Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

[occipitallobe]

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[GlassOlive]

Do we? I'd be interested in seeing those.

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Occipitallobe's response (on discord) to having Yao administer/rule territories under Golden Devil control:

It's realistic perhaps as a diplomatic fig leaf. You're not going to get Yao Zhihao to rule a territory in person, but it's theoretically possible to get her to rule one in name as a favour. In practice this would mean Golden Devil administrators, civilians, etc, etc, etc all of whom were "guest elders" for the Flood Dragons. It wouldn't make a difference against a Righteous Path not in the middle of a desperate set of battles at all, but against one that really needs the Spirit Stones to flow and is facing a major threat? Maybe.

In a time of Righteous Strength the answer would be a major coalition boiling across the mountains and putting the Devils into the ground permanently.

In a time of weakness, they would probably find massive bribery plus a plausible reason to ignore the conquest sufficient.

That does, however, presuppose a short victorious war which is over by Christmas, so to speak. If the Jingshen War became a boiling mess which bogged down Spirit Stone supply for many decades, the Righteous Path might see redeploying Nascents to open the Scorpion Road back up and secure their supplies a necessity.

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So ideally, we'd maybe have a short stockpile of spirit stones we use to keep the supply as the Jingshen cut off their spirit stone mines in a desperate attempt to come out on top, and see it as an investment when we're almost guaranteed to win the war.

 

[adamashield]

While not entire relevant. this one probably help too.

This was a Triumph. I can see a note from Elder Sheng saying he thinks it's a "huge success", and is very pleased. The Fearless Line is likely to be re-established, and I suspect the view any Righteous Path power might have as to invading and seizing Golden Devil cities has been set back an immense amount.

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Because this was (probably) before them becoming aware of the devils having two NS and the spear.

edit: these are cultivator factions, is like trying to direct cats, cats with demon blood, sapient lvl of intelligence, opositores fingers and that can also cultivate. So yeah what ever force them to open a second front now instead of when the great era power truly show itself. I would say that looking at the OP/bullshit lvls of the kings is already a good example of 'yeah, I don't want to fight those guys'. edit3: grammar and wording.

 

[fictionfan]

Yeah, but there is a huge difference in narrative between :

"The Flood Dragons have taken the territories Jingshen got ceded in the Cannibal war and the neigboring vassals use the occasion to throw of the woke of the Jingshen and Join the Flood Dragons."

AND

"The Golden Devils have proven we can't trust them, they used the ecclosion of a second front in the war in the plains to stab us in the back, destroy a whole Righteous faction and kill two allied Nascent Souls."

Having Jingshen's core territories would be nice, but it's two much to pay for the huge diplomatic cost. Let's not forget that even with scenario 1, we can still get the New Territories, the vassals AND the tribulation treasures. Let's not forget that there is a SPS Nascent Soul in the Oasis. If he decides to be a meathead and interveene when we invade the Core territories under our own banners things have so much potential to degenerate and hand the Blood Path victory.

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A collation needs far less resources and is much easier to organize if the Jingshen still exist. If we allow Old Jingshen and his daughter to stick around you can just bet that they will be heavily agitating for a collation that just isn't the case if we get rid of them. Also if they are still there that is two less nascents that a collation needs to organize.

Machiavelli put it well "Never deal an enemy a small injury".

 

[Sparsebeard]

Occipitallobe's response (on discord) to having Yao administer/rule territories under Golden Devil control:

So ideally, we'd maybe have a short stockpile of spirit stones we use to keep the supply as the Jingshen cut off their spirit stone mines in a desperate attempt to come out on top, and see it as an investment when we're almost guaranteed to win the war.

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This was NOT a quote about launching a war of annihilation against Jingshen, the subject was "having Yao administer/rule territories under Golden Devil control" not taking all of Jingshen and giving some away to the FD.

Hell, the whole point of the post was saying that is we wanted to take land from Jingshen without ending up coalitionned, limiting our gains and having the Flood Dragons take the land in name was a viable option to reduce aggro by giving the SPS sect a fig leaf.

From your very quote :

In a time of weakness, they would probably find massive bribery plus a plausible reason to ignore the conquest sufficient.

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They need a plausible reason to ignore the conquest. As long as we take land ourselves and destroy the Jingshen utterly, that justification doesn't exist.

 

[no.]

Bro, all we gotta do is kill them so fast the Righteous Powers can't do anything. What do they do then? Give up on having any spirit stones at all? In the middle of a war? They'll instantly starve themselves. They will have no choice but to accept, and the favors we've given the Strength Purity Sect will make it go down easier. We can even bribe them more if we have to.

An SV quest protagonist's greatest enemy is a problem with a simple solution, because it gives them the opportunity to think their way out of success.

 

[Garlak]

To be fair, even aside from the Spirit Stones thing, I think the Righteous Powers would be at least a little bit alarmed if we suddenly totally wiped out a Righteous Power and slew their Nascent Souls. Even if nobody really likes the Jingshen, they probably would be displeased about another Righteous Clan going under.

They just might be willing to overlook it, for sufficient Spirit Stone bribes or war support or something.

 

[Sparsebeard]

Like bro, all we gotta do is kill them so fast the Righteous Powers can't do anything. What do they do then? Give up on having any spirit stones at all? In the middle of a war? They'll instantly starve themselves. They will have no choice but to accept, and the favors we've given the Strength Purity Sect will make it go down easier. We can even bribe them more if we have to.

An SV quest protagonist's greatest enemy is a problem with a simple solution, because it gives them the option to think their way out of success.

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Killing Nascent Souls is hard, even with a massive advantage. Especially Old Monsters on their own ground who probably have tons of contingencies and life saving treasures.

Just kill them 4head seem pretty optimistic.

 

[no.]

Killing Nascent Souls is hard, even with a massive advantage. Especially Old Monsters on their own ground who probably have tons of contingencies and life saving treasures.

Just kill them 4head seem pretty optimistic.

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Not the Nascents; everybody else. Even if the Jingshen Nascents hold their own, they definitely won't be able to have an advantage. So in a stalemate at worst, winning battle at best, our dudes can just roll their dudes.

 

[fictionfan]

Not the Nascents; everybody else. Even if the Jingshen Nascents hold their own, they definitely won't be able to have an advantage. So in a stalemate at worst, winning battle at best, our dudes can just roll their dudes.

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We might manage it. They don't know about the spear and that sort of surprised can well take people by surprise.

 

[xpentakill]

I still don't get why Jin muyi had to die? What roll did he fail?

 

[Swordomatic]

I still don't get why Jin muyi had to die? What roll did he fail?

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Mochinator is bowing out of GS, so he spent all of Jin Muyi's impact on something that would provide the Clan the maximum benefit as a last hurrah

 

[no.]

Mochinator is bowing out of GS, so he spent all of Jin Muyi's impact on something that would provide the Clan the maximum benefit as a last hurrah

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Not only that, he also spent Muyi's life itself to enhance the action even further. It was quite a potent result.

 

[Gore17]

Bro, all we gotta do is kill them so fast the Righteous Powers can't do anything. What do they do then? Give up on having any spirit stones at all? In the middle of a war? They'll instantly starve themselves. They will have no choice but to accept, and the favors we've given the Strength Purity Sect will make it go down easier. We can even bribe them more if we have to.

An SV quest protagonist's greatest enemy is a problem with a simple solution, because it gives them the opportunity to think their way out of success.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, even aside from the Spirit Stones thing, I think the Righteous Powers would be at least a little bit alarmed if we suddenly totally wiped out a Righteous Power and slew their Nascent Souls. Even if nobody really likes the Jingshen, they probably would be displeased about another Righteous Clan going under.

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Something I'll note is that Spirit Stone prices are higher then they would be, because they have to pay us a toll to transport them through our lands. So we can actually reduce prices(making buying from us an easier/more pleasant pill to swallow) while still making more then we did before.

 

[TehChron]

Yeah, but there is a huge difference in narrative between

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The argument itself hasnt changed.

Let's save it for the Council Vote which I believe will settle it in a manner we can all be satisfied with.

Nice.

And.

Fairly.

 

[Gore17]

Also, @Mochinator, I'd been planning to ask if Muyi would be okay with "mentoring" Pleuron, in the form of further rebuilding and making a shrine for those who'd given their lives to protect Pleuron and it's inhabitants in the past. The first is... not happening, but would the second be okay, since it seems Muyi has some time before dying for real?

Perfectly fine for it not happen, just to be clear.

 

[TehChron]

Let's not forget that there is a SPS Nascent Soul in the Oasis. I

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Also this isnt a thing.

I'd wish youd stop citing misinformation

 

[fictionfan]

Not the Nascents; everybody else. Even if the Jingshen Nascents hold their own, they definitely won't be able to have an advantage. So in a stalemate at worst, winning battle at best, our dudes can just roll their dudes.

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I don't think so. This isn't like Old Cannibal who cared about his sect as a tool. For Old Jingshen the Jingshen clan is his literally family he isn't going to run in the face of complete ruination if he thinks he has any chance of winning. If we go for deep conquest killing or at least heavily wounding the nascents is part of that.

 

[Catpetter1981]

Seems like we have a Chidori Kakashi Pleuron on our hands. Is there any way we could get them a city-sized eye-patch and implant their team-mate's eyeball into Pleuron's (civil construction equivalent of) eye-socket ?

Pleuron
Damaged and hiding in a cave, the spirit had a stroke of inspiration, and found that the remnants of Heavenly Will that still remained on it could be transferred to small array-inscribed cannons it created from the scraps available in the area and attached to its fingers, granting it the capability to use the captured lightning as a weapon. (+6 Impact). While it wouldn't be enough to deal with the Beetle, Pleuron managed to use the new treasure in order to accelerate its escape by shooting lightning bolts backwards for thrust.

In the Heavenly Bandit Kingdoms, Pleuron used its newfound control of lightning to impress many of the pigmen in the place they call the Village Hidden in the Mesa, who were astounded to see such a master of the Lightning Style. One particularly poetic pigman compared the sound of the technique to the chirping of a thousand birds. Despite their usual secrecy, a few, disguised as humans, decided to join into one of the Devil-sponsored bandit cells.

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[TheCount]

Yin Muyi, that pillar like tree that shielded the juniors in his shade and gave them an example to strive towards. A man who gave everything he had for the clan he loved and which loved him in return. You have grown on us.

You will be missed.

 

[Katana1515]

Its been a wild ride @Mochinator. Your seed has been defined by his willingness to give it all for the Clan since the very begining, I can see no more fitting end.

Let no legionnaire ever forget the immortal words. "Protect the weak against the evil strong."

Also, can I start a petition to formally dub the new uberweapon the 'Muyi Spear'?

 

[Olivebirdy]

Having Jingshen's core territories would be nice, but it's two much to pay for the huge diplomatic cost.

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It is absolutely not too much to pay. Jingshen is as wealthy as any five plains sects put together. That's the ability to support a lot of Nascents. Add to that the pile of treasures Jingshen has, we'd be able to quickly balloon in power. With just the vassal territories, we'd be lucky to be able to support four. With the entire desert? Ruthlessly suppressing my optimism, we'd be able to support seven. Absolutely worth it. With formations, our Nascents become much more powerful when there's more of them.

If we don't get the treasure pile, then yeah we're a bit fucked, we won't have the difficulty of setting aside enough Nascents to beat ours set high enough.

I do have to contend with the fact that being able to raise up to four Nascents and support 'seven' isn't much better than having four Nascents, but with the Jingshen money we'd be able to set up some pretty good defenses as well.

@occipitallobe Quick question, how many Early Nascent Souls in formation would we need to equal a Great Circle Nascent Soul?

 

[GlassOlive]

This was NOT a quote about launching a war of annihilation against Jingshen, the subject was "having Yao administer/rule territories under Golden Devil control" not taking all of Jingshen and giving some away to the FD.

Hell, the whole point of the post was saying that is we wanted to take land from Jingshen without ending up coalitionned, limiting our gains and having the Flood Dragons take the land in name was a viable option to reduce aggro by giving the SPS sect a fig leaf.

They need a plausible reason to ignore the conquest. As long as we take land ourselves and destroy the Jingshen utterly, that justification doesn't exist.

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I was referring to the plausible reason as 'ceding' territory to Yao and the Flood Dragons. So we 'aren't taking the land ourselves' as our plausible reason. Essentially we try to frame it as taking down the Jingshen due to their unprovoked attack against Aretephilia and Yao, but we understand the Righteous Path concerns (aka we don't want to get smashed) and so are ceding the land to Yao, as someone who we have good relations with, trust as a paragon of the Righteous Path, and as reparations since she got attacked.

YMMV on how believable that is, but given the boost in our combat strength, the help we gave in the siege, and the Demonic Altar Lord planning on ramping things up, it should hopefully be enough - and this is pretty clearly going to be our best chance, even though there is some risk.

 

[Gore17]

Seems like we have a Chidori Kakashi Pleuron on our hands. Is there any way we could get them a city-sized eye-patch and implant their team-mate's eyeball into Pleuron's (civil construction equivalent of) eye-socket ?

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...I was hoping no one would point that out.

It is absolutely not too much to pay. Jingshen is as wealthy as any five plains sects put together. That's the ability to support a lot of Nascents. Add to that the pile of treasures Jingshen has, we'd be able to quickly balloon in power. With just the vassal territories, we'd be lucky to be able to support four. With the entire desert? Ruthlessly suppressing my optimism, we'd be able to support seven. Absolutely worth it. With formations, our Nascents become much more powerful when there's more of them.

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Eh, maybe. The Plains don't rely on wealth/spirit stones to power their Nascents, so "wealthy as five plains sects" doesn't automatically equate to "support a lot of Nascents".

Also, double-checking, it's not "they're as wealthy as five plains sects", it's "Their Spirit Stone mines are as rich as any five Sects in the plains", which I believe means they can mine up amount equal to 5 biggest suppliers of Spirit Stone in the plains.

 

[TehChron]

We've played every card possible to give us the opening we need to move on the Jingshen clan next turn.

Our two Triumphs this turn mean we'll have a much easier time invading straight through the Jingshen's Core territories, and that the Righteous Path powers will hesitate to move against us in the near future as a coalition to punish us should we succeed in wiping out the Jingshen.

We also represent the only realistic option to project force at trying to contain the Devil Bees. Should we succeed in taking out the Jingshen Nascent Souls within the next two turns, we'll be hold a monopoly on the Spirit Stone trade for long enough to matter. A bribe and an offer to move against the Bees should be sufficient to get the Righteous Powers off our back.

The Fig Leaf of the situation with Jiao attacking Yao should enough to serve as a cassus belli.

We have a lot of negotiable options to get the Righteous Path to leave us be while they lick their wounds from this 9th Demon Annihilating War.

 

[Sirrocco]

I, too, am concerned about the reaction of the Righteous Powers to us flattening the Jingshen but... honestly, if we're going to do it, this is the time. They're still invested in the war with the Demonic Altar sect, and that war is not going to go well for the demonics. They still have to deal with the Devil Bees, who have not yet turned their eyes to us. They've just been reminded of what a terrible idea it is to attack us on reinforced ground. We have three Nascents, and the foe, for the moment, has two.

If we do not remove the Jingshen Nascents from their land, they will always be a severe threat on multiple fronts forever. If we remove them, but leave Jiao alive, she is guaranteed to be able to rouse up a coalition against us. If we kill Jiao, but leave Old Jingshen, just driving him out... that might work? Killing him off entirely is the safer bet, though.

...and if Manuel, who's known as a sneaky bastard, suddenly out of nowhere demonstrates that he can straight-up execute someone who was previously thought of as a peer, that will give the others reason to feel concern, and perhaps...

Prince Cadram: Well, Mr Samuel, when I raise my hand, the men behind me will cut you d-
71-Hour Ahmed: I will cut down the first man that moves.
Prince Cadram: Then the second man that moves will kill you, traitor!
Captain Carrot: (Drawing sword) They'll have to move very fast.
Commander Vimes: Any volunteers to be the third man? Anyone?

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Well, the other Nascents might not be eager to volunteer for the honor of being the third man.

Of course, much of this depends on our ability to convince them that we're not going to turn around and come for them next... but this is absolutely the best time to do this thing, and I think it's a thing that needs to be done.

Eh, maybe. The Plains don't rely on wealth/spirit stones to power their Nascents, so "wealthy as five plains sects" doesn't automatically equate to "support a lot of Nascents".

Also, double-checking, it's not "they're as wealthy as five plains sects", it's "Their Spirit Stone mines are as rich as any five Sects in the plains", which I believe means they can mine up amount equal to 5 biggest suppliers of Spirit Stone in the plains.

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If you count up their Nascents, and our Nascents...

Admittedly, it's not quite that straightforward, as we'd still have to contend with the remnants of our curse, and we wouldnt' have whatever Stewardship buff Old Jingshen got for being a Stewardship-focused Nascent, but even so... and on the flip side, the Jingshen lose a lot of cash in their various struggles with us, and our sabotages, and so forth.