Looking Glass (MLP)

I dunno man, if Page upsets Fluttershy, Discord's liable to yeet him out of the dimension. Then there'd be no telling where he'd end up.
 
Do you guys really think it's Celestia that trained him like this? She may have helped him improve in political maneuvering, but the cold plays are all him
 
Here he is beating himself up over his choices, when really it's just making people think and understand the consequences of their actions.
It reminds me somewhat of Equestria House of the Sun.

Looking at a royal guard with a cutie mark in protecting people, asking "Wouldn't you do anything for your princess? Wouldn't you die for her?"

Certainly reminded the guard the core of what it is he does, and emboldened them to go on deadly expeditions to help the princess
 
So what pony? Fluttershy is out, simply because he said specifically "Pony" and if you follow his lingo, he uses either name, Thestral or Bat when referencing his people.

He said Luna couldn't hold the torch so she is out.

Celestia is out for obvious reasons

So maybe Sunset? She was considered for the position of Element of Magic and is the next in line to take over the mantle.

It's not midnight, I wouldn't put it past her to either hold the spell hostage or even memory wipe both herself and Starlight
 
So maybe Sunset? She was considered for the position of Element of Magic and is the next in line to take over the mantle.
So first off, if Page refers to anyone by race, it is specifically to specify appellations as pertains to that individual's identity. Elsewise, he calls them pony just like everyone else in Equistria does when they talk about a mixed group, or non group specific "they". So, the reasoning that they aren't a thestral because of pronoun use, is incorrect.

Secondly. No Sunset wasn't. Celestia isn't the one whom decides whom got what Element of Harmony. Celestia was also going by her own experience with the elements that she determined that Sunset is a element bearer. And she's right, the second Equstria Girls movie shows that Sunset is a SEVENTH Element.

What this means, is that Sunset's element, like Twilight's, is a reciprocal element that can use the other elements. And Celestia proved that that element can channel all seven themselves. It is actually very likely that Twilight can channel Sunset's element as well, what since Twilight with the aid of five bearers of the five base Elements of Harmony, was able to cure Luna of Nightmare Moon. Meaning that Twilight's Element. The element of Friendship, by the way. Not magic as is, very often incorrectly attributed, mainly by misinterpreting Twilight from the series itself. While, yes, Friendship "is" magic. The phrase is about the power of friendship being enough to create a magic all of its own. Not that it is, literally, magic. But anyways, Twilight's Element is a base pair reciprocal with Sunset's, specifically. Since, you've already demonstrated that you didn't catch that, and I've only ever seen snippits of the series and caught that, I'll just tell you straight up. Sunset's Element is Love. Friendship, and Love. Two things that need each other to function, based on Kindness, Laughter, Generosity, Honesty, and Loyalty. It's explicitly why the two sisters were able to use the six foci in the first place. Celestia was Love previously, and Luna was Friendship.

Which, thanks to the last season, we also learned why she went Nightmare Moon, and got a Mic drop on a second set of Elements. Thanks to Starswirl, the Element of Self Confidence (Currently Trixie Lula Moon); the Element of Friendship was marred by betrayal; when Starswirl, believing that by not asking either for permission, or advice; that his apprentice Stygian (sp?) was enacting a dark ritual, because of course thinking for one's self must mean eeeeeeevuuuuaaaal, turned the other Elements of Harmony against the Element of Friendship. This basically started a curse on the Element of Friendship. When isolated and cornered, they get taken over by the panic made manifest. Luna to Nightmare Moon, Stygian into the Pony of Shadows, .... Human Twilight into Midnight Sparkle. (Princess Twi passed off her curse when she shared the Elements of Harmony with the Human counterparts to her friends)

But that's a tangent; further proof that Sunset is the Element of Love is in how she used the base five elements to power up, and win, without fighting, against Midnight Sparkle. She used compassion, it was super effective. Twilight, in Element of Friendship mode would have used understanding, "Defenses were lowered" then follow that with disappointment, "double damage received."


Sorry about the rant. Just... someone was demonstrably wrong on the internet. I felt the overwhelming urge to not allow this misapprehension to continue on. That continuing under it, might actually lead to problems for them if their faulty understanding was allowed to continue to exist. It's rare, but I do get the need to actually correct someone. Not the ones that I can ignore, those I'm aware is just my opinion. But when the urge just won't stop nagging at me, it typically means that allowing someone to continue in that vain of misinformation either means they're deliberately spreading misinformation, which I assume isn't the case here. Or that their continued belief in that misinformation could lead to trouble for them somewhere down the line. I never find out why.
 
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That is amazing! I don't think I've ever seen someone talk about other Elements before. If I'm understanding correctly, there can be multiple core elements for wielding the Element of Magic? Love, Friendship, and Self Confidence? Unless I am misinterpreting your words
 
That is amazing! I don't think I've ever seen someone talk about other Elements before. If I'm understanding correctly, there can be multiple core elements for wielding the Element of Magic? Love, Friendship, and Self Confidence? Unless I am misinterpreting your words
Eh, kinda. The Base Five, Kindness, Honesty, Loyalty, Laughter and Generosity; are just that, base Elements that empower, and support their unifying Elements. Love and Friendship. Which are reciprocal Elements that utilize each other to function. I.E. Friendship needs some Love within it to be friends, along with basing its development from the base five; and Love needs Friendship to truly flourish, using the base five to develop from.

Self Confidence however was merely hinted at, along with the Cutie Map adventures. So far we have a good idea that Trixie and Starlight are from a second, entirely separate, set of Harmonious Elements. With Trixie being Self Confidence. And strong hints that Starlight is Acceptance, a unifying Element of the second set. We were further given hints of Memory, and Patience from Equstria Girl mini-series using the Memory Stone, and the Time Watch. Thereby implying that Imagination is a fourth base Element of the second set, with no clear indication of the fifth base Element, and then there's the Theatrical MLP The Movie. It was very clearly an adapted Made for TV storyline that wasn't ready, meaning that Temptest/Fizzlepop Berry Twist was a conceptual character that would eventually become the second Unifying Element in this second Set, but based on her story arc, is why I think Starlight's Unifying Element is Acceptance, since Temptest's was foreshadowed as Forgiveness.

Basically, they did a seven Element set with the Mane Six, and Sunset, that dealt with Emotional Harmony, and were building toward a second seven Element set starting with Starlight, and Trixie, hinting at Walflower, and that musician girl that used the Watch, plus Temptest. All centered around Mental Harmony. Big problem there however, is that while two is a prime number, and seven is a prime number, the combine number of Elements added up to fourteen. And since this was a whole Emotions make magic work, with SCIENCE... that would destabilize the whole set, meaning there was a hint of foreshadow of a third Set, much smaller. Just three members in fact. 17 total, three groups, with primes each, all unifying into a singular whole. Basically five sets of primes. Also, they were setting up for the reveal of the third set, as a redemption arc for this third set; during the Repeated day that Sunset was experiencing with Pinkie. The Sirens.

All told, there were set up the Seven Elements of Emotional Harmony, the Seven Elements of Mental Harmony, the Three Elements of Harmonious Spirit, Making the Three Sets of Unity, totaling seventeen characters, for a group of Five Sets of Primes.

{edit}
If I'm understanding correctly, there can be multiple core elements for wielding the Element of Magic?
Again. There is not, never was, no matter what Ponies/Bronies claim; an Element of Magic. It is the Element of Friendship, the phrasing "Friendship is Magic" is meant to convey that friendship is a magic all of its own. But is not, was never meant to be, and is widely misinterpreted by fans otherwise, to be an "Element of Magic." It is not. No matter how much some may wish it.
 
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That is fascinating. So the "element" that Twilight wields is friendship and specific to her? Or is it a composite that Sunset could also wield?

I was thinking three sets of seven, as seven and three are both powerful numbers magic wise, though using primes is fun as well. Also find it intriguing that Sunset and Twilight count as unifying elements making the base seven instead of six. I always enjoyed the two pegasi, two unicorn, two earth pony set of the harmony wielders, you can imagine my upset when Twilight broke the balance by becoming an alicorn.

Do you have any guesses for that final set, or not enough info?
 
That is fascinating. So the "element" that Twilight wields is friendship and specific to her? Or is it a composite that Sunset could also wield?
Given that Celestia, the previous wielder of the Element of Love was able to use her sister's Element of Friendship, when banishing Nightmare Moon, to the Moon. Yes, either reciprocal Unifying Element of a Harmonious group can use the other's reciprocal Element. The big reason Celestia wasn't able to cure her sister is because she also had to divide her attention between the other five base elements, as well as Friendship, and her Element of Love. Meaning, she was only able to bring to bear a fraction of the power of the Elements of Emotional Harmony and thus only able to banish Nightmare Moon, instead of curing Luna.

{edit} Just recognized a portion of the question. The answer is somewhat. Yes, the Element that Twilight wields is specifically Friendship. It could be said to be specific to her, in that she would encompass what Friendship is/was. However, the part that makes both Friendship, and Love reciprocal, is that while you can have either without the other. You don't truly establish lasting, meaningful, long term relationships of either without some portion of the other to balance them. After all, they are referred to as the Elements of Harmony for a reason. So both need some of the other to truly establish themselves in anyone's life. Hence why the Unifying Elements of Harmony can be used by the other wielder of the reciprocal Unifying Element.

I was thinking three sets of seven, as seven and three are both powerful numbers magic wise, though using primes is fun as well. Also find it intriguing that Sunset and Twilight count as unifying elements making the base seven instead of six. I always enjoyed the two pegasi, two unicorn, two earth pony set of the harmony wielders, you can imagine my upset when Twilight broke the balance by becoming an alicorn.
Yes, numerologically, three sevens would have worked. But the world of Equistria worked out magic into a Science, meaning primes would hold precedence in place of numerology. This means that the final result would have to maintain a repetition pattern of prime numbers... With the Elements of Emotional Harmony being seven, the Elements of Mental Harmony implied at being seven, but only five or three would work for the Elements of Spiritual Harmony, while leaving a total prime number for all three groups when added together. And really, the only reason I'm reasonably certain that it's three, is that I believe that two of the three would be Harmonious Heart, and Harmonious Mind, leaving the third to be the Unifying Element of Harmonious Self.

As to Twilight ascending to Alicorn, that was likely to place an emphasis on Friendship being key to making a Harmonious Heart work. Meaning, with Sunset there would still be two ponies from each tribe, with Twilight demonstrating what can be accomplished working together.

Do you have any guesses for that final set, or not enough info?
Power titles, or character identities? If the characters, I'm fairly certain it was hinted at that there was going to be a redemption arc for The Sirens, turning them into the Elements of Spiritual Harmony. If the Power Titles, I'm fairly certain that there were going to be base Elements of Harmonious Mind, and Harmonious Heart, Unifying into the Element of Harmonious Self (Soul/Spirit... kind of unclear which direction they were going to go with that one) As to which characters of the Sirens where which... I really never learned their names, but the leader would be the Unifying Element, I think part of the redemption arc was likely to reveal that they were cursed into becoming the Sirens by perverting their Elemental connection. So, the other two could really be either/or of the two Harmonious bases.
 
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"What are you up to?"

I blinked, trying to force the sleep from my eyes as I slowly swung from my tail, rotating towards the voice, "Huh?" I asked smartly.

Midnight stood a couple of hooves width from my muzzle, "What are you up to?"

I was going to answer, but instead I yawned and rubbed my eyes with a pastern,"...What time is it?" I grumbled, squeezing my eyes closed against the bright lights.

"It's noon. And answer the question, bat. Why do I have a pegasus here to see you and why did Princess Celestia come back this morning to tell me that I had her blessing if I wanted to leave?"

"Noon?" I didn't quite whine and squeezed my eyes closed, wrapping myself tighter in my wings.

"Gah!" was the next sound from me as a violet and somewhat violent aura surrounded me and pulled me down from the perch, shaking me in place, "Iiiii caaaaaannnnnt aaaaannnnswwweeerr wwwwhhiiiilllleeee yyyyooouuu sssssshhhhhaaaaakeeeee mmeeeee!"

Midnight turned me around and plopped me down on my hooves, "Well?"

Yep, that's her 'I'm not kidding' face. Sparks had one too, and when she did that you best be good.

I took a breath and tried to get my head to stop spinning, "I simply talked with Celestia. And the pegas-"

"I'm not blind, I recognize Spicy Pepper even in her disguise," Midnight said firmly, "Why and how is she here?"

Robbing my eyes again, I suppressed a yawn, "She's here to talk to me," I told her.

"You're up to something."

"What?"

"You're being evasive," Midnight said and poked my chest with her hoof, "And I don't believe for a moment Twilight would put up with it and you're sleeping with her so, so why do you think I will? Spill."

I glowered sleepily at her, "Any reason we couldn't do this at a reasonable hour?"

Midnight glowered at me, "Be glad I didn't teleport us outside. Now stop evading, I'm not playing."

"...I went to her dream and told her she should seek out your castle," I said with only a slight grumbling, "I needed to talk to her because when we leave and when the great bat decursing start, the thestrals will need a strong central figure they trust that can help lead them."

Midnight paused slightly with a small frown, "...And you think that pony is Spicy Pepper?"

"You met her," I said and shrugged my wings, "She has a strong will and a strong personality with charisma. She cares about ponies and is a natural leader. If she can be convinced to assist Princess Luna in this, it will greatly increase the chance that things go smoothly."

"Why didn't you just say that?"

"Because somepony woke me in the middle of the day to yell at me."

Midnight rubbed her forehead next to her horn, "No, I mean why not send a letter like a normal pony?"

I blinked at her.

She stared at me, "...Letters didn't occur to you?"

"I have a lot on my mind, alright," I protested and shifted my ears in annoyance.

Midnight shook her head before she looked to me again, "And Celestia?"

I shrugged, "Nothing," I said before I smiled slightly, "I just told her of Tempest."

"Oh."

"See, nothing nefarious."

Midnight shook her head again and then frowned, "So why are you being so sneaky about it?"

"Because if I wasn't," I said and suppressed another yawn, "Celestia could have suspected that I was trying to convince her to let you leave instead of it being her idea. So I just told her what she wanted to know, when she wanted to know it."

Midnight raised an eyebrow, "And you think she didn't catch on?"

I smiled, "Oh, I'm sure she did, she's too smart and experienced not to be at least suspicious. But she's the one that asked the question and I told her nothing but the truth so she can't be certain enough about it to not take me at my word. Besides, guess who taught me how to do that?"

"Celestia," Midnight said and groaned softly as she looked at me, "I guess you took to those lessons more than I did," she admitted and rubbed her forehead again before she crossed over and hugged me, "...Thank you…"

I hugged back, "I still think it's a mistake," I said quietly, "But I said I would support you and I will."
 
She stared at me, "...Letters didn't occur to you?"

"I have a lot on my mind, alright," I protested and shifted my ears in annoyance.
To be fair, something of this magnitude should be discussed in person.

Midnight glowered at me, "Be glad I didn't teleport us outside. Now stop evading, I'm not playing."
"So try to be evasive just one more time. Let's see what happens."
...I can't help it. I look away and say, "Well-"
"Teleport!"
"Gahh! My EYES! WHY did YOU drop us in APPLELOOSA in the MIDDLE OF THE DAY?!"
 
Well to be fair, would she have come if it was sent by letter? This is literally back to square one for the Bats and we saw how well that all worked in the beginning.
He is not somepony that lives in Canterlot. He is literally a "prince" that lives in the castle with Luna, Celestia, etc. Sure, it's not his dimension, but displaced or not it doesn't change the fact that he is a prince living in the castle. If he sends a letter it's the royal pegasus the ones that deliver it, not your run of the mill delivery pony. You can bet your ass that she would have come.
 
Disappointed but not surprised at romantic love being the most important

To be charitable to Hiver, it's entirely possible that Celestia had simply failed to really internalize that Midnight had a life on the other side and that she had integrated in virtually every possible way. In which case, Page talking to her about Tempest wound up being the catalyst to let Celestia realize that yes, her student has moved on and built a new life for herself, and that it would be cruel to make her do so again, and had very little to do with romantic love being the "most important" kind.

But yeah, as an aromantic myself, I totally see why you're disappointed. It's an annoyingly common trope.
 
To be charitable to Hiver, it's entirely possible that Celestia had simply failed to really internalize that Midnight had a life on the other side and that she had integrated in virtually every possible way. In which case, Page talking to her about Tempest wound up being the catalyst to let Celestia realize that yes, her student has moved on and built a new life for herself, and that it would be cruel to make her do so again, and had very little to do with romantic love being the "most important" kind.

But yeah, as an aromantic myself, I totally see why you're disappointed. It's an annoyingly common trope.
It is. As common as it is it's easy to forgive. I think part of me expected more from a princess of friendship, even if it was a little silly. And there is wriggle room like you said to pretend it was more about the rebuilt life
 
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I walked into the throneroom and Spicy Pepper turned around at the sound of my hooves.

She was in her guise of a pegasus and I had the usual double vision as I looked at her. For a moment, her eyes flicked to my wings, then to my eyes, then to my ears and finally landing on my horn.

Her jaw dropped for a second, then so did the rest of her as she bowed down so deeply she was basically laying down.

Oh damn it.

"My name is Blank Page," I told her, "You don't need to do that."

Spicy Pepper looked up at me and I saw hope in her eyes as her illusion faded away.

"I'm not here to save you."

The hope died.

Spicy Pepper slowly got up to sit, but somehow she just looked more collapsed than when she was on the floor, ears drooping and wings hanging down her back.

"I.." she said quietly, "I dreamed that a voice told me to come to..."

"That was me," I confirmed with a smile as I moved to sit before her, "But I'm not here to save you. You are."

Spicy Pepper looked at me, "W-what do you mean?"

"I mean that I can't do it for you," I said and held my hoof out for her, "But I can show you how."

Spicy Pepper slowly reached out and took my hoof, "Who are you?"

I smiled at her, "I am Prince Blank Page of Equestria. Just not this Equestria. If you are willing to listen, I have a story to tell you."

She nodded.

So I told her. I told her about the history of the thestrals, about the blood magic and the curse bound to it. About gathering every thestral that wanted to come, about founding Nocturnis. About the decursing.

Spicy Pepper didn't say a word, just just listened.

"Y-you're not from this world?" she asked as she stood up.

"I'm not. And I have to go back, but I can't leave without trying to do something to help," I said and stood up as well, stretching my wings for a moment, "And for that I need somepony here than can do the job instead."

Pepper gaped at me again for a second before she asked the very understandable question, "Why me?"

I smiled, "Because I know the you from my world. You're smart and a natural leader."

"I run my family's noodle stand! I'm not a hero or a princess or anything important!"

"And very good noodles they are," I agreed with a grin before I turned more serious, "But because that's who you are doesn't mean that who you always have to be. You wouldn't be alone, I know Princess Luna will assist you all the way, you wouldn't even need to do most of the heavy lifting. But thestrals need somepony of their own to show it's safe, to show it's true. To have somepony to look up to. Somepony to help lead them. And you are just plain wrong, everypony is important."

"But why me!?" she exclaimed, taking half a step back.

"Because I know you can do it," I said before I sighed, "But I would never force you into that position. If you say no, I will find somepony else."

"I... I..." she said and shook her head, "It's just so much."

I nodded, "I know," I answered softly, "And I do wish we had a lot of time. But I return to where I came from in a few weeks if all goes as planned."

Pepper flicked her ears, swallowing as she looked around.

"You don't have to decide now," I told her, "In fact, I encourage you to think about it. But in the meantime, I have somepony I want to introduce you to if you are willing to go for a walk with me."

Pepper shivered, her illusion flowing to cover her again before she looked at me, "Who?"

"A bat that lives in Ponyville. I talked to her earlier and she's willing to talk to you. I'd warn you though, she is a bit shy," I said before I ignited my horn, wrapping the illusion of how I looked as a unicorn around myself, "You don't know a lot of bats?"

Shaking her head, Pepper looked at me, "Three, including my mother."

"Before she met me, the only thestral she knew was her mother," I said sadly, "That's part of what I want to change. Would you like to meet her?"

Pepper nodded.
 
On one hand, thestrals need help. On the other hand, this isn't Page's world and he doesn't have authority here. Is it right for him to do this? If he didn't, would there be anyone else capable of stepping up?
 
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