Remove ads

Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle]

Reader mode
Akura Clan is currently without a Monarch, right? I mean, yeah, it's got Mercy and Charity and Taylor and a tight alliance with the original protags, but we've seen in the fight with Dragon Dad that, even with all of the above strength brought to bear, Monarch is another weight class entirely.

The reason I ask is... I've been thinking about the Eight Man Empire's signature trick – how they can bundle-of-sticks their strength into a single Monarch-tier presence to be donned as needed – and it occurs to me that, with Taylor's unique take on the Crown icon, that shit ought to be replicable. Maybe not as Divine Treasures, sure, none of the people in question are specialists in that. But as a further elaboration on the Strands of Unity technique, it makes symbolic sense, and Team Akura's ensemble cast of friendly Sages and Heralds has very nearly counted to eight already. Most importantly, it's a way to potentially beat Monarch-tier threats without anyone having to Advance To Monarch in a personal capacity; this handily solves the trilemma of "permanent underdog against Monarch-tier threats"/"become Monarch and abandon your loved ones by fucking off to space"/"become Monarch and make the hunger aura problem worse" that our heroes have been struggling with.
 
Last edited:
Qoheleth said:
Akura Clan is currently without a Monarch, right? I mean, yeah, it's got Mercy and Charity and Taylor and a tight alliance with the original protags, but we've seen in the fight with Dragon Dad that, even with all of the above strength brought to bear, Monarch is another weight class entirely.

The reason I ask is... I've been thinking about the Eight Man Empire's signature trick – how they can bundle-of-sticks their strength into a single Monarch-tier presence to be donned as needed – and it occurs to me that, with Taylor's unique take on the Crown icon, that shit ought to be replicable. Maybe not as Divine Treasures, sure, none of the people in question are specialists in that. But as a further elaboration on the Strands of Unity technique, it makes symbolic sense, and Team Akura's ensemble cast of friendly Sages and Heralds has very nearly counted to eight already. Most importantly, it's a way to potentially beat Monarch-tier threats without anyone having to Advance To Monarch in a personal capacity; this handily solves the trilemma of "permanent underdog against Monarch-tier threats"/"become Monarch and abandon your loved ones by fucking off to space"/"become Monarch and make the hunger aura problem worse" that our heroes have been struggling with.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is another argument for wanting to go monarch : not doing so is limiting their personal growth (as the longer one stay herald or sage, the harder it would be to start advancing again when they feel ready*). It is sacrificing a part of who they could be for the sake of staying in the world. When taylor got the crown icon and went on to alter it, this was a question raised, and Taylor answer was that she could not, and would not accept that compromise and would make the world submit instead.


*The same way elder in the sacred valley, who chose to be there as jade in a iron pond, suffered from the consequences of living so long with imperfect knowledge and paths, and were quickly overtaken by the younger generation, less advanced and more easily able to switch

Is it true for the next steps as well, did nothstrider sabotage himself by delaying ascending and thus calcifying hisstate of being while limited to one world wort of knowledge ?
 
Icare said:
Is it true for the next steps as well, did nothstrider sabotage himself by delaying ascending and thus calcifying hisstate of being while limited to one world wort of knowledge ?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Northstrider is a bad example of what you are suggesting. He spent the majority of his time as a monarch preparing himself for ascension and we know it paid off. He is more analogous to a sacred artist taking their time to create a stable foundation before advancement rather than rush forward and risk damaging themselves. But I do see your point, if someone like Reigan Shen who did not ascend because they did not want to give up being a big fish in a small pond were forced to ascend I could see their potential having been limited due to their stagnation.
 
Last edited:
Epic Reader said:
Now, if some of them choose to Ascend and others don't, she's got a choice to make: make visits be allowed, or something else :).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Visits are allowed, if used as vacation time if Lindon and Yerin's trip back in Threshold is any indication. It's one of the big reasons why none of the remaining Sages and Heralds don't start shit after Lindon ascends, among the many, many contingencies Lindon made as a back-up too if the 8M Empire can't intervene against a new Monarch.
 
Arcman said:
Visits are allowed, if used as vacation time if Lindon and Yerin's trip back in Threshold is any indication. It's one of the big reasons why none of the remaining Sages and Heralds don't start shit after Lindon ascends, among the many, many contingencies Lindon made as a back-up too if the 8M Empire can't intervene against a new Monarch.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I haven't read Threshold yet, but I'll be honest Lindon and Yerin getting a chance to visit home sounds like something they could do because they are working under Eithan rather than any of the other Judges. Honestly I doubt they even got true permission, Eithan most likely just did something to distract the Aibidan assigned to observe Cradle so that they could get away with it.
 
Icare said:
It is sacrificing a part of who they could be for the sake of staying in the world.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, but like... that's normal human behavior, innit? Sacrificing all social attachments in order to grasp power that you don't actually need is the type of decision that, IRL, we consider self-destructive enough to write stories whose arc focuses on the main character breaking the bad habit.

I'll admit that Taylor manifesting the Crown complicates this, but if the Strands of Unity are a valid expression of her Crown comprehension, then why is "dictatorship (in the Roman sense) placed in her hands by the assent of her peers" insufficient to satisfy that need? What she recoiled from was the idea of "swearing off Monarchy entirely", which seems far broader than needing to do it the "traditional" way.

Arcman said:
Visits are allowed, if used as vacation time if Lindon and Yerin's trip back in Threshold is any indication. It's one of the big reasons why none of the remaining Sages and Heralds don't start shit after Lindon ascends, among the many, many contingencies Lindon made as a back-up too if the 8M Empire can't intervene against a new Monarch.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Chaos Theory said:
I haven't read Threshold yet, but I'll be honest Lindon and Yerin getting a chance to visit home sounds like something they could do because they are working under Eithan rather than any of the other Judges. Honestly I doubt they even got true permission, Eithan most likely just did something to distract the Aibidan assigned to observe Cradle so that they could get away with it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hey, uh, quick clarification question: does every Monarch who fucks off to space have to join the Abidan and get a job with some Mantle department or whatever? Because if so, that's a great reason to not trust a single thing they say on the topic of "it's childish not to ascend" ever again.
 
Qoheleth said:
Hey, uh, quick clarification question: does every Monarch who fucks off to space have to join the Abidan and get a job with some Mantle department or whatever? Because if so, that's a great reason to not trust a single thing they say on the topic of "it's childish not to ascend" ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Will has mentioned this but no, you explicitly aren't forced to join the Abidan. They incentivize recent ascendants into joining with perks like armor, presences, and training infrastructure and opportunities, but they don't force people. They'll still lock you up if you interfere in undeveloped worlds or break their rules in some other fashion, but they don't press-gang people.
 
Qoheleth said:
power that you don't actually need
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The thing, it is not just power
each advancement bring a lot of very literal quality of life improvements : ability to think deeper, to live longer, healthier and better, to feel more...
It is more a form of growing than reaching for power, and a child who would refuse to grow up in order to remain in the home of their childhood is not considered healthy.

In the genre, advancement are deliberately coded as a rite of passage, similar to adulthood rites, with even the social rules and archetype on dealing with inferior or superior a parody of the rules for dealing with children (protecting, guiding, ordering around, bullying) or older people (respecting, obeying, envying...)

A sage stopping before monarch would be a young adult deliberately not passing the driving licence : at this point it is not much of a difference since most of the step have been done, but the possibility of having a car, (or using the document to prove identity) is nice, no ?
 
Icare said:
A sage stopping before monarch would be a young adult deliberately not passing the driving licence : at this point it is not much of a difference since most of the step have been done, but the possibility of having a car, (or using the document to prove identity) is nice, no ?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The rest of the post is basically true for everything up to Archlord, but stops being as true for Archlords who want to advance to Herald/Sage or a Herald or Sage who wants to advance to Monarch.

Most Sages cannot advance to Monarch: it's noted as being insanely difficult and dangerous. In fact, it's more dangerous for a Sage to do a Herald advancement than an Archlord, because the Remnant has strong authority of its own. Beyond that, advancing as a Herald and advancing as a Sage require essentially opposite approaches.

For most of the setting, getting to Lowgold is the 'rite of passage to adulthood'.
 
Qoheleth said:
Hey, uh, quick clarification question: does every Monarch who fucks off to space have to join the Abidan and get a job with some Mantle department or whatever? Because if so, that's a great reason to not trust a single thing they say on the topic of "it's childish not to ascend" ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Nah, but if you're gonna ascend, their rules tend to be more along the lines of the Prime Directive than anything (with similar issues!) Just like the Federation, they're decidedly imperfect, full of flawed people, and less flexible than is ideal...but a policy of staying hands off most of the time except when needed to stop people exploiting or abusing various worlds (or to fix or deal with damage dealt to such) is in place. They're not space cops.

Eithan might heavily dislike them because they're hidebound, their leadership has some real self-absorbed or lazy people, and he's traumatized by being forced to do all the dirty work of culling worlds rendered unsalvageable (usually by Chaos Fiends), but even he's not gonna say that their basic motives, ideals, or overall organization are bad.

If you've got the power to protect worlds, the offer's open to use it to do so.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top