Industrialization Quest

You're introduced to a few people in the temple's front hall at that. Each of them has a similar story. Joerg, carpenter, lost a hand fighting and can't work his trade as well anymore. The Church of Shallya is feeding him as he learns to cut and corner and hammer one-handed. Denzel, soldier, who has no family and whose wounds cause him daily pain. He was driven to drink and on the streets until the Shallyans gave him a place to live and duties to perform. Geraldine... Has a child and no husband. She needed Shallya's support and comfort, and Shallya's church will give it to them because kindness is what they are for.

..this DOES make me feel better about the donations.

I mean, I was a bit annoyed, but I couldn't really get ANGRY at being forced to make a donation for what was, in the end, a good cause. They didn't ask more than we could afford after all.
Thank you. I know it must sting, to give to others when you have such ambitions. I think it is worth it.

...I'm reminded of the words of Mordin from Mass Effect:

Mordin: i made a mistake. focused on big picture. big picture made of little pictures; too many variables. can't hide behind statistics. can't ignore new data…. my responsibility.

Or, in other words: Harold's dream are for the long term, but that doesn't make the short term less important. A Utopia in 50 years doesn't help a starving child today.

You don't know how to answer the goddess. There's a tangle in your chest - a resentment at the asking of sacrifice, the demands for so much money or none at all, vague fear at the interference of the divine seeming to work against you. You recall something you once read saying that the gods don't really care, that their true desires are alien, that their churches are a translation of something unknowable into human terms and every interaction with a mortal is a bit of a lie...

That's true. I don't see things the way you do. But I experience love all the same. I love all. It pains me when anything suffers and dies.

ah, what a heretical admission. And from a goddess herself!

Well, at least it seems like we DO have at least one goddess on our side.

You are trying to change the world for the right reasons. You see that the way things are is not acceptable, so you don't accept it. I am not shaped that way; I do the best I can with what I have, for I do not understand what you will create. I don't know if it Despair and poverty are murderers of potential. Where would you be, if your father were a commoner and your mother dead? ...I don't expect you to blindly follow me, to unconditionally love me. But you can pray to me if you need guidance. And I am grateful.

You feel like you're shaking. It's... True that you would not be doing anything of worth if you were a peasant farmer, rather than a noble heir. You might have gotten your own farm and parceled it out to four fields, if you somehow still had the knowledge you do now, but trying to do anything else at all would have been impossible. Can you trust Shallya? Perhaps the gods who have expressed their displeasure with you simply weren't for you, and Shallya is a better fit...

If you are so doubtful, perhaps think of it like this: Your mysterious inventions may advance my cause greatly, if they come to fruition, so I ought to ensure they do. I wish to remind you of kindness, and show kindness in return.

Wait. Why talk to you directly, instead of sending a message some other way, through the priesthood, even?

You wouldn't have believed it!

all true and reasonable.

Did the power of gods have anything to do with the strenght of their churches/the number of faithful? Because We have all reasons to spread the Church of Shallia in that case, to strenghten each other.

It seems like Shallia understands and appreciates the value of our inventions. It's just that she also understands and cares for the lives of people currently suffering, so she wouldn't be willing to ignore the second ones for far-off results.

Honestly that's not actually that inhuman. Focusing on the long term and ignoring completely the problems of today would, in many ways, actually be MORE inhuman.

...truly, Shallya is actually a pretty human/humane goddess. More all-loving and benevolent that actually humanly possible, but still not that far from our understanding.

Gained Vial of Healing Water! This sort of thing is usually a scam, but Shallya herself gave it to you...
...we basically got an Elixir, a Panacea.

Assured healing for one person.

This is something we HAVE to keep secret until we decide we need it!

Maybe we could use it on our family, one day. Maybe the king or a powerful noble/merchant will fall ill and we could use this to gain his favour.

Or, maybe, this could save US one day.

[] Runa Kalenbal. The youngest daughter of the newly-raised Count of Kalenbal would tie you to a man who is absolutely rich with ransoms and booty at the moment, and who has an excellent reputation for glory and power. A potent ally, but possibly a distant one and certainly one you don't know anything about personally. Runa is apparently an architect, which is intriguing.

[] Nathalie Franzen. One of the Count of Franzen's granddaughters- A different one than the pious girl you didn't really get along with. You've already met the Count and know his (claimed) aims lie in improving the power of the nobility in general. He has a good reputation and a location deep in the center of Veschwar. You think the family would expect you to help with their political schemes, but that's a small price for a reliable ally. Nathalie plays the harp, apparently.

[] Piper Gerri. While Franz Gerri, the heir presumptive to the name, somehow infuriates you with his very presence, they are your immediate neighbors to the south and a marriage would secure an alliance. There are all sorts of ways close-by allied houses can help each other where distant ones cannot. Your wife could handle all the diplomacy with the family, hopefully. She is said to be quite attractive.



[] Anastriana Whitehall, second child of a Baroness. Byers' Notes: She simply adores the old Duke of Destruction's books, so she's actually already heard of you - lucky for you! Something to talk about! She likes fighting rather more than you do, but I don't think that's a problem. Perhaps the opposite really - A bit like your mother. But in a good way, not an awkward one.

[] Lucille Fairsol, the second-youngest child of a Viscount. Byers' Notes: This one would be good for you, I think. She's such a sweetheart, all her friends and servants adore her. I think she'd do a wonderful job of keeping you and yours working at their best. She follows Shallya as well, and with your recent inspiration to their cause that's a great foundation for better things!

[] Estrella Burke, a distant relation to Lord Governor Burke. Byers' Notes: I hope you can ignore the inconvenient relation. Rest assured, she is second cousin to the Lord Governor and not particularly aligned to him. But Este has a certain drive to her that reminds me of you and is always talking about economics things I don't understand but you'd probably love.

[] Nivri Stronrinaid, a Knight in her own right, second of her line, childless and unmarried. Byers' Notes: She has a mind as sharp as yours for mathematics and the like, I'd wager - too bad she keeps running into the most terrible prejudice, being foreign. Yes, yes, she's a bit older and not the most friendly sort, but I think she'd be fascinated by your weird windmill, so that's a starting point.
mh.. all good prospects.

I'd avoid number 3 (no reason to tie ourselves to someone we can't stand (the Gerri heir)), but other than that I'm basically interested in all the other 6.

Beekeeping [0/6]
The old ideas for specialized hives to attract bees has returned, as well as methods to extract the honey without hurting the bees too much or letting them sting. They would be relatively simple to perfect and construct, which could make beekeeping a nice side project, and honey would be a luxury good you could sell for a high price on par with your little Vodka distillery.

Bessemer Process [0/??25+??] [Rare]
You'll call it something else, of course. This 'Bessemer' is apparently the one who invented a way to mass-produce steel. Steel - Iron treated just so that it becomes harder and more durable than almost any other metal in the world. A way to produce large amounts of steel is the key to all manner of things. Your first attempt will be crude, but this research is clearly of very high importance - not to mention likely to be extremely profitable.
..yeah, we CAN'T allow the Bessemer Process to pass unnoticed. We have TWO iron mines, so it's directly VERY relevant to us. Maybe we could even buy more iron mines, to ensure a source of raw ore for us.

And Beekeeping, in the meantime, gives us a relatively simple side-project to continue raise our income.
 
[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Piper Gerri
[X] Lucille Fairsol
[X] Estrella Burke

[X][Codex] Short Term and Long Haul
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Beekeeping
 
[X][Codex] Short Term and Long Haul
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Beekeeping


Honestly if we're going to go with Bessemer we should SERIOUSLY consider investing MORE than 2 research rolls on it per turn, especially after the wedding is done and we have the actions (and profits) to invest in bringing it to life. Still, it's not like we lack for interesting projects while Bessemer slowly gets researched, so I suppose we can simply reconsider later on, after we're done with our current set of available investments.

Beekeeping is simply a new small projects that will pay dividends sooner rather than later, and with a relatively low initial investment.

If we get architect wife Cement might also be an interesting pick, but that can wait until after the wedding I think, or at least until we actually meet her and see if SHE is going to be the one we pick.


[X] [Codex] Farming and Steel
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Seed Drill and Reaping Machine

With our fief mostly getting its gains from farming, and with us always going to need more workers for everything else, freeing the farmer's time by simplifying both planting and reaping should help us in multiple ways.

Also it gets us an even better rep with our subjects.

I'm honestly a bit stumped about what we are supposed to do with our current finances.

We generate, on average, 4 units of profit per turn after fixed expenses (employees & tithe). Just a single modestly expensive action, like sending Otto to work on the Nesiwald mine, would eat that profit up entirely. A seriously expensive action, like making another windmill, is basically unaffordable without eating multiple turns of savings. And, if we wanted to save, there is the fact that even cheap actions regularly cost 0-2 profit, and with 5 of our own actions plus two employee actions we could eat up our surplus without even buying anything significant.

I guess maybe Nesiwald can offer us some breathing room? But I imagine we want that money for paying off our loan.

Honestly I'm not sure what we are supposed to leverage to scale our net income back up at this point.
well, that's part of what the wedding is for. We get new resources from our wife's family.

Also, we can STILL get new loans, and probably at much better conditions that we got in the past. We HAVE projects to invest in that WILL give us big returns on investments in a year or two, so it might not be a bad idea.

The Bessemer Process requires 25+ codex successes, or a total codex roll of 375+.

An average 1d100 codex roll would be 50 +18 = 68 = 4 successes (@Rockeye that right?).
So we'd need 7 average rolls to complete it.

If voters really want to research the Bessemer Process, then don't half-ass it.
At least vote for [] Bessemer Process x2.
Otherwise it'll take far too long.
maybe after beekeeping is over we can start putting 2 research actions on it. Right now we need a cheap new income source.

If we suddenly find ourselves flush with cash, through funding from our wife's family, unexpected successes, or a new loans, then we can possibly invest even more than 2 actions on bessemer to accelerate it.

[x] Runa Kalenbal.
[x] Nathalie Franzen.
[x] Lucille Fairsol
[x] Estrella Burke

I think all of them have good points, so I don't really care too much. These are only slightly better in my opinion
 
Unrelated to the vote, but what's the plan for making iron plows on the bismarck lands? Do we try to recruit Timothy next turn?

[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Nathalie Franzen
[X] Lucille Fairsol
[X] Nivri Stronrinaid

[X][Codex] Short Term and Long Haul
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Beekeeping
 
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[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Anastriana Whitehall
[X] Estrella Burke
[X] Lucille Fairsol

[X][Codex] Short Term and Long Haul
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Beekeeping
 
[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Anastriana Whitehall
[X] Estrella Burke
[X] Lucille Fairsol

[X][Codex] Short Term and Long Haul
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Beekeeping
 
[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Piper Gerri
[X] Lucille Fairsol
[X] Estrella Burke

[X][Codex] Steel and free hands
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Seed Drill and Reaping Machine

Agree with everyone on Bessemer, but I actually think the food related stuff may be more important long term. Less profit, but it'll free up laborers by increasing yields per person. Also, if people need more tools like horse collars it'll keep our existing stuff in business.
 
I think I made Runa sound too appealing. Lol.

ironically, runa is the only one i'm not interested in lol

[X] Nathalie Franzen.
[X] Piper Gerri.
[X] Anastriana Whitehall.
[X] Lucille Fairsol.
[X] Estrella Burke.
[X] Nivri Stronrinaid.

[X][Codex] Short Term and Long Haul
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Beekeeping
 
If we continue to reduce the amount of labors needed for farming I wonder if eventually we will need to build schools to retrain people that are no longer needed
 
[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Piper Gerri
[x] Anastriana Whitehall
[X] Lucille Fairsol

[X][Codex] Short Term and Long Haul
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Beekeeping

Otherwise it'll take far too long.
I think you mean, "just long enough", here. We don't have all that much cash right now, and won't for the next 2-3 turns due to needing to pony up to repay Renn's loan. For all that cheap steel is a big moneymaker, it's also going to need a hefty chunk of coin to get started (Windmills can get away with being made mostly out of wood - furnaces/refineries can't), which means that even with another small project or two to boost cash flow and whatever cash injection we can get from marriage we'll still need 2-3 turns after that to build up enough money to build a great big smelting facility. And that's not even accounting for any small-scale test pilots or casting/production failures, let alone early cannon experiments or any other expenditures we may want/need to shell out for.

So the earliest we might have the cash needed is 4-6 turns, which is already most of the 7 expected rolls at 1 codex slot a turn. If we roll well we may very well finish it before having the money without needing to ever double up on the Bessemer in the codex, but if not adding 1-2 turns of doubling up in 3-4 turns will have us finishing it in plenty of time.
 
Hmm, I'm wondering what would count as a 'victory condition' for this quest. I worry I won't want to carry it all the way through a "proper" industrial revolution. But a clear marker where things are on the way- Might be nice to have, so I can gracefully end the quest. Because, like, you have seen what my motivation is like sometime right? So having an end in sight, making this a complete journey at some point... Might be nice, instead of it ending up crashed and burned by my own actions like the civ quest, or just left to die.

When the industrial revolution is... Secure and not going to just suddenly collapse.

Perhaps when Lumeria or finally gets alarmed enough to go all purgey on you, Veschwar winning that war without being utterly crippled would mean that Veschwar's status as a proto-industrial power is now secure. If you discover just who or what made the Codex Crystal and do certain things about it, you'll have an advantage so potent that it constitutes a win. There's at least one longshot harebrained scheme involving the gods that I can think of that would constitute a clear win. Not telling what it is, because it's a reaaaallll long shot and you need to know more godlore to even think of the idea.

Perhaps at some point I'll go into a 'victory score' mode. Printing press proliferating in Veschwar. With a booming population and a great increase in literacy and the spread of the written word, a new generation of students studies the sciences, +2. Steel Foundries booming in Veschwar, providing immense amounts of material for new inventions and construction, +1. Weaving Factories constructed in Gastonia, creating vast amounts of wealth, even if it is largely concentrated in the hands of a few, +1. And when you get to some specific number, I call it - the industrial revolution is fully in gear, and you've won the quest, cue epilogue.
 
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Hmm, I'm wondering what would count as a 'victory condition' for this quest. I worry I won't want to carry it all the way through a "proper" industrial revolution. But a clear marker where things are on the way- Might be nice to have, so I can gracefully end the quest. Because, like, you have seen what my motivation is like sometime right? So having an end in sight, making this a complete journey at some point... Might be nice, instead of it ending up crashed and burned by my own actions like the civ quest, or just left to die.

When the industrial revolution is... Secure and not going to just suddenly collapse.

Perhaps when Lumeria or finally gets alarmed enough to go all purgey on you, Veschwar winning that war without being utterly crippled would mean that Veschwar's status as a proto-industrial power is now secure. If you discover just who or what made the Codex Crystal and do certain things about it, you'll have an advantage so potent that it constitutes a win. There's at least one longshot harebrained scheme involving the gods that I can think of that would constitute a clear win. Not telling what it is, because it's a reaaaallll long shot and you need to know more godlore to even think of the idea.

Perhaps at some point I'll go into a 'victory score' mode. Printing press proliferating in Veschwar. With a booming population and a great increase in literacy and the spread of the written word, a new generation of students studies the sciences, +2. Steel Foundries booming in Veschwar, providing immense amounts of material for new inventions and construction, +1. Weaving Factories constructed in Gastonia, creating vast amounts of wealth, even if it is largely concentrated in the hands of a few, +1. And when you get to some specific number, I call it - the industrial revolution is fully in gear, and you've won the quest, cue epilogue.
In that case, perhaps you could make a sequel quest? After all, an industrial revolution is all well and good, but it doesn't necessarily satisfy Harold's dream, and I think that might be even harder to work for.
 
If I do end up completing this quest, I'll definitely be considering a sequel yeah. That's all in the future though.
 
Maybe a Wonder of sorts?

Something that clearly requires a lot of technology and industry that seems like fantasy now. Like the Eifel Tower or the CN Tower. Eifel Tower or an equivalent would require a truly ridiculous amount of steel for no practical reason but aesthetics, while building a CN Tower equivalent requires concrete, steel, and glass, the know how to build something hundreds of of feet tall, a true skyscraper.

Alternatively you could go for a more warlike wonder, a true war industry with factories producing tanks and bombers, the introduction of Total War.

Or if you want to keep to the initial choice of agriculture, it could something simpler or but no less impressive of enabling our small country to somehow feed a set number of truly massive cities, True Cities housing millions of citizens.

Another option is that less than a victory condition and more of a time limit: We only get until Harold is 45 years old at which point the Codex disappears and goes to someone else.
 
The initial choice doesn't really matter in the long run. You're going to have a devil of a time getting manpower without sufficient agricultural reforms though.

A wonder is a good thought.
 
Hmm, I'm wondering what would count as a 'victory condition' for this quest. I worry I won't want to carry it all the way through a "proper" industrial revolution. But a clear marker where things are on the way- Might be nice to have, so I can gracefully end the quest. Because, like, you have seen what my motivation is like sometime right? So having an end in sight, making this a complete journey at some point... Might be nice, instead of it ending up crashed and burned by my own actions like the civ quest, or just left to die.

When the industrial revolution is... Secure and not going to just suddenly collapse.

Perhaps when Lumeria or finally gets alarmed enough to go all purgey on you, Veschwar winning that war without being utterly crippled would mean that Veschwar's status as a proto-industrial power is now secure. If you discover just who or what made the Codex Crystal and do certain things about it, you'll have an advantage so potent that it constitutes a win. There's at least one longshot harebrained scheme involving the gods that I can think of that would constitute a clear win. Not telling what it is, because it's a reaaaallll long shot and you need to know more godlore to even think of the idea.

Perhaps at some point I'll go into a 'victory score' mode. Printing press proliferating in Veschwar. With a booming population and a great increase in literacy and the spread of the written word, a new generation of students studies the sciences, +2. Steel Foundries booming in Veschwar, providing immense amounts of material for new inventions and construction, +1. Weaving Factories constructed in Gastonia, creating vast amounts of wealth, even if it is largely concentrated in the hands of a few, +1. And when you get to some specific number, I call it - the industrial revolution is fully in gear, and you've won the quest, cue epilogue.

A point to consider is if you want the quest to continue on past our current protagonist.

Because the death of our current protagonist or him passing the Torch to the next generation could be seen as another option for an endpoint.
 
To be honest I really don't get why so many people are voting for Anastriana, and even more I don't understand why people are voting for both her and Nivri. Both provide military acumen, but Nivri is also good at mathmatics, which means she would be a good fit for helping found an artillery corp. I don't understand why we need two military candidates in the list, I'd prefer to explore a diverse set of options.

[x] Runa Kalenbal.
[x] Estrella Burke, a distant relation to Lord Governor Burke.
[x] Nivri Stronrinaid, a Knight in her own right, second of her line, childless and unmarried.

[X] Anastriana Whitehall
[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Estrella Burke

[X] Runa Kalenbal. The youngest daughter of the newly-raised Count of Kalenbal would tie you to a man who is absolutely rich with ransoms and booty at the moment, and who has an excellent reputation for glory and power. A potent ally, but possibly a distant one and certainly one you don't know anything about personally. Runa is apparently an architect, which is intriguing.

[X] Piper Gerri. While Franz Gerri, the heir presumptive to the name, somehow infuriates you with his very presence, they are your immediate neighbors to the south and a marriage would secure an alliance. There are all sorts of ways close-by allied houses can help each other where distant ones cannot. Your wife could handle all the diplomacy with the family, hopefully. She is said to be quite attractive.

[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Anastriana Whitehall
[X] Nivri Stronrinaid

Only this three had their pitch sold to me.



No, you did good. I can already picture number of issues that come with her :)

Would you be willing to consider adding Lucille Fairsol to your lists? Since you have an open spot it wouldn't require droping any of your votes. I'd very much like Lucille to be considered as she seems to be the most diplomacy gifted, and I think the link to Shallya is worth considering based on what Shallya did for us this turn.

Unrelated to the vote, but what's the plan for making iron plows on the bismarck lands? Do we try to recruit Timothy next turn?

I believe that is the current working plan. We need to visit Nesiwald anyways, so this would be a good time to do so.

The Bessemer Process requires 25+ codex successes, or a total codex roll of 375+.

An average 1d100 codex roll would be 50 +18 = 68 = 4 successes (@Rockeye that right?).
So we'd need 7 average rolls to complete it.

If voters really want to research the Bessemer Process, then don't half-ass it.
At least vote for [] Bessemer Process x2.
Otherwise it'll take far too long.

We have a lot of prep work to do, so I don't mind it taking that long. I'd also like to use the other slot for working on other things that don't require as much prep.
 
To be honest I really don't get why so many people are voting for Anastriana, and even more I don't understand why people are voting for both her and Nivri. Both provide military acumen, but Nivri is also good at mathmatics, which means she would be a good fit for helping found an artillery corp. I don't understand why we need two military candidates in the list, I'd prefer to explore a diverse set of options.


Would you be willing to consider adding Lucille Fairsol to your lists? Since you have an open spot it wouldn't require droping any of your votes. I'd very much like Lucille to be considered as she seems to be the most diplomacy gifted, and I think the link to Shallya is worth considering based on what Shallya did for us this turn.



I believe that is the current working plan. We need to visit Nesiwald anyways, so this would be a good time to do so.



We have a lot of prep work to do, so I don't mind it taking that long. I'd also like to use the other slot for working on other things that don't require as much prep.
Oi. Gentle warning against mass vote pings.
 
I imagine the surest way of determining if the Industrial Revolution is underway would be the moment the Book is no longer needed, and people are outright innovating and inventing new things in their own right.
 
[X] Runa Kalenbal
[X] Anastriana Whitehall
[X] Estrella Burke
[X] Lucille Fairsol

[X][Codex] Short Term and Long Haul
-[X] Bessemer Process
-[X] Beekeeping
 
To be honest I really don't get why so many people are voting for Anastriana, and even more I don't understand why people are voting for both her and Nivri. Both provide military acumen, but Nivri is also good at mathmatics, which means she would be a good fit for helping found an artillery corp. I don't understand why we need two military candidates in the list, I'd prefer to
I already stated why I am voting for only two
Either, the rich architect to fund our projects, or Piper who can create an alliance and deal with the Diplomacy issues we will have. Not interested in the rest enough to widen any gap.
Unless you are willing to convince people to vote Piper, not interested.
 
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