Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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Omake Writer Instructions:

There are four fields you need to fill out.

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Sounds like the answer is to max Pillar it up, ensuring absolute unbeatable power within a realm. They'd have to break their own rules to beat that
 
Sounds like the answer is to max Pillar it up, ensuring absolute unbeatable power within a realm
I don't think so. Based on what I read it seems their 1st step is equal to our 5th step ones and this continues all the way to the top. Which means that nothing we do really helps as a 9th step for us is around a 4th step for them.
 
I don't think so. Based on what I read it seems their 1st step is equal to our 5th step ones and this continues all the way to the top. Which means that nothing we do really helps as a 9th step for us is around a 4th step for them.
Keep in mind that the differences between levels only increases the higher you get
 
Obviously we should try to capture one of their Qi condensers, and see what exactly makes them so strong.

Apart from the obvious 'they're from a place with way more Qi, duh' answer anyway.
 
Interesting thing is that Eight-Pillars strikes at Early Core Formation even without other stuff. Nine-Pillars might strike at Mid. With 13th Heavenstage, that's Late Core Formation battlepower. With an extensively boosted combat-style or bloodline, you could hit Great Circle Core Formation Combat power while in Foundation Establishment.

Imagine the Core Formation Tribulation that'd try to strike such a person down... It'd be False Nascent Soul level at least. Other Sects might wonder if the Golden Devils would be getting a new Nascent Soul.
 
I have always thought that secret realm cultivators might have been the answer to the tribulation trials but it seems so expensive.
 
I don't think so. Based on what I read it seems their 1st step is equal to our 5th step ones and this continues all the way to the top. Which means that nothing we do really helps as a 9th step for us is around a 4th step for them.
Interesting thing is that Eight-Pillars strikes at Early Core Formation even without other stuff. Nine-Pillars might strike at Mid. With 13th Heavenstage, that's Late Core Formation battlepower. With an extensively boosted combat-style or bloodline, you could hit Great Circle Core Formation Combat power while in Foundation Establishment.

Imagine the Core Formation Tribulation that'd try to strike such a person down... It'd be False Nascent Soul level at least. Other Sects might wonder if the Golden Devils would be getting a new Nascent Soul.
Where are you two taking this from? I don't follow the logic for these numbers.

(I'm probably missing earlier information)

Mechanically, take it as a Cool Thing bonus, and it can be spread to cultivators in the 1st and 2nd Heavenstage. To upgrade it, right now it's more Cool Things (or a good Fate roll). I really need to think about this more, to be honest. Given pre-Foundation Establishment cultivators make virtually no difference to the Clan's fortunes individually, I haven't thought about 'how can characters assist the Clan in terms of actual underlying mechanics', but I'll be giving it some thought over coming turns to create something that makes sense - or at least works.
Awesome! I'll plan to do that on turn 5 then.
 
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Obviously we should try to capture one of their Qi condensers, and see what exactly makes them so strong.

Apart from the obvious 'they're from a place with way more Qi, duh' answer anyway.
I mean, the Ninth Princes background says the 5th Sea is a constant warground, and we know that some Sects are stronger in combat simply due to constantly fighting. Case in point, if we were based in the mountains, we'd have a bonus to cultivator strength. So the answer may simply be "they fight a whole lot more".
I have always thought that secret realm cultivators might have been the answer to the tribulation trials but it seems so expensive.
I think it was mentioned somewhere that they also had a use for Golden Devil bodies? Also, we have no idea of their numbers, they might only be sending a fraction of their clan.

Which, of course, brings up the possibility for why they're stronger is because they're sending over their equivalent of good seeds over.
 
A note. I've done a first draft of cultivator strength/speeds and a more generic spreadsheet of info here.

It is only a first draft, and as such is open to discussion, questions, and 'does this make sense, maybe x strength or y speed would be better', but I thought getting it done as a worldbuilding resource might be handy for omake writers.

edit: Into my second draft, adding stamina/Qi storage. Use this as a very rough guide at best. Nothing here is final, and I'm likely to play around with the numbers significantly and for weeks before I'm close to happy with this.
Where are you two taking this from? I don't follow the logic for these numbers.

(I'm probably missing earlier information)
No worries, it was a while back. From this spreadsheet, you can observe that the strength of Eight-Pillars is slightly higher than that of Early Core Formation at base. From there, we can extrapolate that Nine-Pillars/Emperor's Pillars strikes at Mid Core Formation.

13th Heavenstage allows you to strike two small Realms forward in Foundation Establishment, but only one small realm forward while in Core Formation. Make no mistake, due to the widening gap between realms, the second is still a larger boost.

Also, we know that refined enough techniques can allow you to strike above your realm. Same goes for bloodline abilities. It'd take a solid amount of work to make it worth a stage in Core Formation, but we also have some great writers here. (Like you!)
 
Random theorizing:

The single pillar path from the 13th Qi Heavenstage is actually the Emperor's Pillar.

The 8 Pillars are the 8-fold path of the heavens, that's why it grants a massive luck bonus.

So to reach the secret 9-pillars, it would be:

1 Emperor's Pillar (made during 13th Qi Heavenstage)
8-fold Pillars (The Normal Foundation Establishment Pillars)

Basically, normal Foundation Establishment Cultivators can't hit the 9th Pillars, it's impossible - They didn't hit 13th Qi Heavenstage.

If I were to guess, a 9 Pillars Foundation establishment cultivator would strike at mid Core Formation, not Late Core Formation. Someone with 9 Pillars who broke through would strike at Great Circle Core Formation, and if they hit Great Circle of Core Formation, would strike at Early/Mid Nascent Soul.
 
Random theorizing:

The single pillar path from the 13th Qi Heavenstage is actually the Emperor's Pillar.

The 8 Pillars are the 8-fold path of the heavens, that's why it grants a massive luck bonus.

So to reach the secret 9-pillars, it would be:

1 Emperor's Pillar (made during 13th Qi Heavenstage)
8-fold Pillars (The Normal Foundation Establishment Pillars)

Basically, normal Foundation Establishment Cultivators can't hit the 9th Pillars, it's impossible - They didn't hit 13th Qi Heavenstage.

If I were to guess, a 9 Pillars Foundation establishment cultivator would strike at mid Core Formation, not Late Core Formation. Someone with 9 Pillars who broke through would strike at Great Circle Core Formation, and if they hit Great Circle of Core Formation, would strike at Early/Mid Nascent Soul.
Oh, that actually makes quite a lot of sense. I like this theory.
 
I think it was mentioned somewhere that they also had a use for Golden Devil bodies? Also, we have no idea of their numbers, they might only be sending a fraction of their clan.

Which, of course, brings up the possibility for why they're stronger is because they're sending over their equivalent of good seeds over.
If we're being treated as a Hidden Realm loot pinata then almost certainly everyone coming would be geared up and doped up on all the performance enhancers AND generally speaking be people who picked the fight.

People don't tend to pick fights they're unlikely to win, so we might well be looking at their top 5% for every cultivation category attacking us at every quality % of ours and spawning in arbitrarily with no consequences on failure.
Even if they were equal in every respect they'd be expected to win most of the time.
 
Daedalus Khimaira 1 - Black Shadows
Black Shadows
A Daedalus Khimaira Omake​

Daedalus Khimaira knew that someone, somewhere, in a golden palace watching him, must be laughing at his exhausted form. Last month, training in the Legions was not what he expected himself to be a part of. With the trials approaching however, the clan as a whole moved to prepare. This meant that some members of the Golden Devil Clan were told to join the Legion by their peers. Not Daedalus though, his reason to be ground down for the past week in physical training was a lot simpler. He wanted to open his own pie shop! The money he could stably gain from being a member of the Legions would go quite a ways into that dream, after a short nap though.

Daedalus embraced the quiet bed. Rubble can be very soft, surprisingly.

"Someone must have pulled some strings to get you a place in the X Black Shadows." a thousand bells interrupted Daedalus's quiet bed. Groaning, Daedalus looked up from the training ground to see trainer Rhines with a hand outstretched to Daedalus. Thinking of the money to earn, Daedalus held the desire to fight the person who interrupted his nap. Rhines's outstretched arm proceeded to pull up Daedalus.

"I just want to sleep" moaned Daedalus.

"I can see that. If I wasn't a trainer of the X Black Shadows you might be left alone to sleep out here for the night. As the trainer of the X Black Shadows it is my job to know the weaknesses and strengths of our members. You are unusually weaker than most people right now usually are. When breaking recruits down it doesn't normally take from dawn to dusk for a recruit to tire. Much less a full week before the recruit cannot handle the physical training anymore."

Trainer Rhines was being unusually talkative today. If Daedalus wasn't so tired, he'd walk away. Instead, he tried to stay standing in front of trainer Rhines, who would not stop talking.

"Someone really is looking out for you though. The Black Shadow cohorts of the Legions is, in some ways, the safest armies of the Legions. We train demonic tunists to aid in battle formations with the other cohorts of the Legions. This means that our members need to have an extensive knowledge of battle formations, tunes, and instruments. Physical training isn't nearly as necessary for a demonic tunist as it is for our other troops. Still need to train our recruits not to slow the Legions down in a retreat, and to put up a fight if surrounded." Rhines finished the lecture with a cold smile.

"I'm going to tell you a little secret, the Black Shadows are required by clan law not to have a single recruit drop out of our four year training course. All recruits must either join our group, or be transferred elsewhere if they have something concerning."

Rhines reached behind himself to pull out a drum, before continuing to talk.

"We are aids to the Legions, not the commanders. There are exceptions, such as border patrol, but that's rare. Effective use of our techniques in such a large area would require more of us to play constantly at all times. Highly effective, but an intruder can always go around, straight through if they're strong enough, or have a road outlined by heaven for them. The clan has tried outright blocking the Trials with demonic tunists before."

Daedalus didn't know that. He had assumed the clan was too proud to rely on anything except battle formations, the Legions, and arrays. Otherwise he should have heard something about poison masters among cohorts of the legions, or a whole army of animals fighting for the clan.

"That was in better times when the bloodline of the clan was purer, and we had about fifty nascent soul masters."

Rhines banged his drum taking Daedalus's mind elsewhere.

People stood in a room overlooking a map array of a mountain range. Dressed in purple robes, with the only other remarkable thing about them being their green hair, and expressions. Faces that looked as if they had walked into a fight with death while naked without a weapon. The people nodded together.

"The plan as recorded was simple, make the invaders attack each other. It should have worked, and it mostly had."

A lone person, dressed in the clothes of a sword cultivator. Wandered a mountain valley in search of something. Something the lone swordsman appeared unable to find. Daedalus followed the journey of the lone swordsman across the mountains into a valley with bronze statues. The sword cultivator became excited, his mouth made no sound, but an expression of intense longing that made Daedalus uncomfortable appeared on his face. Daedalus became even more uncomfortable when the sword cultivator took his sword out, but the qi aura on the sword turned the sword into a pickaxe.

The lone swordsman attacked the bronze statues. A bronze statue with incredibly black eyes, from the back of the bronze statue valley, rushed over to the lone swordsman. With one punch, the lone swordsman died. That one bronze statue with black eyes became attacked by another bronze statue. Soon, the whole valley transformed into an arena of bronze flying around until none remained standing. Just when Daedalus thought the fight was over, like a desert mirage seen from a different vantage point, the bronze statues became corpses of oddly dressed cultivators in horrible pieces. Some were charred, some had been frozen solid. None were breathing anymore


"The record written was that while the clan did eliminate many invaders, losing only a few members of the clan. The few hundred surviving raiders became heaven's chosen. Come the next trial, and those chosen became completely immune to all forms of demonic tunes."

Where they walked, light followed. Moving furnaces of unstoppable human figures moved mountains with a mere arm movement. The figures killed nobody where they walked only damaging the lands they went through at ridiculous speeds. A purple robed, green haired person, from the first vision, threw a punch at one of the figures. The punch went through the figure of light as if they were a ghost. The figure of light continued to alter the land as if the purple robed person were a creature so far beneath the attention of the light furnace, no words were needed to explain the actions of the stars.

"Worse, they were somehow enslaved by heaven. What had been a trial, turned into annihilation as the raiders wrecked our resources instead of the clan. Fields became infertile. Arrays were heavenly changed to poison the air, walls visibly aged into dust. If not for the nature of the clan we would have devolved into infighting over limited resources, as it was we lost our potential from the rage of the heaven's. After that, a strict rule was put in place, no large cohorts of demonic tunists for the trials."

Standing at attention with his eyes shut, Daedalus had no response for Rhines.

"Hey, you awake?" Rhines clapped his hands near Daedalus's ear. Getting no response from clapping in front of Daedalus's ear. Rhines crouched low to place his palm on the ground of the training field. Lines of a array lit up from a qi infusion, changing the field from a flat plain under the night sky into a warm mattress of pillows. Standing up with a smile on his face, Rhines hummed with every step taken from Daedalus's now fallen form from it's upright position.

Daedalus woke with the sun on his back, and a foreboding feeling. The feeling only grew worse at the sight of familiar pillows, with familiar names upon them, specifically Daedalus's name in the characters native to the Golden Devils.

"Dungfowl? Not again."

One of the unique creatures of the desert are the dungfowl, a bird notorious for it's annoying habit of collecting dung while having a unhealthy obsession with fire. The feathers of the dungfowl were incredibly warm, which would make them useful for mortals if not for the stench that had been declared impossible to remove.

Daedalus hoped he would reach the baths to remove some of the stench before training began. With every slow step to the baths accompanied by pain, Daedalus anticipated a long morning ahead.

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Map arrays are useful things. After the ridiculous number of mathematical equations performed on the terrain. Finding the power source for the array. Refining the array so it would not immediately drain the power source in seconds. Map arrays are useful things, but a pain to implement.

With the commander of the Black Shadows, and the battle formation master for the Black Shadows, trainer Rhines observed Daedalus's path to the nearest bathhouse in the training grounds, counting the time until Daedalus entered.

"He heals under sunlight, becomes weaker without it." Darius, the Black Shadow commander confirmed.

"Rhines has been running the lad hard for the last six days. The journey to the baths took less time than it did yesterday. Normal bodies cannot take that level of abuse." commented the battle formation master for the Black Shadows.

"A bloodline seems likely, but I asked you here for a question. Should we work on improving his physical abilities or transfer him out to a different cohort? His strength seems to lie in the body instead of a profession. With the Trials approaching our demonic tunes will be more helpful to allow the Legions to train while we take their chores on." asked Rhines.

"Raise all the recruits physical abilities up, have them train in battle formations, extend the training time to twelve years. With the last four years of those twelve devoted to demonic tunes.. Just because we are on the backline during the trials is no reason we cannot aid our people as a last line of defense during them." commanded Darius.

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Note: I'm not very good at writing. I imagine that Daedalus's sun bloodline would be extremely obvious to figure out, but it is possible that if you don't fight, the bloodline could go unnoticed for years. I hope you don't mind my taking some liberties with demonic tunists. They really would be helpful for the clan, but some reason to not mention they exist in large groups for the clan is the direction I'm going with this. Demonic Tunes would easily go against that rule of only those of the same cultivation level fight each other, as a tune can be heard by many. A demonic tune that caused untold havoc to the invaders during a Trial, to the point that the heaven's had to intercede personally on the punishment should be enough of a reason for the clan to choose not to use them for the trials, which would in turn reduce the favorability of demonic tunes among the clan. I can see individual demonic tunists being fine, but a whole group of demonic tunists working together to mess with the Trial should have had incredibly good results at least once. Just no more than that once.

Omake Bonus: Cultivation Boost
 
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I also thought about maybe constant redoing of the Core Formation realm might be another secret path but TBH it seems overkill:

1. Get to Core Formation
2. Disperse down to Qi Condensation
3. Repeat
4. When you breakthrough to Nascent Soul you have extra souls equal to the number of times you did this process.

So I'm a lot less confident about this. Of course with Core Formation-level resources, zooming through Qi Condensation and Foundation Establishment over and over again might not be impossible, but man. Even if you skipped Trbulation rolls due to having done them before, man, redoing your cultivation repeatedly? Ow.

e: Actually it might be:

1. Get to Core Formation
1a. Split Core
2. Disperse your true core down to Qi Condensation
3. Repeat
4. When you breakthrough to Nascent Soul you have extra false souls souls equal to the number of times you did this process.

Which would be slightly easier to stomach. Slightly. You get to fight at least with the power of a False Core Formation Expert at least.
 
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@occipitallobe is that pillar used by the fifth sea an artifact of our clan's grand past? I only ask because the nature of it seems uncannily useful for an expanding power like we were before the Fall.

1) it allows for rapid transit of information between seas
2) It allows for individuals to teleport back to what was always our bastion point and back to the pillar
3) this would allow for more effective governance or command of our legions across seas
4) its made of metal and we are all about metal

No, it's a Fifth Sea thing. As a rule, Chinese/Indian/other heritage is non-Clan.

I haven't got any notes on the other Nine Seas (beyond a few sentences on power levels), but I've considered making every Sea draw from a different part of human cuture - the Third Sea is Chinese, the Fifth Sea is Indian. I've considered adding Egyptian/Middle Eastern, Western European, Eastern European, sub-Saharan African, a mixture of South/North Native American (with some Australian Aboriginal stuff there as well to satisfy my own interests), South-East Asian, and maybe Polynesian (though I think they'd serve better as 'barbarians' who live on the islands around a Turtle Continent, given the seafaring nature of Polynesian mythology).

Greek/Byzantine/Roman is Clan, though. It's a naming schema and language from completely outside the Turtle World.

I highly agree with this! Right now if the rolls go well we should have my Poison Arrow formation, @BungieONI 's Oasis Formation and @LordEdric 's puppet bombers.

More stuff to allow our Clan to fight against those of their realm will help dramatically since as it is our cultivators are outclassed by theirs

Nice! I think it's great that our Cultivators are essentially sacrificing their own time and effort for the Clan to benefit, it basically shows the Good Seed embracing the need to put in their all for the clan.

EDIT: @occipitallobe quick question, is the Clan status going to be update solely on the wiki or will the information page here be updated throughout as well ? If it's the later, could you add my formation to the page ?

I can probably do it on the wiki when i have the time

On the post - probably better to just link to it in the wiki. I do need to update it, though.

Obviously we should try to capture one of their Qi condensers, and see what exactly makes them so strong.

Apart from the obvious 'they're from a place with way more Qi, duh' answer anyway.

Part of it is selection effects. Killing Golden Devils grants pure Heavenly Luck, which is incredibly difficult to seize by other means. For a cultivator who needs to constantly put themselves in dangerous situations to advance, '50/50 shots usually go your way' is a tremendous boost. As such, getting into the 100-Year Trials is a fairly competitive process. When the Fifth Sea send people, they're sending their best.
 
Part of it is selection effects. Killing Golden Devils grants pure Heavenly Luck, which is incredibly difficult to seize by other means. For a cultivator who needs to constantly put themselves in dangerous situations to advance, '50/50 shots usually go your way' is a tremendous boost. As such, getting into the 100-Year Trials is a fairly competitive process. When the Fifth Sea send people, they're sending their best.
How would you compare killing a Golden Devil to the luck boost given by Eight Pillars, btw? Or does it scale by the level of said Golden Devil?

(If so, that Core Formation cultivator who used an item to kill Alexios hit a real windfall, though I'm sure Manuel hopes they choke on it.)
 
Random theorizing:

The single pillar path from the 13th Qi Heavenstage is actually the Emperor's Pillar.

The 8 Pillars are the 8-fold path of the heavens, that's why it grants a massive luck bonus.

So to reach the secret 9-pillars, it would be:

1 Emperor's Pillar (made during 13th Qi Heavenstage)
8-fold Pillars (The Normal Foundation Establishment Pillars)

Basically, normal Foundation Establishment Cultivators can't hit the 9th Pillars, it's impossible - They didn't hit 13th Qi Heavenstage.

If I were to guess, a 9 Pillars Foundation establishment cultivator would strike at mid Core Formation, not Late Core Formation. Someone with 9 Pillars who broke through would strike at Great Circle Core Formation, and if they hit Great Circle of Core Formation, would strike at Early/Mid Nascent Soul.
*rubs chin* I think it might go a bit differently based on the spreadsheet and this post here:

13th Heavenstage - 288 (Benefit: Dao Purification Stage - Cultivator purifies their Dao in the same way breaking into the Core Formation Realm requires. They are able to cultivate the One-Pillar Foundation Establishment path, yielding many secret benefits.)

Foundation Establishment: (NB: Number of pillars varies. This is merely an average number of Dao Pillars for worldbuilding purposes. Usually speaking, though, more than 7 is incredibly rare. Some truly focused cultivators manage to form one immutable Pillar into a Core, but the certainty in one's Dao-Heart this requires is heaven-defying)
The 13th Heavenstage sounds like the door into a super secret second path through Foundation Establishment where you only have one super pillar and don't forge any others because you are so hyper focused on this one thing.

My current theories have it split this way:

One Pillar Path
Get to 13th Heavenstage and form the One Pillar.
Reinforce the One Pillar through Foundation Establishment.
Form the One Pillar into a Core when you breakthrough to Core Formation.

Emperor's Path
Get to the 12th Heavenstage having a pure Body, Qi and Soul.
Work through the path up to 8 Pillars in Foundation Establishment.
Then build a 9th Pillar with extreme effort.
Align those 9 Pillars into a Core when you breakthrough to Core Formation.
 
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The 13th Heavenstage sounds like the door into a super secret second path through Foundation Establishment where you only have one super pillar and don't forge any others because you are so hyper focused on this one thing.
I asked earlier, and turns out 13th Heavenstage doesn't lock you to the One-Pillar path. Abstaining from One-Pillar means you'd lose a lot of the reason for going to 13th instead of 12th in exchange for twice as strong Tribulation than 12th, but it still does give some bonuses.

(The bonus being a greater surety in your Dao. Not sure if that's worth getting that way when it doubles all tribulation for all breakthroughs further compared to 12th. After all, that's obtainable from other sources.)
 
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I asked earlier, and turns out 13th Heavenstage doesn't lock you to the One-Pillar path. Abstaining from One-Pillar means you'd lose a lot of the reason for going to 13th instead of 12th in exchange for twice as strong Tribulation than 12th, but it still does give some bonuses.
Innnnnteresting. Makes me more interested to stick to 12th Heavenstage and progress from there.
 
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