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Project Prometheus (Original Setting Superhero Quest)

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We can expect a Potency 10 power to be stronger than a Potency 4, but not that all aspects of a DNA sample would transfer over unless you all expect using Steadfast on a dose would make people equally as invulnerable. In fact, Steadfast is great example because he was Potency 2 and Zeno Potency 9 but it's Steadfast who allegedly has the strongest form of invulnerability on record. That's because Zeno has other stuff going on, which is the point. We can't actually be sure aspects of Memoria's power would be lost to "other stuff", much less that it would be strictly improved. That's why if we make John a teleporter I want some backbone on the power.
 
[] Wise Hunter
-[] [The Red Huntress] (6 Potency)
-[] [Daggermaw] (1 Potency)
-[] [Mister Hunch] (1 Potency)
-[] [Millions Minefield] (1 Potency)
-[] [Soldier X] (1 Potency)
-[] Potential Reductions (-3 Potency)

Clairvoyance ×2, Energy Manipulation x2,
Transformation ×2, Enhanced Senses ×2,
Fitness ×2, Enhanced Strength ×1,
Enhanced Speed ×1, Invisibility ×1,
Regeneration x1

Tbh, the original plan was only 9 potency and I am not really sure if adding Soldier X is the best move. On the other hand, Soldier X has Regeneration and a lack of defense/healing is one of the flaws of most Huntress builds.

Either way, this is a Huntress plan more focused on physic/support Huntress as it has both the synergies Wolong mentioned:
Clairvoyance + Energy Manipulation
Clairvoyance + Enhanced Strength

Quick list of benefits:
● Focused on Clairvoyance, Energy Manipulation and Transformation, the tags likely to be related to the Huntress Scaling Ability (Millions energy absorbtion/storage might also enhance it)
● Has both utility and combat applications
● Faithful to the broad "hunting" theme (Daggermaw has predatory animal powers, Millions and Hunch are about intel gathering and setting traps, the only hunting skills the OG lacked)
● Tend towards a strategic/support-based approach that works better with a high OPS candidate like John
● Transformation + indirect approach to combat may help hide John's identity (he is a well known unpowered employee of Justice Unlimited after all)
● Using Red Huntress + Clairvoyance x2 + Enhanced Senses ×2 guarantees some tracking ability

Drawbacks:
● x1 keywords might not manifest.
● Relies too much on some limited gimmicks (Huntress Scaling Ability, possible synergies, an indirect powerset)
● Not as useful as a full utility build or as powerful as a full combat one.
● Might end up too similar to the original Red Huntress (at which point having multiple new heroes with powers similar to deceased ones gets suspicious?)
 
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We should actually take a bit of time to look at the holes in our current roster. Obviously stat wise we're missing someone specialized in Ops, but what else:

Black Swan: Extreme firepower, extreme mobility, and indestructible. For anything that we need a hammer for, she's the hammer. In terms of force concentration goes she's unbeatable. The main issue is actually just that she has to concern herself with friendly fire because she's too lethal. She's also susceptible to psychic attacks but we'll file that away for now.
Leizi: Deadly in close combat, but horribly squishy. Her power only works in CQC range.
Menagerie Witch: Very versatile powerset. Summons can do a lot of things and are a source of chaff combatants, but are a bit lacking in raw power. However, she also has the physique of a 15 year old girl so she's also very squishy.
Handyman: Currently the tankiest hero we have besides Black Swan, but power is also very useful for espionage and being sneaky. Can act as our frontline in a pinch but it's not actually what he's best at.
Chatelet: Can generate barriers. This has obvious applications on the defensive as well for crowd control/shaping the battlefield/zoning. Barriers have some limited offensive capability, but overall probably the least lethal of our current lineup.

Honestly looking at the current roster I'm actually more and more inclined towards having another defense specialist. A teleporter doesn't actually do that much for us at the moment; Black Swan already has relativistic flight so teleportation is redundant and Maddie and Opale both kind of want to stay out of the thick of combat so it's only really useful for playing keep-away. Our two close-quarters combatants would benefit from increased mobility but Leizi is still squishy and Handyman can be used in ambushes. Having someone specialized in defence (other than Chatelet) should help since it would reduce concerns about friendly fire and free up Black Swan to fight a bit more aggressively, and of course helps protect our squishiest heroes.

The other gap is that we actually lack quite a bit in firepower if Black Swan isn't around.
 
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Hey @Bitterman what are the girls who already turned into ice monsters and the Elisabeths doing ? Are they living in the Apiary and getting treated ? Did we convince the three Elisabeths we met to leave YQ's side ?
 
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The Problem with Defense Specialist is that John just doesnt have the hit to really make it reach the highest level. Apart from lacking Utility, Johns stats are already specced for Operations and Rep so its fasr better to boost those stats than forcing an old man who has no combat skill whatsover in the front lines.
 
StarSingerBlue said:
Hey @Bitterman what are the girls who already turned into ice monsters and the Elisabeths doing ? Are they living in the Apiary and getting treated ? Did we convince the three Elisabeths we met to leave YQ's side ?
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I dont think so, since we didnt go loud and left afterwards, I doubt we could convince them. We had just met them, their Senior MaGi was still there and we dont Exactly have enough evidence to rattled their fate isntantly. They are most likely still with YQ, that can change as soon as we come back knocking with our BS and EB shaped wrecking balls.
 
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BrainInAJar said:
@Bitterman Are we guaranteed a combat teleporter at Potency 10 as long as we use the tag?
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Depends on the build you're going for. I take that into consideration as well as the other powers you're throwing in.
ScorpioSting said:
@Bitterman The Clairvoyance/Enhanced Strength combo that Wolong got started on in the PREVAIL fill-in is separate from the Telekinesis one from this issue, y/n
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You don't know! But it would be weird if I gave it to you here as it was another option all together!
StarSingerBlue said:
Hey @Bitterman what are the girls who already turned into ice monsters and the Elisabeths doing ? Are they living in the Apiary and getting treated ? Did we convince the three Elisabeths we met to leave YQ's side ?
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They're hanging out at their old base near The Frozen Throne where it's safe to keep the goldnine. Things are kind of static right now as YQ has gone into seclusion.
 
Wing101r said:
The Problem with Defense Specialist is that John just doesnt have the hit to really make it reach the highest level. Apart from lacking Utility, Johns stats are already specced for Operations and Rep so its fasr better to boost those stats than forcing an old man who has no combat skill whatsover in the front lines.
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Well, my first preference is still for some of technology focused support power. It's just broadly versatile and should hopefully cover for our Ops deficit, and already lines up with the character's existing skillset.
 
Arcus said:
Honestly looking at the current roster I'm actually more and more inclined towards having another defense specialist.
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I would like to note that Can't Touch This is a teleporter that's a defense specialist by dint of how Invulnerability and Teleportation interact, basically using the same principle as Zeno's powerset of never allowing an enemy's attacks to actually reach whoever John Henry is linked to.

In addition to this, teleportation and iSpy's powers allows for rapid repositioning of both friend and foe, as while Black Swan can move really fast, her relativistic flight has conditions that need to be fulfilled before use to avoid massive collateral damage, while the rest of the team can't move at supersonic speeds at all.
 
After reading through this discussion, I am abandoning plan GOD FIST. I'm sorry DBZ warrior, you will have your time in the spotlight some other day.

Personally, I'm on board with @LucidProp's previously mentioned Can't Touch This, @ScorpioSting's Bellwether (though maybe with Eastwood shifted off) and @ThaTrueRealmWalk's Master Of Water, (though with Frostbite taken out for Crimson Soprano+Mister Hunch for more support.)
 
Wing101r said:
The Problem with Defense Specialist is that John just doesnt have the hit to really make it reach the highest level. Apart from lacking Utility, Johns stats are already specced for Operations and Rep so its fasr better to boost those stats than forcing an old man who has no combat skill whatsover in the front lines.
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We know from Black Swan that the best way of increasing REP is having a really dangerous power. Or a power that makes someone a better leader, and a teleporter fits neither. And I think we are in bigger REP hole than an OPS hole.
LucidProp said:
I would like to note that Can't Touch This is a teleporter that's a defense specialist by dint of how Invulnerability and Teleportation interact, basically using the same principle as Zeno's powerset of never allowing an enemy's attacks to actually reach whoever John Henry is linked to.

In addition to this, teleportation and iSpy's powers allows for rapid repositioning of both friend and foe, as while Black Swan can move really fast, her relativistic flight has conditions that need to be fulfilled before use to avoid massive collateral damage, while the rest of the team can't move at supersonic speeds at all.
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I find it really possible that with iSpy we might lose the ability to bring others in return for a combat power, since iSpy's power is not really a directly supportive one. We might get someone who can see through the eyes of others and immediately and instantly teleport in their field of view, but not bring others, which would kind of break the support thing. I might be fearmongering though, the answer was really uncertain to me.
 
BrainInAJar said:
I find it really possible that with iSpy we might lose the ability to bring others in return for a combat power, since iSpy's power is not really a directly supportive one. We might get someone who can see through the eyes of others and immediately and instantly teleport in their field of view, but not bring others, which would kind of break the support thing. I might be fearmongering though, the answer was really uncertain to me.
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I was considering replacing iSpy with Chatroom for the Ally Empowerment tag, yeah. Though, it feels like the ability to teleport someone else is one of those secondary powers mentioned in the update like how Mona doesn't have Enhanced Speed but can go supersonic.
 
BrainInAJar said:
We know from Black Swan that the best way of increasing REP is having a really dangerous power. Or a power that makes someone a better leader, and a teleporter fits neither. And I think we are in bigger REP hole than an OPS hole.
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Rep isn't that straightforward to get.
Black Swan's REP not only comes from being really powerful, but also from being fairly personable, having a cool (fake) backstory and a bonus from defeating Scarlet Maturity and thus being on everyone's lips.

Radiant Silvergirl was nearly as powerful as Mona but Rep was one of her worst stats.

John will be good at Rep because he has a fair amount of experience navigating the hero world and can probably sell the "wise older mentor" archetype very well.
 
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LucidProp said:
I was considering replacing iSpy with Chatroom for the Ally Empowerment tag, yeah. Though, it feels like the ability to teleport someone else is one of those secondary powers mentioned in the update like how Mona doesn't have Enhanced Speed but can go supersonic.
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Is teleporting others really a secondary power? You don't need to use teleporting effectively.
 
Arcus said:
Honestly looking at the current roster I'm actually more and more inclined towards having another defense specialist.
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Honestly, this is why I support @Pawn Lelouch 's plan since it has Bulwark who could put up barriers next dissimilar to the shield generators, as well as Steadfast which is there for thread's peace of mind that he won't just die :V

Anyways while I overall want a support specialist for John, I honestly don't disagree with Arcus' assessment. In the words of the update, I do think we need a invincible bruiser, and while E-B Rock module could help with that, I really don't want to over-rely on that one power-up and have Noelle be our tank forever. I'm fine with relying on it for now, but in that case, I want our next metahuman to be an actual tank.
 
Arcus said:
Honestly looking at the current roster I'm actually more and more inclined towards having another defense specialist. A teleporter doesn't actually do that much for us at the moment; Black Swan already has relativistic flight so teleportation is redundant and Maddie and Opale both kind of want to stay out of the thick of combat so it's only really useful for playing keep-away. Our two close-quarters combatants would benefit from increased mobility but Leizi is still squishy and Handyman can be used in ambushes. Having someone specialized in defence (other than Chatelet) should help since it would reduce concerns about friendly fire and free up Black Swan to fight a bit more aggressively, and of course helps protect our squishiest heroes.

The other gap is that we actually lack quite a bit in firepower if Black Swan isn't around.
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For firepower, I imagine EB should be a solid equalizer there if nothing else. Not enough for our long term frontline needs but a very solid stopgap.

Where wrt defense specialization, I do believe that the battlefield control of the Bulwark + Fast Track combo should help with the Operations deficit off of the battlefield control aspect, while helping with mobility and generally making everyone less squishy. Memoria powers help with mobility and try to make things less squishy but they are fundamentally less reliable on that front due to less speed for reactions and no passive defenses they can set up.

In some ways they can be more flexible, but I would put it as less good at the specific defense specialist role at this tolerance level due to what powers it can slot.
 
BrainInAJar said:
Is teleporting others really a secondary power? You don't need to use teleporting effectively.
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Come to think of it, Memoria didn't have Ally Empowerment and he was able to pull his friends out of danger just fine, and iSpy can tag anyone she wants regardless of allegiance, so I'm no longer worried about not being able to do that with "Can't Touch This".
 
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LucidProp said:
Come to think of it, Memoria didn't have Ally Empowerment and he was able to pull his friends out of danger just fine, and iSpy can tag anyone she wants regardless of allegiance, so I'm no longer worried about not being able to do that with "Can't Touch This".
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I already addressed this:
BrainInAJar said:
In fact, Steadfast is great example because he was Potency 2 and Zeno Potency 9 but it's Steadfast who allegedly has the strongest form of invulnerability on record. That's because Zeno has other stuff going on, which is the point. We can't actually be sure aspects of Memoria's power would be lost to "other stuff", much less that it would be strictly improved
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BrainInAJar said:
I already addressed this:
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And we know Bitterman takes our discussions about what we want to see into account. I sincerely doubt he'll do a "gotcha!" moment without warning us at least considering his stance against trap options.

The idea that if we make a build that it'll somehow not have its main function despite the chosen keywords having a reasonable interaction (Memoria's Clairvoyance and Telsportation and iSpy's Clairvoyance) is very fear-mongery unless the GM outright says it won't work.
 
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LucidProp said:
I would like to note that Can't Touch This is a teleporter that's a defense specialist by dint of how Invulnerability and Teleportation interact, basically using the same principle as Zeno's powerset of never allowing an enemy's attacks to actually reach whoever John Henry is linked to.

In addition to this, teleportation and iSpy's powers allows for rapid repositioning of both friend and foe, as while Black Swan can move really fast, her relativistic flight has conditions that need to be fulfilled before use to avoid massive collateral damage, while the rest of the team can't move at supersonic speeds at all.
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I don't know, I'm just nowhere as optimistic about teleportation being a silver bullet as you are.

For example, there's the question of how involved the teleportation of allies is for the user. The most conservative scenario I can see is that to be able to track and teleport multiple individuals in combat time would require inhuman levels of multitasking and sensory processing. It probably won't be restricted to the point of uselessness but I suspect there'll be quite a few limitations.

And in the case of our heaviest hitter it's kind of superfluous. She's still the fastest metahuman in the city.
 
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EternalObserver said:
I'm fine with relying on it for now, but in that case, I want our next metahuman to be an actual tank.
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If we manage to get Yara during Hero Worship as a Candidate I suspect she's going to be the next to get empowered, but if we have the cash and want to delay our super-psychic to the middle of Issue 4 instead of the beginning of Issue 4, we can get one of the candidates from Cenotaph empowered alongside her and make them our tank.
 
Arcus said:
I don't know, I'm just nowhere as optimistic about teleportation being a silver bullet as you are.

For example, there's the question of how involved the teleportation of allies is for the user. The most conservative scenario I can see is that to be able to track and teleport multiple individuals in combat time would require inhuman levels of multitasking and sensory processing. It probably won't be restricted to the point of uselessness but I suspect there'll be quite a few limitations.

And in the case of our heaviest hitter it's kind of superfluous. She's still the fastest metahuman in the city.
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It'll likely be one of those secondary powers that isn't listed, like how Multiplex is able to transform into inanimate objects without losing his mind from the fact that he suddenly doesn't have a human brain.

Yes, Mona is fast, but the rest of the team isn't. The way stats work so far is only those present in a scene and involved in that plan gets their stats rolled together for checks. If the rest of the team can't keep up with Mona, then we'll be using her stats alone.

Having a teleporter linked to her senses is a much more economical way of keeping the team together for that than say, giving everyone enhanced speed or flight.
 
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LucidProp said:
And we know Bitterman takes our discussions about what we want to see into account. I sincerely doubt he'll do a "gotcha!" moment without warning us at least considering his stance against trap options.

The idea that if we make a build that it'll somehow not have its main function despite the chosen keywords having a reasonable interaction (Memoria's Clairvoyance and Telsportation and iSpy's Clairvoyance) is very fear-mongery unless the GM outright says it won't work.
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These quotes currently live rent free in my head as of this vote:
Bitterman said:
It's more a monkey's paw situation. You'll get what you asked for . . . but maybe not what you wanted.
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Bitterman said:
Depends on the build you're going for. I take that into consideration as well as the other powers you're throwing in.
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