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Mass Effect: The Traverse

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Kufufu said:
While it's good to have plans for a thread, I dont think anyone here wants independence anytime soon.
We are dependent on the Alliance for protection and no matter how well liked we are by the old guard they aren't going to let us go, meaning that baring extensive military action (which we couldn't support if we wanted to) we aren't gaining independence. We are too valuable an asset when it comes to ezo alone, never mind us being the training base for the N7 program, our Shipyards and the fact that we make up the majority population of Biotics in the Alliance. I haven't even started on our domestic issues, we have been struggling to field a population this entire quest, immigration is the only thing ensuring that we aren't hemorrhaging population every turn.

Not even with a string of Natural 100s would that be viable for us.
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That is true I was more in the line of though of being able to build dreadnoughts for Perkwunos itself as a semi independent colony but still otherwise fully under the SA.
 
In terms of open ended planning, it is usually better to have every item short and concise. QM and voters both have limits to their attention and effort.
 
Brogatar said:
That is true I was more in the line of though of being able to build dreadnoughts for Perkwunos itself as a semi independent colony but still otherwise fully under the SA.
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Uhh, what???? So first off semi-independent and fully under are mutually exclusive terms, never mind the stupidity required for the Alliance to allow a colony of Perkwunos' importance to become or codify itself as semi-independent. Secondly the idea that Perkwunos would be able to build a navy that could theoretically support a single dreadnought, never mind multiple dreadnoughts, is laughable. Finally, and most importantly, there is no way in hell that we would be allowed to build dreadnoughts for our own private fleet (which again we couldn't support). Dreadnoughts are regulated by the Treaty of Farixen and citadel members are restricted in how many they can construct. Having Perkwunos construct our own dreadnoughts would (rightly) be seen as humans attempting to go above the limit or would require the dumbest members of the Alliance Military to be promoted all the way up for them to decide that some of their limited dreadnoughts should not be controlled by them. For a sense of scale at the start of canon the Turians have 37 and the Alliance has 6 with a 7th under construction, we are simply too small by orders of magnitude to even consider dreadnought construction for our own use.
Article:
The Treaty of Farixen is a treaty signed by Council races limiting the number of dreadnoughts among the different Citadel races in their given fleets. At the Farixen Naval Conference, the Council races agreed to fix a ratio of dreadnought construction between themselves due to their destructive potential. At the top of the pyramid is the peacekeeping turian fleet which makes up most of the Citadel Fleet. Second, are the other Council races - the asari and the salarians. Council associate races, like the hanar and volus, are at the bottom of the list.

The ratio of turian to Council to associate dreadnoughts is 5:3:1, which essentially means for every five dreadnoughts the turians construct, the asari and salarians are allowed three, and all other Citadel races one. Signing the Treaty of Farixen is a requirement for any race wishing to open an embassy on the Citadel.

Carriers are megalithic ships that have a similar general design to that of Dreadnoughts. The only difference is that Carriers are designed to carry and transport mass amounts of vehicles, fighters, interceptors, and troops across the galaxy. Dreadnoughts are specifically designed to combat enemy ships in a space combat environment and/or bombard planetary targets. The construction of Carriers is not included in the Treaty of Farixen policy resulting in no legal limit upon building any number of Carriers for any race.

Article:
As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. As of 2185, the dreadnought count was 39 turian, 20 asari, 16 salarian, and 8 human. By 2186, humans construct a ninth dreadnought, and the volus have built a single dreadnought of their own. The geth, unbound by the treaty, possess almost as many dreadnoughts as the turians.


I don't meant to keep harping on this but what I have seen since you have taken over has me seriously concerned about the future of this quest. You have been very vague on what is happening in universe and don't seem to have a solid grasp on canon or in what ways this quest operates differently from canon.
 
wasn't the main reeason turians did not have more dreadnoughts was due to maintenance fees and the price of the amount of eezo needed to make one dreadnought?
 
tri2 said:
wasn't the main reeason turians did not have more dreadnoughts was due to maintenance fees and the price of the amount of eezo needed to make one dreadnought?
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That is one of those things that Mass Effect leaves unexplained. Though I would hazard a guess that crew requirements, necessary escort numbers, the cost of the armor/engines/powerplant/etc. would make up the bulk of the lifetime cost of the ship if not the build cost and be the primary restriction on numbers. Prior to the emergence of the Geth in ME 1 they also probably stopped below their theoretical maximum as it wasn't necessary, the US did the same thing in WWII. Other things such as do eezo cores need replacing or even how much eezo is out there are also unexplained. We, for example, know that an Omega sized find would be a big find but is that a 5% increase in Citadel supply? 10%? 50%? 100%? Are the Terminus and Citadel eezo markets separate? Free trade? Something in between? Although we have focused on military applications are there more benefits to letting it onto the civilian market and lowering the price of civilian shipbuilding? There is also the question of need. Why would we ever need a dreadnought? Why would we ever need more than one dreadnought?

It's why I did things the way I did in my plan. The Alliance military gets first pick, Citadel second, and civilian market third. We lack the information both in and out of character to know how it should be distributed so we leave it up to those who do with an eye towards first improving our own nations military and second allied militaries, which makes sense given how much we do and will rely on them for protection.
 
demonthese2211 said:
Uhh, what???? So first off semi-independent and fully under are mutually exclusive terms, never mind the stupidity required for the Alliance to allow a colony of Perkwunos' importance to become or codify itself as semi-independent. Secondly the idea that Perkwunos would be able to build a navy that could theoretically support a single dreadnought, never mind multiple dreadnoughts, is laughable. Finally, and most importantly, there is no way in hell that we would be allowed to build dreadnoughts for our own private fleet (which again we couldn't support). Dreadnoughts are regulated by the Treaty of Farixen and citadel members are restricted in how many they can construct. Having Perkwunos construct our own dreadnoughts would (rightly) be seen as humans attempting to go above the limit or would require the dumbest members of the Alliance Military to be promoted all the way up for them to decide that some of their limited dreadnoughts should not be controlled by them. For a sense of scale at the start of canon the Turians have 37 and the Alliance has 6 with a 7th under construction, we are simply too small by orders of magnitude to even consider dreadnought construction for our own use.
Article:
The Treaty of Farixen is a treaty signed by Council races limiting the number of dreadnoughts among the different Citadel races in their given fleets. At the Farixen Naval Conference, the Council races agreed to fix a ratio of dreadnought construction between themselves due to their destructive potential. At the top of the pyramid is the peacekeeping turian fleet which makes up most of the Citadel Fleet. Second, are the other Council races - the asari and the salarians. Council associate races, like the hanar and volus, are at the bottom of the list.

The ratio of turian to Council to associate dreadnoughts is 5:3:1, which essentially means for every five dreadnoughts the turians construct, the asari and salarians are allowed three, and all other Citadel races one. Signing the Treaty of Farixen is a requirement for any race wishing to open an embassy on the Citadel.

Carriers are megalithic ships that have a similar general design to that of Dreadnoughts. The only difference is that Carriers are designed to carry and transport mass amounts of vehicles, fighters, interceptors, and troops across the galaxy. Dreadnoughts are specifically designed to combat enemy ships in a space combat environment and/or bombard planetary targets. The construction of Carriers is not included in the Treaty of Farixen policy resulting in no legal limit upon building any number of Carriers for any race.

Article:
As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. As of 2185, the dreadnought count was 39 turian, 20 asari, 16 salarian, and 8 human. By 2186, humans construct a ninth dreadnought, and the volus have built a single dreadnought of their own. The geth, unbound by the treaty, possess almost as many dreadnoughts as the turians.


I don't meant to keep harping on this but what I have seen since you have taken over has me seriously concerned about the future of this quest. You have been very vague on what is happening in universe and don't seem to have a solid grasp on canon or in what ways this quest operates differently from canon.
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I do get what your saying. One thing to know about this is I still haven't gotten out of where Doomed Wombat plot lines have ended. Canon event's can change. They have a High dc that is required to do that but things will differ from canon Mass effect. I guess I am trying to help you all improve the situation and shift things further from the Canon timeline. I want Perkwunos to be a turning point for the galaxy so that the galaxy has a chance. I do admit I may get carried away and would you all to remind me when I do so.

As for Dreadnoughts you would only be able to build one for the Colony itself and it would require Council approval. Reguarding the Treaty of Farixen presuming you contact the council you may have a chance to shift the Alliance from 1 dreadnought per 5 Turian dreadnoughts to 2 dreadnoughts per 5 Turian ones. There will be other things Like possibly get another chance for a human spectere that doesn't have Shepard being the first.

There's also some very interesting complications regarding the Treaty of Farixen coming up that I have to deal with.
 
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Vote close Plan Halp wins.
Adhoc vote count started by Brogatar on Jun 19, 2019 at 9:14 PM, finished with 50 posts and 18 votes.
  • [X] Plan Halp
    -[x] Station an Alliance fleet
    -[x] Invest in expanding colony's medical system
    -[x] Station Alliance ground unit(s)
    -[x] Get Alliance to host a muti polity conference to reduce risk of invasion or acts of terrorism.
    -[x] Help us vet everything, from companies to people to foreign contacts.
    -[x] Orbital Defense platforms, be it purchasing and /or local productions.
    -[x] Alliance blessing on Perkwunos hosting business meetings to determine how to best sell non-allocated Eezo without disrupting galactic market.
    -[x] Alliance blessing for selling Eezo to military of both Alliance and Council at cost +1% for up to 75% of Perkwunos output for long term good will.
    -[x] Alliance arranged escorts for large Eezo shipments.
    -[x] Getting Alliance to contact the Council and start the process.
    -[x] Biotic related education and medical help from Alliance, and perhaps Council.
    [X] Plan Long Term Investments
    -[X] Ensure that there is some sort of sovereign wealth fund (or something with the same general purpose) for Perkwunos funded by the eezo profits.
    -[X] Use our newfound political importance to push for colony representation in Parliament when they meet some reasonable minimum standards. If Perkwunos does not meet those minimum standards ensure that Perkwunos and any other colonies that posses strategic importance, whether due to natural resources, location, special infrastructure, or other reasons, has some form of special representation for decisions pertaining to their colony.
    -[X] Subsidize the expansion of Perkwunos orbital infrastructure to the previously agreed capability of single dreadnought construction.
    --[X] If Alliance High Command thinks it is a good idea signal a willingness to expand orbital infrastructure into a full naval base, again over time and subsidized.
    -[X] Subsidize the purchase of further static defenses, within limits of course.
    -[X] Ask for a dedicated ground compliment with the fleet.
    -[X] Make them aware of Batarian escapees, make clear that escapees already on world will not be sacrificed for political expediency. Assure the Alliance that we understand the complications this introduces and while we are morally opposed to ceasing our support we understand how much more volatile the situation is now and are willing to work to minimize the risk of discovery beyond what was previously judged safe.
    -[X] Provide subsidy of reasonable size for the development of Perkwunos in general. The nature of the world naturally leads to higher costs in some things and we refuse to be restricted to being solely a resource extraction world.
    -[X] Provide support for the care and training biotic children in specific and the training of biotic persons in general.
    -[X] Offer the Alliance first right of refusal at cost for military purposes.
    --[X] Push for second right of refusal at market rates for Citadel militaries.
    ---[X] All remaining to be sold as normal.
    [X] Plan reasonable DC
    -[X] Subsidize the expansion of Perkwunos orbital infrastructure to the previously agreed capability of single dreadnought construction. +5 dc
    --[X] If Alliance High Command thinks it is a good idea signal a willingness to expand orbital infrastructure into a full naval base, again over time and subsidized. +5 dc
    -[X] Subsidize the purchase of further static defenses, within limits of course.+10 dc
    -[X] A dedicated ground compliment with the fleet. +5 dc
    -[X] Provide support for the care and training biotic children in specific and the training of biotic persons in general. +5 dc
    -[X] Alliance assistance in expanding our fuel production
    -[X] Sending new vetted immigrants in the form of miners, trill-seeking veterans, and doctors.
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Okay, got back to this(again, really need to keep on top of it...) and can I ask why people went with Cost+1%? Because that doesn't really seem to make economic sense... Cost+5% is an extremely good deal. Cost+1% is just 'what the hell?' levels of discount I'd think... At least it's only for up to 75% of production, so if we really need more we can just increase production.
 
It's an important token gesture, at cost and cost+ makes all the difference when we want to renegotiate in the future.
 
VoidZero said:
It's an important token gesture, at cost and cost+ makes all the difference when we want to renegotiate in the future.
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Cost plus five percent would have been generous enough and gained us much good will, cost plus one percent is a price that will make us look like idiots, at that point we are barely making a profit from one of the largest and purist Ezo deposits in history.
 
Kufufu said:
Cost plus five percent would have been generous enough and gained us much good will, cost plus one percent is a price that will make us look like idiots, at that point we are barely making a profit from one of the largest and purist Ezo deposits in history.
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1% out of 1million is still 100k. While 5% is 5x better and neglible compared to 100%, I think we can leverage use giving the Alliance basically free Ezzo for fleets and maybe stationing a Carrier Battlegroup in the system. We can view this as a lot of unspent favors with the SA.
 
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Kufufu said:
Cost plus five percent would have been generous enough and gained us much good will, cost plus one percent is a price that will make us look like idiots, at that point we are barely making a profit from one of the largest and purist Ezo deposits in history.
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If you argue profit of 1% out of 75% output plus profit of 100% out of 25% output is not making profit sure.

There is other plan with different breakdown. Could be 0% profit out of 100% output or 100% profit out of Alliance leftovers. Don't forget that governments also deal in business.
VoidZero threw 1 2-faced dice. Reason: Don't mind Total: 1
1 1
 
Goddamnit. People, you realise that a fucking 80% markup from shop to consumer for luxuries is a small markup. If apple makes a phone for $20 and sells it for $1000 that's a 5000% markup. We are literally selling the most valuable substance in the fucking galaxy. And 'cost+1%' means that there is barely any money coming in for reinvestment into the business or to use in any other part of running a god damn business!

Cost+1% is not the smart deal, it's not even the stupid deal, it is the Trump deal. We are all but giving them literally the most valuable substance in the galaxy. This is like if Morocco or Algeria found 99% pure uranium deposits the same size as Iran's copper deposits - (5% of the world's supply of copper) - 32.5 million tons and then just gave it to France.
 
@Pyro Hawk

As for current price that is kept vague by default.

Nodding along to somewhat annoyed Though I am interpreting this as Production of the lode of eezo just found and the rest of the production will still be sold as normal.
 
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Motherlode 3
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    • Motherlode 3


    Plan Halp Roll 93+17+60=170 Passed with flying colors


    [X] Plan Halp

    -[x] Station an Alliance fleet

    -[x] Invest in expanding colony's medical system

    -[x] Station Alliance ground unit(s)

    -[x] Get Alliance to host a muti polity conference to reduce risk of invasion or acts of terrorism.

    -[x] Help us vet everything, from companies to people to foreign contacts.

    -[x] Orbital Defense platforms, be it purchasing and /or local productions.

    -[x] Alliance blessing on Perkwunos hosting business meetings to determine how to best sell non-allocated Eezo without disrupting galactic market.

    -[x] Alliance blessing for selling Eezo to military of both Alliance and Council at cost +1% for up to 75% of Perkwunos output for long term good will.

    -[x] Alliance arranged escorts for large Eezo shipments.

    -[x] Getting Alliance to contact the Council and start the process.

    -[x] Biotic related education and medical help from Alliance, and perhaps Council.




    Spending a few minutes thinking things through of what would be best or high needs for Perkwunos and for the Alliance as a whole.


    "First of all I would prefer a full fleet stationed in Perkwunos. As well as a ground unit for the protection of the colony from any landers and any attacks from wildlife. When the magnitude of this discovery gets out and given our location just outside of the Terminus and the cluster being connected to the Phoenix Massing cluster, Perkwunos is in a rather precarious position if any Warlord decides to take a stab at us."


    "Agreed. Though this will play hell with our deployment through the Traverse and Alliance Space."


    "I do have a plan for that. I plan to sell this node of eezo to both the Alliance and the Council Nations though more specifically the Hierarchy at cost plus 1% under the caveat that it is used only for military use. The other nodes of eezo will remain at their current price."


    Watching the expressions as they connect the dots. "That would be very helpful in keeping costs down and give us the ability to rapidly increase various productions of equipment. And with the corresponding freeing of eezo for civilian production will have a cascading effect on growth for us down the line in a couple years after you start the actual mining of this node."


    "Also it would be preferable to have some escorts for when we ship large shipments of eezo going out to other Alliance shipyards or Council ones. Also it would be nice if the Alliance would help vet the incoming immigrants as well as corporations and contracts that will no doubt be flowing in after this is announced or makes its way to public knowledge."


    "Both are reasonable and necessary. I think a cruiser squadron and attendant escorts would be best. At least the starting leg from Perkwunos till they reach closer to our inner worlds. As for the vetting … Yes, especially to make sure no leftovers of Cerberus, if any, are able to resurface in some way."


    "Next on the list would be more orbital defense platforms. Both for closer in with stronger sensors and some to cover medium to long range. The sensor one's because of the stealth ships in the attack last year and on the off chance any stealth ships or shuttles will be easier found on the inbound. The Batarians might try to sabotage the deposit or light it up. Local or production from elsewhere will work."


    "Indeed that part is something we hadn't thought of in great depth. Approved, though they will likely come from one of the Citadel militaries." Chris speaks up quickly. "Preferably Turian or Asari. The Salarians are likely to have hidden parts so the STG can bypass them."


    "The next on the list is a possibly having the Alliance to host a multi-polity conference to reduce the risk of terrorism or invasion. Not sure how to work that out myself. I'll pass it back to get some more specifics on that one."


    "A reasonable idea and one I can see benefit to though it does need a little more work on specifics."


    "Next are several loosely connected ideas. I presume you will be contacting the Council after this meeting, sir?"


    "Yes. Better to be forthright and open about this from the start. Especially with your plan on supplying the militaries with eezo. I'll tie you in after I actually get a hold of them."



    "Right. Next are three loosely tied at the center but not with all. The first is expanding the Perkwunos' medical infrastructure to handle the increased injuries we will have. Though this also connects to an issue that has slowly been appearing since the colony was founded. Perkwunos currently has 1720 biotic children 10 and under. From what I understand it is the single largest concentration of biotic potential in the Alliance by a good margin. Also 300+ of those were born in the last year. A marked increase I don't know if it's just a one year jump or the start of a new trend. The biggest problem is with the health of those children. We don't have the necessary knowledge or resources right now to help with the larger issues that come up. I would like to petition that Perkwunos hosts whatever new biotic training program the Alliance comes up with. Also, I would like to bring in more doctors from the Asari to help diagnose and head off any issues as puberty starts."

    "Yes I'd say Perkwunos has the highest amount of biotic children per population. And with that many and possible continuation of the trends you're seeing sending all those children to somewhere else would make things harder. I do approve your requests on that matter. Also, we will be sending you the children that were being experimented on by Cerberus on Pragia. There aren't that many and they also have medical problems of the medical sort though there is also one 8 year old who apparently was the main target to improve with tests they put on the others to see if it helped before any "positive" results were applied to her. Sadly none of the scientists survived by the end of the raid. If only so that we could get information on what they did so we could help the children."


    "Ok… Lastly I'd like your blessing on hosting several business meetings on how to best sell the non-allocated eezo without disrupting the eezo market. I'd rather not have Aria be upset at the colony with this new find. I also have meetings scheduled with the Volus this year and would prefer to discuss this with them."


    "Agreed. Aria targeting you is a concern though any retaliation is likely more aimed at the Alliance then you specifically. If that is all, I'll dismiss this meeting and contact the Council so stay on the line, Governor. I will have a direct comline installed so you can contact me directly and don't have to go through Chris to get to me rapidly."​
     
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    • so does this mean next turn when we're deciding what to do medical research will automatically get upgrade or that we'll just get a huge bonus/discount if we pick it?
     
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