Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
All the marbles yes, but I'm not sure we'll need to have at least an entire month of prep. That seems like too much time spent preparing and not enough actually fighting. Also, the longer they're in the Aura the harder it is to keep them from being addicted. I think we could do the attack on the beholder next month, that is to say this coming turn.
 
All the marbles yes, but I'm not sure we'll need to have at least an entire month of prep. That seems like too much time spent preparing and not enough actually fighting. Also, the longer they're in the Aura the harder it is to keep them from being addicted. I think we could do the attack on the beholder next month, that is to say this coming turn.
It's not unreasonable to expect that a class 4 miasma negated by Serena will have roughly the same effect on veterans that an unmitigated class 3's miasma would, which really heavily cuts away at our possible fighting pool. That puts us down to basically 3-4 complete fighters. Including Nagoya's teams in Serena's aura, blind to it's effects, would basically be killing them. I have little doubt they'd refuse to help because of Serena, if they weren't prepared for it adequately.
 
There is a difference between first time exposure during the fight, and two or three weeks of training first. Both of these things are not "spend a month's time prepping". I also am not sure that it is such a viable assumption to assume that level of effect on the veterans. Helix's statements seem to assume that we'll need to send a ton of vets against the Class 4 in addition to our available elites. And keep in mind that Serena would be transformed, which strengthens her aura.
 
With running Serena to trapped demons.... how abandoned is Tokyo? If the traffic is light enough, (or nonexistent) we could try buying a car and having someone drive it. Unless we put Akeno in charge of driving, I would not expect the car to be usable afterwards. We would likely have to pay up Kyubey for masquerade damage but while the Tokyo disaster is stabler, we do need to stabilize it before the refugees destablize everyone else. Just an option that may not even be workable at all.

Edit: Have we used our last elite attempt with Kaoru yet? If we can't find anything for Miho to do, we could always have her do that.
 
Last edited:
No matter what choice we decide on, we will, at minimum, sacrifice one thing. Time (and therefore situational stability), cubes, or girls. We can barely afford cube expenses, and the plans that make extensive use of cubes don't necessarily blow through the remaining youma all that quickly and so don't exactly constitute a decisive finisher. We could switch tack to try to come up with a research direction we can complete quickly, or organize a big movement to minimize casualties, but in either case these will take turns to finish, and increase the chance of a death spiral and quarantine. Finally, we could stop pussyfooting around and start making hard decisions, like allowing our teams to hunt packs rather than solos or duos, or trying to finish off the class 4 which would spiral into a massive offensive against the remaining youma, without the safety in uncertainty the class 4 provided, but the issue there is that in either case we will lose girls, even with preparations and contingencies set up to prevent deaths.

I want to plan a big hit on the class 4, so we can at least spread the pain among other factions and/or hopefully reduce the pain significantly, but I don't want to use up too much time setting up, that's why I'm thinking a one-month prep multi-faction attack would be the best move.
 
I'm in favor of letting teams go after packs, but I'm not sure how that strains our grief cube supply.

I'd like to come up with an idea regarding a low Grief-cost solution to splitting demon packs. Perhaps having multiple teams in loose coordination that can split a pack's attention? Demon's are said to be at most not too intelligent, so it's possible to lure some into traps (like having a girl or two play bait for a pack to lure them into a coordinated position). Having girls play bait for larger teams lying in wait might be something worth trying.
 
how abandoned is Tokyo?
Human population hasn't abandoned Tokyo much at all. Population has dropped, but not a large enough amount to impact traffic much.

The humans have no understanding of why Tokyo is bad. On some level if they go out of the city they can recognize the city feels depressing, but they can't understand why that would be. They can recognize the economy in other cities is doing better, but you don't see abandonment of a city over that in a matter of a couple years.

Edit: Have we used our last elite attempt with Kaoru yet? If we can't find anything for Miho to do, we could always have her do that.
You still have the last one left.

Also not sure if people realized because I didn't put a [] at the end, but that was a break for a vote. By my calculation you have approximately 10 days left in the month. You originally planned to terminate Class 3 operations in 3 days in order to spend the last 1/4 of the month doing a normal hunt through the more secured parts of Tokyo in order to make up for some of your grief cube deficit from taking in refugees.
 
Last edited:
I'm in favor of letting teams go after packs, but I'm not sure how that strains our grief cube supply.
I didn't say we'd lose cubes fighting packs, I said we'd lose girls. And we're still not guaranteed to get every Youma in a pack before they run, even with casualties on our end.
I'd like to come up with an idea regarding a low Grief-cost solution to splitting demon packs. Perhaps having multiple teams in loose coordination that can split a pack's attention? Demon's are said to be at most not too intelligent, so it's possible to lure some into traps (like having a girl or two play bait for a pack to lure them into a coordinated position). Having girls play bait for larger teams lying in wait might be something worth trying.
The problem there lies in the risk to the bait, since even Kyouko would be hard-pressed to survive under the weight of three or four Youma's miasma and attentions at once for long enough to get a full team in position, and that a demon's innate meguca sense has a far wider range than we have (it's why I had to institute stealth fields for the Serena team in my bait plan). We'd have to burn cubes like crazy to support that strategy, and it's liable not to work anyway.

I don't know why we planned on spending the last week hunting low-class demons, though, considering we'll not have the teleport advantage and they will. Hunting without eliminating the damn beholder is, if not impossible, insanely risky.

[X] Learning Experience
-All that's left now is to try to destroy the beholder demon. Coordinate with Nagoya to the best of our ability so that they can take advantage of our battle to hunt Youma without fearing teleport interdiction, or in case any of them are willing to lend themselves to the attack even with Serena's aura present.
-Tracking it down: Acquire as much advance info from Kyuubey as possible about it's movement patterns and and prepare the attack for when it's least likely to be near other Youma, preferably inside of five days.
-Fighting it: Due to the mystery and lack of information regarding the beholder and it's abilities, killing it is a secondary priority to figuring it out. If the beholder demon runs, do not chase it if significant casualties have been inflicted on our side first. There is no room for a judgement call, as Serena's aura makes accurate judgement calls of it's remaining strength impossible. Youma who interfere in the attack are to be prioritized over killing the beholder, and taking advantage of any possible slavish loyalty to the beholder to kill youma is encouraged. Otherwise, the fight itself will have two stages, with the entire encounter to go on no longer than twice the average Youma encounter's duration.
--Probing for weaknesses: The first half of the fight will consist of probing for magical, elemental, or body-location weaknesses on the beholder, in part to speed up killing it and in part to have more information for future attacks. If more than one in five participating girls become casualties, or if more than one in ten participating girls are killed outright, begin retreating from the fight without moving on to the second phase.
--Slaying: After any two significant weaknesses have been found or, barring that, half the time allotted is spent, attempt to overwhelm the beholder's regeneration, targeting areas of interest if any were found.
-This process is to be repeated to seek out a second encounter, using stealth fields if necessary to get close enough to the beholder. Only attempt a second encounter if the death count from the first encounter didn't cut it short.
 
If we are going to charge, let's have someone make up plans for a stone shrine for Miho to build. I don't think the homemade one will cut it after our losses here.
 
I don't know why we planned on spending the last week hunting low-class demons, though, considering we'll not have the teleport advantage and they will. Hunting without eliminating the damn beholder is, if not impossible, insanely risky.
It worked for you reasonably well in the last month, supplementing your cubes. For the most part escaping is possible as long as they are alert and ready to flee if needed.

The reason it was planned is because your cubes are going to be very much a problem with as many refugees as you took in. Without an end of month hunt you'll be at around half the normal reserve level. Which will cause a morale hit, though one you could accept. It would put your cubes next month at critical levels though, you could potentially run out in the next month.
 
Last edited:
Well I suppose if we're able to get away with it... Didn't realize we'd done it before. I'm all for putting the remaining ten days into hunting.

[X] Expand the end-of-month planned hunting to include the extra days we have available. We can't make any coherent plans and practice them to be ready inside three days, and we'll need extra cubes to make up for the losses incurred taking out a few more Youma.
 
[X] Expand the end-of-month planned hunting to include the extra days we have available. We can't make any coherent plans and practice them to be ready inside three days, and we'll need extra cubes to make up for the losses incurred taking out a few more Youma.
 
Coming in from a different direction won't do anything. They can sense us and know how dangerous we are long before we're close enough to lock down their teleportation. Basically everything you've suggested is pointless, because now the Youma are deliberately avoiding us except when there's more than two of them at once, which is dangerous even with Serena around, and we can't teleport onto them because there's a risk the class 4 is nearby.

All we can do now is start taking actual risks, like we were told we would have to do by Helix several dozen times, like try to bait a large enough horde of Youma into the interdiction field and do a big engagement with them to thin their numbers more severely, or make a headlong no-holds-barred attack on the class 4 and hopefully eliminate it, allowing us to fight without having an entire arm of our combat tactics neutralized for the rest of the 3's.

Personally I think we might be able to manage a trapdoor spider approach, though it would be brutally costly in cubes. Stealth field a forward kill team somewhere in the city with the interdiction device, and physically walk Serena into range of it when we catch a demon in the trap.
While we are taking some risks, I'd say that the hunting of the Class 3s is going fairly well. 4 killed in this update, so the number of Class 3s are dropping. Also, they're using Pair/Pack tactics, so they're less effective at hunting than they used to be. And our hunting in Tokyo should increase the DS and make things better for the civilians in some areas. Overall, the situation is much better than it was before we started operating. If we can sustain our current level of effort (while periodically changing tactics to prevent the demons from adapting), then we should be able to clear Tokyo. Especially if the Youma get weaker over time due to not being able to kill as many meguca.

Of course, the current level of effort probably is not sustainable, but even an approach where we hunt in Tokyo every other month (and then take a month off to allow the demons to re-adapt) should eventually clear the city.

[X] Expand the end-of-month planned hunting to include the extra days we have available. We can't make any coherent plans and practice them to be ready inside three days, and we'll need extra cubes to make up for the losses incurred taking out a few more Youma.
 
While we are taking some risks, I'd say that the hunting of the Class 3s is going fairly well. 4 killed in this update, so the number of Class 3s are dropping. Also, they're using Pair/Pack tactics, so they're less effective at hunting than they used to be. And our hunting in Tokyo should increase the DS and make things better for the civilians in some areas. Overall, the situation is much better than it was before we started operating. If we can sustain our current level of effort (while periodically changing tactics to prevent the demons from adapting), then we should be able to clear Tokyo. Especially if the Youma get weaker over time due to not being able to kill as many meguca.

Of course, the current level of effort probably is not sustainable, but even an approach where we hunt in Tokyo every other month (and then take a month off to allow the demons to re-adapt) should eventually clear the city.

[X] Expand the end-of-month planned hunting to include the extra days we have available. We can't make any coherent plans and practice them to be ready inside three days, and we'll need extra cubes to make up for the losses incurred taking out a few more Youma.
The problem with that is that even if we were to stop hunting in our own territory entirely to support more hunting in Tokyo, DS would probably still fall naturally with our efforts. Tokyo supports over a thousand girls at once in a sustainable way, and the numbers in-city are several hundred girls below that. Our little group in the fifties isn't going to do much else than stem the downward spiral.
 
The problem with that is that even if we were to stop hunting in our own territory entirely to support more hunting in Tokyo, DS would probably still fall naturally with our efforts. Tokyo supports over a thousand girls at once in a sustainable way, and the numbers in-city are several hundred girls below that. Our little group in the fifties isn't going to do much else than stem the downward spiral.
Sustainable would be somewhere around 1550, numbers are down to around 700.

Will try to write next bit today, might finish main update, depends how long it takes to piece everything together.
 
The problem with that is that even if we were to stop hunting in our own territory entirely to support more hunting in Tokyo, DS would probably still fall naturally with our efforts. Tokyo supports over a thousand girls at once in a sustainable way, and the numbers in-city are several hundred girls below that. Our little group in the fifties isn't going to do much else than stem the downward spiral.
Oh, I totally agree that Tokyo is still in a horrible position. But it's slightly less horrible than it was before and it's reasonable to hope that it will eventually improve.
 
If the issue is DS falling, could we call in the other groups? I mean, if we have a safe zone for hunting then I can't think of a reason not to call them in if the situation is that bad. Basically every group wants grief seeds especially with poaching, refugees and everything else taxing their supplies. Note this is if we are that desperate but we aren't the only Puellas around, and as everyone has been saying we do not have the manpower.
 
Oh, I totally agree that Tokyo is still in a horrible position. But it's slightly less horrible than it was before and it's reasonable to hope that it will eventually improve.
It can only improve if we can transplant a lot of girls into it. Anything we can do is literally just stemming the flow when, at the end of it all, Tokyo cannot start recovering until the problem is dealt with decisively.
If the issue is DS falling, could we call in the other groups? I mean, if we have a safe zone for hunting then I can't think of a reason not to call them in if the situation is that bad. Basically every group wants grief seeds especially with poaching, refugees and everything else taxing their supplies. Note this is if we are that desperate but we aren't the only Puellas around, and as everyone has been saying we do not have the manpower.
Not everybody is willing to take the risk of hunting in a meguca deathscape. We put a lot of effort into ensuring hunter safety compared to every other group, so we can get away with it, but other factions are likely to rapidly lose girls trying to hunt in that environment without the level of prep we put into it. Aside from that, I'm pretty much certain that no matter how many girls we can get to hunt Tokyo, we can't replace eight hundred girls' worth of hunting power before even other factions run out of spare manpower.
 
Aside from that, I'm pretty much certain that no matter how many girls we can get to hunt Tokyo, we can't replace eight hundred girls' worth of hunting power before even other factions run out of spare manpower.
Note that DS decreases by a quarter of the rate once it's below 0 (because of demon infighting). And there are currently 700 girls in Tokyo. If each of them hunted 1 GCU per month, then the DS rate in Tokyo would actually be rising. The abysmally low DS in Tokyo indicates that they get killed before that. This is horribly depressing (it looks like at least 2/3rds of them die each month), but it does mean that our efforts (both in hunting and in educating the locals) have the potential to make a significant difference.

Edit: nevermind, this is wrong.
 
Last edited:
Note that DS decreases by a quarter of the rate once it's below 0 (because of demon infighting). And there are currently 700 girls in Tokyo. If each of them hunted 1 GCU per month, then the DS rate in Tokyo would actually be rising.
That is not anywhere close to how this is calculated.

Change in DS is calculated normally based on GCU harvest, then at the end after all else is done the .25 multiplier is applied. A negative value remains a negative value.

(Though honestly I was really hasty when I slapped that modifier in place to patch a hole in the system, if I'd recognized the hole in advance I'd have come up with a more elegant patch that was less sharp and more gradual.)
 
Last edited:
That is not anywhere close to how this is calculated.

Change in DS is calculated normally based on GCU harvest, then at the end after all else is done the .25 multiplier is applied. A negative value remains a negative value.

(Though honestly I was really hasty when I slapped that modifier in place to patch a hole in the system, if I'd recognized the hole in advance I'd have come up with a more elegant patch that was less sharp and more gradual.)
My mistake. I should have known that. For some reason I was applying the .25 multiplier to the wrong place when I was thinking about it.
 
So quick query.

Original plan called for:

On the last week we spend 7 days doing a massive hunt in Hakone (Minamiashigara, Odawara, Hadano area = ~12 cubes) under the protection of the artifact (with Serena on guard to move to block any youma that attempt to enter Hakone area using non-teleportation). Serena is based on Mt. Hakone (different mountain) with teleport support to move her to block any attacking youma while dispatch team provides support.

Expected cubes from this: 18 vets (28 vets - the vets on the artifact, dispatch, or teleport teams) and 4 Elite pack hunting for 1/4 of a month produces 19.9 cubes.

Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM) | Page 358
Factor in 8 additional vets recruited mid month assigned to this that gives around 26 vets and 4 elites (Though honestly not sure how they arrived at 4 elites in original, Kyouko, Kyoclone, Taya were originally assigned. Seto's time was all accounted for elsewhere, so was Mami's. Now it would be Miho though.)

Then plus 9 vets that didn't want to join but wanted to help that you were going to include.

Now tricky thing is here, a great big glob of 35 vets and 4 elites does not constitute normal pack hunting. But original plan was to do it all within interdiction field.

Now this could be considered split up amongst say 6 shifts working 24/7 which would get it down to 6-7 man packs and get full pack hunting rate. Or you could eat a massive inefficiency loss of around 80% and keep them all out there at once (essentially the same yield as if you had 8 vets hunting, but a lot safer). Or you could hunt in multiple groups at the same time, but outside the protection of the interdiction artifact.
 
Back
Top