Hold It In (RWBY/Transistor)

[Karugus]

This is true. On the other hand, a post human intellect playing therapist might have a chance. Especially if it can convince her that cooperating will help her die.

"The gods are dicks. Killing the world won't make them release you from your torment. Because you won't have admitted that they were totally right about everything. You'll just be stuck alone on a dead world. The way to break the curse is to understand that the god who cursed you was right when he refused to bring Ozma back. The twins are kind of assholes and it honestly feels like mankind is better off without them."

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This is just saying 'post human intellect' like its a magic word. The Process can barely grasp human motivations and psychology right now, I think it's barely been introduced to the idea of discrimination. Blue- the AI fork dedicated to human interaction explicitly falls pretty far from the marker of fully understanding humanity considering the trouble it had conceptualizing having parents. To say nothing that, besides Oz- we have literally no context for how a human mind reconciles living for millennia, to say nothing of witnessing the full on genocide of the human race. And this isn't even getting into the fact that being partially a creature of Grimm might very well affect someone's neurochemistry or fact that Grimm are fundamentally magical creatures that tap into the narrative of fairy tale and mythical monsters. Salem might be wrapped up into a magical narrative the Process has no insight into and is horrifically vulnerable to without a soul. Do you really want to expose the Process to Salem when Oz reflexively nearly junked the Transistor cause it got too close to his soul? That's how the Process gets horrifically violated and subverted into a monstrous weapon.

Obviously we can't just say 'its outright impossible'- but this line of thinking seems really indicative of technological wish fulfillment. So far, the way the story is set up- the Process is not the solution to our problems, it is the instrument by which we can implement our solutions. The Process can't create a post-scarcity society without someone making a roadmap and heuristics capable of understanding the complexity of human economics, psychological needs, industrial processes, politics and more. Likewise, the Process can't redeem Salem if we don't even know where to begin besides 'please stop trying to kill yourself' and just crossing our fingers Salem doesn't think to horrifically maim it because it has no soul protecting it. If we want to be treating the Process as a solution in and of itself, we ought to be in no mans land leveraging all of the Process to wage a systematic extermination of the Grimm all by ourselves- and that's problematic at best.

 

[Aunty Shi Ping]

I imagine that, if one possessed the impossible means to do so, Salem could still be rehabilitated by suppressing the desire for death. Even if she were left with almost nothing, it would be a chance to develop in new ways and the deathwish could be restored slowly with her having a new perspective upon what she actually wants to do about it and whether she wants to keep trying new things. Or try the quick and dirty route of suppressing it and then asking her how she wants her mind edited. There are certainly ethical cincerns, and even that might not be sufficient, but I like to think that there are always alternatives. That said, the ability to reconfigure Salem's mind is not exactly plausible within the immediate future, so it is a moot point...

 

[GunnarS14]

I mean, it's like Prok said:
"She is so devoted to this idea that she needs to die and her passing should take humanity with it that it's not a bad assumption to say there's precious little her left unconsumed by it."

Then she solution is simple: dont rehabilitate her, re-target her.

She wants to murder-suicide so bad? Fine, instead of murdering humanity shift her target to murdering the Gods. I'm not saying it'll be easy, but it's far more possible than actually helping her. Make her central to some plan of diecide, say taking advantage of a sympathetic connection between her and the Gods, and there ya go.

Now, I'm not saying we should do this, or that it's even possible in this quest. I'm just saying if someone reaaaaally wanted to somehow get Salem to work with them, that's how I would go about it.

 

[PsyFarrow]

There's a stunning amount of people who think that the Gods who literally created the world and destroyed is just as easily are even remotely killable. The Brothers did their absolute best to kill each other for who even knows how long, and nothing humanity has now or even at the height of Process tech remotely approaches them. It just isn't happening.

 

[Tassadar]

There's a stunning amount of people who think that the Gods who literally created the world and destroyed is just as easily are even remotely killable. The Brothers did their absolute best to kill each other for who even knows how long, and nothing humanity has now or even at the height of Process tech remotely approaches them. It just isn't happening.

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No, it very possible.

The Process is not limited to tech here, it can understand magic and the soul given time. With even more time, it likely can understand what forces the Brother use themselves.
(This is all post-quest things those.)

 

[GunnarS14]

There's a stunning amount of people who think that the Gods who literally created the world and destroyed is just as easily are even remotely killable.

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That's part of why I said "if it's even possible in this quest." Maybe the Process could, given time and the ability to study/understand magic. Maybe. I don't really want to find out either way, its not worth it imo.

Now, if this Jaune was Kill Six Billion Demons Jaune or Gurren Lagann Jaune it would be a definite yes. I am less sure on the KSBD because I don't know that series very well, but from what I do know it seems plausible. Gurenn Lagann though it would just be a question of when and how many people working together, not if. Sprial Power OP.

 

[BlackCoat13]

Jaune doesn't even know about the Gods yet because Oz left that little bit out. (He's saving it for the next time he wants to give Jaune an instant-coma-in-a-can.)

We probably aren't going to rehabilitate Salem. It'd be easier to Digitize her and turn her into a quarantined save file on a data storage in a Process Bunker on the bottom of the Ocean, forever having her code restoring herself to prime condition but not really able to do anything about her situation. Or you know, destroying or otherwise rendering one of the Relics completely beyond reach, like throwing the Sword of Destruction past orbit through Process anti-gravity slingshot hacks.

---

So, Jaune is going to the hospital wing (Dammit, not Hogwarts, despite the aloof wise old Wizard and strict disciplinarian deputy Head-Mistress Witch) Nurse's Office after meeting with Ozpin? After he was all concerned and 'Ozpin probably won't kill me' in front of his Teammates?

Is Oz going to have to make sure Ada, Creme, and Lumen don't try to kill him in revenge before we wake up? Because uh, in order that's:
-1. The Headmaster gave the Transistor a virus that nearly melted my brains
-2. The headmaster launched me off a cliff while I was dying of a virus melting my external hardware brain and my fleshy meatware one
-3. The Headmaster and the Faculty didn't try to recover Jaune from the test, even if they did give a 'No you're totally on your own' disclaimer
-4. "He totally won't silence me, I hope, because there are witnesses," Jaune, trying to be convincing the night before vanishing not coming back that night to the dorm room
-5. and then in the morning Goodwitch is there with"'I regret to inform you that your Team Leader cannot make it to classes with you today due to being in the Nurse's office for a brain aneurysm"

he can't keep getting away with this Ozpin is looking pretty fucking susp' here, is all I'm saying.

Speaking of Roman, and this is probably a stupid question, what fairy tale character is he based off?

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(From the RWBY Wiki)
Roman alludes to Romeo Candlewick from the story of Pinocchio. For more information on this allusion, as well as other choices the creators made for this character, see Roman Torchwick/Behind the Scenes.

 

[SaltyWaffles]

Salem's problem is that given the nature of her curse, the Brothers would absolutely leave her alive even after incinerating the rest of humanity. The cruelty of what they did was the point.

And given what task they set him, I'm pretty sure they were cursing Ozma too for having been the cause of this annoyance. He's also meant to fail eternally for having inadvertently set Salem on her initial mission to oppose the Brothers.

The only actual hope of Remnant is that they figure out a method of deicide that works on the Brothers before either Salem or Ozma can summon them back. Otherwise, they just do the whole thing over and probably attach new conditions to it, assuming they don't leave Salem as the last lone human on an otherwise lifeless rock.

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Not really? The Process can, once it grows powerful/wise/incorruptible enough, defeat and imprison Salem and the Grimm in perpetuity, all on its own.

Hell, the Process might even figure out how to just destroy Salem's soul outright with magic, one day.

Ultimately, once the Process has grown enough, Salem's ability to threaten anyone becomes extremely diminished. The Grimm would be eternally contained and purged as needed, and Salem herself prevented from threatening anyone through continual, eternally vigilant, and overwhelming brute force.

 

[Walliseatscheese]

Now, if this Jaune was Kill Six Billion Demons Jaune or Gurren Lagann Jaune it would be a definite yes. I am less sure on the KSBD because I don't know that series very well, but from what I do know it seems plausible. Gurenn Lagann though it would just be a question of when and how many people working together, not if. Sprial Power OP.

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The Brothers might already be dead in K6BD.

There are no living Gods in that setting afaik.

 

[Great Greedy Guts]

Salem's problem is that given the nature of her curse, the Brothers would absolutely leave her alive even after incinerating the rest of humanity. The cruelty of what they did was the point.

And given what task they set him, I'm pretty sure they were cursing Ozma too for having been the cause of this annoyance. He's also meant to fail eternally for having inadvertently set Salem on her initial mission to oppose the Brothers.

The only actual hope of Remnant is that they figure out a method of deicide that works on the Brothers before either Salem or Ozma can summon them back. Otherwise, they just do the whole thing over and probably attach new conditions to it, assuming they don't leave Salem as the last lone human on an otherwise lifeless rock.

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Honestly, I'm half-convinced that bringing Oz back was part of Salem's curse. Like, the gods clearly got involved in Remnant again after they "left". The God of Light, at the very least, but maybe both of them. After all, humanity spontaneously evolving almost identically, Faunus creation myths describing figures that look a lot like the two gods, the silver eyes containing the power they do... that's a lot of coincidences. And, heck, the GoL pretty much primes Oz to see Salem as unreasonable so that he doesn't even try talking her down when she starts talking about replacing humanity. He says a lot of things that don't sound entirely accurate at that point, but are close enough to make sure they become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Then he sets a task that's pretty much "Remember that thing we didn't do? Do that."

Which leads to them having kids, those kids dying, him dying, and Salem going from "scary witch in the woods" to "locked in eternal combat with the ex she was cursed trying to bring back". That all sucks a lot for Oz, sure, but it also all but guarantees that Salem won't be able to process things and come to any kind of peace.

Even ignoring the part where the GoD killed everyone in the world, the brothers are pretty damn abusive pseudo-parents. And I think Jaune will recognize that if/when he hears the story, because he honestly values the Process a lot more than the gods seem to value their creations.

And he's willing to bring them back if they die, lol. Finding out the afterlife is real and has the collected memories/souls/whatever it is that allowed the GoL to bring Oz back is going to be a fucking trip.

 

[ADeshantis]

Hey, did we ever find out what that 15 day timer back before our date with Weiss was about? Or has it not been 15 days yet?

Edit: ALSO DID WE TELL ANYONE ABOUT THE METRIC ASSTON OF SUBTERRANEAN GRIMM?

 

[SaltyWaffles]

Hey, did we ever find out what that 15 day timer back before our date with Weiss was about? Or has it not been 15 days yet?

Edit: ALSO DID WE TELL ANYONE ABOUT THE METRIC ASSTON OF SUBTERRANEAN GRIMM?

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Can you quote the relevant portions? I don't remember either of those things.

 

[GunnarS14]

Hey, did we ever find out what that 15 day timer back before our date with Weiss was about? Or has it not been 15 days yet?

Edit: ALSO DID WE TELL ANYONE ABOUT THE METRIC ASSTON OF SUBTERRANEAN GRIMM?

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I don't remember the timer, but the Grimm below Vale is one of the things we are going to tell Ozpin about. Just taking care of learning about Magic/Salem and becoming part of the Ozluminati first.

 

[Menthewarp]

So... how does all of this big-picture-data-sharing impact our plan to kill Remnant's version of Genoscythe The Eyeraper while keeping Ada both alive and emotionally stable?

Also, how do we utilize our new partnership with OG Florida Man to increase the odds of successfully dating Miss Ice Cream In A-Cup in a way that saves Jaune from tripping over his emotional shoelaces?

Also, do either Little Sister Doe-Tail or Best Bro Lux-For-Brains even have any life issues that The Great And Nerdy Oz could pull strings for us to help make things generically better?

I forgot every single character's name except for Ada, Jaune, and Ozpin, please enjoy my silliness.

 

[Walliseatscheese]

So... how does all of this big-picture-data-sharing impact our plan to kill Remnant's version of Genoscythe The Eyeraper while keeping Ada both alive and emotionally stable?

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Likely access to official reports to give us a better context on how he operates and specifics about how his Flesh warping affects his durability. Beyond that we'll be able to emphasize that this (Serial Murderer Coming To Vale and Beacon) is an issue for the Administration to be concerned about, no seriously.

Also, how do we utilize our new partnership with OG Florida Man to increase the odds of successfully dating Miss Ice Cream In A-Cup in a way that saves Jaune from tripping over his emotional shoelaces?

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We'll get Intel on Blake and demonstrate that we're still here and actively seeking to protect her (which is normally an eh thing for a romantic partner, except the whole Assassination attempt and her seeking comfort with us during the sleep over section makes it something Weiss will appreciate).

Also, Ozpin's help with developing the Dust Business and the Process Business(es) will make us Rich As Hell which paves the way to us being a socially acceptable romantic partner for Weiss as seen by general High Society.

Also, do either Little Sister Doe-Tail or Best Bro Lux-For-Brains even have any life issues that The Great And Nerdy Oz could pull strings for us to help make things generically better?

I forgot every single character's name except for Ada, Jaune, and Ozpin, please enjoy my silliness.

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Hypothetically he can put us/the White Fang Bro in contact with a Counselor to help pull him out of the radical sounding room that seems to be his entrance into terrorism.

Rebasing our Bro's family in Vale and setting his sister up with a Better Job (either as Process Industries or from the Ozpin side of things) would give them some distance from the more rural/suburban family base and provide better financial security for them.

 

[Menthewarp]

[REDACTED]

 

[infinityDivided]

it could genuinely create biocrystalline Entity flesh from first principles...!

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Pfft, slow down there. That's going to be a while off.

 

[GunnarS14]

oh god, I know we already refer to The Process as a baby god, but with this dudes Semblance, it could genuinely create biocrystalline Entity flesh from first principles...!

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I give you a laugh, because that is the closest thing SV has to a scream.

But seriously, while maybe possible it's probably not worth the risk to get to that point. Way safer just to kill him, that's already gonna be hard enough.

 

[ADeshantis]

*War crime noises*

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HOLY FUCKING SHIT MAN HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE WORD "ETHICS"? This is so many flavors of NOT OK I'm not even sure you're being serious by suggesting the slow, unending torture of a living human just to learn how they work more quickly.

If we do this shit then Ironwood should have put a bullet through our heart when he had the fucking chance.

 

[Aunty Shi Ping]

*War crime noises*

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The risk of his mind/soul being incorporated into The Process and gaining a controlling interest is far too high to even remotely consider such a thing. Like, if we had mind-uploads down to a working model, then we could try it out, but even with `volunteers` who wouldn't be automatically discarded due to their demonstrated interpersonal inclinations we still couldn't do the research because there is the risk of them being driven mad by the process.

... Maybe we could offer our weaponry teacher a new suit of armour?

 

[ADeshantis]

I'm pretty sure that'd be rude: it sounds like a middle ground between insulting a Huntsman's weapon and calling someone fat. So, y'know, pretty insulting. The man can make his own armor, if that shit isn't perfectly tailored to his needs by now I'll be shocked.

 

[GunnarS14]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT MAN HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE WORD "ETHICS"? This is so many flavors of NOT OK I'm not even sure you're being serious by suggesting the slow, unending torture of a living human just to learn how they work more quickly.

If we do this shit then Ironwood should have put a bullet through our heart when he had the fucking chance.

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Oh I agree 100%, but if someone is suggesting something like that I assume they think morally they are in the right. So rather than try to convince them otherwise on something more subjective (good vs evil), if possible it's easier to convince them against it on more objective matters, such as what's practical. Because then morality doesn't matter, if we never have to make the decision in the first place.

 

[CaesriusPolybius]

If we do this shit then Ironwood should have put a bullet through our heart when he had the fucking chance.

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Oh please, Herr "I'll sacrifice whatever it takes" would probably approve.

Which isn't to say you're wrong in your actual point, what the fuck that was horrifying to read. And also very much *not* the sort of behavior we should be teaching the Process...

 

[ADeshantis]

Oh please, Herr "I'll sacrifice whatever it takes" would probably approve.

Which isn't to say you're wrong in your actual point, what the fuck that was horrifying to read. And also very much *not* the sort of behavior we should be teaching the Process...

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No, Ironwood would do it himself. If someone else did it, he'd view them (rightly) as an uncontrollable, unstable actor with far too much personal power, and then murder them.

See: his attempted murder of Oscar for the crime of being approximately 43% Ozpin.

Jimmy's real Semblance is hypocrisy and we all know it. It's not his fault. They had to hand the Villain Ball off to somebody for the Atlas episodes and "GUBMENT BAD" always sells well with American audiences.

 

[Prok]

Not responding to everything just now- that would ruin the fun.

The Brothers might already be dead in K6BD.

There are no living Gods in that setting afaik.

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Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper dead. The 388,889th black God, split in twain to maintain balance, nonetheless chose self-annihilation alongside the multitude to create the Wheel. Remnant should have been a success story- proof that YIS and UN could be reunited through their greyest child.

Unfortunately, K6BD is a showcase of the same kind of hubris you expect of Greek tragedies- whatever reflection formed on Remnant of these half-gods forgot what they were in totality- that they were merely the halves of a greater, deader whole, dreaming up a world with divine essence.

More importantly, they forgot that when you split a god in half, the result is something dangerously close to mortal.

Humanity, to this day, pays for their hubris as much as they pay for Salem's, and the story is what drew Meti to it in the first place- out of curiosity as to how a god with two heads could show themselves to be more idiotic than the gods with none at all.

Hey, did we ever find out what that 15 day timer back before our date with Weiss was about? Or has it not been 15 days yet?

Edit: ALSO DID WE TELL ANYONE ABOUT THE METRIC ASSTON OF SUBTERRANEAN GRIMM?

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It has not been 15 days yet, no- next Friday, in quest-time, is when the counter should reach zero.

Also no, no you have not.

Can you quote the relevant portions? I don't remember either of those things.

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{Any luck?}

I got something out of it- a timer. 1,287,308 seconds and counting down.

{Just under 15 days. Until what?}

Hopefully, until we can tell Jaune. I can't see anything obviously dangerous- I think it's just locked us out until the timer runs out.

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Process presence in City of Vale bedrock has reached 400km² in area, covering the Port District and large parts of the Commercial and Industrial Districts.

• The bedrock under Vale is infested with large, subterranean Grimm that are unlike anything on record, in numbers that would be considered concerning if they could actually sense humans from that deep underground. Currently, we have not engaged with them out of concern that we may draw the ire of the horde- instead, we have simply replaced their nests and tunnels with Processed matter. Due to the higher priority of exterminating Grimm, expansion was halted until the full network was uncovered, and continued as scheduled roughly 18 hours ago. We have found the entirety of the nest network- though due to its relative size, we believe it is only one of several.

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Relevant quotes- in short, the Transistor has a *~mystery file~*, and Vale's bedrock was pre-hollowed by a metric asston of subterranean Grimm.

No, Ironwood would do it himself. If someone else did it, he'd view them (rightly) as an uncontrollable, unstable actor with far too much personal power, and then murder them.

See: his attempted murder of Oscar for the crime of being approximately 43% Ozpin.

Jimmy's real Semblance is hypocrisy and we all know it. It's not his fault. They had to hand the Villain Ball off to somebody for the Atlas episodes and "GUBMENT BAD" always sells well with American audiences.

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I won't say much, but I will say that I have not very high opinions on Ironwood's Semblance, and while I'm not changing the core of it because that's not how I do things around here, things around it will be changing hard to try and make it, not as "break this glass in case of demand for new antagonist" as it currently is.