In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Discussing Jade?
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Risky. Jade is a divisive subject, as pretty much everyone except for the Crab would rather use it for art than military supplies. Tea would be much safer, though it is a bit predictable. We can't really side with the Crab on theater, otherwise I'd suggest discussing that and being in favor of draw-lots plays... Also, tea might reinforce to our Kaiu contact that we all we really care about is food, so that might be out. I'd suggest something military, but we could wind up being at odds with the Lion, Unicorn, and/or Dragon in that case...
Architecture might work. Being able to speak knowledgeably about it (because we can speak knowledgeably about darn near anything) would likely endear us to the Crab, and stating that the Kaiu are the best architects in Rokugan isn't exactly a controversial opinion.
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
Hardly. We do trade on the river, and the rivers lead to the sea. If anything we help each other by expanding our trade routes.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There are definitely some potential causes of friction... but right now the Scorpion need (primarily) wood, paper, food, and koku. That last is something that the Mantis have in abundance.
Actually... looking alllll the way back to chapter 1.5, our two biggest rivals (initially) were likely to be the Lion and Crane. Right now, they're probably the two delegations that we're in best shape with. If we can figure out how not to get killed, actually nail down some trade agreements, and track down Bayushi Kimiko's murderer, we might actually have performed our duty unexpectedly well!
Food for thought, at the very least.
Actually... looking alllll the way back to chapter 1.5, our two biggest rivals (initially) were likely to be the Lion and Crane. Right now, they're probably the two delegations that we're in best shape with. If we can figure out how not to get killed, actually nail down some trade agreements, and track down Bayushi Kimiko's murderer, we might actually have performed our duty unexpectedly well!
Food for thought, at the very least.
- Location
- Leeds
We'll save that for when we have Awareness 10.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm still holding out hope for Intelligence 5.
Also, hrm.
Well, as far as discussion topics go, how far are we into the season?
Is it the 'down to business' stage yet, or not? Either way, even with an Int of 4 (I say 'even with' even though it's really smart) we're smart enough that pretty much any topic we address we're going to be able to at least contribute something.
Also, hrm.
Well, as far as discussion topics go, how far are we into the season?
Is it the 'down to business' stage yet, or not? Either way, even with an Int of 4 (I say 'even with' even though it's really smart) we're smart enough that pretty much any topic we address we're going to be able to at least contribute something.
- Location
- Earth
Ok, so Baiyushi did her thing by being a crazy strong fighter, we can take these five days to be our time to establish ourselves and get to know people as a delegation head, not an asistant.
Subject to discuss:
[X]The victory of the Phoenix in the Bowmans wager as a lead in for the kami:"Shiba-san may not have called on any kami to aid him in the wager, but they surely smiled on him that day. Are those closer to enlightenment also closer to the kami?" as a way to segway into talk about kami in Rokugan and their role in everyday life. Perhaps the gathered samurai have their own stories of meeting the spirits?
[X]The sword styles of the various schools, their advantages, applications and the underlying school of thought and philosophy they originate from.
[X] The Empire wide rebuilding efforts and their effects on trade in Beiden Pass.
[X]The game of Go and the symbolism it carries. It's strategies and what can be learned from playing it, both of whom one plays with, and of strategy in general.
[X]Cede the floor on the fifth day. We would not want to push too much.
As for who to talk to? I am still considering. I need to go back and see what we can see. We might want to meet with the Unicorn. We might be able to make another ally if all they want is peace. After all, it is what we are after. For now. Meeting with Otomo is on the list.
I would really like to meet with a Lion, if not the daimyo herself, then maybe the Ikoma. Perhaps give them a gift for the young heir, one of those wards Yogo-san can make, just for these three days of silence. And maybe get permission to ward our quarters as well. After all, what is good enough for the young prince, might be permissible for the guests as well.
One of those afternoons slots should be dedicated to meeting Pale Oak, and going over his investigation so far.Maybe contributing somehow, possibly by speaking to Daidoji. Also, on the day before the silence descends, we might want to go pray.
Subject to discuss:
[X]The victory of the Phoenix in the Bowmans wager as a lead in for the kami:"Shiba-san may not have called on any kami to aid him in the wager, but they surely smiled on him that day. Are those closer to enlightenment also closer to the kami?" as a way to segway into talk about kami in Rokugan and their role in everyday life. Perhaps the gathered samurai have their own stories of meeting the spirits?
[X]The sword styles of the various schools, their advantages, applications and the underlying school of thought and philosophy they originate from.
[X] The Empire wide rebuilding efforts and their effects on trade in Beiden Pass.
[X]The game of Go and the symbolism it carries. It's strategies and what can be learned from playing it, both of whom one plays with, and of strategy in general.
[X]Cede the floor on the fifth day. We would not want to push too much.
As for who to talk to? I am still considering. I need to go back and see what we can see. We might want to meet with the Unicorn. We might be able to make another ally if all they want is peace. After all, it is what we are after. For now. Meeting with Otomo is on the list.
I would really like to meet with a Lion, if not the daimyo herself, then maybe the Ikoma. Perhaps give them a gift for the young heir, one of those wards Yogo-san can make, just for these three days of silence. And maybe get permission to ward our quarters as well. After all, what is good enough for the young prince, might be permissible for the guests as well.
One of those afternoons slots should be dedicated to meeting Pale Oak, and going over his investigation so far.Maybe contributing somehow, possibly by speaking to Daidoji. Also, on the day before the silence descends, we might want to go pray.
Actually, most of those the Scorpion already has:
In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest) | Page 175
Not quite sure what sort of goods or materials they currently require, though.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is what I'm referring to. It's likely that we do have such materials for trade - there are a couple of sections in the book detailing how trade in Rokugan can often involve things like the Crane selling rice to the Lion and the Lion selling their own rice back to the Crane due to how complex the agreements can get and the needs of Court - but ideally we would want to import the things I mentioned on average, and export iron, herbs, and Jade.
I had forgotten about what we do have to offer. my plan wouldn't give us what we need.
we shold talk with the Phoenix, Daidoji and the Ikoma to see what kind of material/ honors (school positions) they need/can offer.
we already have an in with the Crab, where we will probably be robed blind.
so that's leave us with the Unicorn, Dragon and Mantis to meet. and get some kind of agreement from.
primarily keep the Tariffs were they are, unless the Mantis try to outbid us. and sell as many resources for other material.
we shold talk with the Phoenix, Daidoji and the Ikoma to see what kind of material/ honors (school positions) they need/can offer.
we already have an in with the Crab, where we will probably be robed blind.
so that's leave us with the Unicorn, Dragon and Mantis to meet. and get some kind of agreement from.
primarily keep the Tariffs were they are, unless the Mantis try to outbid us. and sell as many resources for other material.
- Location
- Moon-Station
side-question. is there any way that we could persuade chen to act as our yoyimbo, either officially or unofficially?
Frankly, both factions are kind of underrepresented after the recent deaths and having "each others backs" in a more than figurative sense may serve us well. We have proven that we are not slouches either when it comes to fighting.
Frankly, both factions are kind of underrepresented after the recent deaths and having "each others backs" in a more than figurative sense may serve us well. We have proven that we are not slouches either when it comes to fighting.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Asking a foreign dignitary to act as your bodyguard seems... sort of insulting. The idea isn't bad though - maybe call it an informal mutual defense pact?
Thought we want to be careful - the Crane might currently be our diplomatic aies, but at the same time their damaged state means that they might have less available to assist our Clan. Our duty requires that we do whatever possible to gain trade relationships and resources for the Clan, and if defending the Crane comes into conflict with that, we will have to pick our duty over our conscience...
Sirrocco
Pedantic
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So... various things to try to achieve with our picks.
General stuff:
- generally interesting
- generally pleasing
- reflects well on us and/or makes us appear to be as we wish to appear to be
In general, not only are we choosing the topic, but everyone knows that we're choosing that topic, and then everyone gets to go through a chunk of time at court where they're talking about that topic. Thus, there's a bit of a bump just from choosing topics that people will find interesting to think about, pleasing to consider, and so forth. Also, people will be drawing conclusions about us based on what we select, and we should own that.
Specific stuff:
- Picking fights we know we can win (if we want to win fights) or topics where we personally will shine
- Positioning the conversation so that we can *then* curry favor with one group or another
- guiding the conversation, and thus what people are thinking about, in order to guide how they think
- Currying favor with one group or another by selecting these things on their behalf (either subtly or openly).
- Currying favor with one group or another by letting them know what topic you intend to introduce, sot hat they can be properly prepared
So then... what *are* our objectives?
- In general, not making enemies. We want to be friends with everyone.
- Currying additional favor with Otomo-sama. Assuming he lives, the more favor we have with Otomo-sama walking out of this, the better it is for us, and for our clan
...
Also, what we want to hit for the afternoon...
edit: I was starting to assemble the above, and then suddenly started getting full-formed ideas in my head, so I started writing them down instead, and once I'd done that, I didn't have a whole lot of motivation for reconstructing objectives.
I'm assembling this out of parts - a fair bit of it was stolen shamelessly from @primemountain, and at least a bit was inspired by @storybookknight
[x]Plan Squid
- Day 2 conversation: The victory of the Phoenix in the Bowmans wager as a lead in for the kami:"Shiba-san may not have called on any kami to aid him in the wager, but they surely smiled on him that day. Are those closer to enlightenment also closer to the kami?" as a way to segue into talk about kami in Rokugan and their role in everyday life. Perhaps the gathered samurai have their own stories of meeting the spirits? (curries mild favor with both phoenix, while upsetting few if any)
- Day 2 afternoon: Meet with the Phoenix. Follows on nicely from the topic, lets us know what was wagered and won, lets us continue to establish that bond, and so forth. Spend the day in conversations both philosophical and political.
- Day 3 conversation: The sword styles of the various schools, their advantages, applications and the underlying school of thought and philosophy they originate from. Encourage everyone to share some of the subtleties of the underpinnings of their schools - nothing secret, but the sort of thing that outsiders wouldn't necessarily think about or know. Gives the bushi something to be expert about after a shugenja-heavy Day 1, and possibly even leads to better understanding among the various groups
- Day 3 afternoon: Meet with Otomo-sama. Be respectful. Maintain your relationship with the man (including offering to be helpful, if he has help that he might want). Note that you *do* seem to have this brief moment of influence over the topic of the day, and inquire as to whether he might have one topic or another that he might be interested in seeing rise the next day. If nothing else, there's sure to be some sort of use in a discussion abotu the rebuilding of the empire.
- Day 4 conversation: Whatever it was that Otomo-sama wanted to talk about. Don't give any indication that he was the one who selected it - he'll make that clear or not, as he sees fit.
- Day 4 afternoon: Meet with Daidoji-san - perhaps over a friendly spar? Note that you seem to have a common enemy, and that there might be advantage in working together to a degree. As a Scorpion, you have certain... sources. Coordinating your information might prove fruitful - especially if he might know of information that would be useful to know (and that you could potentially find and tell him) that you might not have considered. As well, when it does come time for the assault, you would like to assist, if he would have you. You are quite certain that Yogo Hanzo would also be interested in such a thing.
- Day 5 conversation: Bushido, and how, though we all cleave to Bushido, and it strengthens all of us, we apply ourselves to different aspects, and it strengthens us in different ways. Use brief stories of ones ancestors as examples to draw from (blatantly currying favor with the Lion, while not leaving anyone out in the cold. "Lets talk about how honorable my ancestors were" is a relaxing pastime for almost everyone. Should help smooth ruffled feathers a bit, if Otomo-sama chose to ruffle them.)
--- (edit) Particular note: the Mantis may be feeling a bit weak on this day - and we're well-positioned to support them in it. look for decent opportunities to intervene on their behalf, as the example below.
- Day 5 afternoon: Visit with the Crab, as planned
- Day 6 conversation: Depending on how the conversation with the Crab turns out, possibly offer them this small bit of influence. Otherwise, just cede the floor. Better to push too little than too much.
- Day 6 afternoon: Spend the afternoon training in the yards. If you have company in your endeavors, so much the better.
As always, feedback welcomed and requested. Not saying the plan is perfect, but I think it's at least reasonably well-thought-out, and other than the risky bit in the middle with Otomo-sama (and currying favor with Otomo-sama is almost always going to be at least somewhat risky) is decent gain with little loss. It doesn't get us any headway with the Mantis, which is a bit of a shame - though we have a decent chance of getting that by joining in on their side for one of the days. For example, they're likely to be a bit weak on the "Bushido of my ancestors" day, but as Scorpion, we're *good* at seeing the honor in actions that others might not see. For example, Gusai himself showed a great deal of Courage, Sincerity, Loyalty, and Duty. He did something that he knew would get him killed, while also standing up to the potential displeasure of the Emperor Himself, on a question of Truth - serving his family to the very best of his ability... and then, honorably, stepped down and allowed the guards to take him without a fight, so that balance might be restored by his death, just as it is in seppuku.
General stuff:
- generally interesting
- generally pleasing
- reflects well on us and/or makes us appear to be as we wish to appear to be
In general, not only are we choosing the topic, but everyone knows that we're choosing that topic, and then everyone gets to go through a chunk of time at court where they're talking about that topic. Thus, there's a bit of a bump just from choosing topics that people will find interesting to think about, pleasing to consider, and so forth. Also, people will be drawing conclusions about us based on what we select, and we should own that.
Specific stuff:
- Picking fights we know we can win (if we want to win fights) or topics where we personally will shine
- Positioning the conversation so that we can *then* curry favor with one group or another
- guiding the conversation, and thus what people are thinking about, in order to guide how they think
- Currying favor with one group or another by selecting these things on their behalf (either subtly or openly).
- Currying favor with one group or another by letting them know what topic you intend to introduce, sot hat they can be properly prepared
So then... what *are* our objectives?
- In general, not making enemies. We want to be friends with everyone.
- Currying additional favor with Otomo-sama. Assuming he lives, the more favor we have with Otomo-sama walking out of this, the better it is for us, and for our clan
...
Also, what we want to hit for the afternoon...
edit: I was starting to assemble the above, and then suddenly started getting full-formed ideas in my head, so I started writing them down instead, and once I'd done that, I didn't have a whole lot of motivation for reconstructing objectives.
I'm assembling this out of parts - a fair bit of it was stolen shamelessly from @primemountain, and at least a bit was inspired by @storybookknight
[x]Plan Squid
- Day 2 conversation: The victory of the Phoenix in the Bowmans wager as a lead in for the kami:"Shiba-san may not have called on any kami to aid him in the wager, but they surely smiled on him that day. Are those closer to enlightenment also closer to the kami?" as a way to segue into talk about kami in Rokugan and their role in everyday life. Perhaps the gathered samurai have their own stories of meeting the spirits? (curries mild favor with both phoenix, while upsetting few if any)
- Day 2 afternoon: Meet with the Phoenix. Follows on nicely from the topic, lets us know what was wagered and won, lets us continue to establish that bond, and so forth. Spend the day in conversations both philosophical and political.
- Day 3 conversation: The sword styles of the various schools, their advantages, applications and the underlying school of thought and philosophy they originate from. Encourage everyone to share some of the subtleties of the underpinnings of their schools - nothing secret, but the sort of thing that outsiders wouldn't necessarily think about or know. Gives the bushi something to be expert about after a shugenja-heavy Day 1, and possibly even leads to better understanding among the various groups
- Day 3 afternoon: Meet with Otomo-sama. Be respectful. Maintain your relationship with the man (including offering to be helpful, if he has help that he might want). Note that you *do* seem to have this brief moment of influence over the topic of the day, and inquire as to whether he might have one topic or another that he might be interested in seeing rise the next day. If nothing else, there's sure to be some sort of use in a discussion abotu the rebuilding of the empire.
- Day 4 conversation: Whatever it was that Otomo-sama wanted to talk about. Don't give any indication that he was the one who selected it - he'll make that clear or not, as he sees fit.
- Day 4 afternoon: Meet with Daidoji-san - perhaps over a friendly spar? Note that you seem to have a common enemy, and that there might be advantage in working together to a degree. As a Scorpion, you have certain... sources. Coordinating your information might prove fruitful - especially if he might know of information that would be useful to know (and that you could potentially find and tell him) that you might not have considered. As well, when it does come time for the assault, you would like to assist, if he would have you. You are quite certain that Yogo Hanzo would also be interested in such a thing.
- Day 5 conversation: Bushido, and how, though we all cleave to Bushido, and it strengthens all of us, we apply ourselves to different aspects, and it strengthens us in different ways. Use brief stories of ones ancestors as examples to draw from (blatantly currying favor with the Lion, while not leaving anyone out in the cold. "Lets talk about how honorable my ancestors were" is a relaxing pastime for almost everyone. Should help smooth ruffled feathers a bit, if Otomo-sama chose to ruffle them.)
--- (edit) Particular note: the Mantis may be feeling a bit weak on this day - and we're well-positioned to support them in it. look for decent opportunities to intervene on their behalf, as the example below.
- Day 5 afternoon: Visit with the Crab, as planned
- Day 6 conversation: Depending on how the conversation with the Crab turns out, possibly offer them this small bit of influence. Otherwise, just cede the floor. Better to push too little than too much.
- Day 6 afternoon: Spend the afternoon training in the yards. If you have company in your endeavors, so much the better.
As always, feedback welcomed and requested. Not saying the plan is perfect, but I think it's at least reasonably well-thought-out, and other than the risky bit in the middle with Otomo-sama (and currying favor with Otomo-sama is almost always going to be at least somewhat risky) is decent gain with little loss. It doesn't get us any headway with the Mantis, which is a bit of a shame - though we have a decent chance of getting that by joining in on their side for one of the days. For example, they're likely to be a bit weak on the "Bushido of my ancestors" day, but as Scorpion, we're *good* at seeing the honor in actions that others might not see. For example, Gusai himself showed a great deal of Courage, Sincerity, Loyalty, and Duty. He did something that he knew would get him killed, while also standing up to the potential displeasure of the Emperor Himself, on a question of Truth - serving his family to the very best of his ability... and then, honorably, stepped down and allowed the guards to take him without a fight, so that balance might be restored by his death, just as it is in seppuku.
Last edited:
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sirrocco
Pedantic
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, I think we can manage to pull off the "jump unexpectedly to his defense" thing on the Mantis, as noted below my plan. For the Dragon... I'd been under the impression that Yogo Hanzo had a decent workign relationship with teh Dragon for the moment. Obviously we'll have to build on it at some point, but the Dragon don't generally have *all* that much to trade (other than Jade, which the Crab would not thank us for bogarting). Also, this particular Dragon probably doesn't have a whole lot of influence.
Speaking of which... @Maugan Ra - this is a semi-random, relatively minor Winter Court. Why would we be the ones deciding customs fees for all of Rokugan? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Am I missing something?
- Location
- Earth
@Sirrocco: I think I know this one. Beiden pass conects a lot of the Empire. Lion holds one side, Scorpion another. We are deciding customs fees for stuff passing through our lands from Beiden pass. That seem to make the most sense.
I like the plan, though if we could make one alteration? Invite the Unicorn to the training on day 6. That would get us the start of the network there. And I am still hesitant not to do anything about the assasins. Like warding our rooms at least, if not the young heirs rooms.
I like the plan, though if we could make one alteration? Invite the Unicorn to the training on day 6. That would get us the start of the network there. And I am still hesitant not to do anything about the assasins. Like warding our rooms at least, if not the young heirs rooms.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pretty sure our rooms are already being warded... and offering to ward the young heir's room is... odd. It's not like the Lion don't have shugenja of their own, and suggestign that they can't even defend the heir of their diamyo would *not* go over well. Due to the recent troubles, that ward is probably one of the more well-known spells these days, honestly.
For the unicorn... Yogo Hanzo is supposed to be reasonably close to the Unicorn. We don't really need to work that one ourselves - certainly not yet. We should be able to depend on him for an introduction at the appropriate time. We do need to progress forwards on establishign connections, but I don't think we need to hit everyone at once.
For the customs fees... that might make sense if we were talking about the Scorpion fees through Beiden Pass. It would certainly make sense to have the Lion deciding *their* fees through Beiden Pass here. It's the bit where the rest of the clans are deciding fees with respect to the Scorpion (and, presumably, each other) throughout the whole of Rokugan that gets... odd.
For the unicorn... Yogo Hanzo is supposed to be reasonably close to the Unicorn. We don't really need to work that one ourselves - certainly not yet. We should be able to depend on him for an introduction at the appropriate time. We do need to progress forwards on establishign connections, but I don't think we need to hit everyone at once.
For the customs fees... that might make sense if we were talking about the Scorpion fees through Beiden Pass. It would certainly make sense to have the Lion deciding *their* fees through Beiden Pass here. It's the bit where the rest of the clans are deciding fees with respect to the Scorpion (and, presumably, each other) throughout the whole of Rokugan that gets... odd.
I think it was meant to represent how much each clan would pay to move goods from one side to the other, but I agree that it is odd.
in reality we would set a price and they would try to reduce it, but without any need for a specific deal for us to be able to demand payment from the use of the Passage.
- Location
- Moon-Station
[x]Plan Squid
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's fair - I'm happy to accept 'jump to the Mantis defense when possible' as an additional caveat, and if we can rely on Yogo Hanzo to introduce us to the Dragon and Unicorn I think that covers all of our bases.
[X] Plan Squid
- [X] Defend the Mantis if possible on one of the days, possibly Bushido?