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Magical Girl Home Base Quest

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Mount. Elements said:
I am a bit confused on one topic though-What benefit is it to us that Calypso is clearing a bunch of rooms? Apparently, Homer or the MC still needs to put in work to make the rooms become available for rent. Can we work on two rooms per turn instead of one if both are cleared?
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It means that we don't have to use actions, or Homer, to clear those rooms before we can make them livable.
 
Mount. Elements said:
But doesn't making a room liveable only cost one action anyway?
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No. You need one turn to unshit the room- pull out the furniture and carpets, bleach everything, fix the door, quanrentine the pipes, disable the electricity, rip out the old NM cable, bleach everything again, and put a new coat of paint up as a sealant for the lead paint underneath. Later, to make the room livable, you need to install a new flooring, finish painting the walls, install furniture, your own janktastic extension cord system, your unit plumbing, and then it's ready to go.
 
Wait, so we do have power? Do we have some kinda generator or are we tapping the grid? Is the water the same, tapping off the city line, or is there a rain collecter on the roof for a gravity feed?
 
Spectral Waltz said:
She is a murderous bastard who was also helping a bunch of like-minded murderous bastard and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that she's turned over a new leaf or even had a change of heart on the whole thing.

By my reading of her so far she is -at best- ruthlessly pragmatic, which is to say she'll betray us the moment it's more convenient for her to do so.

What I think is more likely is that she's a disaffected coward who'll steal our shit and then go on the run.
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As has been said before, we have no confirmation of any of that. We don't even know if she has killed someone indirectly, much less directly, and she doesn't seem to really follow the nazi doctrine, so all we know about her is this: she made part of the alchemists, she was captured by our girls instead of killed, she tried to lie and failed, then helped us do a curse breaking and almost died for it, now she has three pieces of cursed (or ex cursed) sword in her body. It's not much, and really doesn't say much about her personality. For all we know alchemists could be mind controlled, pargmatic or each following a diferent dream (like reviving a dead mom, alchemy) because we know almost nothing of their group or even the groups ideologies.

Thus, yes, we should keep an eye on her and not simply trust her, but killing her for something we don't even know she did... Doesn't sit right with me. And that's another thing about power, you know? It's harder to keep someone contained than to kill them, but we do have enough power in our base to contain her, and this should only grow, with more girls and better equipment, maybe even base protections.

Happerry said:
I mean, while this is true, the counterpart truth I feel people taking your position are ignoring is that wands still don't beat out trinkets.

Both are critical to have, both are equally 'really do not want to do without', and we just made two wands. We should be making other stuff next because that other stuff is needed just as badly as more wands.
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I'll disagree here. Trinkets and bombs are not 'really do not want to do without', the only reason you even see it as this is because we started with it on lv3. Think about it, if we had all our craftings on lvl1, and seeing their effects (AKA: wand main weapon, costume armor with extras, trinket bits of diferent extras, bombs big effects but consumable) a trinket is explicitly not the 'necessary' kind, it is the extra that can make them stronger, it is the acessory in a rpg game, it can make a lot of difference, but is not owrth much without the rest.

That said, it would be if they were all the same level, they aren't, right now trinkets are probably still better for protecting our girls than lvl1 costumes, so I'll still be voting for a trinket next turn, especially since we have a girl that seems to always get hurt, who wants to play with illusions... Also because we got the wand situation under control.
 
Happerry said:
I mean, while this is true, the counterpart truth I feel people taking your position are ignoring is that wands still don't beat out trinkets.

Both are critical to have, both are equally 'really do not want to do without', and we just made two wands. We should be making other stuff next because that other stuff is needed just as badly as more wands.
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Well yeah,I did say we should switch over to something else(and I am in fact a fan of the rotating trinket-wand idea),but I was trying to tell the other poster that focusing on the Trinkets to ignore everything else is not a good idea because each piece of equipment has their specific role and that he's sorely mistaken about what a trinket actually does.
Actually,let me ask you a question,aside from it being the highest level stuff we can build,what's your argument for placing a trinket above a wand in importance? And aside from the argument 'all our equipment is badly needed' argument. In terms of importance,I feel like we should giving the girls wands first,then trinkets,then costumes,then bombs.
 
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The truth is they cared about their bodies and health VERY much, even then they were still happy to harm themselves with meth for the sake of killing the inferior....
Then there are the mad scientists that decided to take advantage of the situation to learn more about the human body, in very unethical ways of course!!!:whistle:
 
7734 said:
The fact they couldn't actually grow tobacco to become autarkic in that market probably had absolutely nothing to do with that, no sir.
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Part of it was that, a bigger part was that Hitler was also a huge health nut, vegetarian, no alcohol, etc. He was also suuuuper pushy about it, in the way those kinds of people can be insufferable. Just another reason to hate him. He was fucking insufferable about diet, and was absolutely the worst kind of pushy asshole in even formal meetings where other people were eating meat. And yes, he did eventually plan to legislate towards his weird health nut tendencies. Because.....well he was insane.
 
Happerry said:
I mean, while this is true, the counterpart truth I feel people taking your position are ignoring is that wands still don't beat out trinkets.

Both are critical to have, both are equally 'really do not want to do without', and we just made two wands. We should be making other stuff next because that other stuff is needed just as badly as more wands.
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Our Magical Girls are out there fighting for their lives. Wands are their primary weapon and the most critical piece of kit in my reading, if someone doesn't have a Wand we're better off getting them a Wand than producing anything else (barring a wider tier gap than one step).

Other items help in non-direct combat and, as we've seen, also support combat tricks. So it's better to give a T3 Trinket to someone with a T1 Wand than it is to upgrade her to a T3 Wand. Otherwise producing high end equipment when Wands are needed is like giving the infantryman a set of powered armor when they don't have a rifle.

Priorities: [Empty slots first!] Wand - Trinket/Costume (either) - Bombs - Upgrading Trinket - Upgrading Wand - Upgrading Costume - Upgrading Bombs

Imagine being able to worry about moving someone from T2 Bombs to T5 bombs :V
 
kelllogo said:
Our Magical Girls are out there fighting for their lives. Wands are their primary weapon and the most critical piece of kit in my reading, if someone doesn't have a Wand we're better off getting them a Wand than producing anything else (barring a wider tier gap than one step).

Other items help in non-direct combat and, as we've seen, also support combat tricks. So it's better to give a T3 Trinket to someone with a T1 Wand than it is to upgrade her to a T3 Wand. Otherwise producing high end equipment when Wands are needed is like giving the infantryman a set of powered armor when they don't have a rifle.

Priorities: [Empty slots first!] Wand - Trinket/Costume (either) - Bombs - Upgrading Trinket - Upgrading Wand - Upgrading Costume - Upgrading Bombs

Imagine being able to worry about moving someone from T2 Bombs to T5 bombs :V
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As much as I'd like to get to that point, I don't think we ever will 😅 I mean, think about it, once we start to get some time of peace, we upgrade our place and workshop, and with time we will get more girls in the area, or we'll expand to bigger areas... Besides, bombs are consumable, so if they're lasting enough that we would need to upgrade them, something is very fishy.
 
Metrux said:
I'll disagree here. Trinkets and bombs are not 'really do not want to do without', the only reason you even see it as this is because we started with it on lv3. Think about it, if we had all our craftings on lvl1, and seeing their effects (AKA: wand main weapon, costume armor with extras, trinket bits of diferent extras, bombs big effects but consumable) a trinket is explicitly not the 'necessary' kind, it is the extra that can make them stronger, it is the acessory in a rpg game, it can make a lot of difference, but is not owrth much without the rest.
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...So what I'm hearing here is that next time you play an RPG or an MMO game I should remove all of your buff, debuff, and utility effects because they aren't essential and are only an accessory. The enemy can keep their own of course, it's not like the effects are important anyway so the enemy having them won't change anything.

Because no worthwhile character ever focuses on support effects. Like healing.
 
Happerry said:
...So what I'm hearing here is that next time you play an RPG or an MMO game I should remove all of your buff, debuff, and utility effects because they aren't essential and are only an accessory. The enemy can keep their own of course, it's not like the effects are important anyway so the enemy having them won't change anything.

Because no worthwhile character ever focuses on support effects. Like healing.
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He's saying that we should be focusing on giving these girls something to attack with first before giving them trinkets, which have extra effects. I don't think that's hard to understand. And since we already built two wands,this turn we can make and give a trinket to someone else.
In most RPGs,debuffs aren't really worth a damn over simply picking the biggest attack spell and nuking the enemy to oblivion with it,outside of few circumstances. But here's something you didn't think about,what if those theoretical MG's with more supportive/debuff skillsets are going out into the field?(and most likely,they are because they need to raid bases for currency)
MGs,even those that have more supportive skills, still need something to attack with if they're going out onto the field at all and not simply staying at home as I really doubt that their teammates will be able to protect them all the time like an RPG or MMO. So basically, what if the girls with more support skill sets are going out onto the field?(and hell,if the enemy's smart,they will gun for the healer)


KreenWarrior said:
I don't think it's quite as simple as the pro-wand camp is making it out to be, but suffice it to say this has been litigated heavily in the thread at this point. 😅
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And the same can be said for the pro-trinket camp.So what's your point here? I don't think the pro-wand side is saying to ignore trinkets all together like you think they're doing,but wands as a priority should come first then people can do trinkets. What about that is really bad? Honestly,I'm sick of Trinkets vs. Wands debate and it's sort of killing my enjoying in this quest I don't want to bring this up anymore.
 
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I mean, my point was always that both are vital to have and we shouldn't monofocus on either, so...

That's why, since we just made two wands, I want to make a Trinket next.

Also, you've definitely been playing different RPGs then I have, because, yes, while games often make buffs weaksauce, you've also got the other hand where some games make them vital to win at all.
 
Happerry said:
I mean, my point was always that both are vital to have and we shouldn't monofocus on either, so...

That's why, since we just made two wands, I want to make a Trinket next.

Also, you've definitely been playing different RPGs then I have, because, yes, while games often make buffs weaksauce, you've also got the other hand where some games make them vital to win at all.
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Yes,I know there are RPGs where debuffs are actually important in game,but from what I've seen they're on the rare side.(SMT is the only one I know off the top of my head)
And that's where we're going to disagree as I simply don't think that the jack of all trades trinket is as important as an actual attacking tool when it comes to stuff we should be equipping MGs with first when their equipment breaks.
Not that it matters, since like I've been saying, I'm a fan of the rotating out Trinkets-wands compromise once we've finished equipping the MGs with one of the categories and I'm probably voting for a Trinket this round too. And if they actually request for something in particular that's going to factor in more too.
Like I said, I just want the thread as a whole to drop the Trinket vs Wand debate since it's going in circles,nobody is changing anyone's mind on a position, and it being brought up repeatedly every single time we choose to make something is sapping my interest in this quest. I'm..just tired of it.
 
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7734 said:
[] Throw her out: her work here is done, and quite frankly a lot of the girls here have a professional interest in killing her. Their respect for you only goes so far.
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I'm actually wondering if the MGs are going to be ticked off about us keeping the alchemist around so we have to do something to keep them happy. The MGs renting from us especially are going to have reasons to be upset about an enemy hanging around where they sleep. I wouldn't be surprised if we have to upgrade the building just to keep them all happy. Hopefully, the two wands will help, but I'm still not sure how the GM will handle the Level 3 wand if none of our rentees can afford it.
 
So instead let's talk about working on some rooms, which brings up a question that was asked before but I'm not sure was ever answered. The spreadsheet says we have a construction speed of 1.5. I'm assuming that one construction point is equal to one room getting built. So does the .5 mean we get half of another room done, or does it just run off into nothing? Because if it's the former, then if we make a room livable this turn we should really commit to doing it again the turn after, since that would get us two rooms for one action.
 
Happerry said:
...So what I'm hearing here is that next time you play an RPG or an MMO game I should remove all of your buff, debuff, and utility effects because they aren't essential and are only an accessory. The enemy can keep their own of course, it's not like the effects are important anyway so the enemy having them won't change anything.

Because no worthwhile character ever focuses on support effects. Like healing.
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Happerry said:
I mean, my point was always that both are vital to have and we shouldn't monofocus on either, so...

That's why, since we just made two wands, I want to make a Trinket next.

Also, you've definitely been playing different RPGs then I have, because, yes, while games often make buffs weaksauce, you've also got the other hand where some games make them vital to win at all.
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Well, you can remove all m buffs and support, and keep in the enemy, if you take all attack and defence from him. THAT is what I'm saying. And our girls mostly don't work on teams, only in big missions they do that, so without a means to fight on their own, they can't do much. But as I already said earlier, I'll still probabl be voting for a trinket or upgrade this turn, since right now we are kinda fine with the wands.

LunarDreams said:
He's saying that we should be focusing on giving these girls something to attack with first before giving them trinkets, which have extra effects. I don't think that's hard to understand. And since we already built two wands,this turn we can make and give a trinket to someone else.
In most RPGs,debuffs aren't really worth a damn over simply picking the biggest attack spell and nuking the enemy to oblivion with it,outside of few circumstances. But here's something you didn't think about,what if those theoretical MG's with more supportive/debuff skillsets are going out into the field?(and most likely,they are because they need to raid bases for currency)
MGs,even those that have more supportive skills, still need something to attack with if they're going out onto the field at all and not simply staying at home as I really doubt that their teammates will be able to protect them all the time like an RPG or MMO. So basically, what if the girls with more support skill sets are going out onto the field?(and hell,if the enemy's smart,they will gun for the healer)



And the same can be said for the pro-trinket camp.So what's your point here? I don't think the pro-wand side is saying to ignore trinkets all together like you think they're doing,but wands as a priority should come first then people can do trinkets. What about that is really bad? Honestly,I'm sick of Trinkets vs. Wands debate and it's sort of killing my enjoying in this quest I don't want to bring this up anymore.
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LunarDreams said:
Yes,I know there are RPGs where debuffs are actually important in game,but from what I've seen they're on the rare side.(SMT is the only one I know off the top of my head)
And that's where we're going to disagree as I simply don't think that the jack of all trades trinket is as important as an actual attacking tool when it comes to stuff we should be equipping MGs with first when their equipment breaks.
Not that it matters, since like I've been saying, I'm a fan of the rotating out Trinkets-wands compromise once we've finished equipping the MGs with one of the categories and I'm probably voting for a Trinket this round too. And if they actually request for something in particular that's going to factor in more too.
Like I said, I just want the thread as a whole to drop the Trinket vs Wand debate since it's going in circles,nobody is changing anyone's mind on a position, and it being brought up repeatedly every single time we choose to make something is sapping my interest in this quest. I'm..just tired of it.
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And I feel you, it keeps saping at our will to keep hearing the same argument every single time. But whatever, if the thread burns down because of it, then be it, I'll try not to keep this going.

Mount. Elements said:
I'm actually wondering if the MGs are going to be ticked off about us keeping the alchemist around so we have to do something to keep them happy. The MGs renting from us especially are going to have reasons to be upset about an enemy hanging around where they sleep. I wouldn't be surprised if we have to upgrade the building just to keep them all happy. Hopefully, the two wands will help, but I'm still not sure how the GM will handle the Level 3 wand if none of our rentees can afford it.
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I don't think we have to worry about things like "Do they have enough to pay?" since most of the time they have paid with whatever they had in hands, without much worry for actual costs. The thing is, what we give them, is something they basically can't get anywhere else, thus we choose whaterver price we want. And since we do this to help them, and not to become rich, we'll accept any price the girl that needs it the most offers. Now, there are some exceptions. For example, this turn we might get to choose who gets each wand, since both are getting a wand, we can give the better one to who is paying better. This is also fair, and shouldn't be upsetting people.

Still... Most of the time, we should just strive to be paid at least a bit more than the cost in materials, since we need some extra to run the building through the weeks.
 
Nottheunmaker said:
So instead let's talk about working on some rooms, which brings up a question that was asked before but I'm not sure was ever answered. The spreadsheet says we have a construction speed of 1.5. I'm assuming that one construction point is equal to one room getting built. So does the .5 mean we get half of another room done, or does it just run off into nothing? Because if it's the former, then if we make a room livable this turn we should really commit to doing it again the turn after, since that would get us two rooms for one action.
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I'm..not sure about that. It would be great if construction worked like you said.
 
Metrux said:
I don't think we have to worry about things like "Do they have enough to pay?" since most of the time they have paid with whatever they had in hands, without much worry for actual costs. The thing is, what we give them, is something they basically can't get anywhere else, thus we choose whaterver price we want. And since we do this to help them, and not to become rich, we'll accept any price the girl that needs it the most offers. Now, there are some exceptions. For example, this turn we might get to choose who gets each wand, since both are getting a wand, we can give the better one to who is paying better. This is also fair, and shouldn't be upsetting people.

Still... Most of the time, we should just strive to be paid at least a bit more than the cost in materials, since we need some extra to run the building through the weeks.
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We just haven't seen very many sales so far so I'm not positive on how it works. I think the only sales have been:

1) Sale of a Level 1 wand to Trompdoy for 20 Mundane (we voted for this)
2) Sale of a magic nuke scroll to Ouroburos for scrolls and materials (we didn't vote for this)
3) Sale of a Level 3 trinket to Calypso for materials and clearing out the second and third floors (we didn't specifically vote for this, but we voted to make a trinket after she said she really needed gear)

At least 2 MGs who aren't renting from us have expressed an interest in buying magical gear, and I expect news of the Level 3 wand to have spread far and wide. I'm fully expecting Eowyn to put in an offer on one of the wands, and I'd be happy to sell her one. If Calypso and Mistletoe don't have the resources to buy a wand, will our only offers be from MGs who aren't renting from us? Will we have a choice between getting a small amount of materials from a rentee MG or a large amount from a non-rentee? Or will the GM come up with some form of work for a rentee MG to make up the difference?

I'm really looking forward to the next update and not just because it's an update. I want answers.
 
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