We may be able to if forgework is available next month and we pass that but it is a big risk.
Industrialization Quest
- Thread starter Rockeye
- Start date
- Original
With this line, I'm surprised nobody thought to move water with air. Just a wind mill that lifts water, whatever design you use for that (likely an Archimedes Screw), should be enough to fill a basin from the river, meaning less work going out for water. Particularly if you use wood or stone channels to move that basin into the town proper.
Though, that would benefit most from a vertical blade windmill, and I don't know if that concept has been introduced to our PC yet. Less power overall, but it's not picky about where the wind comes from so it's much more consistent without needing a swivel head.
EDIT- Also, is there any way to sell the goddess on our sand casting again? Maybe after the project is done? Once the process is perfected, it should be much better and worth her attention. Frankly, it should have been the first time, except for those lousy rolls and our "need" to keep it secret instead of, you know, getting professional help.
Last edited:
Rockeye said:
Dreselin, goddess of crafts, but, you know, not those crafts.
Yup, that last plan was really too expensive, horse collars and the mill model? Now we got people excited and might not have the money to actually do it.
- Location
- Lost to the Depths of the Deep Web
Fuck Dreselin. We'll make amazing things out of sandcasting and none will be for Dreselin at the very least I'll push for us to make nada for her. NADA!
Other than that the rolls were good. Yoked, smithing stonks, making mini models and being buds!
We need to create a future not relient on 'Gods' only Man! As it should be! So preach it!
Honestly, I think we should tone down our pique at Dreselin.
She might be wrong in this instance, but she is still a God and we best not make more powerful enemies. The army hating us is more than enough to deal with.
Instead I say we take the approach that we will continue to improve the method of sand casting until we can produce something that is worthy of being called craftsmanship, and present it to Dreslin. Basically, we become that stubborn fellow who doesn't give up when told to, but still does listen to criticism, and attempts to improve based on it. That ought to put us on the right side of "annoying, but occasionally interesting, and so I won't smite him" balance.
She might be wrong in this instance, but she is still a God and we best not make more powerful enemies. The army hating us is more than enough to deal with.
Instead I say we take the approach that we will continue to improve the method of sand casting until we can produce something that is worthy of being called craftsmanship, and present it to Dreslin. Basically, we become that stubborn fellow who doesn't give up when told to, but still does listen to criticism, and attempts to improve based on it. That ought to put us on the right side of "annoying, but occasionally interesting, and so I won't smite him" balance.
- Location
- Australia
Threw together a (not very good) thing.
(When we have completed some more projects.)
(When we have completed some more projects.)
- Location
- Israel
Okay, as much as I want to say "to hell with Dreselin", I agree that we shouldn't piss her off further right now. We'll let things die down for now and focus on vodka before returning to sand crafting.
Thinking on it for a bit we were pretty silly to think Dreselin would actually be a good god for us.
Dreselin is not just the god of crafting he has an explicit focus on quality and masterwork crafting. We on the other hand are going in the direct opposite direction, cheaper quicker mass produced goods but of lesser quality. That is a big distinction that was missed.
Dreselin is not just the god of crafting he has an explicit focus on quality and masterwork crafting. We on the other hand are going in the direct opposite direction, cheaper quicker mass produced goods but of lesser quality. That is a big distinction that was missed.
Shouldn't this be "+2 Profit", based on the roll-result (>80)? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
- Location
- Australia
Natural roll.
I guess I shouldn't read updates when I'm still sleepy after just waking up, then...
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Wait a minute... ohhh...
That says 5 profit on horse collars. Oops. I was reading the 3 as profit cost.
We're still alright, we only really absolutely have to start the mill on turn 9, though we might lose out on some profit the turn it comes online. At the same time, we're pretty clearly seeing signals that we can invest in a proper carpentry business (massively helpful for the mill) or smithy upgrade soon, and we're going to have significantly more money from the collars than I anticipated. We should have a bit of actual wiggle room to go for a small investment despite the winter tax.
In addition to that, we get to ignore dc penalties for busy season stuff (-20, if I recall), which guarantees the entire first stage automatically succeeds every check (DC 30, flat 32 bonus), which dramatically increases the odds we succeed in a notable way (maybe enough to be a bit ahead of schedule? It's a lot to ask, but two or three great successes in a row should mean something on the scale of multiple turns).
That says 5 profit on horse collars. Oops. I was reading the 3 as profit cost.
We're still alright, we only really absolutely have to start the mill on turn 9, though we might lose out on some profit the turn it comes online. At the same time, we're pretty clearly seeing signals that we can invest in a proper carpentry business (massively helpful for the mill) or smithy upgrade soon, and we're going to have significantly more money from the collars than I anticipated. We should have a bit of actual wiggle room to go for a small investment despite the winter tax.
In addition to that, we get to ignore dc penalties for busy season stuff (-20, if I recall), which guarantees the entire first stage automatically succeeds every check (DC 30, flat 32 bonus), which dramatically increases the odds we succeed in a notable way (maybe enough to be a bit ahead of schedule? It's a lot to ask, but two or three great successes in a row should mean something on the scale of multiple turns).
- Location
- Italy
the previous blessing made us hopeful.
I think we should do two things
1)Stop praying to Dreseling until we either perfect the method and get actually GOOD products out of it. At that point we might maybe make an argument for "with mass producted things for the less-wealthy, the TRUE masters of the craft will have more time to strive for perfection.
Basically mass producted things for general use, and "PERFECT" things for the rich. That might get Dreselin to at least not hate/curse us.
2)If we want to make peace with Dreselin, but the products of sand casting end up not being up to standards, we could try for a different project with her. The one I think it might interest her/it (i STILL can't remember if Dreseling is a he or a she!) could be steel production.
Steel is under most aspects better than Iron. Creating a NEW material (or, to be more precise, allowing a better material to be more widely available) for the craftsman to use might get us some grudging approval
3) first, reread this quote:
"To make something as best you can is holy and good. Whether your profession is blacksmith or cooper or seamstress, carpenter or furniture-maker or mason, goldsmith or gemcutter or tailor... If you make something, Dreselin wants your attention and wants you to make it to the best of your skills. She'll give you inspiration and a steady hand, because she loves seeing what the minds and tools of mortal craft can create. Seek inspiration here, or ask for steady hands and solid tools."
What we're trying to do is not sand-casting, or a better farming technique, or a cheaper alcohol. Those are just means, tools to an end.
Our goal is to craft a better society, where people will have more free time, more wealth, better health, where there is less ilnesses and suffering.
In such a society more people would be alive, and better able to pursue their goals.
THAT is our true objective, the TRUE masterwork we're going to create: a (relatively more) modern and better society for everyone that lives in it.
Wouldn't that be something that Dreselin could admire?
It's maybe a bit methaphorycal, but I think this line of thinking might actually get het/his approval.
NICE. I doubt we'll ever be actually good warriors, but I think there is some potential for redeeming ourselves. Maybe in the future we might write a book on tactical and strategical thinking. If the Codex could give us somehow access to something like the Art of War..
good, I was starting to think that this category of actions was really slow to progress.
Maybe we shoud try to ask the codex about itself again. Maybe it can rise the dice rolled again.
I knew we should have gone with blatant... though maybe it wouldn't have played nice with the mini-mill attempt..
- Location
- Australia
Synergy/Vertical integration: we build a slitting mill powered by the river to make iron nails for the carpentry business. Iron mine that we own ---> Smithy that we have an affiliation with ---> Slitting mill that we own --> Woodworking shop that we own.
Last edited:
- Location
- Israel
Well what would be a good course of action then?
- Location
- Philippines
Ironically this is good character development for Harold. Remember that he failed because not only was he not ready for his position, he assumed his failure was from not knowing enough. That by doing something he is good at will he be able to shine. Thus pouring into the family archives and using the codex to do what he feels is a way to move on.
He's done a lot of good, no doubt about that, but he is still prideful in that only his way can lead to a better future. This is a wake-up call to him if anything. Harold's been so focused on short term goals that he's missed the bigger picture.
He shouldn't expect things to go his way all the time and blame everyone else when he'd "tried his best". It's an excuse for mediocrity now in his eyes. One that's showing how bad it's effect can be if he keeps forcing his way without proper understanding of what's going on.
Another lesson he's learned is reliance on others. On paper, asking for help is a no-brainer but his justification of him trying his best makes it seem like everyone else is at fault because they didnt try hard enough.
All in all, good job @Rockeye you've not only made an interesting quest, you even had time to include a believable character in all of this. (Quests like this don't usually do that, focusing more on problem solving and society building)
He's done a lot of good, no doubt about that, but he is still prideful in that only his way can lead to a better future. This is a wake-up call to him if anything. Harold's been so focused on short term goals that he's missed the bigger picture.
He shouldn't expect things to go his way all the time and blame everyone else when he'd "tried his best". It's an excuse for mediocrity now in his eyes. One that's showing how bad it's effect can be if he keeps forcing his way without proper understanding of what's going on.
Another lesson he's learned is reliance on others. On paper, asking for help is a no-brainer but his justification of him trying his best makes it seem like everyone else is at fault because they didnt try hard enough.
All in all, good job @Rockeye you've not only made an interesting quest, you even had time to include a believable character in all of this. (Quests like this don't usually do that, focusing more on problem solving and society building)
Dreselin thoughts 1
- Location
- Italy
HAROLD'S THOUGHTS AND A MIND MADE UP.
Harold didn't sleep well that night, the scolding of the God heavy on his mind. Nightmares plagued him, indecision and doubt took a hold of his mind.
Tossing and turning, he ended up spending most of night awake, deep in thought.
What could he do? He didn't dare to speak of this with his friends. What if they tried to dissuade him from his course of action? It's unwise, after all, for a mortal to ignore a God's warnings.
Would Greens give up, if he revealed Dreselin's disapproval? He feared so, and that meant he could not risk it.
Was the God maybe right? Was this a perversion of what true craftsmanship should be?
"Certainly not!" his heart cried out. What right did a God, something that knew not of the hardships mortals faced every single day, have of decrying his methods as unworthy! Couldn't it see how many people it would end up helping?
"...wait! That might be it!"
What did he knew about that God? The words of the priest came back to mind:
"To make something as best you can is holy and good. Whether your profession is blacksmith or cooper or seamstress, carpenter or furniture-maker or mason, goldsmith or gemcutter or tailor... If you make something, Dreselin wants your attention and wants you to make it to the best of your skills. She'll give you inspiration and a steady hand, because she loves seeing what the minds and tools of mortal craft can create. Seek inspiration here, or ask for steady hands and solid tools."
...It doesn't matter what your profession is. It doesn't matter what you're making.
Shouldn't that mean that, in Dreselin's eye, a good story is worth as much as a good sword? Both Blacksmiths and writers are creators of a sort after all, and a book is nothing if not a creation born of sharp mind and quick pen.
And what of your goal? In the end sandcasting is not your goal. Not really.
Nor is the mill. Or the horse collars. Or the improvements to the mine.
Those are just tools, means to an end.
And that end.. that end is certainly worth striving for.
A rich society, where people won't ever starve.
An healthy society, where children who could one day grow up to being great don't die in their crib for so stupid a reason as a cold winter.
An happier society, where everyone would be free to pursue your ambitions.
Where people like you would't be forced to join the army just because it was expected of them.
Yes, such a society would require mass produced goods for the common people... but wouldn't that leave more time for the true masters to pursue perfection? Wouldn't the nobles and the rich still ask for superior things, to distinguish themselves from the masses?
Yes, such a society still has a place for the pursue of perfection. The world would always have a place for master craftsmen.
...And such a world, if he could really manage to make it real, would certainly be something worthy of being admired. More than a pretty shirt or a fancy painting. That would be his masterpiece, something Dreselin itself will have no choice but to admire.
Yes, Harold decided. He would stay the course. Tomorrow he would pray again to Dreselin, pour out his heart and mind, and explain.
Explain his goals, his aims, and how they didn't go against the god's values.
He would explain how such a world would be his creation, the one thing that would give his life value. And that he would pursue such, with or without the god's help, because it was the right thing to do.
Even if the divine being disapproved.
And so, with his mind made up, he went back to bed. An arduous task awaited for him in the morning.
so, I tried a thing. I was annoyed about Dreseling denouncing our methods, so I ended up thinking: "what could we do to change his mind?"
This is what I ended up with.
I thought about also writing Harold directly speaking to the God, maybe also adding it's answer, but in the end I decided against it.
After all I don't know if Dreselin would actually accept such a reasoning. Only @Rockeye would know, so (if this ends up being canon) I think it's better if I leave an eventual answer from the god up to the QM.
Give me your thoughts!
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
On Dreselin hating us:
You are not worthy. You rush about and flail wildly as you try to imitate your betters. Craftsmanship is carefulness and perfection, and you would pervert it like this? Your method of casting is unworthy of a true craftsman, for it produces inferior goods marred by haste. Its only purpose is speed, producing a flawed product at a rapid pace. Such is an offense to true craft everywhere. That you did not understand this and cease is a mark against you. Repent, o faithful, and destroy your cursed, imperfect works!
I believe she's only angry because we sold useless shite. Note the blessing dispersed the turn we started selling the casts. Note her own words that specify our repentance should be in destroying our imperfect works. Gods are simple creatures, with a very simple way of understanding what people think or do. She saw us sell the low-quality experimental product and, due to her nature, could only assume we got what we intended to get from the casting process, and in that case would be rightfully smitefully angry about it.
Perfecting the process, and enshrining the proper result, is as likely to cool her anger off as stopping the attempt altogether.
You are not worthy. You rush about and flail wildly as you try to imitate your betters. Craftsmanship is carefulness and perfection, and you would pervert it like this? Your method of casting is unworthy of a true craftsman, for it produces inferior goods marred by haste. Its only purpose is speed, producing a flawed product at a rapid pace. Such is an offense to true craft everywhere. That you did not understand this and cease is a mark against you. Repent, o faithful, and destroy your cursed, imperfect works!
I believe she's only angry because we sold useless shite. Note the blessing dispersed the turn we started selling the casts. Note her own words that specify our repentance should be in destroying our imperfect works. Gods are simple creatures, with a very simple way of understanding what people think or do. She saw us sell the low-quality experimental product and, due to her nature, could only assume we got what we intended to get from the casting process, and in that case would be rightfully smitefully angry about it.
Perfecting the process, and enshrining the proper result, is as likely to cool her anger off as stopping the attempt altogether.
Oh yeah, talking about retcons, don't we get explosions at 95-100 in Stewardship/learning? More Horse Collars was a 97.
Dreselin thoughts 2
- Location
- Texas
I wrote a little omake based on Pittauro's thoughts, came to post it... only to find they had already put one up. Shoot!
Well, I'll still leave it here. It does have a different style to it, so it might be worth a read. Really though, the credit should go to Pittauro for inspiring me. And to Rockeye of course. Thank you for giving us such a fascinating world to enjoy!
------
Harold Bismarck got out of bed in the small of the night, sighing. Dreselin's anger had struck the former noble hard, and he found himself… not disputing it, precisely. It was understandable from a certain perspective. But it wasn't exactly right, either.
As he wandered through his home to get a drink, Harold ransacked his brain. The situation reminded him of something, he was sure of it, but he couldn't quite place it… until he heard two owls outside his window, hooting at the same time.
It was like a moment he'd witnessed long in the past. His father had been furious with another noble about something, shouting at the man while he tried to explain. Both men ended up talking past each other, neither quite addressing the other's complaint. In a flash of insight, Harold realized that being in that situation with a god was a good way for his new career to come to an end. Well, there was one thing he could do about that. Nodding, Harold walked back to his bed, kneeling by it and focusing on Dreselin's holy symbol in his mind as he began to pray.
"Dreselin, god of craftsmanship, of perfection in creation. I have angered you with my failures and frustration, and for this I apologize. I think I better understand your displeasure with the failed attempts at casting, now. I should not have wasted your time by asking for your help to produce results so flawed."
Harold paused to take a deep breath. This was the part that could make him… or break him.
"But what I failed to understand about myself was… my goal should never have been the figures, the symbols, the odds and ends. I lost sight of the real purpose."
"I have had visions, oh great Dreselin. Cities of glass and metal and stone, bridges through the sky, wonders beyond compare made possible through a combination of perfected craftsmanship, and new means of creation. These new methods removed the simple drudgery, made basic parts and tools, freeing those most worthy of your love to focus on creating miracles of creation."
"A blacksmith in training does not make dozens of simple knives in order to make many knives. He does it to memorize and master the craft of shaping the iron. I focused on the knives, and lost sight of the skills I should have been developing."
"I will do better. I will use what I have learned to help make things more worthy of you, new ways to create. And these I will bring to you, to show you some of the creativity my mind has glimpsed. I ask not for your aid, for I know I am unworthy. I ask only that you stay your wrath, for I must work with others to do this, and they are good people who do not deserve such punishment. Let me learn from them, so that I can be better. Let me show them what I have seen, so that they can make new stepping stones on the path to future… a future where all can enjoy the fruits of the high craftsmanship you love."
"Thank you for your time."
Yawning, Harold climbed back into bed, pulling his blanket over himself and going back to sleep more easily. He had tried. Now to see if it worked… and to redo the books for the blacksmith in the morning. Honestly, how had the man lost two zeroes, it was… zzzzzz...
Well, I'll still leave it here. It does have a different style to it, so it might be worth a read. Really though, the credit should go to Pittauro for inspiring me. And to Rockeye of course. Thank you for giving us such a fascinating world to enjoy!
------
Harold Bismarck got out of bed in the small of the night, sighing. Dreselin's anger had struck the former noble hard, and he found himself… not disputing it, precisely. It was understandable from a certain perspective. But it wasn't exactly right, either.
As he wandered through his home to get a drink, Harold ransacked his brain. The situation reminded him of something, he was sure of it, but he couldn't quite place it… until he heard two owls outside his window, hooting at the same time.
It was like a moment he'd witnessed long in the past. His father had been furious with another noble about something, shouting at the man while he tried to explain. Both men ended up talking past each other, neither quite addressing the other's complaint. In a flash of insight, Harold realized that being in that situation with a god was a good way for his new career to come to an end. Well, there was one thing he could do about that. Nodding, Harold walked back to his bed, kneeling by it and focusing on Dreselin's holy symbol in his mind as he began to pray.
"Dreselin, god of craftsmanship, of perfection in creation. I have angered you with my failures and frustration, and for this I apologize. I think I better understand your displeasure with the failed attempts at casting, now. I should not have wasted your time by asking for your help to produce results so flawed."
Harold paused to take a deep breath. This was the part that could make him… or break him.
"But what I failed to understand about myself was… my goal should never have been the figures, the symbols, the odds and ends. I lost sight of the real purpose."
"I have had visions, oh great Dreselin. Cities of glass and metal and stone, bridges through the sky, wonders beyond compare made possible through a combination of perfected craftsmanship, and new means of creation. These new methods removed the simple drudgery, made basic parts and tools, freeing those most worthy of your love to focus on creating miracles of creation."
"A blacksmith in training does not make dozens of simple knives in order to make many knives. He does it to memorize and master the craft of shaping the iron. I focused on the knives, and lost sight of the skills I should have been developing."
"I will do better. I will use what I have learned to help make things more worthy of you, new ways to create. And these I will bring to you, to show you some of the creativity my mind has glimpsed. I ask not for your aid, for I know I am unworthy. I ask only that you stay your wrath, for I must work with others to do this, and they are good people who do not deserve such punishment. Let me learn from them, so that I can be better. Let me show them what I have seen, so that they can make new stepping stones on the path to future… a future where all can enjoy the fruits of the high craftsmanship you love."
"Thank you for your time."
Yawning, Harold climbed back into bed, pulling his blanket over himself and going back to sleep more easily. He had tried. Now to see if it worked… and to redo the books for the blacksmith in the morning. Honestly, how had the man lost two zeroes, it was… zzzzzz...
Last edited:
- Location
- Italy
I realized my thoughts would be better expressed as an omake, and I was about to ask if someone wanted to write it when I just thought...well, I have the time, Why don't I do it?
I didn't think I had to worry about anyone doing it before me, I wrote it pretty quickly after all
Your omake probably works better, and they can can mostly work one as a sequel to the other. I didn't show the "prayer" to Dreselin after all.
another (or maybe an other?)