Life Ore Death - DC Feruchemy [Young Justice]

Well actually Artemis isn't technically a new character for the show.

Tigress, aka Artemis Crock, daughter of Lawrence and Paula Crock, has been a character since the eighties.

Not a superhero, not eurasian, or related to Cheshire, so YJ Artemis is a very different take on the character.

Comics Tigress is Icicle Jr's baby momma, actually. That's probably hard to envision from the cartoon version of those characters though.

Or maybe not, since some people seem to delight in hooking up every possible combination of random characters.
 
That said, I have rough written outlines up to 2013, major event outlines up to 2018 or so, and a general idea for a few major arcs leading up to the end. And yes, I do have a definitive end to the story in my head. In terms of sheer volume, I'd say we're about 10% into the total story, but my total may expand as I write further ahead, so we'll have to see. I'm in it for the long haul, though.
You lunatic. I like where you're going.
 
In terms of sheer volume, I'd say we're about 10% into the total story, but my total may expand as I write further ahead,
Jeez, that's going to make for a long story. And though I'm excited that life ore death is going to be around for a long time to come, I'll just urge you to try and be cautious with length. Oftentimes really long fics run the risk of getting bogged down in the minutiae, getting repetitive, etc. After all, your estimate would put this fic at a final length of ~6 million words. For reference, the entirety of the current Cosmere clocks in at about 4 million.
 
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Hallowed Saints and Souls - part 8
Life Ore Death
* November 2 [Renka PoV]

In the past ten hours, I had been busy: I spoke to the Zatara about the details of the fight against Harm, the Sword of Beowulf, ghosts, and the significance of Halloween; I had spoken to Police Commissioner Chesterton, and he assigned me a police assistant after having a phone call with another person, one whom I assumed had been aware of my involvement with the Injustice League and General Eisling; I had spoken to the people at the museum, although the curator Matthew Culberds had been murdered by Harm; I had investigated the records at the murder scene and the notes on recreating the events of the night; I had spoken with Officer Tyler Johnson, Officer Blaine Marshal, Officer Elizabeth Lark, and Detective Jim Daniels, the survivors of Harm's attack on first the group in the museum, and then on the further police cars arriving when he left; I had tracked Harm's path before and after he encountered Zatanna and Artemis; I had met with the Zatara, discussed more of the magic concepts involved, and stood as Artemis and Zatanna gave their 'depositions' when they arrived after school had ended; I had spoken with Harm; I had acted unwisely in response to a joke of Zatanna's; and I had planned an act with the Zatara.

He was less than entirely helpful for the last part, due to my misstep in the second-to-last part, but Zatanna had received my gratitude for excusing my lapse in control and asking her father to aid me all the same.

So it was that I arrived at the home of William Hayes, cordoned off by police tape, with Zatanna, Artemis, M'gann, and the Zatara. The rest of the Team were discretely waiting for us, following Robin's instructions to not pollute the scene of the crime, but also holding the police from interfering with the grave of Greta Hayes until after our business was concluded.

Abel's House of Secrets was closed, but I had already resolved to return at a later date.

"Whoa, Zee! What happened to you?" Wally asked, and he was not the only one shocked when he saw her.

"She joked I should kiss Harm, and I punched her," I answered simply.

"When Renka was talking to Harm alone in the interview room, we were watching through the window, and bouncing ideas around via telepathy," Zatanna elaborated quickly. It was an odd exchange that now we were both more critical of our own actions than each other's. "They said some odd stuff, and at a sticky spot in the talk I had the horrible idea to joke that she kiss him to make him talk. I didn't make the 'prostituting herself for information' connection until after Renka walked out of the room and spelled it out for me. Then she decked me. I'm fine, so no freaking out."

"I have apologized for expressing myself through unexpected violence on an ally," I added mechanically, because we'd mostly talked out the disagreement between us already. Zee shrugged agreeably at my comment and continued.

"I said sorry for my tasteless comment, and since she'd just been tapping connection all during her talk with Harm and that stuff can work in both directions, we declared that the end of it," Zatanna finished. "We have the aster again, so, moving on, let's try this out."

I took from Robin the materials I had requested: a large loop of coiled metal wire, flat stones, tallow candles, chalk, and a knife.

Zatanna and the Zatara would watch me, but I would make the first attempt on my own. I was excited as well.

If all went well enough, I planned that I would be performing my first piece of Earth's spell-craft before the day was done.

I yawned as I knelt down to begin, and grimaced, pausing for a moment. 'Okay, emptying out my bronze-mind and using the time awake to store the rest, especially connection, was useful so that I now have enough to pull this out even after talking with Harm, but I am a little fumbly now, too. I'll need to- oh?' Wally had disappeared for a moment and returned to hand me something sugary and caffeinated.

I took it with a shared smile. I drank half of the drink down, (storing warmth to not scald my mouth,) licked the ridiculously, disgustingly delicious whipped-cream-and-sprinkles mustache off of my upper lip, and counted to 30 to let the caffeine start circulating.

I then returned to work.

Step 1: I laid out the coil of metal wire in a loop with a 1.6-meter radius, such that the grave was in one half and I in the other.

Step 2: I placed the 7 flat stones at the compass points of the circle, excluding the point that would be behind Greta's grave.

Step 3: I lit one candle, and as it burned and the wax melted, I dripped hot wax onto the stones and affixed the other candles there.

Step 4: I drew in chalk the symbols suggested by the Zatara on the stones, around the candles.

Step 5: Moving counter-clockwise from the empty place behind Greta's grave, I lit each candle, and then I dropped to my knees.

Step 6: Moving awkwardly, because I was still holding the candle with my right hand, I cut my left palm and let the blood pool.

Step 7: Finally ready, as the sun sank halfway below the horizon, nearing the end of All Souls' Day, I deeply tapped connection.

Step 8: I began to speak.

"This day and night," I said simply, "we celebrate all souls, and so I speak to the soul and spirit of Greta Hayes, who lies here."
I leaned forward and over turned my cupped left hand, allowing my blood to dribble onto the dirt in front of the grave.

"Greta, I am Renka, a friend and comrade of Artemis and Zatanna, the two with whom you exchanged aid. William Hayes is in prison, and will stand trial for your murder. I have spoken with him. Greta, I am a younger sister who slew her elder brother, and I know sorrow and regret because I have done so. Greta Hayes, I am Renka, and I am Ferris, and I am the Sliver of Entropy. Will you speak with me?"

I stayed in my position, patiently waiting, and the sun sank lower and the shadows grew deeper. I did not know if they noticed it, but at least none of the Team spoke to disturb my vigil, which I kept because I had noticed.

The rest of the world moved on indifferently, and they continued to give light, but the candles in the circle and the lone one in my hand no longer burned. The wax did not melt, and the flame did not flicker or twist, as though it was replaced by a stopped photo of flame.

With no further fanfare, the shadow of Greta Hayes rose up from the earth of her grave. I met her with a smile and a shallow nod.

I did not blink, nor speak, but I waited. She was perfectly still as no human could be, standing like a statue.

"What will happen to him?" she asked simply, shifting to speak and being still again at the end.

"New York no longer practices the death penalty," I answered. "If he is not found insane, unable to be responsible for his actions-,"

"He knew what he was doing," she said sharply, only to hesitate after. "You can… understand me?"

"I can understand an alien robot who speaks in beeping sounds," I pointed out. Her appearance had reverted again in between.

"Oh." Greta's cognitive shadow lacked much of the casual body language of the living; I had expected her to fidget, but she did not.

"My friend Zatanna promised you would receive a proper burial, and to not forget you. Do you have any preferences?"

"Beside Mom and Dad," she said, "and could you leave a space for Billy?"

"I do not know where your parents are buried, but if I can find them, yes to both," I agreed.

"Burt and Ellen Hayes. I don't remember the name of the cemetery… I never knew the name of the cemetery," Greta corrected.

"Mm. If you do not mind, what is it like, to be a ghost?" I asked.

"It… foggy." I was struck by the description of Scadrial's Cognitive Realm. "Important things are clear to me, everything else is not."

"Pain, relief, sorrow, contentment, apathy?" I wondered.

"Life hurts, and when I died a lot of that went away. I don't get sore, or hungry, or especially bored. Or really happy, either."

"It is less of everything, the good and the bad," I assessed. "Did you choose to become a ghost?"

"Sort of. Being de- not alive isn't just a yes or a no switch. Most people take the steps all in a row, but I refused to; I stayed behind."

"Do you know any other ghosts?"

"None I've really talked with. We don't have any reason to, without boredom or curiosity. There are more than many people think, but it isn't always in the same way. Most can't show up on our own."

I wanted to ask more about that, but something else less direct and more likely to appeal occurred to me.

"I do not know how long this will last-,"

"It's isn't really a matter of time. It will last until… no, it doesn't translate well." I wished she'd tried, but I did not want to press.

"I accept that. While it does last, do you want to ask any of the ghosts you can see if they have any unfinished business?"

"I'm pretty sure that would count as me ending it on purpose, and since you wanted to talk to me, I don't think I could bring anyone over, and I don't think you could do a new ritual before we ran out of time for the veil to be thinner like it is."

"A well of information. Did you learn this after you became a ghost?" I inquired.

"No. Well, some of it. I just know some bits, the same way when I was alive I knew I would fall down if I jumped up. Some of the rest I remember from before, when I was alive. Billy and I both knew some magic from our parents, and from living across from the store."

"It is a real magic store? Zatanna was there before, and-," I stopped, because Greta was shaking her head.

"It isn't always a real magic store, but it looks enough like one on its own that it sometimes overlaps with the reflection of a place where there's a lot more real magic," she corrected. "Magic means you aren't only one thing. Well, you never are, but magic is more obvious."

"Mm. That may be the most useful thing I have heard about Earth magic since I arrived here. Thank you. Is there anything else you wish me to do for you? Friends at school I should inform of you? More business to finish?"

"There's always more to do. That's the thing about living." She considered it, still as a statue. "There are stuffed animals in my room; they can go to my classmates. Brianna has a younger sister who can get the bear. Angie can have the big cat pillow. The two horses were gifts from Dad and Billy, and they should be small enough to fit in my coffin, so could you leave them with me? I'm not sure if Mrs. Horner had the baby yet, but the-," Greta twitched, and glanced over her shoulder. "Huh? Oh, she did! Give her the gray puppy for her daughter, please."

I wanted to ask how Greta knew that, but I could guess the answer on my own. I had eyes as well, and could see what I did not hear.

"Bear for Brianna's sister, Angie gets the big cat, bury the horses, puppy to your teacher Missus Horner's new baby," I repeated.

"Thanks. I'm… I think I'll stick around for a while, but I won't really be doing anything until… well, I'm not quite ready to die yet."

"Few people are," I mused. "Mm, rude question?" Greta nodded once. "Have you not died?"

"Not really, I'm just not alive anymore. It's a bit tricky to explain, but if most people take an elevator to the top floor of a building, I got off before the top, and I'm waiting on one of the middle floors. I can't really go back down, but I'm not all the way there yet, either."

"If you could come back to life-?"

"What would I come back to?" I nodded silently. Greta looked over her shoulder. "I'm not ready to move on still, though. Sorry."

"If you do not want to end this, I am studying Earth's magic. You say you know a little. Do you have any advice?" I inquired.

"If you make a deal, try to pay your part first. Magic is like gravity, so the more it gathers, the stronger it pulls in more. Being many things at once doesn't make you any less of any one of them." She stopped. "Thank you for not judging me, for still loving Billy."

"I can only hope my elder brother feels the same," I replied offering a bleak smile.

"You can probably ask her," Greta observed, turning around. For the first time, we both looked at the woman standing there.

"Hello, I am sorry for ignoring you, but you seemed content to watch. Are you a death goddess, like Hela, Izanami, or Hades?"

"I think he counts as a god, not a goddess," she laughed. "No, no I'm not." I frowned as she stepped into more proper visibility.

"Have we met, maybe when you were in a disguise? Or do you feel familiar to everyone with your magic?" 'I know her? Except not….'

"I've met everyone in this world at least once," she demurred, "but you aren't exactly from this world, are you?"

"She isn't?" Greta asked, and turned. She peered at me. "Oh, you aren't! That's new." She turned back. "Am I inconveniencing you?"

"Don't worry about it, sweetheart. I can come again when I have spare time, and get some more if I run out," the woman offered.

"You appear to be much nicer than my native god of death. I am pleased to meet you," I said, closing my eyes and bowing my head.

"Well, I'm not exactly a god or goddess, you know? I'm just a girl who meets a lot of people. I could have introduced myself to you earlier – you've been involved in some things that got people talking, and we were in the same place a few times – but I didn't."

"It is your life and identity to introduce," I accepted. "I am Renka last-name-undecided, or Ferris, or-,"

"The Sliver of Entropy," she finished.

I was not exactly certain what happened when I heard that. I felt as though something occurred that was like the 'Dream' word of Mr Wesley Dodds, only utterly, exponentially, uncountably over. I heard voices that were my own, screaming in fury and horror and glee and agony, echoing in my head, although my mouth did not move. I saw myself from the outside, looking in on myself, as burning duralumin and gold, except I never had done so, and yet I knew I had, and I knew all that I had not, and I knew-

"Whoops! Sorry about that," Death of the Endless interrupted, a tad flustered, which seemed ridiculous now that I knew what-, knew who she was, and what she did. But the moment had ended, and I could not remember it, I could only remember how I had once remembered it.

"I forgive you, and I apologize if I upset you," I said absently, still recollecting my own not-exactly-scattered existence.

"I should've been more careful; I didn't expect that to happen at all," Death apologized. "Um, look, I've been stringing this out a bit longer than you could on your own, but I should get running again. Greta, if you change your mind, you know how to find me; I can't promise it'll be immediately, but I'll be by again later like before. Renka, nice meeting you, I'll see you… when I see you. Oh, and can you say, 'Secret'?"

"Yes," I answered, and when she rolled her eyes I added, "Sec-,"

The world shifted, and I became aware of heat burning my hand, whereupon I immediately stored into my brass-mind again.

I had not even noticed that my legs were not sore from kneeling, and my cut hand had not stung, until those pains began again.

"-ret. Huh," I observed sagely, blinking away a bit of heaviness around my eyes. "The sun is still up?"

I was under the impression that it had already set; we had certainly spent long enough talking, only I was not sure I had noticed….

"Did it work?" Zatanna asked quickly.

"Something certainly occurred. Ferris appears unharmed," the Zatara observed, "and I expect the communication has ended."

"Wait, so were you actually talking to Greta Hayes?" Wally asked. I nodded slowly, mentally reviewing all of it.

"Yes. I assume the conversation was 'all in my head,' and you did not see?"

"There was… not something, but," Artemis struggled to explain, "it was like someone totally invisible was there. I was totally certain Greta was there, but I had no reason to be, I just knew. It was weird. I mean, weirder than usual," she added, rubbing her own arms.

I rose to my feet. "Yes, I had a conversation with Greta about her grave, being a ghost, and the rest of her business."

"It sounded like you were just saying, 'secret'," Robin told me. "You said it once and then you just didn't say anything for a bit."

"You still moved around, though. Not like moving, but your eyes and weight shifted like you were watching someone," Wally said.

"You said secret three times total, and we were just getting worried when you were still in a trance," M'gann said, "because Zatanna says three is a magic number, and then you said it for a fourth time, only your voice hitched in the middle, and then you said 'huh'."

"You are unharmed?" the Zatara asked, stepping forward as I rose to my feet. I was not certain what an honest answer would be.

"…I am not certain," I decided, when I realized I had left the question for too long. "I think I met… I did not only speak with Greta Hayes, I spoke with someone else, and I believe she hurt me, badly, but because it was an accident, I think, she then healed me. Or I only thought I was hurt, but no hurt happened to me. How long was I out here?" I checked the candle, and it had not burned far. "Not long."

"Not even a minute," Robin confirmed.

"In the speaking it was longer," I confirmed, a wondrous smile etching into my mouth. "That was magic. It is a wonder," I declared.

"It is a danger," the Zatara warned me.

"Yes, but living is a danger." I almost quoted Ruin's statement of Intent at him, despite knowing it could be a bad idea from Death's words to me, especially if even she could make a mistake, and the first syllable was on my lips despite myself when I tapped electrum in time.

"You okay?" Zatanna asked again. "You just twitched and swayed," she added, when my look requested an explanation for that question.

"I am fine, and I will become well," I decided, speaking carefully. "Perhaps, though… a little help? Take the candle, please?" I requested.

I did not care the hot wax had melted and scalded my skin – it was not even worth healing – but my inability to let go of it was concerning.

I ended up unsteady on my feet, and Conner supported me into the house of Harm ("Billy" was the Captain Marvel,) and Greta.

Zatanna's spell slipped the candle slickly from my grip, and I caught my breath on the couch, while the world failed to spin as it should.

Rather, because I was off-balance, I felt as though the world should be spinning as occurred when people were ill, dizzy, or under a concussion, but it refused to do so. The sensation was like a horrible hyperawareness, only it defied the pain of a Tineye's sensory overload.

Father and other Feruchemists had revealed that tapping large draws of distance vision from a tin-mind could induce nausea, and while I had never suffered that consequence – due to rarely tapping distance vision – I supposed I now had an idea of what it was like.

We made way for the authorities to exhume Greta's remains from the makeshift grave, and I relayed her requests for proper burial, and for the distribution of her stuffed animals, which the others retrieved.

Eventually, I returned to a baseline state, although I wanted to consult with the Dr. Fate abou-
{Keep Fate out of this!}
-consult with the Zatara about Abel's House of Secrets.

I asked when I felt steady enough again, but the Zatara said he had been there, and discovered nothing immediately apparent, save that the shop was closed and the owner could not be contacted. Not even by his use of magic.

In the house, I groaned as a migraine throbbed in my temples, and behind my eyes, and tried playing with my temperature to fix it. No use.

The Zatara had left a letter with his own contact information, and we would have to be satisfied by that for the time being.

I resolved to return on my own and seek out further discoveries of this, but at a later date.
 
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Well THAT's certainly interesting.

It is, as Secret was like, a powered super(hero, and then briefly villain under the influence of Darkseid) ghost and member of Young Justice. She was actually eventually resurrected by Darkseid after she threw off his influence, as a way of stripping her of her powers. Since she would rather be an ordinary living girl rather then a superhero ghost, that actually was a good outcome for her.
 
It is, as Secret was like, a powered super(hero, and then briefly villain under the influence of Darkseid) ghost and member of Young Justice. She was actually eventually resurrected by Darkseid after she threw off his influence, as a way of stripping her of her powers. Since she would rather be an ordinary living girl rather then a superhero ghost, that actually was a good outcome for her.

Yes, I always liked Secret, but I guess the YJ writers felt that YJ had Megan to fulfill the "adorafrightening shapeshifter" needs.
 
And I love Miss Martian. Still, with how Renka is looking into the supernatural, I wouldn't be surprised if this is setup for recruiting Secret.
I can't quite decide whether her having ghost buddies is on theme with Ruin or very against it. On the one hand, from Greta's description ghosts are numbed from the negative extremes of life. On the other, they don't quite have the restful peace of non-being that Ruin seems to want to give people.
 
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It is, as Secret was like, a powered super(hero, and then briefly villain under the influence of Darkseid) ghost and member of Young Justice. She was actually eventually resurrected by Darkseid after she threw off his influence, as a way of stripping her of her powers. Since she would rather be an ordinary living girl rather then a superhero ghost, that actually was a good outcome for her.

i only ever saw season one of YJ, so that is news to me.
 
I think he means the original comic run of Young Justice where their first adventure was rescuing Secret from Cadmus. IIRC the lineup was Robin, Impulse, Superboy, Wondergirl. An Artemis joined later.

Department of Extranormal Operations, not Cadmus. I haven't read the comic, but I think they aren't actually connected outside of being narrative siblings.
 
Department of Extranormal Operations, not Cadmus. I haven't read the comic, but I think they aren't actually connected outside of being narrative siblings.

DEO isn't really known for making supers, although according to Manchester Black "they take the galaxies cast offs and weaponize them for the highest bidder," and so might have created Menagerie.

DEO is more of a "spy on people and make them disappear" kind of organization, so more super-CIA as opposed to Cadmus's super-DARPA.

Although now I'm picturing Cadmus cloning ghosts, because, hell, why not? Cadmus cloned a fire elemental (Firestorm) and a god (Zeus) in Justice League 3000/1.

Well okay, not cloned, took someone and overwrote their DNA and personality to make them a duplicate of the person desired, effectively killing the host.

Cloning would have taken too long, so they killed people because it was faster.
 
Liking the exploration of magic and the mystical. Sad to see Klarion's still playing an active role in Renka's life but all things (even geas) eventually fall to Ruin.
 
Cloning would have taken too long, so they killed people because it was faster.
...Imagine the all of interesting things that could be done in a setting where these agencies weren't just clearly evil and actually were in a moral grey area rather than just acting like it. An author could make different heroes have differing reactions to them as a way to explore their unique moralities or actually use them to comment on real world issues. That would be neat.
 
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...Imagine the interesting things you could do in a setting where these agencies weren't just clearly evil and actually were in a moral grey area so that different heroes could have differing reactions to them without looking like idiots and authors could actually use them to comment on real world issues. That would be neat.

They tried that with Marvel's Civil War.

Enough authors hated the side that was supposed to be the lighter shade of grey that they basically hijacked the plot and turned it into the Iron Man and Mister Fantastic are evil Fascists show.

It's always easier to destroy ambiguity then it is to create it, and someone will always be temped to do exactly that to make things simpler or to control future storylines. Like, if you're uncomfortable with the idea of cloning, making the people who do cloning SUPER EVIL guarantees they won't be used as the heroes in a future storyline.
 
Could someone confirm for me how magic works in the DC universe? I'm trying to figure out how significant it is that Renka was able to work this spell. Here's how I'm interpreting things--please correct me if I'm wrong:
Individuals have different affinities, but magic is available to basically anyone. If they'd wanted to, Wally or Artemis could have tried the ritual and had a chance of it working. Whether Greta deigned to respond would depend on a combination of the caster's spiritual nature and the way they presented themselves, but the option would have been there. Renka's polite approach and her extra Ruinous essence give her an edge, but it's not terribly surprising that she's able to do these things. Yay, nay?

Oh, wow. Thank you. [...]at a time when I'm juggling two jobs and helping people move house you just made my week. Thank you
That sounds intense! I hope you catch up on sleep at some point. I am struggling with my own IRL responsibilities right now, and I am super impressed that you can do all that and still maintain a consistent update schedule here.
And yes, I do have a definitive end to the story in my head. In terms of sheer volume, I'd say we're about 10% into the total story, but my total may expand as I write further ahead, so we'll have to see. I'm in it for the long haul, though.
Wow, that is a lot of story. Given that the first chapter was posted 18 months ago, that is really ambitious to propose another 15 years of updates!

On your recommendation I did look up a few other episodes of YJ, and I freely concede that the clips I started with were the worst representative samples. There were some genuinely good moments, though I still don't think I'll pursue the show except perhaps to see how specific events compare to how you've handled them. My main complaint is that (as far as I saw) all of the villains have terrible "I am eeeeviillll!" lines almost every time they speak.

Regarding the events in China, I've been trying to figure out why Renka didn't recognize Jade. I was pretty sure she'd seen under the mask when they interrogated Cheshire way back when. It definitely states that her mask was knocked half-way off when she was captured, and the interrogation scene kept having them make eye contact with no mention of the mask, so I assumed it had been removed. Maybe I'm just imagining the scene wrong?

Um, I feel a little bad about bringing up a criticism, but I feel I ought to mention that there is a quirk of your writing style that consistently throws me for a loop. Frequently you will have a character respond somehow to the one speaking, but without using a paragraph break. This makes it look like a dialogue tag, and it sometimes takes me a minute to figure out who is actually saying each line. In grabbing examples, I noticed that there weren't nearly as many instances of this in the most recent updates, so perhaps it is something you are already changing. There's no need to change this if you don't want to, but I think it is worth recognizing that it is counter to convention.
Examples. In each of these cases, I would move the bolded text to beginning of the following paragraph:
"Alright. I'll stop him," [Captain Marvel] said somberly, as Grundy finished turning around and found them again. Mummy-costume-girl hummed.

"If there is a cure-," She punctuated the comment with a not-quite-kick to the crawling Georgia's ribs. "-to the goop I could return to my age and help more, too. I want to, later, learn how it stopped my age."

"Hey, you can call him Dad, we understand," Wally said gently. Zatanna slipped around to give Artemis a hug from the front.

"As the girl with the heroic dad, I know my dad has been a big influence on me in a lot of ways despite his League work, and in ways that have nothing to do with League work. Cheshire ran away, right? So, however bad he was, he was also there for I don't know how long, and he was the only one there. Thinking you should get over that – get over those years of him being the most important person in your life – like nothing happened, that would be a denial of what makes you a good person, Artemis, no matter what kind of person he is," she stated.
 
...Imagine the all of interesting things that could be done in a setting where these agencies weren't just clearly evil and actually were in a moral grey area rather than just acting like it. An author could make different heroes have differing reactions to them as a way to explore their unique moralities or actually use them to comment on real world issues. That would be neat.

Actually Cadmus was presented as morally grey in JL3000/1.

The Magnus twins, Terry and Teri (descendants of Doc Magnus perhaps?), got volunteers to recreate the Justice League to fight the Five, and sent the Justice League to find the brilliant geneticist who they thought had a method of fast cloning so they wouldn't have to kill people. Unfortunately, she didn't have such a method.

And not the standard fatal five, no, this five includes a reality warper, a psychic virus that can body jack entire planets at a time, a death goddess, and an AI that plays big brother to the entire universe, the Five conquered entire galaxies.

The series liked playing things as grey. Ice flash froze entire armies for trespassing, Fire was Etrigan's moll for a thousand years, and Starro legally enslaved a planet.
 
Wow, that is a lot of story. Given that the first chapter was posted 18 months ago, that is really ambitious to propose another 15 years of updates!

Jeez, that's going to make for a long story. And though I'm excited that life ore death is going to be around for a long time to come, I'll just urge you to try and be cautious with length. Oftentimes really long fics run the risk of getting bogged down in the minutiae, getting repetitive, etc. After all, your estimate would put this fic at a final length of ~6 million words. For reference, the entirety of the current Cosmere clocks in at about 4 million.
It'll happen as it happens. As long as I'm able to do so, I intend to tell the story for as long as there's a story to tell. But as I said, I do have a definitive timeline end-point, and there's a limit to how much I would want to shove in there along the way. and who knows, it might get shorter as I go.

It is, as Secret was like, a powered super(hero, and then briefly villain under the influence of Darkseid) ghost and member of Young Justice. She was actually eventually resurrected by Darkseid after she threw off his influence, as a way of stripping her of her powers. Since she would rather be an ordinary living girl rather then a superhero ghost, that actually was a good outcome for her.
Darkseid's habit of occasionally punishing people by condemning them to living life under the awful yoke of free will is a very interesting facet of his character to me, and one I feel too many interpretations ignore in the attempt of making him so totally horrible. Early comics actually characterize him as a bit hammy, and the occasional spurt of melancholy or humor.

I can't quite decide whether her having ghost buddies is on theme with Ruin or very against it. On the one hand, from Greta's description ghosts are numbed from the negative extremes of life. On the other, they don't quite have the restful peace of non-being that Ruin seems to want to give people.
Eh, Ruin doesn't necessarily care about the restful peace of non-being so much as it's a rationalization. Ruin as a Shard wanted universal energy-mass entropy, but the Shard twisted the mind of Ati to rationalizing the destruction of everything else along the way. Sort of.

So whether Greta is a ghost isn't so much the matter of Ruin, as whether she's involved with turning other people into ghosts. Greta saved Artemis, Zatanna, and countless others from Harm's plan, so overall, probably not. But Ferris with her Ruin influence can definitely appreciate the artful Ruin of Harm's evil insanity.

...Imagine the all of interesting things that could be done in a setting where these agencies weren't just clearly evil and actually were in a moral grey area rather than just acting like it. An author could make different heroes have differing reactions to them as a way to explore their unique moralities or actually use them to comment on real world issues. That would be neat.
Yeah... I'm not really sure I'll be able to get much into agencies in LOD, but exploring that would be a great thing for a story. The main reason we get evil government agencies is because if they weren't evil & working for the government, then the super heroes could get government help instead and it would all wrap up a lot easier. But many writers want it to be about the hero, so...

They tried that with Marvel's Civil War.

Enough authors hated the side that was supposed to be the lighter shade of grey that they basically hijacked the plot and turned it into the Iron Man and Mister Fantastic are evil Fascists show.

It's always easier to destroy ambiguity then it is to create it, and someone will always be temped to do exactly that to make things simpler or to control future storylines. Like, if you're uncomfortable with the idea of cloning, making the people who do cloning SUPER EVIL guarantees they won't be used as the heroes in a future storyline.
I think I read an article where the guy who started it mentioned the Accords were really just an excuse to have all the heroes on the same side punching each other in the face (at leass in his mind, though many of us disagree and it got written out beyond his control).

In regards to the comics, at least. The movie is a whole other kettle of fish and I still personally prefer this explanation. And hey, making people who are SUPER EVIL less so when they do gray-area things is part of the fun of fanfiction.

Regarding the events in China, I've been trying to figure out why Renka didn't recognize Jade. I was pretty sure she'd seen under the mask when they interrogated Cheshire way back when. It definitely states that her mask was knocked half-way off when she was captured, and the interrogation scene kept having them make eye contact with no mention of the mask, so I assumed it had been removed. Maybe I'm just imagining the scene wrong?
Um... Renka did recognize her? She knew who Cheshire was, and that Cheshire had escaped jail already. That was why she went for the kill almost immediately in the hall, because she had a grudge against Cheshire for being her first real encounter with the revolving-jail-door, as well as being part of trying to kill Dr. Roquette, whom Ferris feels guilty about failing to protect.

She didn't know that Cheshire/Jade was Artemis's sister until after Halloween, but she knew it was the same woman on those two missions. Where did you get any impression otherwise?

Um, I feel a little bad about bringing up a criticism, but I feel I ought to mention that there is a quirk of your writing style that consistently throws me for a loop. Frequently you will have a character respond somehow to the one speaking, but without using a paragraph break. This makes it look like a dialogue tag, and it sometimes takes me a minute to figure out who is actually saying each line
Criticism is totally welcome, as long as it's sincere (and preferably constructive). It's just how I write, and I try not to make as many new paragraphs as you appear to suggest.

I can't help but notice that in both your chosen examples, I do have a dialogue tag indicating who is speaking in between the dialogue and the mention of any other characters. Is it really that confusing?

I usually just start the new paragraph when there's a distinctly new idea, or someone new starts to say something. Mummy-costume-girl is humming as she mulls over what Captain Marvel said, and then she moves to a new thought and says it, which I have in the new paragraph. Zatanna is slipping around for the hug about the same time Wally is speaking, but she waits for him to finish, after she'd started the hug, before she voices an opinion of her own. That's the convention I learned for pacing.

The series liked playing things as grey. Ice flash froze entire armies for trespassing, Fire was Etrigan's moll for a thousand years, and Starro legally enslaved a planet.
So what did she do to the armchair generals in other countries that gave the orders to trespass, or didn't she care? Did she freeze any POWs the army might have brought with the rest of the army?
And slavery was legal for centuries all across the world, but that didn't and doesn't make it okay.

IMO, there's a difference between moral issues being 'grey' and comics just wanting to be 'edgy'. Maybe there were more extenuating circumstances due to other details, but from what you listed of those examples I wouldn't call them particularly ambiguous.
 
So what did she do to the armchair generals in other countries that gave the orders to trespass, or didn't she care? Did she freeze any POWs the army might have brought with the rest of the army?
And slavery was legal for centuries all across the world, but that didn't and doesn't make it okay.

IMO, there's a difference between moral issues being 'grey' and comics just wanting to be 'edgy'. Maybe there were more extenuating circumstances due to other details, but from what you listed of those examples I wouldn't call them particularly ambiguous.

Tora didn't bother to do anything, apparently she thought if she froze enough people they'd take the hint, whether they were Camelot-9's knights or Etrigan's demons.

The behavior stopped when Teri Magnus trespassed and Wonder Woman went after her. Blink, blink. "Tora, did you change your hair?" 'Diana?" And was the moment it was revealed that JL 3000 was a stealth sequel to "I can't believe it's not the Justice League."

And the Starro bit was weird. The Justice League illegally invaded because they thought it was wrong, got their asses kicked because an entire planet of starros, then Supergirl showed up and defeated the hive queen or however you'd phrase it, the head Starro.

Then it turns out the aliens were feral monsters who would have been extinct in an orgy of self-dismemberment if Starro hadn't stepped in, which is why the interplanetary community allowed it in the first place.

And the surviving Starro likened its situation to the Justice League's, since, after all, they're parasites that took over their hosts bodies and minds for their own survival.
 
Then it turns out the aliens were feral monsters who would have been extinct in an orgy of self-dismemberment if Starro hadn't stepped in, which is why the interplanetary community allowed it in the first place.
That sounds like the sort of thing the starros try to like. Tell the people invading. Also, it sounds like a state that would be impossible to reach naturally? I mean, how does such an absurd creature evolve? That's pretty clearly just there for the twist ending.
 
That sounds like the sort of thing the starros try to like. Tell the people invading. Also, it sounds like a state that would be impossible to reach naturally? I mean, how does such an absurd creature evolve? That's pretty clearly just there for the twist ending.

I agree it seems rather improbable.

Perhaps the planet had predators so fierce that they needed that ferocity to survive, then they killed all the predators, leaving only themselves as targets?

But I feel the same way about the Burning Martians- A race that procreates by mass murder through arson? Who the hell were they mass murdering to procreate? Animals? And having to mass murder things to procreate is a recipe for running out of things to kill to procreate.
 
I agree it seems rather improbable.

Perhaps the planet had predators so fierce that they needed that ferocity to survive, then they killed all the predators, leaving only themselves as targets?

But I feel the same way about the Burning Martians- A race that procreates by mass murder through arson? Who the hell were they mass murdering to procreate? Animals? And having to mass murder things to procreate is a recipe for running out of things to kill to procreate.

Isn't that what happened basically? Like, the Guardians don't normally go after problems confined to their own planet, so the Burning Martians basically had to have become a threat to other planets. Sounds like the killed everything killable at home and started to look abroad.
 
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