Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

[occipitallobe]

Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

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If you write a new Good Seed, or write an omake, please update the spreadsheet if you have access.

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This is mandatory. If a Good Seed does not record their omake by pinging collabs (or just requesting access and editing things themselves - this is the preferred option), I won't give out awards. If a new Good Seed is not recorded here, they won't advance. By doing this it makes the whole thing manageable for me - it's gotten pretty unwieldy!

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Omake Writer Instructions:

There are four fields you need to fill out.

Omake Link, which is just a link to your first omake for the turn. This makes it easier for me to read them as I do the update - without this it's tough to know off the bat which omake were written this turn, and to properly

Requested Bonus, which is your requested bonus for your omake. You can leave it up to me if you like. You can see more info in the Good Seed infopost here.

Cultivation Aims. For those following unorthodox paths - higher than 9th Heavenstage or later than 7th Dao Pillar paths. Please put in what you are aiming for before you break through. I have left it as 'default'. If you do not edit it, I'll go with that.

Turn Notes - Do you want to do something specific? Enter a Secret Realm? Help the Clan out in some way? If you have something specific you want to accomplish on this turn, put it in turn notes so I can adjust your Fate around it.

All other fields are for QM use to record character information to properly run the flow of the game.

 

[ReaderOfFate]

I salute you Jin Muyi, Hero of the Clan. You will be remembered.

(And OOC, @Mochinator, it's been a fun time. I hope you liked the dramatic finale!)

 

[LordEdric]

You know, if I ever want to give up on Magnus, I will make sure we finish my super base, before the end

 

[Insane-Not-Crazy]

That is the ultimate outcome. The Stone Spear is an immensely powerful weapon - not as compatible with Manuel as it was with Jin Shin, but it sets his combat performance to the peak of Mid Nascent Soul. While using the Stone Spear, he will be the third-strongest cultivator in the region, though not as domineering as Altar Lord or the Wei Princess.

Click to shrink...

In the Underworld Spirit Palace, Old Jingshen felt a chill touch his soul. His home is about to become his unwitting cairn

 

[Algalon]

Starting to seriously get worried about Manuel's mental state.

It's been established in the info posts how important it is for a cultivator to be in harmony with their Dao, and how deviation can lead to Bad ThingsTM.

The previous sacrifices, such as Kleisthenes's Sister and the Core Elders, and the many, many Foundation and Qi Condensation Cultivator's who were left to die during the quest's first trial so the Clan could focus on maximizing the Good Seed's survival chances, all these were for a greater cause. As far as Manuel can see, this time the Shadow of Heaven's Will decided that sacrificing one of the Clan's hopes for the future was a bargain price for what he is unlikely to see as more than a neat spear (no matter how wrong that assessment may be).

Invading the Jingshen might actually be a far more necessary venture than expected. If Manuel doesn't get the necessary mileage out of the spear to make Jin Muyi's death justifiable he might start doubting the Shadow.

 

[no.]

That's incredibly momentous. Not just in the department of massively saving on opportunity cost, but the sheer combat power is astronomical, changing many situations by quite a lot.

The fact that it's a weapon instead of an ability is also great, because it means Manuel could potentially pass the spear on to a successor if he got mortally wounded, rather than this advantage being gone upon his death.

And, of course, farewell to Jin Muyi. You were a true man to the end.

 

[Garlak]

Starting to seriously get worried about Manuel's mental state.

It's been established in the info posts how important it is for a cultivator to be in harmony with their Dao, and how deviation can lead to Bad ThingsTM.

The previous sacrifices, such as Kleisthenes's Sister and the Core Elders, and the many, many Foundation and Qi Condensation Cultivator's who were left to die during the quest's first trial so the Clan could focus on maximizing the Good Seed's survival chances, all these were for a greater cause. As far as Manuel can see, this time the Shadow of Heaven's Will decided that sacrificing one of the Clan's hopes for the future was a bargain price for what he is unlikely to see as more than a neat spear (no matter how wrong that assessment may be).

Invading the Jingshen might actually be a far more necessary venture than expected. If Manuel doesn't get the necessary mileage out of the spear to make Jin Muyi's death justifiable he might start doubting the Shadow.

Click to shrink...

Though, your point about Manuel's Dao potentially being shaken is still true, I don't think it's because Heaven's Shadow gutpunched him, but because it failed.

I don't think Heaven's Shadow let this happen, calculating the cost utilitarianly:

This continued. Manuel brought out a talisman of fire, capable of burning a city to nothing. Ji Shin walked through it like it was merely a pleasant breeze, another stab wounding his arm. Manuel raised up a shard of mysterious ice, capable of freezing all flesh near it, but the spear blocked it once more. He exerted the will of Shadow itself upon it, seeking the threads of Fate he could now follow ever-so-slightly, but found in fear there were no threads leading to Muyi. No threads leading away. A simple hole in the world.

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I think it just... failed.

It just... could not see Ji Shin. It could not see the "a secret only one person at a time knows" because, well, its nature was to be a secret that only one person at a time knows. And then on top of that, Ji Shin was like "a hole in the world" which meant that it couldn't see his possession coming.

I think the mistake Manuel made is this: just as sometimes even a guardian angel could use a guardian angel? Sometimes, even a blindspot has a blindspot of its own.

Manuel trusted in the Shadow of Heaven. From a philosophical and quasi-religious perspective even. Because in his philosophy -- his variant to his Dao which let him break through to Nascent Soul -- he had come to the conclusion of "Even Heaven has a blindspot. That blindspot is the 'shadow' of Heaven." And that made him forget the possibility that even a blindspot... can have a blindspot.

That blindspot can range from "Anything that Heaven is unaware of, Heaven's Shadow would also be blind to" to "Some things might be able to avoid notice by Heaven's Shadow specifically/particularly. Heck, maybe even the Heavens could hide stuff from Heaven's Shadow."


I think, ironically, that realizing the fallibility of Heaven's Shadow will help restore any potential lost faith. If anything, he might be kicking himself over the realization -- of course. Of course Heaven's Shadow would itself be blind to anything that the Heavens are blind to! How could I have forgotten that?

... As a downside, it might make him more paranoid or less trusting. >< Because what if that means that now he can't be sure of just scanning everybody and getting all their secrets?

 

[jjffjhjf]

So Manuel has chefs spear now?

 

[ReaderOfFate]

You know, becoming the third strongest Nascent in the region, and the first strongest Mid Nascent has some massive implications with our war with Jingshen.

Earlier, there was a bit of worry around them busting for Four Nascents as a last resort sort of thing, but with the Spear? Things are a lot different.

For reference, Alexios was stated in Discord to be able to take Old Jingshen and Jiao at the same time if he was alive. We are currently stronger than Alexios, so Manuel could do the same, and potentially even take one more Nascent but I'll assume only two for now.

With the Mid and the Early tied up, Yao and Kleisthenes would be able to mop up the two completely new Nascents.

It'd take some effort, but our ability to deal with Jingshen going "Three Nascent Plan? Fuck that, here comes Four Nascents!" is now far superior. Previously, our plan in such an occasion would be to turtle back at the Dawn Fortress and use the Late Nascent Will alongside Manuel, Kleisthenes and Yao to keep them away. We would then have to wait them out as Jingshen territories cannot support that number of Nascents, so they would simply lose their cultivation in time. When they would, we'd strike back.

It'd have worked, but it'd have been terrifically bloody, as you can imagine, since a fight between that many Nascents in our core territories to boot is the sort of thing that causes intense collateral damage.

So Manuel has chefs spear now?

Click to shrink...

He has a spear that Soup Chef used in three battles, yes, but calling it his official Spear may be too generous.

It is one of them, at least. And even then, it is an extraordinary artifact. The Will of the Chef isn't something to be underestimated.

 

[Taut_Templar]

Learning that something powerful enough to fool Heaven is also strong enough to no-sell Heaven's Shadow is a shocking blow, but in retrospect makes perfect sense. There's no such thing as a truly "Outside Context Ability," I suppose, no matter how much one might wish it.

 

[fictionfan]

Now we have the possiblity of a short victorious war where we quickly kill all the Jingshen nascents and steal their two tribulation treasures that we immediately use meaning that at the end we have 5 nascents.

If we attack strong and hard before they even consider using those treasures.

 

[ReaderOfFate]

The threads of Fate are something that restricts those bound by the limits of the (Turtle) World.

(EDIT: For instance, World Fusion can see the entire web of Fate. However, World Fusion exists within the bounds of the Will of this particular realm, as they've dedicated themselves to enforcing it. Threefold Revival, on the other hand, stands above, and as I doubt that World Fusion can decree Fate for them, Threefold Revival is very likely above (this) Fate. There's a bit more evidence to the claim, like Occipitallobe saying in Discord that the Dao was the only thing that could escape the bonds of Karma and Fate, and a cultivator of that stature would have a tremendously developed Dao.)

I'm almost certain that Heaven's Shadow is at least Threefold Revival tier, as it originated from a time before the decline of the SCA, when they first entered. Therefore, scrying something that is disconnected from this particular Heaven's weave of Fate should be very much in its capabilities.

It's just Manuel, as a Nascent, naturally can't see that deep himself with his control of the Shadow.

Of course, this is speculation, just like the notion that Ji Shin no sold Heaven's Shadow, but given that the Shadow was correct in its estimate, I'm a bit more inclined towards it having been able to predict Ji Shin's actions.

 

[Garlak]

Now we have the possiblity of a short victorious war where we quickly kill all the Jingshen nascents and steal their two tribulation treasures that we immediately use meaning that at the end we have 5 nascents.

If we attack strong and hard before they even consider using those treasures.

Click to shrink...

The question now becomes how to make sure we win in a way that doesn't draw down heat on us from the Righteous Path, basically. (If we go too hard on dominating the desert, killing Jingshen Nascents and quickly raising multiple Nascent Souls ourselves, it's going to panic the Righteous Powers. But how much is too much?) How hard do we want to win, how much do we risk, how much do we reveal, what stratagems and tricks do we use to obscure our newfound boon, etc?

I for one am amused at the thought of repeating our oldest trick once more:

He flared his own cultivation to early Nascent Soul level.

"Elder Nikephoros Theophylaktos, Golden Devil Clan. What are you doing here, Cannibal scum?"

The man seethed visibly.

"Blood Elder Child Corpse Gulper. I'll kill you for this insult. I'll kill you, then these mortals, too."

Click to shrink...

I call it Plan: Elder Nikephoros Rides Again! Have Manuel Disguise Himself As Kleisthenes So Everybody Thinks Kleisthenes Is The One With The Super Spear.

Alternatively, we could try to fool people into thinking the spear can only be used 3 times, or only once, or whatnot. But anyway, that sort of trickery is going to be up to Manuel rather than up to us. We the players make more narrative-level decisions rather than 'how to win a fight?' level decisions.

(Well that, or, if we choose to keep the spear hidden away as a secret trump card against Old Cannibal, but that seems a bit dangerous because we can lose a lot in the Jingshen Nascentbowl if we keep it in reserve.)

 

[no.]

We just have to conquer the entire Jingshen territory before the war up north is over. We can do that reliably now. The situation will be "You can't stop us from doing this, because we already did it. You could come down and take revenge, or we could keep the spirit stone market functioning as usual. Your choice."

 

[ReaderOfFate]

It's realistic perhaps as a diplomatic fig leaf. You're not going to get Yao Zhihao to rule a territory in person, but it's theoretically possible to get her to rule one in name as a favour. In practice this would mean Golden Devil administrators, civilians, etc, etc, etc all of whom were "guest elders" for the Flood Dragons. It wouldn't make a difference against a Righteous Path not in the middle of a desperate set of battles at all, but against one that really needs the Spirit Stones to flow and is facing a major threat? Maybe.

In a time of Righteous Strength the answer would be a major coalition boiling across the mountains and putting the Devils into the ground permanently.

In a time of weakness, they would probably find massive bribery plus a plausible reason to ignore the conquest sufficient.

That does, however, presuppose a short victorious war which is over by Christmas, so to speak. If the Jingshen War became a boiling mess which bogged down Spirit Stone supply for many decades, the Righteous Path might see redeploying Nascents to open the Scorpion Road back up and secure their supplies a necessity.

Click to shrink...

For reference, this was Occi's reply to having the Flood Dragons administer the captured territories to avoid Righteous reprisal.

Now that we have overwhelming combat strength, a short victorious war (which was mentioned to be required to pull this off) is actually rather plausible.

 

[TehChron]

We just have to conquer the entire Jingshen territory before the war up north is over. We can do that reliably now. The situation will be "You can't stop us from doing this, because we already did it. You could come down and take revenge, or we could keep the spirit stone market functioning as usual. Your choice."

Click to shrink...

This is genuinely correct.

A modification to the 0previous plan where "Manuel engages enemy Nascents" means that an optimal and domineering result is now...plausible

Bitter to see tho, @Mochinator

 

[fictionfan]

The question now becomes how to make sure we win in a way that doesn't draw down heat on us from the Righteous Path, basically. (If we go too hard on dominating the desert, killing Jingshen Nascents and quickly raising multiple Nascent Souls ourselves, it's going to panic the Righteous Powers. But how much is too much?) How hard do we want to win, how much do we risk, how much do we reveal, what stratagems and tricks do we use to obscure our newfound boon, etc?

Click to shrink...

If the war actually goes that well and we have 5 nascents at the end of it then the Rightous powers plain would not be able to send enough heat against us to matter without basically declaring defeat against the NDA. We don't need that big a fig leaf to prevent them from commiting suicide.

 

[adamashield]

You know, if I ever want to give up on Magnus, I will make sure we finish my super base, before the end

Click to shrink...

Feel free to ping me and/or use the brotherhood as NPC. They would be eager to help any good seed. Much less one of the original 13/14°.

In a different note. Elder murdertree will be remember. And probably get a monument.

In another note. Hum we have numbers. We have a 'rogue' like old monster with a super weapon.

Something tell me that hunting for NS cores in the mountain just became really easier. Specially so because I can see a really big number of core elders being far more than just being willing to help in a formation to make a 4 vs one match.

 

[Sirrocco]

So the Hong Xuan lied about the Fire Spirit

In order to trick the Golden Devil's into failing so they would lose face and give them wealth.

We don't need blatant traitors as vassals, it's time for our nascent souls to do some triming. Let's see how upity the Hong Xuan are after we murder all their cores and take back the land we resently gifted them.

Click to shrink...

Dude. Give it a rest. You hate everyone who isn't us, and you want to consume the world. We get it. You don't have to keep giving the absolute worst possible interpretations on everything everyone else does forever, and then demanding that we commit atrocities as a result.

 

[Sparsebeard]

The fact that the clan is stronger shouldn't have to change our plans, only make them faster and less risky.

To me, destroying the Jingshen utterly isn't worth the fallout with the Righteous Path. Let's do a show of force, steal the treasures, then help the Flood Dragons take over the New Jingshen territories and the southern vassals.

Those territories probably aren't well defended yet so it might be possible to take it fast enough to put the Righteous Path before a fait accompli. At which point we can turn on the Devil Bees WITH the Righteous Path's help. If we are lucky, Old Cannibal or one of his students won't have outgrown Manuel yet...

I mean, we know that the Altar Lord sent help to Old Cannibal let's give the Bees as little time possible and let's not spite potential allies. Land is just as good if it comes from the Bees than if it comes from Jingshen.

Hell, we might even be able to get the Flood Dragons to just hold the land for a bit then "sell" it to us laster when tensions have lessened.

 

[Insane-Not-Crazy]

To me, destroying the Jingshen utterly isn't worth the fallout with the Righteous Path. Let's do a show of force, steal the treasures, then help the Flood Dragons take over the New Jingshen territories and the southern vassals

Click to shrink...

We should be able of pulling off that same fait accompli now
Edit: Your approach is a valid one, it's just that I'm more daring now with Manuel's upgrade.

 

[no.]

The fact that the clan is stronger shouldn't have to change our plans, only make them faster and less risky.

To me, destroying the Jingshen utterly isn't worth the fallout with the Righteous Path. Let's do a show of force, steal the treasures, then help the Flood Dragons take over the New Jingshen territories and the southern vassals.

Those territories probably aren't well defended yet so it might be possible to take it fast enough to put the Righteous Path before a fait accompli. At which point we can turn on the Devil Bees WITH the Righteous Path's help. If we are lucky, Old Cannibal or one of his students won't have outgrown Manuel yet...

I mean, we know that the Altar Lord sent help to Old Cannibal let's give the Bees as little time possible and let's not spite potential allies. Land is just as good if it comes from the Bees than if it comes from Jingshen.

Hell, we might even be able to get the Flood Dragons to just hold the land for a bit then "sell" it to us laster when tensions have lessened.

Click to shrink...

If this plan was wasteful before, it's a Vow of Poverty now.

Manuel is going to be winning against Old Jingshen; that changes everything. We might kill him early in the war, or make him 2v1 Manuel with Jiao. We can steamroll everything the Jingshen have in the timespan of a single turn. Even if they raise two brand new Nascents, we will have two combat-capable Early Nascents to meet them. They have NOTHING to contend against us with anymore.

No games. Let's just win. Obliterate them instantly, so fast the Righteous Powers won't have any choice but to accept us.

 

[adamashield]

To be fair a great age is coming, the trials probably still have some horrible twist, that I really wish can be avoid with our rogue old monster with a spear that don't miss (tokens).

there still many other old monster cards being played,

So I think that growing fast is something that the clans need in order to survive.

 

[Sparsebeard]

We should be able of pulling off that same fait accompli now

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but there is a huge difference in narrative between :

"The Flood Dragons have taken the territories Jingshen got ceded in the Cannibal war and the neigboring vassals use the occasion to throw of the woke of the Jingshen and Join the Flood Dragons."

AND

"The Golden Devils have proven we can't trust them, they used the ecclosion of a second front in the war in the plains to stab us in the back, destroy a whole Righteous faction and kill two allied Nascent Souls."

Having Jingshen's core territories would be nice, but it's two much to pay for the huge diplomatic cost. Let's not forget that even with scenario 1, we can still get the New Territories, the vassals AND the tribulation treasures. Let's not forget that there is a SPS Nascent Soul in the Oasis. If he decides to be a meathead and interveene when we invade the Core territories under our own banners things have so much potential to degenerate and hand the Blood Path victory.

 

[Insane-Not-Crazy]

The Golden Devils have proven we can't trust them, they used the ecclosion of a second front in the war in the plains to stab us in the back, destroy a whole Righteous faction and kill two allied Nascent Souls

Click to shrink...

I reason we're going all out is that we have some QM indicators that it's possible. Heavily expensive in concessions, requiring martial supremacy for speed and we'd likely have to give up some gains in Flood Dragons name but possible. Another thing is that this wouldn't be a backstabbing to any parties involved because there's been a low simmering conflict going in since we arrived in the Desert

 

[Sparsebeard]

I reason we're going all out is that we have some QM indicators that it's possible.

Click to shrink...

Do we? I'd be interested in seeing those.