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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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New Good Seed and Omake Rule Updates
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    • Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

    Firstly, if you have questions about Good Seeds and the like please read here. If that doesn't answer your question please ping me in thread, or on Discord.

    If you write a new Good Seed, or write an omake, please update the spreadsheet if you have access.

    If you do not have access, please ping a collaborator (Swordomatic, Alectai, Quest, TehChron, Insane-Not-Crazy, Humbaba, ReaderOfFate, Kaboomatic, no., BungieONI) letting them know what you want and they will update the spreadsheet here. To gain access, you will need a gmail account of some kind. Throwaway emails are fine (I'm using one for the spreadsheet), but to gain access it's as simple as sending me either your email via PM, via DM in Discord, or just in Discord's #spreadsheet-requests channel.

    This is mandatory. If a Good Seed does not record their omake by pinging collabs (or just requesting access and editing things themselves - this is the preferred option), I won't give out awards. If a new Good Seed is not recorded here, they won't advance. By doing this it makes the whole thing manageable for me - it's gotten pretty unwieldy!

    -----------------------

    Omake Writer Instructions:

    There are four fields you need to fill out.

    Omake Link, which is just a link to your first omake for the turn. This makes it easier for me to read them as I do the update - without this it's tough to know off the bat which omake were written this turn, and to properly

    Requested Bonus, which is your requested bonus for your omake. You can leave it up to me if you like. You can see more info in the Good Seed infopost here.

    Cultivation Aims. For those following unorthodox paths - higher than 9th Heavenstage or later than 7th Dao Pillar paths. Please put in what you are aiming for before you break through. I have left it as 'default'. If you do not edit it, I'll go with that.

    Turn Notes - Do you want to do something specific? Enter a Secret Realm? Help the Clan out in some way? If you have something specific you want to accomplish on this turn, put it in turn notes so I can adjust your Fate around it.

    All other fields are for QM use to record character information to properly run the flow of the game.
     
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    • I respect Alectai experience to herding the cat.

    If average player is good at planning then he is probably more comfortable with genius.

    That is mentality of "benefit now" v.s. "benefit maybe never".
     
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    A mortal might live a hundred years at their absolute most. A Qi Condensation cultivator at the peak of Qi Condensation can live to 200. A Foundation Establishment cultivator can live to around 500. A Core Formation cultivator can live to around 1,000, and a Nascent Soul cultivator can live to around 5,000 years of age

    There are ways to stretch that out, as well - sleeping a lot, stealing lifespan from other cultivators, using heavenly treasures and pills, and so on. These all combined cannot give you immortality, but the rule of Five sets a hard limit. Spirit Severing cultivators can live for 25,000 years, but no matter what heavenly treasures or opportunities they find, the absolute limit of the lifespan of a Nascent Soul cultivator is 25,000 years.

    Heaven is fair, but will not allow you to exceed the limits of those above you.

    This is very generic and obviously there is massive variance.

    But for an average Nascent Soul cultivator, their progress is roughly as follows:

    Bottlenecks:

    Cultivators are often stuck at Bottlenecks - the below progression assumes Bottlenecks proceed smoothly. However, various advancements make this unlikely - most cultivators will not advance at this speed. This is for the average cultivator who reaches Nascent Soul.

    Qi Condensation - Age
    Starting as a 16-year old mortal
    1st Heavenstage - 21
    2nd Heavenstage - 25
    3rd Heavenstage - 30 (Semi-bottleneck, though not major. The Acupoint Awareness stage. Advancing too fast through the 3rd Heavenstage will negatively impact future development)
    4th Heavenstage - 35
    5th Heavenstage - 40 (1st Bottleneck from 5th to 6th. The Meridian Opening Stage. Advancing without sufficient meridians opened will drastically impact future development)
    6th Heavenstage - 45
    7th Heavenstage - 50
    8th Heavenstage - 55 (2nd Bottleneck from 8th to 9th. Dantian Expansion Stage. Advancing without properly shaping and expanding the Dantian will make it difficult to contain more Dao Pillars, negatively impacting future development)
    9th Heavenstage - 60 (Required to reach Foundation Building. Usually establishing the first Dao Pillar takes decades of thought and effort. It can be done quickly, but an incomplete or poorly thought-out Dao Pillar can be the ruination of a cultivator's future prospects, so usually cultivators choose to wait and develop the steadiest Dao Pillar possible)

    (Each Heavenstage above the 9th offers considerable benefits for the cultivator in the long-run in terms of body and soul strength, but also makes tribulation much more difficult. Reaching the 13th is incredibly rare)

    10th Heavenstage - 108 (Benefit: Body Purification Stage - Cultivator's body is cleansed of all impurities, gains considerable strength, speed, and toughness.)
    11th Heavenstage - 188 (Benefit: Qi Purification Stage - Cultivator gains pure Qi that flows through a pure body. This pure Qi allows them to fuel more powerful techniques, and makes a cultivator unparalleled in their small realm.)
    12th Heavenstage - 208 (Benefit: Soul Purification Stage - Cultivator purifies their soul, allowing them resistance against soul attacks, a boost to soul arts, and a large boost to soul cultivation in the Nascent Soul realm.)
    13th Heavenstage - 288 (Benefit: Dao Purification Stage - Cultivator purifies their Dao in the same way breaking into the Core Formation Realm requires. They are able to cultivate the One-Pillar Foundation Establishment path, yielding many secret benefits.)

    Foundation Establishment: (NB: Number of pillars varies. This is merely an average number of Dao Pillars for worldbuilding purposes. Usually speaking, though, more than 7 is incredibly rare. Some truly focused cultivators manage to form one immutable Pillar into a Core, but the certainty in one's Dao-Heart this requires is heaven-defying)

    Early (1st Pillar) - 100
    Mid (3rd Pillar) - 160 (Bottleneck - aligning three pillars is difficult, and misalignment will prevent further advancement).
    Late (5th Pillar) - 220
    Great Circle (7th Pillar) - 340 (Required to break through. Bottleneck - the seven pillars must be aligned perfectly in order to be able to fuse into a core. Reaching Great Circle is much easier than aligning one's pillars in preparation to break through. You cannot realign your pillars once you reach Great Circle, so the Bottleneck is spending more time and effort smoothing your way to a Core)
    True Dao Pillars (8th pillar) - 588 (Offers tremendous benefits in future realms. Creating 8 Pillars allows one to break through with relative ease, the Heavens easing your path. Incredibly difficult. 8 Dao pillars offer a substantial and permanent boost to one's luck.)
    Emperor's Pillar (9th Pillar) - ??? (Benefits not known by Golden Devil Clan. Theoretical maximum number of Dao Pillars.)

    Core Formation:
    Early (Misty Core) - 400
    Mid (Liquid Core) - 500
    Late (Solid Core) - 660 (Required to try and enter False Nascent Soul.)
    Great Circle (Dao Core) - 888 (Required to break through to Nascent Soul. Most cultivators break through here)
    Twin-Souled (Twin Cores) - 1,200 (A Cultivator can go through False Tribulation, and split their Core in two. When it comes time to ascend to Nascent Soul, they will have two Nascent Souls, requiring twice the resources to retain and twice the tribulation withstood. However, the benefits in terms of combat are immense)

    Nascent Soul:
    Early - 1,000
    Mid - 1,250 (Bottlenecked, primarily by resources. Early Nascent Souls can advance quickly, but upon breaking through to mid consume far, far more resources)
    Late - 3,000
    Great Circle - 6,000 (NB - only truly superior talents or those who manage to extend their lifespans tend to reach the Great Circle small realm)
     
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    I would have voted for Rebel if the PC wasn't going to be incompetent at managing the clan. If the PC cultivated quickly instead of being a heaven defying genius it would be better.The PC would only be inexperienced and I feel Rebel works better if there was a late nascent soul elder present managing the clan while the PC cultivates.
     
    So, Heaven-Defying reaches Mid-Nascent Soul in just 150 more years, or 7-8 turns. That's a really big deal, because while combat skill is important, the difference between even small Realms within the Nascent Soul Stage is a very big gap.

    Sure, it'll take us 60 turns to reach the mundane skill of Slowly, but in pure power, we'd be at the Great Circle of Nascent Soul at that point, while Slowly would still be at the Early Stage. That's enormous.
     
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    I voted rebel to vote against darkness because I don't like the wordy write in Kingdom Hearts reference Dao or whatever. I prefer old a bit over young because we don't need to make a Cultivation Protagonist we need to raise one.
     
    occipitallobe said:
    You start at mid Nascent Soul - your breakthrough is the first first event that happens when you start playing.
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    Wow. So, is this for Heaven-Defying only, or all starts? I'm guessing for Heaven-Defying only, because only that has Mid be at 300 years.

    EDIT: Got corrected. It's actually all starts.

    If so, that's an incredible advantage. No wonder you made it so that start was unpracticed in comaprison.

    From there, it looks like we'd be 15 turns away from hitting the Late stage, and 22-23 away from hitting the Great Circle.
     
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    ReaderOfFate said:
    Wow. So, is this for Heaven-Defying only, or all starts?

    If so, that's an incredible advantage. No wonder you made it so that start was unpracticed in comaprison.

    From there, it looks like we'd be 15 turns away from hitting the Late stage, and 22-23 away from hitting the Great Circle.
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    All starts are at mid-level Nascent Soul.

    I would say, though, the higher your cultivation, the more resources you require to both attain and maintain that level. It's not necessarily as simple as turtling up and winning - not to mention incredibly quick cultivation will drastically increase how others see you threat-wise. There are only two other Great Circle Nascent Soul cultivators in your region, and neither are anywhere near you - but both are mired in endless wars and suppression from others to prevent them taking advantage of their status too much.

    Of course, they do lead the greatest Demonic and Righteous powers respectively...

    That being said, Late/Great Circle is a really big advantage.

    The main choice here is 'do you want a boost to cleverness and being good at stuff generally across the board, or do you want a delayed nuclear faceslap option?'

    These are relatively equal choices, mind you. Cultivation bonuses are so good that an extra 1,200 years of life experience between the choices (Heaven-Defying has 1/5th the experience of Slow, except less than that because Heaven-Defying has been able to spend a lot more time mindlessly cultivating while Slow has needed to go out and adventure to even have a possibility of advancing) only puts these choices on par with one another.
     
    What do the Demoinc think of us I now Righteous think of us as mounters and steping stones but what about the Demoinc side I would of thought they would like to piss off Haven more
     
    gale said:
    What do the Demoinc think of us I now Righteous think of us as mounters and steping stones but what about the Demoinc side I would of thought they would like to piss off Haven more
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    Depends, really. Demonic sects are much more varied than Righteous ones. The Demonic Altar Sect wages constant wars against the neighbouring Righteous powers, murdering millions of mortals every year and sees everyone as blood for their blood enhancement path.

    The Magic Oak Sect is only Demonic because their Magical Artery Oak drops acorns that, when willingly and knowingly ingested, allow those who have eaten them to kill each other and gain one another's power and talent. They use this as a competition to winnow out disciples, but don't practice Blood Path at all otherwise and to outside powers are usually fairly benign.

    Demonic Sects don't hate Heaven, they just don't play by the Righteous set of rules - no Blood Path, no Poison Path, no mass murder of mortals (NB: This is very different to killing ten thousand - mostly innocent - people to put down a rebellion, or deliberately selling off too much food and having a few hundred thousand mortals starve to death), along with certain rules on exchanging pointers, winning access to secret realms, entering Turtlebone Mountain when it is very rarely possible, etc, etc.

    Some Righteous powers even happily use Blood and Poison methods in secret, but if they were found out they'd pay a huge price.
     
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    Seems like seeker of darkness has won, big L to those who want a nuclear face-slap option like me.
     
    uri said:
    can we have some examples for those benefits?

    what is the starting talent for good seeds (assuming they dont take increased talent as their special bonus)?
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    Slow, if they don't use Omake to increase their cultivation opportunities, talent, or lifespan.

    Bear in mind we're talking about average Nascent Soul cultivators here, not average people. A slow Nascent Soul cultivator still had sufficient will and talent to make it to Core Formation, which puts them in the top 1% of Foundation Building cultivators, the top 0.01% of Qi Condensation cultivators, and the top 0.0001% of people more generally. They also made it to Late Core Formation in their natural lifespan, which puts them in the top ~20% of Core Formation cultivators.

    An average Nascent Soul cultivator is literally a one in 100,000,000 talent. A Heaven-Defying one is probably a one in two or three billion talent.

    Your average Qi Condensation cultivator will never make it out of Qi Condensation, and this is true for everyone who reaches any given realm.

    (I've just tinkered with the numbers, btw - specifically Foundation Building and a little Core Formation to make this reflect Nascent Soul reality a bit beter)
     
    A lot of people seem to have a problem with Heaven Defying, but I still think my other choices are also good, would anyone be willing to vote for Rebel Cause if I reduce the talent?
     
    Looks like Darkness has a decent lead, but it's interesting to look at the numbers now that we have them.

    We're looking at 1500 years, or 75 turns, before we get to Late Stage, as opposed to the 300 years, or 15 turns, of Rebel. Average would reach in 1000 years, or 50 turns, and quickly would get there in 700 years, or 35 turns.

    We already knew that Rebel was a monster and cultivated roughly five times as fast as Darkness, but it's weird to think that someone born the day the quest starts will reach Mid Nascent before while we're still 500 years off of Late Nascent, assuming they have average talent. Assuming Darkness wins, there's a reasonable possibility that we're reached or overtaken, cultivation wise, by one of the children we're teaching at game start. A newborn with 'Heaven Defying' talent would hit Late Nascent in 30 turns, well before we will, and a 'Quickly' talent would get there in 70 turns, shortly before us. It'll be interesting to watch our allies and enemies just sort of walk past us.

    Interesting tidbit, we have 2 Great Circle Core Formation cultivators already, so they're going to hit Late Nascent about two and a half turns after us, assuming they survive and have average talent. They might get there before us, actually, if the teaching spec pays off and helps them cultivate faster.

    Out of curiosity, what would happen, if anything, were someone in the sect to reach Late Nascent before us, @occipitallobe ?
     
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