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Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle]

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Krazo said:
The question is if she will try to expand Khepri powers...
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They will need to repair-heal QA for that. She was physically crippled by Scion during deployment to prevent her getting up to any shenanigans. Which severely limited the breadth of her available powers.
And for that they will need either someone at Abidan level with very specific set of powers or Queen Shaper.
 
I wonder if Taylor will teach Shardspeak to Charity/Eithan/Lindon? I imagine it might be useful to communicate faster, though probably the only Cradle natives who could learn it are Dream artists / Heart icon users, people with pseudo-presences like Lindon or Northstrider, or people who have enhanced information processing abilities like Eithan.
 
It would be fun to see Hera-QA creating Authority Math. Since for Shards it's much easier to understand and it very much should be possible. Authorities are infinities with very complex functions but it doesn't mean you can't compare them or can't solve their interactions through math - since their interactions are predictable even if with some fuzziness.
 
Random extra musing. Malice's remnant got left behind right? I wonder what the odds are that Taylor or Mercy will find themselves fighting a Shen-collared Malice remnant in the future. For extra angst.
 
Lexical said:
Random extra musing. Malice's remnant got left behind right? I wonder what the odds are that Taylor or Mercy will find themselves fighting a Shen-collared Malice remnant in the future. For extra angst.
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There's a good chance that Malice's remnant was annihilated by the Weeping Dragon's breath (emphasis mine):
derivativeoflife said:
"Mercy," she said, her voice carried to us through wind and dream aura. "Keep the family safe. I love you."

"M-mother?" asked Mercy with a trembling voice.

"Go."

Shen's barrier broke. As shadows swallowed the world, my last sight was of the blazing star between the Weeping Dragon's jaws beginning to erupt.
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Arcman said:
You know, Mercy kind of indirectly killed her mother here too by staying to save the golds. Canon didn't repeat, but it did rhyme.
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Oh absolutely, this is the kind of loss that'll have them second guessing themselves and wondering "what-if" until kingdom come. Mercy will blame herself not just for sticking around for the golds, but for using the arrowhead on the Wandering Titan rather than Sesh or Shen. Taylor will blame herself for letting Eithan talk her into not using the hand of the slumbering wraith as a distraction.

What if, What if, What if. If anything can make Mercy doubt herself and her worldview, something like this will be it. Unfortunately, time marches onwards.
Adistridos said:
There's a good chance that Malice's remnant was annihilated by the Weeping Dragon's breath (emphasis mine):
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Yeah, it's not clear, usually when someone dies their remnant takes a few seconds to form. Add on to that even when Monarchs are launching killing blows at each other they usually can't deal enough damage to destroy an enemy monarch so completely that a remnant doesn't form.

It's not inconceivable that between a combination of the sheer power of the Weeping Dragon's breath and Malice already being on her last legs that she was damaged enough a remnant couldn't form, or for the breath to last long enough that a remnant did form, and that remnant was too weak to defend itself and perished immediately. But I'd say it's far from a given that the remnant died from that attack.

Of course, the remnant definitely wouldn't be able to stand up against 2 dreadgods, so it almost certainly perished in short order unless Shen yoinked it for himself, either to make into a weapon or to collar up and use as one.
 
It's alive!

derivativeoflife said:
enjoy the next five chapters
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(Counts how many chapters have been released since this author's note)

😢

An amazing arc though! Very satisfying to see this payoff.

If Malice isn't dead and she shows up after the dragon monarch attacks, the soul oath will do interesting things to his spirit.

If she is dead, then eh, she was never my favorite character. Her end in the actual series was fitting. This just gives her a slightly better aftertaste. She was still the same cruel ruler in life.

Taylor and Mercy and Charity will certainly have their work cut out defending Moongravw though.

Hope Real Life is going better! Thanks for the chapters!
 
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NemiTheNen said:
given how she was written in the final book. Just...flanderized and ugh
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I don't think Malice was flanderized. She truly didn't want them dead, just gone, and was even willing to let Mercy go with them. I'd argue her last true interaction with Mercy was her most nuanced.

The problem is that what Malice wants and what the gang wants are fundamentally irreconcilable, which forces them into increasingly extreme circumstances. Just look at how unyielding normal people who want different things can be; then, stack centuries of ruling a continent and supernatural levels of willpower on top of that. Not to mention the fact that Malice was never going to agree, as was set up by the end of Reaper. When you live for centuries at the top of the world's hierarchy, and can use your "perfect and inviolable" willpower on yourself, it's shocking that all monarchs, sages and heralds don't turn out like Malice.
 
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Tylansimov said:
Damn, Malice dying is a real big divergence. At least Mercy won't have to kill her mom?
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Technically, it was Yerin

Not as much as you think, a main problem presented by Malice is that she was the final hurdle for Mercy to fully advance

As in Malice was actively psychologically breaking down Mercy to submit. Without her doing that Mercy just might fully develop faster amd finish Malice's final wish by removing the Dreadgods and kicking out the remaining Monarchs

There are many what ifs in this chapter and entire battle bur one thing is made clear, the Dreadgods need to go. They are too powerful and too destructive with active minds that purposely cause such destruction

The Monarchs who continue this farce by staying in the world because they would rather rule it are just continuing the problem

What is the bigger divergence is the remain of Sesh who per WoG is the most powerful Monarch in this generation with Shen as the most versatile

Sadly, there is no more back up Monarch as Fury ascended and Ashwind has no Monarch to protect then. Charity and Mercy needs to step up and Taylor with the backing of QA Crown Icon can hopefully lift up. Also with whatever Eithan is cooking up

Mercy making lots of friends from other Monarchs really did a lot for future things
Cyberlord4444 said:
Alternatively
Taylor: I made one Dreadgod run and another do my bidding, are you sure you're still on the winning side?
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8ME are completely Mercenary and knows not to fuck with super powers like when Dreadgod Lindon was abound

They are also the Monarch faction who are approving of the removal of Monarchs to remove Dreadgods
TheBarrometer said:
The other angle to remember, is that for Eithan's plans to go ahead he and his friends / students need time.

Who knows what bullshit Eithan is going to pull out of his arse, but he's going to have the full resources of the Akura to do it.
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In Wintersteel, Eithan did point out how he had multiple plans depending on who wins the Uncrowned and who the Penance was used for

So he probably also has some things going on I the background for these events
Tylansimov said:
I'm not sure we're super close. Canon seems to have something like a 2 or 3 year timeskip during Reaper (after the Emperor comes to the Valley and before they return to explore the Labyrinth).
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I don't think it was more than 2 years since Lindon was stuck in the world for 2 years until the 7 year festival in Sacred Valley

So yeah, Lindon's journey started and ended with said festival so we have a timeline of 7 years for the entire series
Fencer said:
Also and I mean this very seriously Eithan better fucking advance to sage because he owes it to Mercy and Taylor to throw his full effort behind this now.
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At the very least I can see Eithan choosing the Broom and Oracle Icons but not Death

He's gonna be so vindicated if he sees Mercy manifest the Joy Icon, proving that it does exists
viralstitch said:
Northstrider hates dragons but is a coward and a traitor
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We don't really know what happened with Northstrider especially with Shen being that bullshit and NS knows he cannot be trusted with any deal

We already saw that a Monarch can be trapped when Northstrider did it to Emriss in canon
Lexical said:
Random extra musing. Malice's remnant got left behind right?
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Remnant and body if it wasn't destroyed by the Weeping Dragon's breath (the strongest Striker technique in Cradle)

Can be useful since both are powerful catalysts
 
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TypicalVelocity said:
The problem is that what Malice wants and what the gang wants are fundamentally irreconcilable, which forces them into increasingly extreme circumstances.
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Going back to what a previous poster said about Malice's (likely) Archlord revelation, something like 'I protect the Akura clan' or 'I protect my family' would explain much about her actions.

She views that can't protect anyone on Cradle by Ascending, and so she does not. And then everything else cascades from there. Not to justify anything, but I think it's understandable that she does what she does.
 
It's a natural end state of the cultivator scenario if there's top tiers that are hanging around instead of ascending. Most cultivation worlds suffer a lot more casual cruelty and barbarism from their adepts because ultimately they don't give a shit about mortals/lower level cultivators. Here people actually want things in the world besides just enough resources to get to the next tier. Some of the top tier cultivators actually give a shit about random villagers. The problem then becomes that they're not the best at stepping aside for new management, or adapting new long term objectives.
 
Zoolimar said:
They will need to repair-heal QA for that. She was physically crippled by Scion during deployment to prevent her getting up to any shenanigans. Which severely limited the breadth of her available powers.
And for that they will need either someone at Abidan level with very specific set of powers or Queen Shaper.
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I think that we're seeing that QA is doing this to herself through connection to Taylor. Now that she's touched The Way through the Crown Icon, QA may even be able to accelerate this process. Though they are also braiding themselves together:
derivativeoflife said:
We'd been merged too thoroughly to separate completely anymore. Her understanding of authority and my understanding of the Crown Icon were all mixed up together, little bits and pieces of each other that couldn't be pulled apart without damage.
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Taylor has always integrated certain aspects of QA into her Path, as the connection has been there though with the wider connection and tighter integration, will the two of them add a hunger aspect? I can't think of a hungrier thing than the Entities. If they do, will the processing power that QA brings be able to gather Hunger Aura before the dreadgods can?
 
viralstitch said:
The Way through the Crown Icon, QA may even be able to accelerate this process. Though they are also braiding themselves together:
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She just needs to find a way to integrate the concept of a Crown to healing

There is a reason why some Icons are more suited than the other like how the Oracle Icon isn't good for controlling space and portals but can easily divine locations

viralstitch said:
will the two of them add a hunger aspect? I can't think of a hungrier thing than the Entities
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Taylor is too far in her Path to make such a change but even so what defined Taylor and QA are pretty clear, the Shadows where she did all her achievements, the Crown that rules over those below and the Oracle that sees through all she rules over

It is like how Malice defined the Netherworld Empress

Her successor should understand the depth of shadow madra, so the spirit of the Netherworld Empress reflected the Shadow Icon.

Her successor should feel the burden of rule, so the Netherworld Empress wore the nobility of the Crown Icon.

Her successor should fight with power unparalleled, so the body of the Netherworld Empress carried the Strength Icon.

Her successor should see far and strike from a distance, so the Netherworld Empress had the sight of the Bow Icon.
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In terms or rulership, Taylor actually succeeds more in who Akura Malice is, even if she doesn't embody physical power

The main difference is that this Taylor knows how to let go of power for the sake of a better world

There is also the fact that even if not the same, Malice wanted Mercy to be better than she could ever be
To name her direct descendants, Malice looked into the future and highlighted what she saw as their greatest feature. Not all Akura clan members got this treatment, Mercy knew; at some point, naming family members after virtues had become tradition rather than actual prophecy.

But now, with Dross and Emriss to sort the memories she'd absorbed from her mother, she saw Malice in her visions.

Surrounded by dark statues, Malice sought her son. She saw him as a sculpture of shadow, laughing as he struck dragons from the sky.

He exulted in battle, and his anger became a sword to destroy the family's enemies. She named him Fury.

His daughter was a dark statue of her own, surrounded by owls, who wore a cold mask. Malice looked closer and saw the girl spreading messages and monitoring the well being of the people, uniting them to stand against the powers of the wilderness. The Monarch named her granddaughter Charity.

Mercy saw her mother name Justice, Pride, and several other family members. She began to wonder if Malice had really left all these memories behind or if Emriss was adding a few stolen from somewhere else.

Finally, she came to her own vision.

Mercy was only a baby, still wailing, when Malice looked into her future. She saw her youngest daughter with a broad smile clear even on the dark statues in the World of Night. She healed, she laughed, and she cried for the sake of others.

And, in the end, Malice saw her daughter as another light rising over the dark mountains of the Akura clan.

Malice leaned back, satisfied, and let her World of Night fade. She looked down to the baby in herarms and named her.

She would be a light to complement the shadows. The Mercy to counterbalance the family's Malice.

Where the Monarch failed, her daughter would bring joy.
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Denty said:
Taylor is too far in her Path to make such a change but even so what defined Taylor and QA are pretty clear, the Shadows where she did all her achievements, the Crown that rules over those below and the Oracle that sees through all she rules over
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I'd argue taylor's path is already pretty darn close to covering some aspect of hunger---her endless swarm already eats things "till there's nothing left".
 
Denty said:
Taylor is too far in her Path to make such a change but even so what defined Taylor and QA are pretty clear, the Shadows where she did all her achievements, the Crown that rules over those below and the Oracle that sees through all she rules over
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I doubt it's that hard to add new elements to your path. Yerin added Blood to hers at Herald.
 
So I mostly enjoyed the recent arc. However I did struggle a bit with how badly everything went. I was thinking about it and the fact that over the last few years I have had greater issues when things go significantly badly for the protagonist in a story. I realized that my primary reading material over the last several years has shifted to fan fiction or other forms of serial fiction.

So in the past, when I was reading a relatively complete story, if there was a downswing and the protagonist got slammed, I just kept reading and got to the upswing fairly quickly. However when the next chapter is potentially weeks or months away, having a chapter, or multiple chapters, where everything goes to crap is much more impactful. I'm not saying it a problem or a issue, I understand that conflict and failure is important in a story. Mostly just wanted to share my thoughts on how these kind of plot developments have greater impact in a serial story.
 
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Dragon_352 said:
I'd argue taylor's path is already pretty darn close to covering some aspect of hunger---her endless swarm already eats things "till there's nothing left".
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CedeTheBees said:
I doubt it's that hard to add new elements to your path. Yerin added Blood to hers at Herald.
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Except that for Yerin she has been connected with her Bloodshadow for most of her life and experienced its nature for her Path when she cloned herself. Add that Bloodshadows are specifically made to combine with the user in the new Herald fusion made by Red Faith

When manifesting an Icon, it is very important to understand the significance of your madra and to sense it deeply. Equally important is some kind of technique to regularly train your willpower. For years. An exercise that pushes your focus and concentration ever further, and that most people would give up or abandon for easier trails…. . . "Now, the specific Icon you manifest depends not only on the nature of your madra currently, but on a concept that has always been core to your identity. Even in childhood."
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This goes double for a Sage where the unity of th meaning their Madra with the concept they are tied with

It's a point why Lindon was wracking his brain in how to connect Blackflame, Pure and Hunger Madra at the end of Wintersteel to manifest his Void Icon

Yerin In comparison only manifested the Death Icon after her repeated understanding of Death with her Blood and Sword Madra

Taylor in comparison has already passed that stage in unifying the meaning of her Path itself to tie it with who she is in the yes of the Way

Adding another Madra type doesn't really add anything beyond the powerlevel memes, there is already a Shard backed Authority there as a powerup for Taylor
 
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Denty said:
Taylor in comparison has already passed that stage in unifying the meaning of her Path itself to tie it with who she is in the yes of the Way

Adding another Madra type doesn't really add anything beyond the powerlevel memes, there is already a Shard backed Authority there as a powerup for Taylor
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TBH Due to the bleed through and broader connection between Queenie and Taylor I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up sharing each others understanding and Way.
 
TypicalVelocity said:
I don't think Malice was flanderized. She truly didn't want them dead, just gone, and was even willing to let Mercy go with them. I'd argue her last true interaction with Mercy was her most nuanced.
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Technically, Malice did want them dead the moment they continued their plan to force out the Monarchs out so that the Dreadgods would permanently leave
Rage bubbled up in her heart, dark and ugly, and she returned her perception to normal time. "Kneel," Malice ordered.

And she released her own Netherworld Empress.

The image of the Empress shattered the ceiling above her as it loomed like her shadow. The technique enhanced her willpower, pushing it down on each of them.

Strong they may have been, but they were her subjects. In her domain.

And she was still a Monarch.

One by one, they crumpled under her authority.

Yerin was the only one who remained on her feet, though she bit her lip and cycled her madra to its limit to remain so. Nonetheless, it would cost her in concentration to carry the weight of Malice's will.

Still holding her daughter's arm in an iron grip, Malice glared over the others. "When I am finished with you, no one will remember you ever existed at all."

First, she had to disable her daughter. She drove a solidified sword of shadow into Mercy's chest.

Bloodline armor shattered as it formed, though it did block Malice's first attack. Before she could strike again, she saw an incoming shadow from the future. Yerin, leaping for her.

Malice weaved out of the way and struck at Mercy again.

This time, Mercy caught the blade in one gauntlet. With a burst of strength worthy of her Herald advancement, she broke Malice's grip.

Malice could wrestle for a hold again, but she was tired of fighting like a mortal. Shadow burst from her and tore her own floating castle apart. It was time to remind the entire world who Akura Malice was.

If it cost her some rebellious children, that was a cheap price to pay.
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A main point of the final scene is to show how much the Malice years ago who was a hero fell to what she was in canon due to complacency and the normal state of how those in power want to keep it as you point out
Mercy remembered Malice punishing her in front of the entire clan. The horror she'd felt when she realized that Malice had knowingly allowed the Dreadgods to exist, just to preserve her own power. The lies, the
manipulation, the betrayal.

And she remembered the echo of Malice that remained in the labyrinth.

That woman was a hero. She'd set out to carve her family a place in a world hostile to them. She had created a safe haven for the weak.

Then she'd let safety make her complacent. She had grown arrogant, and afraid of losing what she had. She lost sight of those she'd been working for.

Malice had become a poison, harming the very people she set out to save.
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It's even the same thing pointed out for Northstrider on how he started his Path wanting to force the Abidan to deal with the Dreadgods of Cradle but years and years of power had him give out excuses after excuses on why he is still staying
Over time, Lindon had Consumed quite a few of Northstrider's memories. He knew the Monarch better than even Lindon himself had ever realized.

Northstrider had justified his position a million different ways, but the truth remained: the man was simply afraid to ascend.
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It's the reason why Northstrider's Sage Echo called himself pathetic

In the end Northstrider was just afraid of being weak in the Heavens and turned away from his initial goal of removing the Dreadgods

Lexical said:
Oh absolutely, this is the kind of loss that'll have them second guessing themselves and wondering "what-if" until kingdom come. Mercy will blame herself not just for sticking around for the golds, but for using the arrowhead on the Wandering Titan rather than Sesh or Shen. Taylor will blame herself for letting Eithan talk her into not using the hand of the slumbering wraith as a distraction.

What if, What if, What if. If anything can make Mercy doubt herself and her worldview, something like this will be it. Unfortunately, time marches onwards.
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Truthfully this was already answered in canon in how Mercy views this
"Will you help us defeat the Dreadgods?"
Mercy lifted her head and gave an earnest plea.

For a moment, Malice was stunned. That was more spine than she had expected out of her compassionate daughter.

But that resolve was aimed in the wrong direction. Malice gave a scornful laugh. "Of course not! Don't you see how much suffering the world has endured since the tournament? I wasn't the one who made it that way! That was your friends."

Mercy nodded. "It has been bad. But we can make it better!"

"Can you even comprehend how many people have lost their lives? The world was better before all this chaos."

"Better for who?"

Malice was tired of all this back-and-forth. In fact, her anger burned hotter than she expected.

With Strings of Shadow, she grabbed her daughter and slammed her to the floor. "Why do you think you understand anything? You want me to bow to an ignorant child because he has stolen the power of the Dreadgods?
I was ruling the world before his grandfather was born!"

Malice had begun raising her voice, but so what? It felt good to scream, and she deserved it. "You think I wanted to leave the Dreadgods around? You think I like risking my life to push them away whenever they act up, for the sake of Golds who don't even know who I am? I hate them! But this
is the world, Mercy! Wake up!"

The world rippled with the force of that last command. It wasn't quite a Sage working, but Malice's will was strong enough that it almost became one. Mercy needed to see the truth.

(...)

"We don't want to fight you, Mother. Even Lindon doesn't. He wanted me to come here and resolve things peacefully."

Of course he did. He might be able to crush her with raw strength, but that didn't mean she couldn't do some damage first. Power only became leverage when you knew how to use it.

Malice sighed. "I know what you think of me, and I know I may tend to be spiteful and a touch…tyrannical. But that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Let me return this to you, Mercy: revolution always costs blood. Do you know
how many people will die in this change of the world? Do you know how many people have already died?"

Mercy's face clouded, so Malice pressed her advantage. "Tell your friends to ascend instead. You can even go with them, if you insist on leaving me. I know Lindon is stuck here at the moment, but we can certainly figure out ways around that."

Malice didn't know any ways around that restriction, but a solution probably existed. It must be easier than reaching the level of Monarchs in less than a decade, which Lindon had already done.

"I can't do that, Mother," Mercy said sadly. "I can't leave when I could have helped."
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Mercy is very nice and would always try to help but even in this fic, Taylor points out that Mercy is not naive

She knows the danger that she brings by choosing the path to save people, she knows of sacrifices that needs to be made for a better tomorrow for even the weakest person

It's just that she would always pick the path that would be better to save more, and removing the Dreadgods or in this case saving more of the Golds and other fighters are the choices that can be reasoned out as the reason why her mother died here

Even then it's not as if Shen literally joined forces with the Dreadgods and set up a war in the their empire because he wants to rule the world. To which said Dreadgods only existed because the Monarchs who knows the effect of their existence, refuses to leave due to not wanting to lose the power they have built
 
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Denty said:
Technically, Malice did want them dead the moment they continued their plan to force out the Monarchs out so that the Dreadgods would permanently leave
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You're starting at the end of their confrontation in Waybound. Malice knew what they wanted by Dreadgod which is why she agreed to work with Shen to force them out. Yet, in spite of that, Malice didn't want them dead.

Mercy chewed her lower lip. "You're not going to kill him, are you?" "That's not the solution I would prefer," Malice said honestly. She would rather bind Lindon and Yerin with so many oaths that they couldn't so much as inhale without her permission, then use them as weapons against the other Monarchs before finally shipping them up for the heavens to deal with."

Just before the scene you're quoting Malice literally says she'd let them leave, that Mercy could go with them, and that she would even help Lindon with the fact that he couldn't ascend but Mercy rejects the offer. This is why I mentioned the fact that what they wanted was incompatible and was forcing them into more extreme situations.

Mercy's face clouded so Malice pressed her advantage. "Tell your friends to ascend instead. You can even go with them, if you insist on leaving me. I know Lindon is stuck here for the moment, but we can certainly figure out ways around that." Malice didn't know any ways around that restriction, but a solution probably existed. It must be easier than reaching the level of Monarchs in less than a decade, which Lindon had already done. "I can't do that mother," Mercy said sadly. "I cant leave when I would have helped."
 
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