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Ignition (MTG/Multicross, Planeswalker PC)
- Thread starter Alivaril
- Start date
-
- Tags
- fairy tail magi: the labyrinth of magic magic the gathering magical girl lyrical nanoha (magical girl) puella magi madoka magica rwby alternate universe spoilers unreliable narrator earned your happy middle feedback appreciated life slowly gets better metaknowledge is overrated never too much fire setting knowledge not required this can only end well what could possibly go wrong?
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
We have a good amount of mana on hand, but we have no idea how much it costs to burn out a tumor, we have no idea how many patients they have, and most importantly, I don't want to get anywhere close to actually spending all of our mana. I don't exactly expect to get into a fight, but judging by that giant black spell and Agneyastra's description of this place's idea of politics, I want to keep as much mana available as I possibly can. If curing someone costs R, we could probably afford to cure three or four people. That's not going to be everyone, not even close.
[x] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure some patients.
-[x] Where you're from it's handled by specialists, and your personal talents lie in other directions so you don't have any practice, but you have the concept and should be capable.
-[x] Have Agneyastra point you at later-stage cases. You want to keep some mana in reserve in case something goes horribly wrong later today, and anyone that isn't terminal can wait until you get TSAB equipment or you can afford to run dry a few days in a row.
Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
Hang on, I thought the whole reason we were doing it this way was so they'd be able to do this themselves? If we didn't want them to be able to cure cancer themselves, I thought we'd be using MG healing which they can't even sense.
[X] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure the patients.
-[X] Offer to cure a few people while their Mages watch. If they can learn the techniques, they're welcome.
-[X] Use both methods with know, in case they have better luck with one over the other.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
...Oh, I see. Giving them a long-term solution could be difficult, not something that will cause problems. Agneyastra was talking about giving them stand-alone TSAB tech and didn't mention teaching them at all, so I figured she was following her usual policy on tech-sharing. I need to read more carefully, apparently.
Okay, yeah.
[x] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure some patients.
-[x] Use colored magic.
-[x] Disclaimer first, though - you're not very good at this, it's usually handled by specialists using different methods than you think you can teach.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure the patients.
-[x] Kill it with fire.
[X]Channel Red to make sure you do it right. There is a time to channel Red and killing with fire is that time.
-[x] Kill it with fire.
[X]Channel Red to make sure you do it right. There is a time to channel Red and killing with fire is that time.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
A channel... maaaaaaaybe? Probably not preferable, though - look at Omri's worry about coming across as too familiar just describing his personal research material, this place is probably pretty concerned with appearances. I don't like risking a major diplomatic incident by loosening up too much, which a Red channel makes a lot more likely.
Worrying about mana cost seems weird when we're in a city that routinely donates mana for spells. They just have to bring in some red mages to drop some red on us and we can cure the whole place, and I don't see why they wouldn't make that arrangement after Jade demonstrates results.
- Location
- florida
[x] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure the patients.
-[x] Kill it with magical girl power.
-[X] Keep an eye on your grief levels and burn it away if it gets too bad.
-[X] explain that you have two solutions. A cure, that only you will be able to do on short notice, and a treatment they should be able to replicate.
-[X] explain how you are using red magic to remove the disease directly. Rather than working with the bodies natural processes.
-[X] This will help in the short term. But it may not be an outright cure.
-[X] Ask mom to give a more detailed explanation of cancer and it's causes, as well as why some forms of healing (such as speeding cell division or restoring from a genetic template) would be ineffective. If not outright detrimental.
Edit: be right back, if we can cure cancer with magical powers, we should do that first and experiment later.
Alright then. Cures first. Experimentation later.
-[x] Kill it with magical girl power.
-[X] Keep an eye on your grief levels and burn it away if it gets too bad.
-[X] explain that you have two solutions. A cure, that only you will be able to do on short notice, and a treatment they should be able to replicate.
-[X] explain how you are using red magic to remove the disease directly. Rather than working with the bodies natural processes.
-[X] This will help in the short term. But it may not be an outright cure.
-[X] Ask mom to give a more detailed explanation of cancer and it's causes, as well as why some forms of healing (such as speeding cell division or restoring from a genetic template) would be ineffective. If not outright detrimental.
Edit: be right back, if we can cure cancer with magical powers, we should do that first and experiment later.
Alright then. Cures first. Experimentation later.
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- Location
- A Table Near You
Ha, it's about time.
Alivaril dropped a hint that Blue mana could be used for counterspell all the way back when Nanoha first tried making the retainer oath and Jade instinctively thought of throwing Blue mana at her to stop it, but for whatever reason it was never followed up on in training plans. (Maybe the thread forgot? Kinda weird.)
This is definitely an ability that deserves training, although it may have to wait until Jade is done vacationing, depending on how Alivaril rules it. I wonder how it interacts with MGLN spells and shields?
Speaking of low hanging fruit, has Jade tried mixing other colors together to see if anything interesting happens? In particular, mixing a bit of Blue into her Red pyrokinesis gave her improved control over her flames and constructs—so what happens when you in mix in Black? Flames that devour magical energy and life to sustain themselves, perhaps? A way to replicate those blackfire constructs we saw in that vision of witchified "fallen archangel" Jade on Velgarth?
Oooh, that sounds useful. Must be a fairly complex spell as well, if Jade didn't pick up an ability from watching it being cast right in front of her. (Or is this simply a more complex casting of counterspell?)
I'm guessing normal White healing doesn't work for the same reason you can't use a simple healing spell to cure a cleft lip; as far as the body is concerned, nothing is wrong. Standard healing spells might even facilitate the cancer growth, if anything.
For the record, I'm fairly sure the reason Jade's been experiencing bouts of intuition like this, along with the more frequent, more controllable precognitive dreams is because Siofra's Origin is maturing—and possibly interfacing weirdly with her Planeswalker Spark.
She's always had nigh-precognitive intuition when it came to magic, but it wasn't so clearly growing stronger before.
Suspiciously sure, eh? There's that intuition again.
No reason not to use Red mana, then. It may net a new ability, and should at least in theory be teachable to the native mages. I'm also interested in seeing how they react to Magical Girl healing, so let's do both.
[X] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure the patients.
-[X] Offer to cure a few people while their Mages watch. If they can learn the techniques, they're welcome.
-[X] Use both methods you know, in case they have better luck with one over the other.
Ha, no. Let's not accidentally a diplomatic incident, please.
I do think it's a good idea to channel colors more often while training, though, especially when experimenting with the corresponding color. The biggest strides in learning new abilities were made while channeling—Blue Jade pulled mental techniques out of thin air, Red Jade discovered Soul Gem warding and summon quickening, etc.
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Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
Given what these people consider mana intensive compared to what Jade considers mana intensive... If we empty our tank, I'm not sure all the mages in the city combined could necessarily fill it.
[X] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure the patients.
-[X] Offer to cure a few people while their Mages watch. If they can learn the techniques, they're welcome.
-[X] Disclaimer first, though - you're not very good at this, it's usually handled by specialists using different methods than you think you can teach.
-[X] Use both methods with know, in case they have better luck with one over the other.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This being a crossover, many of us knew that before the quest started. It's one of the more annoying uses of Blue in Magic the Gathering. We just didn't have any good leads on how to make it happen and didn't have much Blue to practice with anyway.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
The joke goes "one, two, five-", though.
...Well, there goes keeping that aspect of this place hidden. And hoping that it was different, in this AU.
...And there goes us keeping this to ourselves and not letting Nanoha know. Thanks, Astra.
Interesting. About the same as canon. His phrasing is different, though.
Hm. Makes me wonder if there's an equivalent to Sinbad here, and what his deal is. Because his whole schtick is having significantly more Magoi, which is probably the same as mana here, than anyone else, barring maybe Magi, but not being a magician. And the limits on King Candidates involved their personal amount of Magoi, which may or may not be a thing here. Things to look into, I guess.
Yeah, that's about the reaction I'd expect.
Makes sense. On a smaller scale, you might be able to get away with everyone involved giving their mana one person, who knows the complex stuff, and that one person could possibly handle the upkeep, upkeep being less energy intensive. Velgarth mages do that quite often. But the scale involved here might cause that to be impractical..
Some of these could be quite useful. Disorient might be useful for Sidhe, same with Attract/Siphon, and that Crush might be another way for us to attack using Red.
The local mana has a will of it's own, possibly even being under the control of a single mind. Rather more blatantly than on Velgarth, too. So yeah, tapping ambient mana is probably difficult. It's likely to actively resist.
That said, his statement was that it was "more expensive than it really needs to be". With more finesse or effort, it could be cheaper, but this is the "Lazy Countersspell".
Delayed aging of most of his body, more likely. Might have deliberately missed the hair. Alternatively, handling too much mana at once can bleach one's hair. Happens on Velgarth. Same applies to large amount of magic exposure. That might transfer over to other planes, or it might not.
We just immediately told them we knew something they probably hide, and flat-out contradicted their official story. It's less like that, and more like talking about the details of their "work camps" in a public space. So, yeah, we're coming off as unecessarily confrontational, and overly well-informed on oddly specific topics, while being poorly informed on more basic ones. We aren't doing a very good job of flying under the radar.
Depends on the scale. Making fire, at least in-canon, was easy in Velgarth. It was a very basic spell, one of the first a mage would learn. But it was only enough to light a camp fire, or maybe burn some documents. Plus, they could end up burning themselves, if they aren't careful. There's a huge difference between that, and being able to wield fire without a care in the world.
The description of the local politics as came from Sidhe, not Astra. Astra simply said the last leader was assassinated, and they lack successor. A situation prone to inducing power-grabs and infighting in any autocracy, including the Agni Empire, without requiring their politics to typycally be violent, or, at least, as violent. Nor is it any indicator that the situation will easily bleed over onto visitors. Indeed, an international incident is generally not desirable when you don't have your sh*t together.
I expect the issue is how the leader is decided. If the founder was anything like the guy from canon, the criteria for succession are probably vague, possible involving traits like wisdom and intellect, as well as the more obvious and measurable requirements in the realm of magical prowess. It's almost certainly not something you inherit.
I think you guys (and Sidhe) are overestimating the amount of bloodshed in the politics here. Yes, it happens. But you'll note that the duels here aren't necessarily lethal, by Sidhe's phrasing. They just can be. Throwing lots of energy at one another typically carries at least some risk. Sidhe and Nanoha come from planes where that risk has been seriously reduced, but on most planes, demonstrating who has a better grasp on combat magic is not safe. Nor has it been established who had the last leader killed.
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- Location
- A Table Near You
Yeah, why that's I mentioned the Nanoha retainer incident. Jade's instinct was literally just to throw Blue mana at Nanoha's spell circle to disrupt it—that was a good of lead as any.
I suspect replicating it would have been as simple as drawing Jade's attention to that feeling, and having her throw Blue mana at a spell with intent to disrupt it. Hence why I thought it odd that the thread didn't follow up on it; maybe it was distracted by the drama in-story at the time, I dunno.
To be fair, we literally had Agneyastra introduce ourselves in negotiations as a goddess, and have just freed all the slaves in an entire city. Bit too late to fly under the radar, I think.
More than that, Agneyastra probably wants them to be wary of us. If we're dangerous, we make a less tempting target and more valuable ally both. Makes the whole 'goddess' thing a tiny bit more believable, too.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure the patients.
-[X] Offer to cure a few people while their Mages watch. If they can learn the techniques, they're welcome.
-[X] Disclaimer first, though - you're not very good at this, it's usually handled by specialists using different methods than you think you can teach.
-[X] Use both methods with know, in case they have better luck with one over the other.
-[X] Offer to cure a few people while their Mages watch. If they can learn the techniques, they're welcome.
-[X] Disclaimer first, though - you're not very good at this, it's usually handled by specialists using different methods than you think you can teach.
-[X] Use both methods with know, in case they have better luck with one over the other.
I like that they sent a countermagic specialist to greet a party of mages. It's sensible.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
I'm pretty sure we tried it, and our experimentation ended poorly. I suspect that the compression might be a factor that enables it, and maybe the use of a construct. It may be because it's mana given a more physical form, rather than just plain-ol' Blue. Not sure.
Being dangerous is not an unheard of trait in rulers around here. Nor is being able to smite people with natural disasters of biblical proportions. We'll need more than that to prove we're a goddess. Especially to magicians, who actively try to understand the phenomenon underlying the world around them, especially magic.To be fair, we literally had Agneyastra introduce ourselves in negotiations as a goddess, and have just freed all the slaves in an entire city. Bit too late to fly under the radar, I think.
More than that, Agneyastra probably wants them to be wary of us. If we're dangerous, we make a less tempting target and more valuable ally both. Makes the whole 'goddess' thing a tiny bit more believable, too.
...Actually, now that I consider it, the fact that at least some rulers of other countries can call down massive natural disasters is pretty good reason for them to be looking at prowess in combat magic as a factor in who gets to be in-charge. Means you have some extra peace of mind, and need to worry less about the other person using their powers to kill you.
It's certainly who I'd have doing the job. Magnostadt's probably quite good at figuring out what jobs to give what mages, based on their specialties.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I see no reason to give a disclaimer. Even if we really mess up somehow we can heal it.
It also gives a second reason (beyond political / safety) why he was spooked by magebane golems. They're kind of a counter to him personally in addition to Magnostadt in general.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Expressing uncertainty in our abilities has both advantages and disadvantages, depending on the kind of profile we want to have.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Why would be want to appear less competent then we are? Especially when they are going to hear about us proclaiming ourself a goddess soon.
- Location
- A Table Near You
It's also kind of cute, in a "aww, you think that would inconvenience Agneyastra in the slightest" kind of way.
Fair enough. The idea was to save face in case the first method doesn't work, but Jade's pretty confident it will, so there's not much point to it. Vote changed.
So, my thoughts:
1) At least some mages in Magnostadt seem to be unaware of full implications of their black enchantments. This is very important. While they are all rather racist against non-mages, the leap from "goi are contributing to our united success with power they aren't even using" to "we are slowly and potentially torturously sacrificing our citizens for power" is rather big, especially if non-mages can breed mages, and some of Magnostadt magical population has non-magical parents. Especially in cases of immigrants who bring their parents with them. This is something to politically exploit.
1.2) Cancer might be a plausible long-term effect of black enhancement, if what's sacrificed affects the body's ability to combat itself / keep itself in order. Given that cancer seems to be rather widespread around here, it is likely that something carcinogenic is in effect in the city.
2) The magic tradition seems to be quite divergent from the ones we observed before. Active enchantment sensing / viewing not seen as extraordinary, but seemingly no land bonding. Completely different scale for mana costs. Very limited, definitely not conceptual white healing - they are likely limited to boosting body's ability to regenerate.
[X] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure the patients.
-[X] Offer to cure a few people while their Mages watch. If they can learn the techniques, they're welcome.
--[X] If they can't learn it, offer to provide them with cancer-curing device on your later visit. Warn them that it might not happen for at least half a year.
-[X] Disclaimer first, though - you're not very good at this, it's usually handled by specialists using different methods than you think you can teach.
-[X] Use both methods with know, in case they have better luck with one over the other.
[X] Provide what you (Agneyastra) know about cancer, the usual statistics, carcinogenic factors, magical and not. If it is a prominent problem, than something is causing it around here - it should not be widespread otherwise. Give them advice on cancer prophylactic.
-[X] Ask for whatever statistics they have, in order to determine the root cause of high rate of cancer occurrence (if it is, indeed, a high rate)
Logic:
1) Goodwill is important. If we want to establish connections with them, ideally a joint magic research field, then we definitely should offer them TSAB tech.
2) If it is an ongoing problem, we should give them means to treat it long-term.
1) At least some mages in Magnostadt seem to be unaware of full implications of their black enchantments. This is very important. While they are all rather racist against non-mages, the leap from "goi are contributing to our united success with power they aren't even using" to "we are slowly and potentially torturously sacrificing our citizens for power" is rather big, especially if non-mages can breed mages, and some of Magnostadt magical population has non-magical parents. Especially in cases of immigrants who bring their parents with them. This is something to politically exploit.
1.2) Cancer might be a plausible long-term effect of black enhancement, if what's sacrificed affects the body's ability to combat itself / keep itself in order. Given that cancer seems to be rather widespread around here, it is likely that something carcinogenic is in effect in the city.
2) The magic tradition seems to be quite divergent from the ones we observed before. Active enchantment sensing / viewing not seen as extraordinary, but seemingly no land bonding. Completely different scale for mana costs. Very limited, definitely not conceptual white healing - they are likely limited to boosting body's ability to regenerate.
[X] Admit you can do so personally and agree to cure the patients.
-[X] Offer to cure a few people while their Mages watch. If they can learn the techniques, they're welcome.
--[X] If they can't learn it, offer to provide them with cancer-curing device on your later visit. Warn them that it might not happen for at least half a year.
-[X] Disclaimer first, though - you're not very good at this, it's usually handled by specialists using different methods than you think you can teach.
-[X] Use both methods with know, in case they have better luck with one over the other.
[X] Provide what you (Agneyastra) know about cancer, the usual statistics, carcinogenic factors, magical and not. If it is a prominent problem, than something is causing it around here - it should not be widespread otherwise. Give them advice on cancer prophylactic.
-[X] Ask for whatever statistics they have, in order to determine the root cause of high rate of cancer occurrence (if it is, indeed, a high rate)
Logic:
1) Goodwill is important. If we want to establish connections with them, ideally a joint magic research field, then we definitely should offer them TSAB tech.
2) If it is an ongoing problem, we should give them means to treat it long-term.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hm, I think Yog has a good point that the high cancer rate may be related to the citizenry's chronic low-level exposure to a black-mana spell that subtly drains their life energy.