I've give this a lot of thought (and thank you for the insight!) and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Splitting up the win from the glimpses of the other players in the setting would make it feel less like a victory with an asterisk. Even putting them *after* the personal actions would probably make it less aggravating as then the very next thing you do is go to tackle the new problems.
Yeh it would have been fine as like epilogue of the issue but it immediately after beating SB kind sucks. Katie and Yara in FT is a win despite everyhting so it was fine. Same with Learning Hours was gonna tangle with the mysteries.

But seeing how we failed Towarri was just such a suckerpunch.
 
Radiant Silvergirl definitely should have been the epilogue in retrospect. Let everyone know Stockpile is getting fired then show his play. Ah well, live and learn. I am still a novice at this!
 
We did still defang Socialite Butterfly and kick Crusade's ass so hard that the
1 lost their telepath
2 were officially reprimanded
3 schismed
4 lost their blacksite prison
 
We did still defang Socialite Butterfly and kick Crusade's ass so hard that the
1 lost their telepath
2 were officially reprimanded
3 schismed
4 lost their blacksite prison
Yeh Hell WH cant interfere with us since if he did hed have to answer to other hours again since id be disobeying a direct order, which is probably why ND missions are back 1AP.

Its just Towarri becoming an enemy is such a panful loss especially with how Important the original JU was to LL.
 
I think a part of it is, while we've been extremely successful so far the stakes seem so high it feels like we have to continue to be extremely successful, so any perceived failure is taken harder than it might otherwise be?
I would agree with this. Actual roll outcomes worse than "minor success" are quite rare, because typically only rolls in the neighborhood of crit failures are unsalvageable with omake points. In a hypothetical world where there is no safety net with omake points, I could easily foresee a real mission failure occurring and having to deal with that.

But because there is a safety net, the cushioned dips in the dice will still result in meaningful swings in the battle to maintain tension, and people react accordingly. And naturally a full mission failure feels unthinkable at this point (or would massively set back all our plans).

In terms of solutions, obviously removing the safety net is a non-starter because this quest is not the type where players intentionally expect an X-COM experience of soldiering on through big defeats. But removing all tension because we usually get at least minor successes isn't good either.
 
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In terms of solutions, obviously removing the safety net is non-starter because this quest is not the type where players intentionally expect an X-COM experience of soldiering on through big defeats. But removing all tension because we usually get at least minor successes isn't good either.
Hearing you say there's little tension right after a long post about why people feel like we have no wins is kinda funny. Just goes to show you people have vastly diverging views.
 
I imagine that LL would end up as one of Yelliw Qillin's Frozen Throned puppets. Or something like that.
 
For curiosities sake, who would the prisoner be if we had chosen radiant? Would it be LL?

Nobody. Everyone had an assigned "if not selected" fate.

I imagine that LL would end up as one of Yelliw Qillin's Frozen Throned puppets. Or something like that.

Or perhaps she would be the Brainwashed Non-Cloned assistant of Socialite Butterfly, who help's her with intrigue matters.
 
Fast Pass is so damn useful though in terms of getting more heroes sooner.

Though I guess we're space constrained in the nearby future, maybe that's less important.
Eh, I really do think Fast Pass, while still useful, got fairly devalued post the change in how potency boosting worked when looking at our candidates alongside the impending cap crisis.

Since currently we are at 8/10 spots filled. We hit 10/10 with Yara and Katie based on Bitterman confirming she takes a slot.

Sunlight Knight is a himbo that we want Chatelet to turn so she can be happy, though that probably won't be for a bit. Jorogumo and Sparksurfer are on deck for potentially joining. We have 5 candidates on deck if we include Homer, 6 if the guy trapped by LA survives too. That is a lot of options pushing us past the potential cap, especially with Sparksurfer and Jorogumo likely being potentially near joins rather than ones we can keep on deck like candidates.

Our main avenues for increasing the cap in the near future are probably OID control for the Ibis base, the Apiary expansion, and probably merging with New Dawn.

ND probably provides the most spaces but there's the question of how much new space is made in practice when taking into account the people who'd also be filling them.

Where looking at the 5 people who we know about fully as candidates, Homer doesn't need any boost, Cain is our only potential P13 right now when on a solid statline already and so if we want to use the high risk character we should fully go in on the reward, and RB could maybe change things for Shelley but the Nox build made to lean into her character blurb requires all 3 potency boosts which I would push for.

I think Soraia and Song could absolutely justify Fast Pass for themselves and would be good at it, but to a decent extent I think these are also our relatively deemphasized options till the cap issue gets mitigated. I think Fast Pass is decent, but is currently outclassed by the other money costing global actions right now.
 
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Thank you for writing that, JowKeen, I found it very insightful and matching some of my own thoughts (but more eloquently said).
I think Crimson Maturity is heavy coping
Are you using "coping" in the classical sense or the memetic ("cope and seethe" etc.) sense?

because this quest is not the type where players intentionally expect an X-COM experience of soldiering on through big defeats.
It's funny you mention X-COM. Apart from it being one of my favorite series. When I first read through this quest (I only found it around the end of Issue 2), I actually was expecting a lot of hero mortality, if not total defeats. Primarily based on the opening scene where a massive amount of heroes just got slaughtered. But I see now that that was more of a way to reduce the active characters while still having a complex backstory. But yeah I kept figuring Handyman or someone was gonna die in action and then we would have to decide "Do we make a replacement for him, or do we try something new?" Obviously I have no complaints about the actual direction of the quest.
 
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I think the current system of rolls is fine, honestly. Not all rolls use the minor/moderate/major tier system, sometimes they're just straightforwardly difficult rolls with a single difficulty.

With the current system, I can definitely see there being enough risk of failure that, unless we're exceptionally lucky, we will likely still suffer a few losses before the quest ends, because holy shit we have so many enemies.

I don't get why people are so concerned about unlocking PP's further potential or whatever when we've already made multiple S-rank heroes with the current setup, and we've still got a huge list of builds someone wants to try out. The next Black Swan could be waiting in the threadmark now!
The real 'problem', as with most turn-based quests, is that we'll always have more Global options than we have global actions.

Frankly, I'm leaning towards our global actions next turn being PP/Spoonful/Legally Distinct Shields/10,000 Kicks/Run Sideways/Apiary Expansion plan. Maybe switch out Spoonful or Run Sideways for something else? But I feel like several of these are almost necessary.

Nobody. Everyone had an assigned "if not selected" fate.
That tracks, given that the Americans only got Towarri because they were trying to catch the Mysteries and Towarri had one of their tattoos because she was raised in their cult (one of their cults, or branches?).

I imagine that LL would end up as one of Yelliw Qillin's Frozen Throned puppets. Or something like that.
Same, honestly. Or maybe she'd have been forced to sit on the Throne, hanging on merely through sheer willpower??

If so, our decision to have LL go to the Frozen Throne is going to be... interesting. Perhaps Bitterman will be able to use some pre-planned material he otherwise wouldn't be able to.
 
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Eh, I really do think Fast Pass, while still useful, got fairly devalued post the change in how potency boosting worked when looking at our candidates alongside the impending cap crisis.
I would personally say Fast Pass is extremely valuable purely because we don't necessarily want or need every new hero to be boosted by the full +3, which not only would be much more expensive but also require an extra turn of investment. Fast Pass gets us a good amount of tolerance boost for cheaper than +2 from spoonfuls (if I'm understanding the new system correctly) and lets us bring that candidate online in the same turn they're boosted.

I imagine that LL would end up as one of Yelliw Qillin's Frozen Throned puppets. Or something like that.

LL would have faked her death, hardcore backslid into villainy, and then ended up being the leader of yet another secret conspiracy to have her identity revealed as a suitably dramatic moment. Trust me on this.
 
Since LL is in FT and wont be back until we complete RC which is the most difficult mission for T4 I think we can delay giving her a weapon since the mission for Last part of the issue like DF diplo wont need her to have hit.

So just wait for T5 to give her a weapon.
 
But yeah I kept figuring Handyman or someone was gonna die in action and then we would have to decide "Do we make a replacement for him, or do we try something new?" Obviously I have no complaints about the actual direction of the quest.
To be fair Handyman took a 50% shot of death in Faustian. I think we will definitely face losses in the future.
So just wait for T5 to give her a weapon.
But if we give her the weapon this turn, she can practice one kick 10000 times next turn.
 
Since LL is in FT and wont be back until we complete RC which is the most difficult mission for T4 I think we can delay giving her a weapon since the mission for Last part of the issue like DF diplo wont need her to have hit.

So just wait for T5 to give her a weapon.
My argument there is that we always are going to need to take the questline twice to get Leizi fully boosted and so it will get emphasized there somewhat as a 0 cost global action to slot in very easily while paying forward the ability to raise her to 7 hit quickly.

But more importantly, doing it for the next turn will allow it to be completed by the time the Fellowship mission is coming to roost, while we have confirmation that LA has a pretty major interest in Leizi. Where having her in the best possible spot stat wise prior to that mission seems like a good idea considering that.
 
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This isn't a firm plan, it's a goofy for fun one, but if we wanted to Max Out On Combo Finding for a Dynamite usage while not going over 20, Red Huntress + Nox + Feth Faida is 18 for an insane amount and variety of tags.
 
This isn't a firm plan, it's a goofy for fun one, but if we wanted to Max Out On Combo Finding for a Dynamite usage while not going over 20, Red Huntress + Nox + Feth Faida is 18 for an insane amount and variety of tags.
I'd be down for it. Unless we need to fight someone who needs a specific power to beat or properly punish. Like How Zeno is probably a good choice to Savings MG's by reverting to before they got FT Shards.
 
I still really really wanna do the ADHD Table, for fun, because I don't want us to completely miss out on the Cool Gadgets Mechanics that have sat by the wayside because Nora didn't win our playable character vote and we ignored Stockpile's request of our first four.
 
This isn't a firm plan, it's a goofy for fun one, but if we wanted to Max Out On Combo Finding for a Dynamite usage while not going over 20, Red Huntress + Nox + Feth Faida is 18 for an insane amount and variety of tags.
I don't know how much I trust Red Huntress Dynamite not to bite us in the ass if we keep doing it. The circumstances meant it worked out but since it seemed the scaling also pushed Ellie's normal personality down it could very easily lead to an "All Shall Love Me And Despair" situation if we get unlucky.
 
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