I can't see it making any sense for it to do that. The rotating tactics is designed to keep the demons from adapting to the hunters' tactics, and thus prevent them from growing stronger as quickly. Underhunting is causing them to lose those adaptations, so preventing them from developing the adaptations when they're not actually adapting to us just seems nonsensical. If anything, I would expect it to accelerate the weakening effect when underhunting.
Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)
- Thread starter inverted_helix
- Start date
Yeah I admit cutting that so much was just me not realizing before I let you guys have a perfect translator just how absurdly profitable such a thing would be. Hainako really should be making around 6k a week probably, but as I said in that quote you had not too long ago, if I gave you her full profitability then it would have been rather unbalancing.
By labor costs though I didn't mean the wages, I meant measuring cost of activities in .5 megucamonth intervals rather than smaller units like man hours. Some things probably shouldn't cost a megucamonth that I've made cost one simply for game balance purposes.
True. I actually considered having the police surveillance be entirely by drones. It would have made some sense in that it would take less manpower for them to monitor people that way. But I didn't quite like the feel of it. Plus that would have made it very unclear who was watching you, and I didn't want to prompt ultra paranoia mode in the players (which tends to make quests take really bizarre turns).
lol. I think he meant more along the lines of it being bad mannered.
Growth only. Though why you would use it during an underhunt escapes me.
Considered it, but deemed it a bit unbalancing, and the logical extension that it accelerates them dropping abilities isn't quite concrete anyways. Though incidentally demon adaptation is more magic mimicking evolution than it directly. Though there is a bit more sense to it in my world building than it might seem on the surface.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
That would depend actually. The weakening is demons responding to lower pressure than the break even point by adapting to predate against humans rather than fight against MGs. The exact form of the pressure doesn't matter as much when you're adapting to a relative lack of it, but it really matters when you're adapting too it.
Precisely.
Ok, on the scouting/diplomacy:
We're all putting elites into scouting area 1, though Haman only has Kyouko, while notgreat and I have Kyouko+Taya.
We're all recruiting in the rural areas, with Haman and I going for all three, while notgreat is skipping area 5.
We're all touching area 9, but all in different ways. notgreat is simply scouting, Haman is opening relations, and I'm putting an elite scout there because I had a spare scout unit with the Kyouko/Taya pair, and didn't really have any other strongly defined place to put it. I'd really prefer to open relations there, but I don't have the manpower, and I don't think sending Kyouko there (openly) would be a good idea since it's so close to her old territory. That might even be a point against sending Kyouko/Taya there for scouting, though I'd hope Kyouko's stealth would keep her safe there.
Beyond that, Haman is scouting area 2, and notgreat is scouting area 10, both of which are suburban areas. Not sure on the value expected from doing so, but may just be a spare half unit that has to go somewhere.
For mine, there's a bit of rearranging that I could do to get an arbitrary vet to go to area 9 to open relations, and I could move Kyouko/Taya to either scout a different area, or have them 3/4 on anti-poaching patrol, whichever seems more useful. If the map update adds an area east of Kyouko's territory, I'd be up for sending them there, as well.
Thoughts?
We're all putting elites into scouting area 1, though Haman only has Kyouko, while notgreat and I have Kyouko+Taya.
We're all recruiting in the rural areas, with Haman and I going for all three, while notgreat is skipping area 5.
We're all touching area 9, but all in different ways. notgreat is simply scouting, Haman is opening relations, and I'm putting an elite scout there because I had a spare scout unit with the Kyouko/Taya pair, and didn't really have any other strongly defined place to put it. I'd really prefer to open relations there, but I don't have the manpower, and I don't think sending Kyouko there (openly) would be a good idea since it's so close to her old territory. That might even be a point against sending Kyouko/Taya there for scouting, though I'd hope Kyouko's stealth would keep her safe there.
Beyond that, Haman is scouting area 2, and notgreat is scouting area 10, both of which are suburban areas. Not sure on the value expected from doing so, but may just be a spare half unit that has to go somewhere.
For mine, there's a bit of rearranging that I could do to get an arbitrary vet to go to area 9 to open relations, and I could move Kyouko/Taya to either scout a different area, or have them 3/4 on anti-poaching patrol, whichever seems more useful. If the map update adds an area east of Kyouko's territory, I'd be up for sending them there, as well.
Thoughts?
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I like the idea of just sending the unused Kyoko to do scouting.
The rearranging I could do:
1) If we don't want to send Kyouko in as part of any negotiations with 9, swap 0.5 of the spare Kyouko with 0.5 of a vet from hunting (or 0.5 of the vet doing the preliminary police investigation).
2) Spend a cube to get 0.5 vet from rural area 5.
3) Then have that 1 vet, or 0.5 vet+0.5 Kyouko, go to area 9 for Opening Relations.
4) Take the Kyouko/Taya scouting out of area 9. Assign them to the area east of Kyouko's territory. Add the remaining 0.5 Kyouko for a full scout unit if it's a large territory that requires 1 unit instead of 0.5.
That would allow for Opening Relations with area 9, and scouting in area X. If we don't want to open relations in area 9, then just sending the spare Kyouko to area X for scouting is also possible.
1) If we don't want to send Kyouko in as part of any negotiations with 9, swap 0.5 of the spare Kyouko with 0.5 of a vet from hunting (or 0.5 of the vet doing the preliminary police investigation).
2) Spend a cube to get 0.5 vet from rural area 5.
3) Then have that 1 vet, or 0.5 vet+0.5 Kyouko, go to area 9 for Opening Relations.
4) Take the Kyouko/Taya scouting out of area 9. Assign them to the area east of Kyouko's territory. Add the remaining 0.5 Kyouko for a full scout unit if it's a large territory that requires 1 unit instead of 0.5.
That would allow for Opening Relations with area 9, and scouting in area X. If we don't want to open relations in area 9, then just sending the spare Kyouko to area X for scouting is also possible.
Just a concern that we don't know exactly how far her reputation has spread. No specific basis, and it's not a strong point of concern for me, just a bit of caution.
Also, total scouting/diplomacy cost for mine, after the above-mentioned adjustments, would be 4 meguca units and 3 grief cubes. It gives us scouting information on 2 areas, and recruits or opens relations with 4 areas. The cost is already about the maximum I'd want to put into scouting/diplomacy actions, but what we gain from it is pretty decent.
I'd switch Kyouko with the 0.5 Vet providing stealth for the investigate police. And then maybe have Kyouko do the out reach in one of the rural areas? That way we don't have her going close to areas that would know her by reputation.
Aside from thoughts on exactly where to put Kyouko (which is easily manipulated), any comments on which areas to target? Does going for relations with 9 and scouting in X sound like the best combo? Or are there reasons we want to specifically scout 9 (or any of the other areas such as 2 and 10 from the other plans)?
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I think we really should have a bit of time dedicated the therapy. My plan's got 0.5 mami and 0.5 vets, which is roughly equivalent to each meguca spending an hour or two with Mami for the month. That seems like a pretty reasonable amount of time.
Also, don't forget that we can get an extra half-megucamonth by spending 0.5 mami in upkeep. It's a pretty good deal anytime we don't absolutely need mami's full diplomacy bonus.
If you insist upon doing the elite training, what do you think of having Taya spend some of her time doing the training? 0.5 Taya and 0.5 Mami perhaps? I still think it's a bit of a waste, but it's not a deal-breaker.
The research I'd be most willing to drop is the technology research. It doesn't help with the kevlar cover-up plan and it costs $2k over 2 months.
Also, with the introduction of decimals, I think it's a good idea to remove your caps on everywhere. Even the rural area, because we'll be combining with other rural areas which will mess up our demon strength pretty badly there.
Also, don't forget that we can get an extra half-megucamonth by spending 0.5 mami in upkeep. It's a pretty good deal anytime we don't absolutely need mami's full diplomacy bonus.
If you insist upon doing the elite training, what do you think of having Taya spend some of her time doing the training? 0.5 Taya and 0.5 Mami perhaps? I still think it's a bit of a waste, but it's not a deal-breaker.
The research I'd be most willing to drop is the technology research. It doesn't help with the kevlar cover-up plan and it costs $2k over 2 months.
Also, with the introduction of decimals, I think it's a good idea to remove your caps on everywhere. Even the rural area, because we'll be combining with other rural areas which will mess up our demon strength pretty badly there.
Heh, that definitely would've prompted ultra paranoia. Though you could've also just had QB tell us that it was the police in that case. Heck, probably would've been easy for QB to fake the footage and show whatever he needed to keep the masquerade up.
I'd prefer Taya on as much scouting and patrolling as possible, to take advantage of her innate bonus. If we're doing any of that at all (and we're doing a fair bit of it here), she ought to be in there.
On the elite training, I like the idea of keeping Mami on that for Kaoru, as that seems to fit Kaoru's probable learning patterns better (plus, omake). Technically we can postpone it without penalty, yes, so if we need those two extra bodies, that would be the next place I'd pull from. However I'd want to be very sure of the value of whatever we're redirecting things to.
Yeah. It could conceivably be used for things like magically altering computer records the police may have, but it wouldn't be done in time to really be useful.
For current turn allocations, the top three things that have been proposed that I see as 'droppable' are therapy, techno research, and elite training. I dropped the first two, but held onto the third. Haman dropped the first two, as well as the duration research.
I suppose to make a better decision, we'd want to look at what freedom we'd gain on the turn following this one. For example, would we be able to drop down to just one or two units for diplomacy/scouting, or would there be the regular push for "as much as possible"? If diplomacy allocations aren't going down, we have less freedom to adjust other options.
Also, Therapy is likely to become an upkeep item. Once started, we can't really drop it. Are we willing to permanently set aside a unit for that (and thus, not Mami)? What are you willing to trade for that?
OK.
Also, I modified the scouting/diplomacy stuff to match the adjustments I mentioned above, since no one made any notable comments regarding them. Put the half-Kyouko in hunting, but kept the 12 harvest cap.
Situation we'll have for the turn where we start RT hunting, hopefully:
+2 from elite training, if we're lucky
+1 from police investigation, if that gets resolved
+2 greens from rural recruitment, assuming there's 4 total and half of them join
4 units of unallocated diplomacy
possible conversion of another green or two to veteran
3 vets from research that get dumped into hunting, so no gain there
Of course if things go badly we may not get any of that. However in general it seems like we should have enough room to add the counselor and still fiddle around with other things. Despite more people hunting, it feels like we'll have more flexibility in what we choose to do. I'd be more willing to commit to the counselor position then.
For our current activity, I actually thought of one other idea. Can we add a 'preempt' condition? I was considering whether we could dedicate the Kyouko/Taya pair solely to scouting, but if there's any indication of unusual demon strength growth, drop whatever their assignment was and return to anti-poacher patrols.
For example, assign two or three scout actions (eg: area 1, area 9, area X), but if anything starts pinging the poacher senses, start dropping them (eg: drop 9 first, then X, then 1).
Edit: Or rather, skip areas that haven't been completed yet. For example, area 1 might be the first week, area X weeks 2-3, area 9 week 4. If poacher activity shows up in week 3, 1 is already done, X is left incomplete, and would never have gotten to 9.
+2 from elite training, if we're lucky
+1 from police investigation, if that gets resolved
+2 greens from rural recruitment, assuming there's 4 total and half of them join
4 units of unallocated diplomacy
possible conversion of another green or two to veteran
3 vets from research that get dumped into hunting, so no gain there
Of course if things go badly we may not get any of that. However in general it seems like we should have enough room to add the counselor and still fiddle around with other things. Despite more people hunting, it feels like we'll have more flexibility in what we choose to do. I'd be more willing to commit to the counselor position then.
For our current activity, I actually thought of one other idea. Can we add a 'preempt' condition? I was considering whether we could dedicate the Kyouko/Taya pair solely to scouting, but if there's any indication of unusual demon strength growth, drop whatever their assignment was and return to anti-poacher patrols.
For example, assign two or three scout actions (eg: area 1, area 9, area X), but if anything starts pinging the poacher senses, start dropping them (eg: drop 9 first, then X, then 1).
Edit: Or rather, skip areas that haven't been completed yet. For example, area 1 might be the first week, area X weeks 2-3, area 9 week 4. If poacher activity shows up in week 3, 1 is already done, X is left incomplete, and would never have gotten to 9.
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Updated scouting/diplomacy comparison chart:
Code:
Area: 1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 12 14 X
Kinematics SctE Rur Rur Rur Rel SctE
Haman SctE SctE Rur Rur Rur Rel
notgreat SctE Rur Rur Sct Sct
Sct = Scout
SctE = Scouting with Elites
Rur = Rural Diplomacy
Rel = Open RelationsI honestly just didn't think of this...
Omake: Sora's background
[x] Elder Haman
I do believe this is my first vote in the quest. It's not particularly reasoned out, I just like the specifics of Taura + stealth girl mashup and propose a puella whose profile I wrote up ages ago for consideration. She's a vet now so her magic potency probably increased enough to be able to hide more than one person under her non-detection aura.
Name: Sora
Type: Stealth
Experience: Green (joined on T6)
Age: 13
Weapon: Sickle
Uniform: Red riding hood cloak, Primary Colors: Red and Black
Combat Style: Her magic makes her more difficult to notice. Because this holds true for both foes and allies, including her in a group hunt is a tricky affair. Her combat magic isn't very potent, but she's gotten quite good at physical enhancement magic, making her strong enough to injure most demons. She's a great scout, and would be a very good assassin, but she's only a moderately useful against actual demons. Mami has informed her its only a matter of time before she can turn her blade to better use, so for now she hangs around the periphery of battles, making sure to grab the wounded and get them off the battlefield. She's gleaned some first aid off the internet, is trying to teach it to others even though grief cubes usually make that sort of thing irrelevant.
History: Unable to get over the death of her younger twin brother, Sora wished to forget him altogether in order to make the pain go away. Now, when he's referenced, she hears white noise, when she sees family photos his face is blurred out. At first people were happy - then they became concerned, then angry over her sudden indifference towards her younger brother's death. Combined with the stress of having to hunt demons on her own, she nearly had another breakdown. Fortunately, Kyuubey came back to see her before she could psyche herself up to go on her first solo hunt, and introduced her to Mami's group where she happily stays. She still misses her family though, and sometimes drops by, using her magic to catch a nap in her own bed, eat from the fridge, and puzzle over the photo albums and the blurry person. It's never for very long though as these visits tend to leave her more depressed. In what she is thinking of her past life, she was an average student whose dreams mostly revolved around singing. She knows a lot of songs meant for duet, but doesn't know why she knows them.
I do believe this is my first vote in the quest. It's not particularly reasoned out, I just like the specifics of Taura + stealth girl mashup and propose a puella whose profile I wrote up ages ago for consideration. She's a vet now so her magic potency probably increased enough to be able to hide more than one person under her non-detection aura.
Name: Sora
Type: Stealth
Experience: Green (joined on T6)
Age: 13
Weapon: Sickle
Uniform: Red riding hood cloak, Primary Colors: Red and Black
Combat Style: Her magic makes her more difficult to notice. Because this holds true for both foes and allies, including her in a group hunt is a tricky affair. Her combat magic isn't very potent, but she's gotten quite good at physical enhancement magic, making her strong enough to injure most demons. She's a great scout, and would be a very good assassin, but she's only a moderately useful against actual demons. Mami has informed her its only a matter of time before she can turn her blade to better use, so for now she hangs around the periphery of battles, making sure to grab the wounded and get them off the battlefield. She's gleaned some first aid off the internet, is trying to teach it to others even though grief cubes usually make that sort of thing irrelevant.
History: Unable to get over the death of her younger twin brother, Sora wished to forget him altogether in order to make the pain go away. Now, when he's referenced, she hears white noise, when she sees family photos his face is blurred out. At first people were happy - then they became concerned, then angry over her sudden indifference towards her younger brother's death. Combined with the stress of having to hunt demons on her own, she nearly had another breakdown. Fortunately, Kyuubey came back to see her before she could psyche herself up to go on her first solo hunt, and introduced her to Mami's group where she happily stays. She still misses her family though, and sometimes drops by, using her magic to catch a nap in her own bed, eat from the fridge, and puzzle over the photo albums and the blurry person. It's never for very long though as these visits tend to leave her more depressed. In what she is thinking of her past life, she was an average student whose dreams mostly revolved around singing. She knows a lot of songs meant for duet, but doesn't know why she knows them.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
And now we have a tie between Kinematics and Eldar Haman.
We need a tie breaker. Hopefully one who will vote against Haman's idea of having us all mysteriously disappear up into the mountains to do magic on the same day while we're under police investigation.
Also @inverted_helix, I don't suppose we could see thecasualty and hunting modifiers for Legendary Meguca before we manage to recruit one can we (just curious)? Also, I'm compling a cheat sheet of actions and statistics, and I can't find lethality for pair and pack hunting, would you mind posting them?
Edit: also here's a piece of spiral fluff: [Name]'s boyfriend broke up with her, claiming she was cheating on him, she couldn't tell him she was going hunting instead of seeing someone else. It took # cubes to console her.
We need a tie breaker. Hopefully one who will vote against Haman's idea of having us all mysteriously disappear up into the mountains to do magic on the same day while we're under police investigation.
Also @inverted_helix, I don't suppose we could see thecasualty and hunting modifiers for Legendary Meguca before we manage to recruit one can we (just curious)? Also, I'm compling a cheat sheet of actions and statistics, and I can't find lethality for pair and pack hunting, would you mind posting them?
Edit: also here's a piece of spiral fluff: [Name]'s boyfriend broke up with her, claiming she was cheating on him, she couldn't tell him she was going hunting instead of seeing someone else. It took # cubes to console her.
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For Legendary Meguca the stats are basically "You Win", casualty rate from hunting is going to pretty much always be 0 regardless of strength, and modifier will probably vary depending on just why they're Legendary.
Pack hunting lethality: 20% of casualties
Pair hunting lethality: 40% of casualties
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