sixties or early seventies. Moreover, contrary to popular opinion, he never made very specific analogies - he was more concerned with the general state of humanity (although "Hour of the Bull" points to the "gangster capitalism" of the USA and the "ant pseudo-socialism" of Maoist China, and many see it as a parody of the USSR, rather a generalized display of the vices of the 20th century - and it is completely relevant for the 21st).
    Isn't there too much science fiction? I would rather leave it for extracurricular reading (many Russian schools have a practice of giving students a choice of several works to read on weekends or vacations). Or for grades 1-4 - but there should clearly be simpler and more understandable works there.
    Miss Teri said:
    Watchmen by Alan Moore and Rick Veitch (1985)
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    (Sigh) Oh, those Americans.
     
    While I appreciate that the superhero genre* shares some of the same story convention limits in both OTL and ATL, I'm guessing/supposing that by the 80's the butterflies probably ensure that the content by which Moore conveys his themes in Reds!Watchmen is as far removed from OTL as the lamentable Doomsday Clock is from OTL!Watchmen?

    *Not knowing exactly where to look, I understand that one of the previous threads goes into greater detail about just how divergent the superhero genre would have had to evolve to not be perceived as reactionary?
     
    king of hybrids said:
    While I appreciate that the superhero genre* shares some of the same story convention limits in both OTL and ATL, I'm guessing/supposing that by the 80's the butterflies probably ensure that the content by which Moore conveys his themes in Reds!Watchmen is as far removed from OTL as the lamentable Doomsday Clock is from OTL!Watchmen?

    *Not knowing exactly where to look, I understand that one of the previous threads goes into greater detail about just how divergent the superhero genre would have had to evolve to not be perceived as reactionary?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Watchmen TTL is more about Cold War tensions and superheroes there represent a kind of militarism and are metaphors for nuclear weapons and the arms race.

    The genre sticks to its anti-fascist roots (though it still does have its share of propaganda, albeit for the other side), and doesn't become the purview of middle class collectors as OTL.
     
    CastIron said:
    Did Lovecraft not develop cancer ITTL? I don't think 30's medical tech could save him, no matter the social context.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I think the TL goes with a view I share that the cancer was a result OTL of his poor diet and precarian living conditions and the resulting strain on his health more broadly, and that a more stable financial situation could've butterflied it entirely. Of course my own President Lovecraft TL involved him developing it anyway, but not until 1943. I recall an AH novel I read where earlier success also butterflied the cancer completely and we got to see him complete the political and race relations pivot that was sadly aborted OTL and as I recall in that work he dies in 1960 in a house fire.
     
    Born in the USSA said:
    I think the TL goes with a view I share that the cancer was a result OTL of his poor diet and precarian living conditions and the resulting strain on his health more broadly, and that a more stable financial situation could've butterflied it entirely. Of course my own President Lovecraft TL involved him developing it anyway, but not until 1943. I recall an AH novel I read where earlier success also butterflied the cancer completely and we got to see him complete the political and race relations pivot that was sadly aborted OTL and as I recall in that work he dies in 1960 in a house fire.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Interested in the President Lovecraft idea. He's essentially an aborted fascist dictator
     
    Miss Teri said:
    Interested in the President Lovecraft idea. He's essentially an aborted fascist dictator
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I always found those sorts of American fascism ideas fairly lazy, he's basically a very heterodox breed of socialist in my King in Yellow TL based on the sorts of attitudes he was developing around the Great Depression OTL, though his particular ideology is still called "Fascism". Hell the Comintern is more successful than OTL too but it ends up an esperantist councilist project. Also individualist anarchism keeps its legs under it too and the Franco-British become incredibly strange in response to what they see as a world gone mad. If anyone would like I can post a link.
     
    Last edited:
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top