Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Is Thomas Sankara Burkinabé military officer, Marxist revolutionary and Pan-Africanist going to come up in this timeline? I can imagine that unless he temporarily took power in a coup during the Indo-China War, he wouldn't be in power for long. Or is he going to be a minor figure that plays no importance in Africa?
 
Last edited:
Is Thomas Sankara Burkinabé military officer, Marxist revolutionary and Pan-Africanist going to come up in this timeline? I can imagine that unless he temporarily took power in a coup during the Indo-China War, he would unlikely to be in power for long. Or is he going to be a minor figure that plays no importance in Africa?

We got plans for him come the Long 80's...
 
On the Topic of Education, it was mentioned earlier about how the Education system in the United Republics was tailored to be more "Open" and "Interactive" with Teachers engaging with students more and having discourse with them. While I have a feeling this is moreso with Social Sciences and Liberal Studies (IE, English and History Classes), how are the STEM Classes handeled in UR Education, or how different are they persay.
Also, while I highly doubt it, how frequent do Blue Bloc Youth attend Red Bloc Colleges. Id imagine the UR would still have impressive Colleges that would allure most international youth (I can see maybe say Labour-voting Youth in the UK/FBU being more inclined or even desiring to pursue a education in the UR)
 
I can kinda grok the civilian higher education system - the University of America system is the All-Union public system, there's Republican systems akin to OTL state public university systems, & specialized foreign student-focused "Toilers" school. But trying to figure out why UASR military education is grouped that way is kind of a headache lol

That's a lot of specialist & officer schools, even with the WFRA & WFRN being designed to fold in the UASR's large militia/public safety forces in the event of peer war

West Point Higher All Arms Command School (Formerly United States Military Academy)

Annapolis Higher Naval and Marine School (Formerly United States Naval Academy)
Btw are these supposed to be in the military schools category instead?
 
Political Training ("Toilers")Schools
To be honest, in conditions of almost completely suspended decolonization, problems may arise with the recruitment of students - in the sense that no one will let them in, because no one wants potential "terrorists". On the other hand, of course, you could find out about the training of saboteurs simply by disguising yourself as a student.

On the Topic of Education, it was mentioned earlier about how the Education system in the United Republics was tailored to be more "Open" and "Interactive" with Teachers engaging with students more and having discourse with them. While I have a feeling this is moreso with Social Sciences and Liberal Studies (IE, English and History Classes), how are the STEM Classes handeled in UR Education, or how different are they persay.
Also, while I highly doubt it, how frequent do Blue Bloc Youth attend Red Bloc Colleges. Id imagine the UR would still have impressive Colleges that would allure most international youth (I can see maybe say Labour-voting Youth in the UK/FBU being more inclined or even desiring to pursue a education in the UR)
There are interesting parallels with the traditional Soviet school. The fact is that in its basic structure, the Soviet school is a slightly democratized and humanized Prussian gymnasium loaded with the philosophical ideas of the Narodnaya Volya. Therefore, on the one hand, more attention was paid to the need to maintain discipline in the classroom and the authority of the teacher, but on the other hand, he cannot use corporal punishment and must set an example by personal behavior. Therefore, it turned out to be the development of two lines in education - to keep students under a tight rein, and to develop an alternative democratic pedagogy. Actually, this can be seen in films and stories dedicated to school - teachers can be divided into leaders and those who try to be a friend to their students.
 
I can kinda grok the civilian higher education system - the University of America system is the All-Union public system, there's Republican systems akin to OTL state public university systems, & specialized foreign student-focused "Toilers" school. But trying to figure out why UASR military education is grouped that way is kind of a headache lol

That's a lot of specialist & officer schools, even with the WFRA & WFRN being designed to fold in the UASR's large militia/public safety forces in the event of peer war


Btw are these supposed to be in the military schools category instead?
There are a lot of them because there are a lot of officers required for a large standing military, and they chose to funnel people into dedicated military colleges rather than use ROTC or post-grad OCS from civilian schools

These schools also play a role in continuing education for both officers and NCOs. And ones with the appellation "academy" are dedicated entirely to post grad education of active duty officers.

That's why West Point and Annapolis are called "Higher Military Schools", or generically a military college, because they are primarily focused on cadet education (and share this space with other cadet schools, some generalized, others specialized)

It's also pretty typical for cadets to transfer between them. Someone who decided on her third year to pursue being an aviator would likely transfer from West Point or the equivalent to a military aviation college.

As I alluded to earlier, they also serve as centers for specialized NCO education as well. So aviation officers will take courses that have aviation NCOs in them, even though one is going to be a pilot and the other a maintenance specialist, they both need to have overlapping familiarities
 
The naval ensign is more or less the same sans the fasces so it's just the Norman cross with a hole in the middle.

The tricolour is not used because it is a republican symbol and as per the FBU treaty and the coronation of George VI as Emperor of the Franco-British Union as well as King of Great Britain and her Dominions the legacy of French republicanism ends forevermore with the formulation of the Union.

It is a de facto annexation in totality of France and her empire into the British Commonwealth with the Metropole having the prestige of being directly attached to the United Kingdom.

While Paris is the devolved centre of government of France, London is the de facto and de jure capital of a unitary state and they just add more seats in parliament for all the French delegates of the General Assembly and change up the electoral system to accommodate the French districts.

If this sounds unequal, well, it was the original FBU treaty OTL which was rejected by Petain being the legal leader of France to everyone except the UK and Free France being a baguette Taiwan in central Africa.

Of course, more immigration over time enters France than Britain and eventually Paris has its revenge as the Hexagon's per capita wealth climbs to a more equal level with that of Great Britain until the economic centre of gravity has increasingly shifted to the other side of the channel.

Sort of like what would have inevitably happened if the English King during either the Angevin era or the Hundred Years war ever actually succeeded in taking over France. But not quite as total as the centre of finance remains pretty firmly in Britain, and the Midlands are very hard to beat in terms of places to site heavy duty industry in Europe.

But for some English nationalists they found that in victory, there is defeat.

My ye olde model was essentially that the Entente Cordiale of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland with the French Republic would be dyarchic at its outset:

  1. Head of State: the British Sovereign + the President of the French Republic, co-chairing an Entente state council, comprised of a select committee of HM Privy Council + the state council of the French Republic [ essentially a bunch of vice presidents ] with royal assent / bill-signing being a collective action with the His/Her Britannic Majesty & His/Her Excellency the President of the Republic casting the tie-break in unity if there was any non-consensus
  2. Head of Government: Co-Prime Ministers of the Entente, in theory serving on 6-month rotation in turn chairing the Entente Cabinet to chair & cast tie-breaks in nominally collegial government as 1st PM proper — but in practice evolving into personalities falling into 'cohabitative' / 'junior-senior' power-sharing with the "first consul in effect" [ whether doing turn as 1st PM or 2nd PM ] being the mass-media & international voice of the Entente regime & policy-platform helmsman; and "the second consul" controlling cross-channel party-machinery & whips, and managing the gutter-fights with cross-channel civil service with the instability being covered by convention of 'term-limit' where first would give way to second in turn…
  3. Judiciary: Maybe a nod to the recent turn toward constitutional-usurpation by SCOTUS but life or very-long-tenure judges, but chaired by 'termed-out' "first consuls" would get bumped to supreme court chair, and offer rearguard political support for their junior "second" they got their turn in executive govt
In short its sort of an EU but with only the UK & FR as full-rank members, but that was my model

I sometimes like things baroque, and for the bourgeois, it offers so many opportunities to screwball formally popular procedural electoral systems.

I guess in legal fact the idea of the French totally surrendering [ at the least rightist version of ] the concept of the République française was hard for me to swallow, and allowed all sorts of interesting dynamical stuff, such as…

…where the Entente Cordiale was an asymmetrical federation, and only the French Metropole held-fast to the idea it was a coequal, bicephaleous state-union —

• while the UK devolved into components + Walloon etc

• on the other hand, The Hexagon became the economic-industrial & population metropolitan core

• where flipside again, British maybe on-average steered Entente high politics more often than not, but below the top-seniority, was heavily Francofied, but then again Brits who didn't climb to the top of the state ended up having excess influence in the Entente corporate giants & in the colonial administration

• and then yet again, French being far more 'colorist' vs 'one-drop' in instinct and cultural disposition in path-dependency, far more represented in the 'resident' / 'creole' / 'mestizo' fraction of the 'Entente outremer' and even the formally detached colonies / dependencies / protectorates in the 'associated states' or even so-called independent states that shift over into the FBU's alternative to the Comintern Fraternity of Laborers' Republics in the Alliance of Free States — but still exercising outsize influence
 
Last edited:
I do agree that the French agreeing to toss out the concept of Republicanism altogether and swear fealty to an English king seems a bit far fetched.

That might've been the treaty OTL but that doesn't mean they'd accept that specific version of it. It was rejected OTL after all.
 
I do agree that the French agreeing to toss out the concept of Republicanism altogether and swear fealty to an English king seems a bit far fetched.

That might've been the treaty OTL but that doesn't mean they'd accept that specific version of it. It was rejected OTL after all.

it was rejected OTL because most of the French leadership assumed that the war was already lost.
 
The structure of the FBU during the war is not necessarily the final form of the Imperial Union of France, Great Britain, and North Ireland and their Commonwealth. A state council for later on is planned, but the British Monarch does gain the imperial dignity the family has desired since Queen Victoria.

I however dislike "Entente" as a title since Entente means "informal understanding" rather than something official, as opposed to "Imperial" or "Union" which I feel would feel more official to the sort of pencil pushers who are very particular about the naming structure of things.
 
Last edited:
Yknow honestly im surprised that in this timeline there was no say Monarchist Faction that took ahold of France which would've maybe made the transition into the FBU Better due to the Republic already being dissolved by the French People themselves, rather than by some Military Generals as a last ditch attempt for survival. The Idea of a Dual Monarchy were a Bourbon King and a Saxe-Coburg-Gothian King rule their respective Kingdoms sounds fittingly cursed for a surreal state like the FBU.
 
There's also the fact that it was initially just a temporary measure. They were going to disband the union when the state of emergency was over, though just never got around to it on account of the Franco-British red scare. The general opinion of even French citizens in the FBU towards both the monarchy and the union as a whole is moreso ambivalence than support. As long as they get some autonomy via devolution, that's all they care about.
 
It's also notable that the ESCI, an explicitly republican party, has managed to bounce back to solid parliamentary numbers after multiple stints on the illegal list.
 
Hello all, I'm currently working on the history of Palestine in Reds!.

Are there any people here who is well-acquainted with Palestinian history (specifically the Arab viewpoint), and who would be willing to help me with my research?
I would also appreciate help from anyone who knows about inter-Arab relations and Palestinian-Arabs in the US in the 1930s.

You can PM me on this forum, or send me a DM on Discord (my username is qalqulserut) - whichever is most comfortable to you.
 
Last edited:
No idea if someone already asked this, but since the prospects of an Israeli state would have been a dead dodo long before the OTL end of the mandate in this verse, has the autonomous oblast ended up as the last chance saloon for many would be emigrants?
 
No idea if someone already asked this, but since the prospects of an Israeli state would have been a dead dodo long before the OTL end of the mandate in this verse, has the autonomous oblast ended up as the last chance saloon for many would be emigrants?

I'm not sure, because I know there's been mention of the socialist state in Palestine dispatching special agents hunt down escaped Nazi war criminals after WWII, which makes me suspect that even if Palestine isn't an ethnically Jewish/Zionist state, it probably has a significant Jewish population (hopefully with a living arrangement that's a bit more peaceable than OTL)
 
As per @Aelita's request; the official national symbols of the UASR.



The national flag shall be an engineer's compass overlaying a hammer, set in a circle formed by a half-gear and a wreath of grain. This emblem shall be centered on a field twice as long as tall. The field shall be divided diagonally from the bottom left to the upper right; the upper-left half shall be red, and the bottom-right half shall be black. (Constitution, Art. VII Sec. 2)

Despite its ostensibly Marxist basis, America has chosen to honor the efforts of the anarchist cause during the Second Revolution by adding the black--the banner of anarchy, to its flag. Vexillogists in and outside of the Comintern have noted the obvious positioning of the hammer and gear reflecting the hammer and sickle of the Soviet Union, the birthplace of the international revolution.


Crested by a Torch and the years 1776 and 1933, Blazon being Gules, Compass-hammer and gear-wheat Or, surrounded by Argent ring bordered Or, in Slab-serif condensed text saying "GREAT SEAL OF THE UNION OF AMERICAN SOCIALIST REPUBLICS". Supported by Wheat and Base being an angular scroll with condensed modern text bearing the motto "WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE".

The insignia of the Union of American Socialist Republics are ostensibly designed to call back to its soviet counterparts as in a form of international solidarity (see flag). However, the modern American sensibility has not been lost--the torch was added as a reminder of the Americans' value of Liberty continuing to the new Socialist era. The angular forms of the wheat and scroll may be taken from early modernist designs during the roaring twenties.


These Hammers and Gears insignia are usually used as stand-ins for the Great Seal of the UASR for brevity. The left is usually used on official decor, pins and government stationery, while the right is used for official print media such as brochures, posters or pamphlets. For more important stationery, the Great Seal in full achievement is used.

The offset asymmetry will always bug me lol

I'd have gone myself for a pure red field & an bilateral asymmetry & an achievement consisting of brotherly workers waving or marching with pure red, diagonal red/black, black [and maybe one with a Reconstruction-era Stars + Stripes ?] incorporated around the compass surrounded by the gear & grain

Thats just me tho

If it was following composition rules and evocative of the diagonally contrapositioned hammer & sickle, I'd say then the gear should be counterbalanced to right side proportional to compass diagonal leaning left
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure, because I know there's been mention of the socialist state in Palestine dispatching special agents hunt down escaped Nazi war criminals after WWII, which makes me suspect that even if Palestine isn't an ethnically Jewish/Zionist state, it probably has a significant Jewish population (hopefully with a living arrangement that's a bit more peaceable than OTL)

I imagine its a self-consciously cosmopolitan 'last-resort' 'pan-nation' of refugees from threats of annhiliation, in addition to the indigenous inhabitants, and this is founded on the Jewish & Romani DP-migrants who survived the Shoah / Porrajmos and migrated to Palestine

So flavor of Israel [ "never again" ] without the ethnoexclusivist hypocrisy & bad faith

In the Reds! political context, absent bourgeois sponsorship & imperialist skullduggery as the motive force, the Zionist Yeshuv is deluged by secular Communist or fellow-traveler Jewish refugees, and becomes an off-note 'True Democrats-esque' group of pariah weirdos in the politics of plurinational Red Palestine

Still, ideally IMO plurinational Red Palestine-Lebanon would be an autonomous republic within a Red pan-Arab federal republic; but suppose to keep 'fortress capitalism' on life-support, secular pan-Arabism has to founder on the rocks of revivified Franco-British dual-imperialist divide et impera

Otherwise, obviously 'fortress capitalism' is just directly and desultorily economically starved into surrender by the 1960 because of a near total oil export market monopoly across the uniformly Red Pan-Arabia, UASR, & USSR
 
Last edited:
The offset asymmetry will always bug me lol

I'd have gone myself for a pure red field & an bilateral asymmetry & an achievement consisting of brotherly workers waving or marching with pure red, diagonal red/black, black [and maybe one with a Reconstruction-era Stars + Stripes ?] incorporated around the compass surrounded by the gear & grain

Thats just me tho

If it was following composition rules and evocative of the diagonally contrapositioned hammer & sickle, I'd say then the gear should be counterbalanced to right side proportional to compass diagonal leaning left
I love the flag, the fact that the crest or whatever is rotated to align with the diagonal bisection is what really makes the whole thing come together.
 
The offset asymmetry will always bug me lol

I'd have gone myself for a pure red field & an bilateral asymmetry & an achievement consisting of brotherly workers waving or marching with pure red, diagonal red/black, black [and maybe one with a Reconstruction-era Stars + Stripes ?] incorporated around the compass surrounded by the gear & grain

Thats just me tho

If it was following composition rules and evocative of the diagonally contrapositioned hammer & sickle, I'd say then the gear should be counterbalanced to right side proportional to compass diagonal leaning left
Personally my slight bugbear with the UASR flag is that it uses the DDR Hammer and Compass instead of the American Communist Hammer and Gear, thus forcing the Free Socialist Council Republic of Deutschland to use the hammer and anvil.
 
Hello all, I'm currently working on the history of Palestine in Reds!.

Are there any people here who is well-acquainted with Palestinian history (specifically the Arab viewpoint), and who would be willing to help me with my research?
I would also appreciate help from anyone who knows about inter-Arab relations and Palestinian-Arabs in the US in the 1930s.

You can PM me on this forum, or send me a DM on Discord (my username is qalqulserut) - whichever is most comfortable to you.
Did you find the information on Palestine-Arabs and Inter-Arab relations you were looking for?
 
One of my pet peeves when it comes to alternate history socialist symbolism and terminology, is how often it completely erases the history and legacy of the country taken into consideration, in favour of direct or indirect emulation of the OTL Soviet Union; there's nothing inherently reactionary about the US flag, for example - in fact, it could be easily adapted to the new socialist framework, with the upper left canton displaying not just the states of the federation, but also the new African American/Native American autonomous entities.

I mean, if the US flag is a reactionary symbol, the name "America" itself might be even more reactionary: at least the former is a revolutionary symbol, rather than a term that a lot of Native American peoples might associate with genocide and oppression.
 
One of my pet peeves when it comes to alternate history socialist symbolism and terminology, is how often it completely erases the history and legacy of the country taken into consideration, in favour of direct or indirect emulation of the OTL Soviet Union; there's nothing inherently reactionary about the US flag, for example - in fact, it could be easily adapted to the new socialist framework, with the upper left canton displaying not just the states of the federation, but also the new African American/Native American autonomous entities.

I mean, if the US flag is a reactionary symbol, the name "America" itself might be even more reactionary: at least the former is a revolutionary symbol, rather than a term that a lot of Native American peoples might associate with genocide and oppression.
The abolition of nationalist symbolism is in fact, on purpose as a break from the liberal past. it's as old as the Paris Commune where they abolished the Tricolour because the Blue and White were affectations towards elements that the Communards regarded as having no place in a classless society. The Warsaw Pact used defaced liberal national flags because almost all of them were not intended to be proletarian dictatorships but rather progressive coalitions involving liberals ("people's democracy") and thus they didn't wish to completely break with the liberal nationalists.

The proper name of the UASR is the "North American Union of Socialist Council Republics", it was envisioned as, like the USSR, not a replacement of its predecessor but the nucleus for a new socialist government to unify its region (europe and asia or the USSR, North America for the UASR) only for other circumstances to limit their ambitions.

The UASR also deplores the usage of the term "state" for its constituencies as "state" in such a context is nonsense to marxists and also the state framework is an obstacle to its hoped for absorption of all of North America into itself. An ambition the NAUSCR never completely loses sight of, as seen with its absorption of Eastern Canada and Quebec and their Indigenous nations as new republics in the union without regard for the old provinces rather than forming an independent Canada.

Though with the absorption of the Canaries and Ryukyu as constituent Republics into the Union "North American" is probably not geographically accurate anymore.

Also all attempts to make the Stars and Stripes socialist are hideous and the stars and stripes themselves are vexilogically dubious. The existence of American Havana using the Stars and Stripes also makes using the same flag as it a dubious proposition for the same reason why Communist China regarded using any variation of the White Sun flag a non-starter with Taiwan's existence.

Finally, as mentioned before, the French revolutionary left hated the French tricolour, regarding it as an outmoded symbol of yesteryear's revolution to be cast into the dirt. From the Communards to the Syndicalists to the French Communist party, all wanted some variation of a red banner and to break ties with the 1789 flag which they saw as fundamentally a flag of liberal compromise. The American flag is vastly more reactionary and far less revolutionary in what it stands for than the French three colour banner and would not pass the muster for the communists here.

The Comintern of TTL is also aggressively anti-nationalist. The Comintern is sovereign and supreme over any national communist party or government, to the point of having the power to censure even the UASR and USSR in the cold war. These are not the OTL Soviets who recommended working with progressive national liberationists, these are ardent internationalist ultras who think patriotism is intrinsically suspect, at best a tool to cynically use and then discard when convenient, at worst something to crush as Romanian National Communism was subject to after the National communists in Romania went a bridge too far and brought about an "anti-counter-revolutionary" action in the country by the VOSCOM.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top