Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle]

I guess my question is: Even if they get all the Monarchs to ascend, what stops new ones from rising up and not ascending? It just seems like the plot is completely pointless in that case. I honestly don't care about the galactic stage. I find it hard to care too much about what happens outside of my own zone of influence on my regular sized planet, I cannot imagine people on Cradle are much different.
The canon answer is Lindon gave the Eight Man Empire Dreadgod weapons and had them swear oaths to no longer rule territory and to oppose the creation of Monarchs.

Maybe its early days yet, but the Akura clan isn't exactly sunshine and rainbows. With Malice gone, why haven't more people rebelled? If betraying the Akura, who have dominated me and my family for centuries, will keep me and my family alive..why not do it? The Akura don't have a Monarch anymore, and though they have sages, not so many that they cannot be contested.
They're probably too busy fighting dragons to rebel. Most of them are probably hunkering down and waiting to see who wins; regardless they'll probably just end up a vassal again to the winner. (Or die to the dragons if they get genocide-y.)

Does the Dragon Emperor kill everyone but dragons? I got the impression that he ruled a territory that was more than dragons and dust. Clearly he wants to wipe out the Akura, but does he just want to wipe out everyone who isn't a dragon? I realize he already killed loads of people, but it doesn't seem like he is intent on total destruction based on the situation in other areas. I'm not saying that those areas are having a great time of it, but life usually goes on.
We know very little about life in the Dragon Lands but they do seem to have some humans (one of the dragons Lindon fights is noted to adopt human orphans).

Sesh's goal seems to be to kill as many Akura-aligned humans as possible out of smite. He's probably going to ignore the Winter Blade Sect and Blackflame Empire (not worth fighting their Sages, though he might make an exception for Lindon and Yerin given their past). He'll likely keep targeting Akura lands till the Akura core (Charity, Taylor, Mercy) are either dead or ran away. He'll blow up Moongrave, then rule over the ashes, allowing his family to do whatever they want with the surviving humans.
 
He'll blow up Moongrave, then rule over the ashes, allowing his family to do whatever they want with the surviving humans.
What surviving humans?
The Akura heartlands, once a tapestry of jungles, forests, and grasslands rich in aura, had been reduced to a blasted desert. The sheer waste of it infuriated me. They hadn't even been destroyed during a battle like the Arelius lands; the Dragon King had ravaged a significant portion of the continent and likely murdered billions out of pure spite.
 
I guess my question is: Even if they get all the Monarchs to ascend, what stops new ones from rising up and not ascending? It just seems like the plot is completely pointless in that case. I honestly don't care about the galactic stage. I find it hard to care too much about what happens outside of my own zone of influence on my regular sized planet, I cannot imagine people on Cradle are much different.
There actually is something that makes it notably harder the more that the understanding about the Monarchs and Dreadgods spreads. The current crop of Monarchs sit on that secret for a reason. The more widely it's known, the fewer good-intentioned people will advance to Monarch without planning to ascend shortly, and the less that unaffiliated Heralds and Sages will accept a newly-minted Monarch. Selfish Heralds and Sages (aka, "almost all of them") aren't going to throw their own positions and lives away on a stunt, but if a couple dozen assemble to demand the Monarch ascends, a singular Monarch won't be in a good position, and the alliance's risk to any individual sacred artist is minimal. And there is good reason to join an alliance: a neutral Monarch is still a reason that a Dreadgod (or some equally horrible manifestation of Hunger aura) will come around again. Also, they might be able to get a slice of the Monarch's stuff as loot afterwards.

It's not enough to solve the problem forever, of course. I think any of us can think of half a dozen ways to navigate or undermine that general idea. But just like the presence of the Monarchs and Dreadgods became an accepted status quo, the fact that "we all come together to kick Monarchs upstairs" can become a status quo for at least a good long while, long enough for memories of the Dreadgods to fade.

It doesn't solve the problem forever, but it can be part of a fairly durable solution.
 
The Last Stand of the King
Things were not so good in the Seishen Kingdom. They'd been attacked by an Archlord as well, and no Sages had conveniently appeared to protect them. King Dakata had died defending the capital, and only Meira's timely advancement to Overlord had stopped the entire country from being overrun. Her and Kiro had managed to hold onto the western third or so of their territory, near their border with the Frozen Blade School, but the dragons were still pressing them hard.

Whoops, I tripped over some inspiration and a thing happened.



The Last Stand of the King

It was strange, King Seishen Dakata found, but here, at the end of a life of conquest and rulership, with everything falling to pieces around him, he was not as explosively angry as he would have expected.

That was not to say he wasn't angry. He was furious, on a level he didn't think he'd ever been before... but it was a cold fury, a rational one. He would not live to see tomorrow, but he would spend himself as well as he could along the way.

For the moment, he meditated, cycling as best he could, while attendants brought him natural treasures he could burn for soulfire and others brought his armor, his shield, his sword: the treasures with which he had personally carved out a kingdom.

"Sire..." Dakata didn't know which of his ministers it was, with the minister behind him and Dakata facing the wall, and the poor man's voice quavering to the point he didn't sound like himself. "The scouts and oracles agree, the Archlord will be here in less than an hour."

After a lifetime to create it, it now appeared that the Seishen Kingdom would fall in just two days. It wasn't yet two full days since flights of dragons had appeared on their eastern border, smashing defenses and slaughtering all they came across. The Kingdom had responded as best it could, spending ancient secrets and irreplaceable life-saving tools with reckless speed, the accumulated power of the Seishen Kingdom turned to its last defense. It hadn't helped. The Seishen Kingdom's best tools were Underlords and a handful of launcher constructs and boundary fields that, themselves, might measure up to an Underlord at most.

For anything beyond Underlord, the only tool the Kingdom had was Dakata himself. And he was only an Overlord, no match for an Archlord, even in his prime.

"Sire?"

"I heard you." With deliberate motions, the King stills his cycling, and climbs ponderously to his feet. He is not yet an old man, but age has begun catching up to him. He feels it, yet it scarcely matters. His body will hold up well enough for a single fight. His armor was in place, now, so he held out his left hand, and one attendant, struggling despite Truegold muscles, handed him the lion-faced shield he's weathered a dozen fierce battles behind. He held out his right, and the other attendant handed him his blade that has hewn four hundred foes of his rule. "Go. All of you. Do what you can for yourselves and your loved ones."

He did not give any empty words about valuable service and faithful loyalty. What the last day has told Dakata is that none of that matters an iota in the face of an even more iron law of Cradle: the strong take what they choose. The weak endure.

Five minutes later, the King stood erect and alone on a Thousand-Mile Cloud above the keep of his castle. Below and around him, a hundred warriors and constructs peppered the late afternoon with Striker techniques, and as often as not, a dragon of Truegold or Underlord strength responded with an attack of far greater strength.

This was already the dregs of the defense. One of the city's walls had been reduced to rubble and cinder by a single attack that the oncoming Archlord sent ahead as an introduction.

Dakata could not keep himself from scanning the situation with his spiritual sense. It told him nothing he didn't already know: the dragons were making sport of his people. Of his people. Lines of refugees tried to pour out of the capital city, or tried to navigate around it. Those who tried to run to it were already dead, columns of thousands of people slain as a side-effect of the attack on the walls he'd been so proud to help construct. Even this was not even a tithe of a tithe of the death there had already been in the Seishen Kingdom. The Kingdom had had millions of citizens in its eastern reaches. No more.

Finally, the Archlord arrived. With a thunderous clap, a dragon perhaps twenty feet from horn to tail appeared in the air. Mighty wings beat, keeping it hovering in the air as it surveyed the ground with profound satisfaction.

Dakata had slain larger dragons than this. He had never faced one with even a fraction of what the red-scaled figure before him commanded. Whether its appearance had been simply the speed of an Archlord or some movement technique, the dragon gave no sign. It simply fully unleashed its spirit.

Even Dakata flinched and had to fight back sweat as the potent power of fire clawed at him. Some of the Golds on the ground didn't even survive this simple exercise of madra: they burned. Roofs and groves gradually caught fire.

Just the presence of this dragon was a fiery calamity, but Dakata urged his Cloud forward.

Before he could strike, the dragon's eyes latched onto him. "Ah, a human. Allow me to introduce myself." It was a woman's voice, and it sounded strangely cultured, in contrast to her words and actions. "I am Alziordra."

"Why are you here, dragon?" It went against every instinct in Dakata's body, but the truth was that every minute spent talking was a minute for thousands of refugees to get further away.

"No particular reason." Alzi smiled, showing off teeth five inches long. "I have decided to fly in this direction, and so I have done so. Ah, but evening is beginning to fall! I think I shall bed here, in this castle, once I have knocked off the unsightly parts." Slowly, she began beating her wings to circle Dakata, and he urged his Cloud to match her motion. "Why, perhaps you could provide some hospitality. If you swear on your soul to serve me in all things and never to resist me, I'll let you organize my dinner! And then in the morning I'll decide whether to keep you as a servant or just kill you. Does that sound like a deal?"

"Never." And Dakata took a ready stance at last, shield held before him and sword behind, with his body to disguise its exact swing.

Alzi laughed, and it had only mockery in its tone. "You're going to try to fight me with so little advancement and with the body of a human?"

"No." And a Forged sword fell on Alzi like a meteor.

It was Dakata's strongest attack, powered by the full force of his madra and shining with every wisp of soulfire he could command at once. It fell from the sky, longer than a yacht and accelerated by every bit of gravity and will Dakata could muster. Alzi, secure in her superiority, had sensed it, but had allowed Dakata the moment to trigger it.

If Alzi had merely dodged, it would have done vast damage to the Seishen capital below them, but instead she batted at it with one contemptuous swing of her wing. In the face of superior advancement, even Dakata's best attack could slow her for barely a second as she shattered the technique.

It was a second he used, as he darted forward with all the speed the Cloud could muster, but it wasn't enough to land a single blow before she recovered. The dragon reared up and her rear talons flashed. The sun was setting behind Dakata, and he saw the reflection of it on her dark, polished nails. He tried to ram into her, but one talon held off his shield. He swung to injure that talon, but the other one countered his strike, as easily as a swordmaster deflecting a novice's foolish rush.

But, for the moment, Alzi was not striking back. She was playing with him, a cruel smile as she let him try everything. With a sharp exhale he obliged her. The Titan's Blade filled his shield, and it suddenly expanded in size and toughness, a defense more adamant than mere city walls.

With a snort of impossibly hot flame, the Forger technique vanished, seared away. As it went, Dakata's sword replaced it. This, too, had been enveloped and grown by the Titan's Blade, and the massive sword swung quicker than Dakata had ever moved before, a perfect arc aimed to tear one of Alzi's wing membranes. This, too, she batted away, only to find a spread of Striker techniques in its shadow. For just an instant, her eyes widened in mild surprise.

The earth-aspect techniques struck her and vanished. Between her draconic body, her Enforcer technique, and her Archlord advancement, such attacks could not hurt her.

"Enough. I tire of this." For the first time, Alzi went on the attack, and her claws tore the Thousand-Mile Cloud to shreds. With some satisfaction, she looked up to see where he was trying to jump to... only to find the King landing on her back.

Power flowed through his Iron body as he activated the Mountainroot to its fullest. His Iron body made him stronger and more stable all the time. When his madra coursed through it, its effects were magnified. He would not be dislodged easily. This was what he had tried to maneuver to, the only position where he might trade his life for some injury, instead of simply dying futilely.

A surprised Archlady, who had only expected a normal human weight, shook her body violently, halfway between a dog shaking itself dry and a horse throwing a rider.

Dakata held on. He had only a second to steady himself before she tried a Ruler technique, instead. The already unendurably hot air turned even hotter, and Dakata's hair, clothing, even his armor begin to sizzle and melt. He'd already suffered severe burns before he hacked at her neck, his sword held one-handed as the other screamed in pain as he forced it to hold to a ridge of scales hotter than a blacksmith's forge.

Two, three times the sword struck, each time barely chipping her neck scales even as his sword, too, began to melt and crack from the punishment he was dealing out.

With the fourth swing, the sword finally hit flesh, and Dakata was gratified to see a spray of blood, no matter how minimal, even if it was also accompanied by three-quarters of his blade broken off, spinning into the distance.

It was the only victory he was allowed. Finally, his body betrayed him, and he could hold onto her scales no longer. His Mountainroot body disconnected from her, and he peeled away.

He did not plummet far before Alzi fell on him, a scream of frustration as her talons sank into him. She beat her wings, faster and faster, pushing them to the ground. When they hit, he didn't feel it. He couldn't feel much at all. He could see the crater walls around him, though, courtesy of their impact. "Idiot. I told you you couldn't fight me with a human body."

"Wrong." Dakata's negation was spoiled by a cough, but she still understood, and twisted her sinuous neck to consider this strange claim, to judge if he had lost hold of sanity or simply failed to understand. So, Seishen Dakata spoke his final words, to explain it. They were not a whisper. They were a roar of defiance. "Not a human body. The body of a King!" The body of one who would die defending his people.

A frustrated Alzi tore him to pieces.

Then, something even more irritating happened. Alziordra's gaze flicked to the spirit of a newly minted Overlord, still some distance away. Gingerly, she felt the little injury she had taken. It wasn't bad. But it was more than she had expected to take already, and now there was another of these irritating gadflies.

"Oh, never mind, this isn't any fun any longer. I'm not dealing with that today."

Slowly, lazily, Alziordra swept a majestic half-circle in the sky and winged her way back east.



Miles away, despite how long and how hard they had pushed their own Thousand-Mile Clouds, Prince Seishen Dakata and Meira sensed the King's death.

"Kiro... don't go." Meira seized the Prince's arm with desperate force. "You can't win. We have to flee. Even the King couldn't stop that dragon."

Kiro's jaw set. The two of them had been flying back from the Viridian Winnower sect, having left as soon as they had heard of the attack. "I have to."

"You can't win if he couldn't. Please, Prince, think about this!"

"I'm not going to fight the Archlord," Kiro argued. "But there's people out there, who still need me. If my father is really dead, that means I'm the King, and millions of people who looked to my father need me now. I have to lead people away, fight off as many of the lesser dragons as I can, and then... then we have to regroup." He shivered as he realized the magnitude of the impossible task before him. "There's going to be food shortages, dragon raids, countless displaced refugees, and no one to help us. That's what I'm going for. I'm going to do what I can for the innocent Golds who need a guide and protector right now."

In the face of his vehemence, Meira, betrothed to the First Prince—and thus now to the King—took a deep breath and let go. "I understand." Until now, Meira had had to serve and save the Kiro. Now she realized the new path her life would have to take. "Your people are my people, and I will protect them as as you do. I will stand by you, Seishen Kiro, not as bodyguard, but as the Seishen Queen."

Meira meant it with every scrap of her being, and she was so busy calculating every lesser dragon she would have to slay to honor her vow that she only barely noticed as the soulfire in her spirit blazed, reached a new level, and baptized her body.
 
Even if they get all the Monarchs to ascend, what stops new ones from rising up and not ascending? It just seems like the plot is completely pointless in that case. I honestly don't care about the galactic stage. I find it hard to care too much about what happens outside of my own zone of influence on my regular sized planet, I cannot imagine people on Cradle are much different.

Beyond what the others have said, there is also the fact that
Lindon can return to Cradle as an Executor. Given that EOS Lindon can solo the entire universe of Fathom in a straight-up fight, and considering that a half-dead Raion—using a Divine Titan that was actively fighting against him—sliced a solar system in half, dealing with any would-be Monarchs would be nothing for him.


I don't see Monarchs that aren't willing to ascend as evil. Even Shen and the Dragon Emperor/King have people they look after.
Shen is undoubtedly evil, the man depopulated most of a continent because Tiberian asked him to change and grow as a person.
 
Meira meant it with every scrap of her being, and she was so busy calculating every lesser dragon she would have to slay to honor her vow that she only barely noticed as the soulfire in her spirit blazed, reached a new level, and baptized her body.
I liked it, but I was under the impression you needed to use treasures to advance? And also that it'd be impossible to not really notice?
 
I liked it, but I was under the impression you needed to use treasures to advance? And also that it'd be impossible to not really notice?
If I remember correctly the importance of treasures is speeding it up, without it you can be disabled for weeks as your body slowly ascend, I don't remember if treasures can be added after the ascension started to speed it up.
 
If I remember correctly the importance of treasures is speeding it up, without it you can be disabled for weeks as your body slowly ascend, I don't remember if treasures can be added after the ascension started to speed it up.

This is correct. Most people who went through 'sudden advancements' had the treasures hidden away in storage rings or in soul spaces to pull out out at a moments notice.
 
I think the important bit is you need soulfire to advance. Laying out treasures gives you a lot more soulfire to play with but I guess you could potentially just use the soulfire you have in your soulspace but it will likely make it far slower.
 
If I remember correctly the importance of treasures is speeding it up, without it you can be disabled for weeks as your body slowly ascend, I don't remember if treasures can be added after the ascension started to speed it up.
This is correct. Most people who went through 'sudden advancements' had the treasures hidden away in storage rings or in soul spaces to pull out out at a moments notice.
I think the important bit is you need soulfire to advance. Laying out treasures gives you a lot more soulfire to play with but I guess you could potentially just use the soulfire you have in your soulspace but it will likely make it far slower.
Also something to keep in mind is who exactly is doing this, Meira is an absolute raw talent monster so it would really help speed things up.
 
Also something to keep in mind is who exactly is doing this, Meira is an absolute raw talent monster so it would really help speed things up.

She is competing against Lindon, Mercy and Yerrin there (whose POV we have seen going through transformations). She is very, very good, but she's not that exceptional in terms of talent compared to those three. Hell, we even see Eithan's advancement under the supervision of the Sage of Eyes from canon.

The treasures are burned to produce enough soul fire, but you need a LOT of soul fire to do a fast and high-quality transformation.
 
She is competing against Lindon, Mercy and Yerrin there (whose POV we have seen going through transformations). She is very, very good, but she's not that exceptional in terms of talent compared to those three. Hell, we even see Eithan's advancement under the supervision of the Sage of Eyes from canon.
I think she had the potential, if Eithan raised her, instead she got stuck with a Gardner path and subpar madra, and still did great.

Both Yerin and Lindon own much of their success to Eithan's, it is right they did it, but a lot of it was opportunities opened to them by him.
 
Cool scenario:
Somebody, probably a Monarch succeeds at defeating Archlord Taylor. QA desperate, fully enters Cradle and uses trigger mechanism to save Taylor from death causing Titanization. Titanization - which I understand to be a sort of fuzing with a Shard causes Monarch advancement, helping to prevent most of disadvantages of Titanization. Now QA and Taylor are fuzed and fully in Cradle. Stomping enemies commences. Instead of ascending they return to their world, gain full control over Shardspace, and use the information and bodymass to advance their authority and Madara reserves. Then using shardic spatial proficiency to place the entire Earth in their Soulspace, gaining the weight of an Entity and entire planet to their Authority. Enough conceptual weight to rival a Judge.
THEN she can join Reapers, and Ozzy gains a friend that he can be actually afraid of!
 
THEN she can join Reapers, and Ozzy gains a friend that he can be actually afraid of!
I think that in that situation, you would basically have a gold in the body of monrach, as in, incredibly destructive and powerful, but he is going to have a lot to grow before he can fight an actual monrach.

Assuming that's enough authority at least to match a judge.
 
I think that in that situation, you would basically have a gold in the body of monrach, as in, incredibly destructive and powerful, but he is going to have a lot to grow before he can fight an actual monrach.

Assuming that's enough authority at least to match a judge.
When you write monarch here you mean Judge not Monarch, right? Taylor can easily get to Monarch level, probably even just as Archlord Sage, with enough juice from QA.

If you mean Judge I agree 100% but if she leveraged entire Shardspace well enough and share with those thousands of Shards how to wield Authority in their specializations, with enough time I do believe that she could have a good chance of matching them (depending on who writes the story lol).
 
When you write monarch here you mean Judge not Monarch, right? Taylor can easily get to Monarch level, probably even just as Archlord Sage, with enough juice from QA.
Yeh, I just compared the situation.

In this case a person of Taylor's skills is the ascended version of gold (normal citizen).
 
Yeh, I just compared the situation.

In this case a person of Taylor's skills is the ascended version of gold (normal citizen).
Oh, now I see, I got confused on your construction.

And I also forgot an extra step she could take: hunting actual Entities and absorbing their Shards.

I mean I love the Idea of Shards with Madara because Madara is the literal solution to their life mission! They are able to do so much with their limited stores of energy, and Madra (that breaks conservation of energy at even most basic levels) would finally free them from clutches of Entropy, even without counting Authority shenanigans!
 
share with those thousands of Shards how to wield Authority in their specializations, with enough time I do believe that she could have a good chance of matching them (depending on who writes the story lol).

Depends on what you mean by matching them. Being able to interact with them in a meaningful way, like in combat or something similar? Yes. Matching their influence and control over the Way? No. The Way wouldn't respond to her the way it does to the Judges.

The Judges exist as the archetypal properties of absolute order—they are the foundation of the Way itself. This is why Daruman always refers to them as "the very pillars of heaven," why Lindon says the chambers at the bottom of the Way feel like Suriel, why Suriel refers to Lindon's marble as a piece of herself, why Ozriel refers to himself as "the end of all that was, all that is, and all that shall be," and why they refer to their physical vessels as their mortal forms. The only way for her to match them in this regard would be by manifesting another absolute aspect into reality. The eight easy ones have already been taken, so she'd have to do what Ozriel did—take what was considered a property of Chaos and manifest it into the Way.

This also may explain Ozriel's apparent acausality in that one chapter scene, as it hasn't been explained how tf he did that. Like it literally makes no sense with how we're told the OS conceptually functions.
 
This is why Daruman always refers to them as "the very pillars of heaven," why Lindon says the chambers at the bottom of the Way feel like Suriel, why Suriel refers to Lindon's marble as a piece of herself, why Ozriel refers to himself as "the end of all that was, all that is, and all that shall be," and why they refer to their physical vessels as their mortal forms. The only way for her to match them in this regard would be by manifesting another absolute aspect into reality.
I'm not sure it would be a good idea to emulate Judges. Cause they seem to be stuck in a rut similar to Entities just from a different direction. Where Entities gone all in on physical cultivation heavily lacking in spiritual stuff Judges are all spirit with their bodies being more or less atrophied. Their powers are incredible but the results of their setup are kinda underwhelming for the amount of mojo they have.
 
What do you mean by mojo in this case? I don't understand.
Energy, magic, authority, call it whatever you want. They have more or less unlimited amounts of it but by shackling it solely to concepts they lost a good chunk of versatility and now need to use this cosmic hammer to deal with all of their problems. Very much literally.

If they had even half the tools Entities have supported by Authority their organization wouldn't have most of its problems in managing the worlds they consider to be in their sphere of influence.
 
Energy, magic, authority, call it whatever you want. They have more or less unlimited amounts of it but by shackling it solely to concepts they lost a good chunk of versatility and now need to use this cosmic hammer to deal with all of their problems. Very much literally.

If they had even half the tools Entities have supported by Authority their organization wouldn't have most of its problems in managing the worlds they consider to be in their sphere of influence.
They use their presences to do stuff like manage their powers (they got too much versatility to decide what to do in a fight without support), but it is true their presence doesn't have the kind of thinking power entities have, or more like, they can do a lot, but their focus is narrower than the wide variety entities have, social thinker powers for one would have solved a lot of their problems.
 
Depends on what you mean by matching them. Being able to interact with them in a meaningful way, like in combat or something similar? Yes. Matching their influence and control over the Way? No. The Way wouldn't respond to her the way it does to the Judges.
Mostly in combat, but I do think that with enough Shards of enough Advancements you can cheat out effects similar to Judges' abilities. They wouldn't have the same Authority over the Way, but could use their Authority over things within Way, and use their Shardic abilities to extend those evects over similar ranges. One of Judges' greatest feats is time manipulation and there are Shards for that, that just need enough fuel to do similar things!
 
Back
Top