Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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I actually am entertaining schemes to get around that. If we can use the Ceaseless Chant on the Grand Circle Nascent Devil Bee nest, we can cripple that threat and loot their lands to the bedrock. Even if we dont wipe out the entirety of the Devil Bee species that matters less if we dobt try to make it sustainable

Edit: Also, I want to at least maintain some kind of Warchest going into next turn
I think this is a good plan. My only issue is it might hit Old Cannibal's bottom line and incite him, or any of his nascent, to come over the mountains or prematurely wreck the Colossus Path before we're ready. While we still have that Psuedo-Nascent Light Beast I would like to play that card on Ol'Fish or one of his Early Nascents.

What would be really cool is if we get a situation where we have Ol'Cannibal vs Nascent/Core Hopilite Formation boosted Manuel. But that would leave us open to his other Nascents maneuvering around us.
 
[ ] Plan -ned Suppression
-[ ] Set Prices High - Hold onto the supplies for now in case the Pass cannot be reopened for half a century or more. This will cause more casualties now, but less in the long-term.
-[ ] Wait, and see what else might arise.
-[ ] Fortifying (The Yuan Clan) - Spend Clan manpower and soldiers to build new fortifications against outside enemies. New Arrays, help train new cultivators in lesser Formations to defend their lands, and so on. Will also strengthen a vassal or ally if chosen, and increase relations with them. Increases defenses in the chosen territory, ally, or vassal.
--[ ] "It's a difficult thing to say, but the Archegetes may have invested overmuch in the gambits taking place in the Yuan clan. The Clan has often made due with less wealth, when the sweat of our Optimatoi has served well enough to create great works and fortifications. We have enough forces deployed along the breadth of the Yuan, and enough resources invested in it. Let those who are already present dig in, and reshape our newest vassals land into a bulwark to rat out the temporary problem. And make a permanent reminder to the Region just who owns that land now. A declaration the Yuans invaders are unable to ignore, a perfect bait for their Nascent souls. A Monstrous Root Threshing Domain."
-[ ] Manuel - Hunt An Enemy (Yuan Clan Invasion Nascents) - Why not? Hunt down enemies, see if you can kill someone. Usually used against an opposing Nascent Soul. Potentially very dangerous.
--[ ] "The Archegetes remains our most powerful combatant by a wide margin, and even in a territory lacking in his typical preparations and schemes seeded throughout it, the Yuan Clan territories have their own defenses that they can inform us of, our own assets freshly deployed there to account for, and our own Legions to frustrate and inevitably bait out enemy Nascent Souls. Kill one, it may be insufficient. Kill many, it will definitely be enough. Catch them between a thousand anvils, and a singular hammer in the Archegetes and we can bring and end to this miserable affair, and not a moment too soon."
-[ ] Kleisthenes - Open Diplomatic Relations (Blood Oak Sect)
--[ ] "For too long have our new neighbors to the North gone ignored. I will be having Casia assist me in opening up formal relations with the Blood Oaks to the North. Regardless of what the ongoing situation is for the rest of the Region, they're direct neighbors with the Qiguai Clan, who we know are the direct target of the Gao Clan and Shattered Time Sect. If they intend to make moves there, I would rather we not act at cross purposes there.
-[ ] Xinya - Accompany and Assist Manuel in Hunting Yuan Clan Invasion Nascent Souls.
--[ ] "The Archegetes can not be expected to perform his flawless preparations for combat as he normally could. However, our Third Elder possesses the necessary expertise to make up for it, as well as feed new sources of intelligence to the Archegetes in order to better prepare and execute the necessary ambushes in order to truly end this final desperate gambit by the Ma Clan, once and for all.'
-[ ] Casia - Offer Peace (Blood Oak Sect) - Casia's personal ability allows her to bring harmony between people and among them. Within the Clan she can calm vassals, outside of it she can calm relations, between the Clan and her target or between any two targets. If she were permitted to use this for twenty turns unobstructed she might end the current War, so it is more useful in repairing failing relations than trying to rebuild failed ones.
--[ ] "With Casia's assistance I might be able to negotiate for terms and concessions that otherwise would be utterly unthinkable, especially in the absence of the Archegetes peerless intelligence gathering capabilities to provide advantages for us to make use of. We will project Absolute Goodwill to them, and in doing so hopefully win the Blood Oaks over to our side, abandoning the Blood Path in its entirety. After that...there will only be two powers left in the Mountains, of which only one is capable of being harmful to us anymore."
-[ ] Forge a Wedding Ring (Major Purchase - 2 Purchases)
-[ ] Use 3 Shadow Key Points to Purchase the Earl's Insignia
-[ ] Use 2 Shadow Key Points to Purchase the Fortress-Mounts

With the acquisition of a fourth Nascent Soul and the potential to bring either Trial Lord or Lady Yao into our orbit for a campaign, it's time to go into what I've been low and high key boilerplating for much of the past year: What I refer to as the "Wicked Twilight Retribution" based around the creation of a Nascent Soul-Grade Artifact Fortress using the Fortress-Mounts legacy to create an invading spearhead deep into Devil Bee's territory with the explicit purpose of creating a hard point that will deprive the Abyssal Invasion of the ability to replenish their stores of Devil Bee Mounts.

This would normally be a tall order due to the presence of Old Cannibal as a Late Nascent with attendant backup dancers, but we have all the pieces necessary to assemble a counterweight to prevent him from being able to dominate, at which point his natural caution will win out and he'll likely cede the battle space to Manuel and the Clan while fully aware that we have no way to prosecute a war beyond the Mountains, nor will he believe us capable of actually holding the Devil Bee territories due to the Hives to the Soutth of that particular territory.

And ordinarily he'd be correct to.

However, the true objective isn't to hold the territories indefinitely. It's to hold them for long enough to set up the Implacable Chant either over the pass that enables access from the Verdant South...

Or.

Little enough is known of the Chant, except that it can be used to render a region entirely barren for nearly three centuries, a Qi-dead zone that will drain the life from enemies and friends alike. Once used it cannot be stopped, and while Nascent Souls can easily bypass it, it extends nearly two hundred kilometres across in diameter. It was used and locked away as it takes centuries to be re-used, but can stop an enemy army in its tracks, or serve as a permanent barrier for a beleaguered people. It can also conceivably ruin an enemy stronghold, sucking it dry of Qi and killing everyone within.

If the bolded means that we can uses it as an assassination tool against the Great Circle Nascent Devil Bee herself, then that just means we can permanently break them as a sustainable species in the first place, and then loot the bounteous Devil Bee lands ourselves before burning it all to the ground on our way out.

Either way, we just need to meet the criteria of:

  • A Nascent Force capable of Matching or Surpassing Old Cannibal
  • A Mobile Hardpoint capable of resisting Nascent Soul attacks, in which to station sufficient Legions to contribute to an Early Nascent Soul fight
  • The Righteous Path need to convince Old Cannibal to split his forces so he does not devote a plurality of Nascent Souls to his defense of the Devil Bee lands

And we should be able to repel Old Cannibal from returning to the Desert in sufficient force to present an existential threat until the end of the game, he'll be so caught up in restoring his own infrastructure and offensive mobility that he no doubt intended to use as an integral part of his strategy to keep his Abyssal Invasion of Love and Peace relevant against the Blood Defiance Pact long term.

We currently possess the first criteria, we still need the second which requires the Fortress Mounts. And while I ideally would've preferred we use Weeping Anvils corpse for that this turn, it doesn't appear to be on the table. So I'll hold off and hope that the presence of the Mounts will inspire something from Destasia next turn, if not we'll go for one of her presented options then.

Next turn, ideally, we can secure the final criteria by opening up negotiations with the Blood Defiance Pact. And the benefit of getting Manuel and Xinya to focus on crippling the Yuan invasion this turn is that we can start benefiting from the Yuan Clan tribute as soon as possible, and Manuel can focus on generating additional Shadow Tokens so we can get enough to purchase the Bull and Paints in order to further tilt the Nascent Fight that will come about in the Mountains in our Favor as much as possible.

Thankfully this isnt such an involved strategy that it'll eat up everything we do. With Xinya's ascension in addition to Casia's, we actually have a fair bit of breathing room to carry this out in addition to putting out any other fires that crop up in the lead up to Turn 18, which is when Old Cannibal's ban on the desert runs out, and he'll definitely start scheming to come back after us in force once again.

At which point, its better to take the initiative to get this wrapped before the Turn 20 Trials, which will otherwise be an ideal timing for Old Cannibal to strike at us with the full force of the Abyssal Invasion. Deny him the Devil Bees he'd otherwise be relying on to give him weight of numbers and speed, and Old Cannibal will be unable to prosecute an invasion into the desert from the Plains for at least a century.

Not without denuding the Verdant South of nearly all his Nascent Souls, and risking a genuine clap back from the Righteous Path powers that he's been terrorizing for the past century and change, that is.

I think this is a good plan. My only issue is it might hit Old Cannibal's bottom line and incite him, or any of his nascent, to come over the mountains or prematurely wreck the Colossus Path before we're ready. While we still have that Psuedo-Nascent Light Beast I would like to play that card on Ol'Fish or one of his Early Nascents.
As illustrated in the rest of the post, that simply won't be a problem by that time. And the Lightbeast was already deployed in the Yuan territories to help defend them. That card is no longer playable, and it wouldn't have been anyway. We had three turns to use it or lose it, so thats where it wound up going. Sorry.
 
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-[ ] Set Prices High - Hold onto the supplies for now in case the Pass cannot be reopened for half a century or more. This will cause more casualties now, but less in the long-term.
-[ ] Wait, and see what else might arise.
This is just leaving potential on the table we need to be at our best now and while I care less about the price of supplies the use for our nascent soul corps should be used now and not in the hop that it could be used later.

The three options we have are good enough and can really change the coming few turns, sometimes waiting for a better option is the play, this is not such a time. things are coming to a head in the next few turns there is no guarantee we'll get a better option in that time.

-[ ] Manuel - Hunt An Enemy (Yuan Clan Invasion Nascents)
No, just no manual is injured and not his full self. Even with another nascent soul escorting him that just setting him up to die.

Manual shouldn't go outside clan lands until he's at full power (combat wise at least).

Aside from the fact it could revel to the world he's injured I will repeat that he could very well die.

And takin unnecessary risks with his life is way too fuckin risky.

We currently possess the first criteria,
We don't, we don't have it. maybe defensibly but even that is somewhat debatable.

We have one mid (which is at the pick of his realm with the spear) and 3 early's (with one having treasures that push her to low mid) and if scarp all of core formation guys we could manage a formation that would match another early (but they lack enough maneuverability to really matter). We could also get another early and maybe the yuan patriarch (buts that debatable because we haven't picked that action)

He has 1 late, 3 mid and 1 early, we're outpowered in pure nascent soul power. which could be overcome in a defensive fight but offensively? I expect we'll lose more then we gain out of such combat.


And we should be able to repel Old Cannibal from returning to the Desert in sufficient force to present an existential threat until the end of the game, he'll be so caught up in restoring his own infrastructure and offensive mobility that he no doubt intended to use as an integral part of his strategy to keep his Abyssal Invasion of Love and Peace relevant against the Blood Defiance Pact long term.
That's a big assumption, he could very much think that stopping old gold before he pulls more nascent souls out of his ass (or that the current ones get more experience and maybe break to mid) is more important for his long term plans.

As illustrated in the rest of the post, that simply won't be a problem by that time. And the Lightbeast was already deployed in the Yuan territories to help defend them. That card is no longer playable, and it wouldn't have been anyway. We had three turns to use it or lose it, so thats where it wound up going. Sorry.
Did we? The choice for upgrading it seems to imply we still had the choice.
 
This is just leaving potential on the table we need to be at our best now
No we dont. We objectively don't. The Ma Clans invasion is so stymied we arent even technically at war with them, the Clan can unironically focus on something else instead.

We are that free to act.


No, just no manual is injured and not his full self. Even with another nascent soul escorting him that just setting him up to die.

Manual shouldn't go outside clan lands until he's at full power (combat wise at least)
Vassal lands are Clan lands, next question


We don't, we don't have it. maybe defensibly but even that is somewhat debatable
Four Nascent Souls guaranteed and additional ones we can bribe into further empowering the Formation from there

By the strictest definition? We absolutely meet it.


That's a big assumption, he could very much think that stopping old gold before he pulls more nascent souls out of his ass (or that the current ones get more experience and maybe break to mid) is more important for his long term plans.
Only if he thinks theres no hope for him making a come back in the future, which he'll never assume so long as he gets a chance to bail and try again later. Again: he'll see the taking of the Abyssal Bees territory as a temporary denial tactic, one that buys us time and messes up his timetable for vengeance, but not meaningfully so

At least, he will until it's too late

Did we? The choice for upgrading it seems to imply we still had the choice.
...We dont have an option to upgrade the Lightbeast

We have an option to upgrade the Beast Tide Trap. Which is an entirely different thing Destasia made at considerable expense (to us)
 
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He has 1 late, 3 mid and 1 early, we're outpowered in pure nascent soul power. which could be overcome in a defensive fight but offensively? I expect we'll lose more then we gain out of such combat.
We have an equalizer in the form of Nascent-grade Formations - 4 Clan Nascents working together in the Hoplite Formation is able to stalemate a Late Nascent. We've got 100 Core Elders that can form another Formation matching 1 Early. Then we have Yao Zhihao (Early) and Yuan Nascent (Mid) that we can negotiate to join a battle if needed. To sum up: 1 Late, 1 Mid, 2 Early would be available to us.

That leaves 3 Mid Nascents for Cannibal, which is why we're aiming for the RP to distract them since some have to stay behind to defend their territory in the Plains. Also we should probably discount Hu Ai, the Mid Nascent loaned out by Altar Lord, because it's likely by the time OC wants to invade the Clan, she might be recalled back north to discourage OC from trying. Since Altar Lord's plan hinges on the Clan's good seeds and our long-term success.

And lastly, 1 of those 2 remaining Mid Nascents is Old Fish, who will take any chance to kill Cannibal if he's brought along.

Did we? The choice for upgrading it seems to imply we still had the choice.
The upgrade option is for the Beast Tide Trap, which is completely different from the Light Beast Trap. The Beast Tide is a defensive array used by the Yuan Clan that we hijacked, the Light Beast is what Destasia made and planted in Yuan territory as part of last turn's winning plan.
And best of all, a Core Elder in the Eternal Deep who managed the many defensive arrays that would hold back a Beast-Tide. In the event one was triggered, well, she could let it ravage the lands of the Yuan entirely…
She has free reign to use available resources to secure his cooperation, specifically the deployment of the Light Qi-Beast and the Beast Tide trap. The Yuan Patriarch is a wounded gazelle left out for the tiger, and we shall ensure that at the very very least we shall not lose out to base scavengers and fallen horse-slaves."
 
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If the bolded means that we can uses it as an assassination tool against the Great Circle Nascent Devil Bee herself, then that just means we can permanently break them as a sustainable species in the first place, and then loot the bounteous Devil Bee lands ourselves before burning it all to the ground on our way out.
Chron I usually like your plans but… Nope. Nope nope nope nope nope.

Given the text says nascent souls can easily get around it I think the best case scenario would be killing a lot of her children and forcing her to find a new nest.

We do not want to get a great circle nascent soul to start flying around looking for a new place to nest. Maybe it kills our enemies. Maybe it eats our armies in the pass. Maybe it goes and nests in the plains and gives old cannibal better access to his mounts.

I really don't think this idea is worth it.

Maybe denial of the access route the sect uses to sneak close enough to steal their mounts but assassinate if the Devil bee queen? Nope.

Edit: Autocorrupt fixed.
 
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Maybe denial of the access route the sect uses to sneak close enough to steal their mounts but assassinate if the Devil bee queen? Nope.
That's the default plan, yeah. But if we can pull off the more ambitious thing, then that'd put a permanent and terrible blow to the Devil Bees ambitions for the Region. And let us actually hold the territories themselves a lot more easily.

But yeah, its not quite necessary to go that far to begin with, no.
 
Chrons plan involves a flying doom fortress, this is almost enough to secure my vote, for I am a simple creature. I'm not sure if I'm sold on the long term vision, it feels like it needs a lot of things to go just right. Yet the plan for this turn makes sense.

Selling High is the correct choice. We are likely looking at a century of warfare on multiple fronts, with our main supply route currently throttled. Meanwhile the update reminded us we are coming off a century of massive pop growth with more coming down the line. This is a time to spend a little blood rather than a lot of coin.

I think a lot of people will blanch at sending off Manuel as an assassin while wounded, but its likely an essential and calculated risk. If I recall correctly, our deal with the Yuan included a clause that the Yuan Nascent wouldnt need to defend his own land in this war (he's Badly Wounded I think) and the invaders likely have substantial Nascent power at their disposal. No amount of Legions or Fortifications will matter if we don't present a countermeasure and a 'wedded' Manuel and Xinya are probably the best we can do.

My only real concern is using 2 Nascent actions on the Magic Oak. It feels a little random at this point. Everything I remember from their write up screamed 'defensive, isolationist, low tier power'. I get wanting to open talks with another demonic but not genocidal nation, but I don't see this producing the kind of immediate benefits we need? Sure Kleisthenes might pull out another ridiculous roll and secure us another vassal state, but I feel like anything less than that will feel disappointing/an opportunity wasted.

I would either put our more experienced and fighty Early into the Yuan conflict (this might reasure folks who worry about deploying Manuel) and have Casia focus on administration to prep our cash reserves for a big push next turn.

Keeping my mind open here. Though plans with flying fortresses are more likely to get my vote.
 
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My only real concern is using 2 Nascent actions on the Magic Oak. It feels a little random at this point. Everything I remember from their write up screamed 'defensive, isolationist, low tier power'. I get wanting to open talks with another demonic but not genocidal nation, but I don't see this producing the kind of immediate benefits we need? Sure Kleisthenes might pull out another ridiculous roll and secure us another vassal state, but I feel like anything less than that will feel disappointing/an opportunity wasted.
It actually helps us cover up any ruffled feathers from us ignoring them for so long after becoming desert Hegemon, and it also gives us diplomatic channels and leverage to negotiate a conclusion to whatever is going on with the Qiguai. Since we can't actually take the Qiguai in an invasion that we'd have to prosecute entirely on our own, that leaves diplomacy to placate them.

Whereas with the Qiguai, they're already getting jumped by a minimum of two Demonic Powers, and we wouldn't be able to support them until after the Yuan Invasion is dealt with. So lets say that we manage to crit overflow the Blood Oak into letting us take the lead on ending the war in the Qiguai, we can use that as backing to chase off the Gao and the Time Shatter, and secure the entirety of the Qiguai Secret Realm for ourselves.

With or without the Qiguai's willing submission in the process.

Either way, resolving that issue is going to require interaction with the Blood Oak, and its best to do so with them having as positive an impression of us as possible, plus sending two Early Nascent Souls there is a good show of force, rather than one freshly ascended Early Nascent Soul who could potentially be ganked because.

You know.

Blood path psychos that might have taken power in the wake of the Blood Mists and we're completely blind to whats going on with them since the Blood Mists descended.
 
No we dont. We objectively don't. The Ma Clans invasion is so stymied we arent even technically at war with them, the Clan can unironically focus on something else instead.
We do, this turn we're fighting the war in yuan and might have some intervention in whatever the fuck is going on with the pass. We need our regular forces to be at their strongest right now.

More casualties later hurts less then more casualties now, especially when we might be able to delay or prevent the consequences by various means.

Vassal lands are Clan lands, next question
They aren't, not in the way I meant it at least, the yuan lands aren't as well defended nor do they have whatever traps Manual seeded around for defense.

This is a risk; manual can die or get more seriously injured because your sending him already injured. An unnecessary risk. Send the other two in his stead. Should be more then enough and would get them some nascent combat experience.

By the strictest definition? We absolutely meet it.
We don't, we don't fucking do and thinking that we do and planning around that is how we overextend and lose half our nascent soul force or 70% or our core elders again.

Even if were taking into account all of our allies (and assume they won't be distracted by something else) and formations we don't match old cannibal pound for pound.

Its close enough that on the defensive in clan lands we could drive them off but raiding in force with that kind of numbers? On their prepared territory? We don't match his forces we just don't and it's a delusion to think that we do.

At least, he will until it's too late
He's not an idiot, you know? He's not jut going to let us build up especially not after such a huge raid as your suggesting. Your take is wildly optimistic and your whole plan seems to be based around the idea that hell do exactly as you think he'll do.

...We dont have an option to upgrade the Lightbeast
My bad then, this quest has been dormant for like a year+ so some thing got mixed up.

We have an equalizer in the form of Nascent-grade Formations - 4 Clan Nascents working together in the Hoplite Formation is able to stalemate a Late Nascent. We've got 100 Core Elders that can form another Formation matching 1 Early. Then we have Yao Zhihao (Early) and Yuan Nascent (Mid) that we can negotiate to join a battle if needed. To sum up: 1 Late, 1 Mid, 2 Early would be available to us.
That is still less than 1 late 3 mid and 1 early, especially when attacking on their ground and especially when utilizing formation when the battle might shift enough form then to no longer be usable.

This is not matching them, this is a force that with the help of being on the defensive could drive them off with large casualties then counter attack into their lands.

And lastly, 1 of those 2 remaining Mid Nascents is Old Fish, who will take any chance to kill Cannibal if he's brought along.
Wasn't old fish the early? I remember that both of the blood paths from the former bee sect were mid?
 
We do, this turn we're fighting the war in yuan and might have some intervention in whatever the fuck is going on with the pass. We need our regular forces to be at their strongest right now.

More casualties later hurts less then more casualties now, especially when we might be able to delay or prevent the consequences by various means.
We literally no sold the Trials, Uri. By every objective metric we are obscenely far ahead of our expected population count right now. You're spouting stock phrases with no substance to them. You. Are. Wrong.

They aren't, not in the way I meant it at least
So what, we've got the defenses we've already planted there. We've got the defenses I intend to have us set up there. And we have the defenses the the Yuan Clan will gladly coordinate with us in the defense of their homes and cities. There is deck stacking, and then there is literally playing chicken with the pigeon in an 18-wheeler with bulletproof windshields.

The sooner the invasion is scared off, the sooner these issues you're oh-so-concerned about...Simply cease to exist.

We don't, we don't fucking do
Insisting we don't when the numbers are literally right there - staring us in the face - doesn't make it any less true Uri. Sorry. It's a shame, but that's all it is.

A shame.

He's not an idiot, you know? He's not jut going to let us build up especially not after such a huge raid as your suggesting. Your take is wildly optimistic and your whole plan seems to be based around the idea that hell do exactly as you think he'll do.
...Let us?

Did you not read anything I said?

Without access to the Devil Bee hives in the mountains he is going to be able to prevent us from doing precisely nothing. At all. How's he going to get that army of his over the mountains, infamously filled with Demonic Beasts that attack anyone regardless of who that top out at high end Nascent Soul? Without an ability to replenish his Devil Bee mounts?

Wasn't old fish the early? I remember that both of the blood paths from the former bee sect were mid?
...Are you serious?

I can't believe you're being this vehement about something you're so completely, objectively wrong about. The Bee Nascents are both early. That's why we killed Weeping Anvil, so they couldn't use him to raise to Mid. Old Fish is Mid.
 
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Liking this plan but is there any plan for dealing with the Heaven Favored that the Righteous have running around? After all I doubt it'd be a good idea to let them grow unhindered by us given they'll be gunning for us sooner then later.
Ideally, we're basically going to force Old Cannibal to focus entirely on the RP by denying him the logistical capacity to invade the desert, as well as set things up where we can secure Qiguai entirely for ourselves. No Secret Realms for the Favored means they have to rely entirely on Fortunate encounters to juice their growth enough to make it affordable.
 
We literally no sold the Trials, Uri. By every objective metric we are obscenely far ahead of our expected population count right now. You're spouting stock phrases with no substance to them. You. Are. Wrong.
We don't need ahead we need our best. And if we didn't that doesn't change the fact that less casualties now benefits us more than less casualties later. Especially when we could delay it by various means.

So what, we've got the defenses we've already planted there. We've got the defenses I intend to have us set up there. And we have the defenses the the Yuan Clan will gladly coordinate with us in the defense of their homes and cities. There is deck stacking, and then there is literally playing with the pigeon in an 18-wheeler with bulletproof windshields.
And manual is still injured, you're sending our top hitter our most valuable piece on the fucking board on a risky mission, you might've stacked the deck but its an unnecessary risk when he can be substituted by our other nascent souls.

The sooner the invasion is scared off, the sooner these issues you're oh-so-concerned about...Simply cease to exist.
I don't care how soon or late the invasion lasts that's not the point, risking manual when we absolutely don't need to, when he's injured and receives a combat penalty is a dumb fucking move.

Insisting we don't when the numbers are literally right there - staring us in the face - doesn't make it any less true Uri. Sorry. It's a shame, but that's all it is.
I see instead of attacking the argument you attack me, I already talked about the numbers (both with and without the formations) in the same post as you replied to in fact (and the one before it).

And my conclusion?

We. don't. have. The. Fucking. Numbers.

Even at the best reading of our nascent soul strength we require all of our allies and a giant fucking fortress (per your plan) and we still don't match old cannibal faction.

Not to fucking raise the entire place to the ground.

And attempting too will see our nascent slaughtered and used as food the blood path.

Did you not read anything I said?
Yes, yes I did and I disagree with just about all of it, your entire plan relies on strength we don't have, has to go exactly to plan or we're screwed.

Your plan is to march into the former abyssal bee territory raze it to the fucking ground and hop that old cannibal doesn't have some trick or falls on us like a hammer.
 
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Staff Notice -- Please treat your posts in a quest as an opportunity to engage and immerse with the material, rather than snipe at other questers. -Apocal
We don't need ahead we need our best
...More empty phrases, really?

You're so badly misinformed about everything regarding Old Cannibals circumstances that theres straight up no point in arguing with you.

Come back after you've refreshed your memory if you still want to insist on this
 
...More empty phrases, really?

You're so badly misinformed about everything regarding Old Cannibals circumstances that theres straight up no point in arguing with you.

Come back after you've refreshed your memory if you still want to insist on this
I see you continue with attacking me rather than the argument. (you completely ignored the second fucking half of the what you quted and the reast of the post). Do you perhaps see the future perhaps and so you know exactly how old cannibal will react.

Perhaps you're a co QM and OCCI shared with you his plans for old cannibal.

No? then do share what information you have, that I don't that makes your plan more than utter lunacy that will get all of our nascent souls killed?.
 
I see you continue with attacking me rather than the argument
Attack, huh.


Wasn't old fish the early? I remember that both of the blood paths from the former bee sect were mid?
This is a pretty important thing to get wrong when talking about Old Cannibals capabilities

It's so blatantly and easily provable to be wrong that it straight up calls into question every other assumption you've made on this subject and thus theres no way to seriously have a discussion with you when theres a legitimate chance you think Old Cannibal has Eagle Lord as a subordinate, or that hes Actually Still Mid Nascent Soul.

And then you base your arguments against me on these unvoiced, incorrect assumptions

So no, its not an insult. You're just making up stuff and throwing it out as rebuttals. I'm doing you a favor, here, by telling you to address your entirely understandable situation due to the length of the hiatus.

But until you do, theres no meaning in arguing with one another because...I have no idea if you're not just making up things from thin air. Theres no way to guarantee good faith when you're knowingly, objectively wrong.

And I don't want to waste my time or energy getting frustrated playing along with whatever game you're aiming for by doubling down on this nonsense. So take a break. Reread the quest. And when you actually know what you're talking about, we'll revisit this argument if you still want to have it.
 
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Ideally, we're basically going to force Old Cannibal to focus entirely on the RP by denying him the logistical capacity to invade the desert, as well as set things up where we can secure Qiguai entirely for ourselves. No Secret Realms for the Favored means they have to rely entirely on Fortunate encounters to juice their growth enough to make it affordable.
Ah so blocking them by denying them secret realms to accelerate there growth and by having the Old Cannibal focus on them ok that makes reasonable amount of sense.

Another question but what does RP stand for?
 
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That is still less than 1 late 3 mid and 1 early, especially when attacking on their ground and especially when utilizing formation when the battle might shift enough form then to no longer be usable.

This is not matching them, this is a force that with the help of being on the defensive could drive them off with large casualties then counter attack into their lands.

Wasn't old fish the early? I remember that both of the blood paths from the former bee sect were mid?
Please refer to the Nascent list, but here's the breakdown of all Nascents available to OC:
- Old Cannibal (Late)
- Gengxin the Poison Mistress (Early)
- Xinyue the Bee Queen (Early)
- Old Fish (Mid)
- Bloodhammer (Mid)
- Hu Ai (Mid)

That makes 1 Late, 3 Mid, 2 Early for the Bees. I've listed how we can have 1 Late, 1 Mid, 2 Early already.

If you're following so far, that leaves 2 enemy Mids unaccounted for, except that Hu Ai would be unusable since Altar Lord wants the Clan to succeed, and Old Fish hates Cannibal's guts and will actively want to kill him. So that means Cannibal is left with 1 Late, 1 Mid, 2 Early in the end too. And That's before considering however many Nascents are left behind to defend their Plains territory.
 
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Chron's plan is risky, yes, and I think that the estimation of our forces on the attack is overly optimistic, at least into Nascent Souls. Especially given that the core formation will be vastly less maneuverable compared to an Early NS, and that our anti-late formation will still likely be solo than OC. That said, Chron is right that if OC commits everything against us, he opens himself for a massive reaming by the RP, and that's IF The Altar Lord does not recall his apprentice, and the loose Plains NS don't decide that with the Wolf away, the foxes can play.

As For Yuan? There are at LEAST 3 NS attacking and one fully committing to a death or glory assault in the Ma Emperor. The Trial Lord is badly injured and isn't going to be in shape to fight. Which means we need all hands on deck. Nascents included. We could conceivably four load into the Yuan, but we really really do need to poke the Blood Oaks, who have that tree that can brush into Spirit severing, and frankly doubling up is not only a good idea, but necessary if the Blood mists did the worst.

I have severe misgivings about the Twilight retribution attempting to displace a peak NS bee queen, but this part of the plan is sound enough.
 
Can Bloodhammer be affected by a droplet of Rust and Ruin?

Hu Ai might be allowed to fight if only to have her gain fighting experience against 'equals'. I think Old Fish can be relied upon to fuck over OC at the worst time, but what about Bloodhammer?
 
Chron's plan is risky, yes, and I think that the estimation of our forces on the attack is overly optimistic, at least into Nascent Souls. Especially given that the core formation will be vastly less maneuverable compared to an Early NS, and that our anti-late formation will still likely be solo than OC.
The formation of Core Elders would be deployed alongside the Nascent-level Flying Fortress (called the 'WTF') for power projection and maneuvering, alongside the Chrysocolla Paints legacy that lets them defend against Nascent attacks. We're going to stack all of our available buffs on that roaming Fortress to raid in-force which should at least match whatever Cannibal splits to defend against us - all to set up an opportunity to use the Implacable Chant and permanently ruin their Devil Bee production.

Can Bloodhammer be affected by a droplet of Rust and Ruin?
Unlikely for Bloodhammer to be using the exact same cultivation method that Weeping Anvil was using, especially after he turned to Blood Path.
 
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