Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

[occipitallobe]

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There are four fields you need to fill out.

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[no.]

The only way to progress in cultivation is to consume. I'm not just talking about Soup Chef. The only way to progress is to absorb greater and greater resources in some form, and it has been thus since before the Turtle Child was struck down.

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That's how it works everywhere. To put energy into something you have to take it from somewhere else. I know the laws of reality vary a bit between worlds but I highly doubt conservation of energy is unique to the Turtle World.

Rina's insight was something a little different than that, as I recall. Namely that all paths to cultivation power (including Blood Path but also the more orthodox ones) involve consuming something. The world may not have a Dao of Consumption, but Consumption does seem to be, in some sense, tied into the fundamental nature of this reality.

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Rina is a character written by a player. A player who does not know the whole lore. Her thoughts are not always canon, they're just things Rina thinks. And also see my statement above about COE.

 

[veekie]

Whoops, got busy and then a couple of days went poof.

TURN 11, OMAKE 10 [Lihua]
Lihua Kokkinos 5: Lipita Delphi & Lihua Kokkinos - Meeting Senior Cast in Metal ​

Sweltering in the heat of her workshop beneath protective leathers, Lipita stirred the thick mixture in the cauldron slowly and smoothly, keeping a steady hand to avoid an adverse reaction from the volatile solution she was preparing. She'd been fortunate to obtain reagents from Fire Tortoise at the Foundation Establishment realm for relatively cheap cost and it wouldn't do to ruin the potion now after adding in the painfully expensive Thousand-Year Ginseng. This particular recipe was fairly unusual in composition which was not surprising considering the unique nature of its source. Lipita's mind flashed back to her first meeting with senior Lihua Kokkinos.

---------------

Lipita looked on in awe with rapt concentration. It wasn't every day you got to meet a person made from living metal. Elemental Body bloodlines were rare and precious in the Virtuous Flipper Region and among them the Blood of Bronze was top tier. Optimatoi who had the Blood were stronger, tougher, and more resilient than ordinary cultivators with mundane flesh. With increased cultivation and greater bloodline purity, the effects of the elemental alignment only grew more pronounced. Verdigris covered metallic skin and dense bones ground against each other in joint sockets. Nonetheless, the woman that was the subject of Lipita's attention was something unusual indeed even among the Golden Devils.

Sitting in repose on a flat rock under the blazing heat of the sun, Lihua Kokkinos gleamed in the noon daylight. Skin formed from tin smoothed to a mirror-like finish reflected the sunlight, marred by streaks of what appeared to be quartz along her arms and forming a crystalline orb in her left eye socket. Even in the afternoon heat, the air around her figure rippled from the fury of the molten engine that was her body, drawing in qi from a spirit stone held in her hands and cycling it throughout her body.

"Are you going to stare at me all day or do you have something you should be doing now?" A voice low and hoarse, interrupted Lipita's trance. Lihua had broken off her meditation after the junior seemed like she'd remained still like a besotted lover for more than a couple of minutes. Clambering off her seat, she approached the young girl exhaling an errant breath of steam.

"My apologies, senior." Lipita offered chagrined, bending down into a quick bow before rising. "It's just that the only other physical transformation that I've seen so complete as a baseline default is the Pure Bronze constitution of the Rhodessias and even those don't progress so far until well into Core Formation. Senior appears to be early in Foundation Establishment with none of the major drawbacks of such an early transmutation."

"Hmmph, you have a good eye even for a Delphi."A hint of a grin hovered over Lihua's lips as she reconsidered Lipita. "My Living Metal Constitution is a mutated variant of the Blood of Bronze combining with a Phoenix Flame Body bloodline."

Lipita hesitated a moment before asking, "Your Phoenix inheritance would it be of True Phoenix origin?"

Lihua nodded and smiled, "Indeed, it is. The transformative and life-giving properties turn my body into something akin to an animated statue. My enntire biology is wholly comprised of living metal, but rather than rigid bronze, molten metal courses through my veins, bones of iron, flesh of copper and skin of tin. My regeneration makes it such that most wounds heal swiftly, and I recently had the experience of incorporating quartz and mercury. Neither of the core strengths of the original bloodlines, but something new in the middle. But I don't think you are here to inquire after my heritage, so let's attend to business."

Reaching into the satchel at her side, Lipita pulled out a jade slip and handed it over. "Elder Linus says that this is the compilation of what the family has on the production of orichalcum. Sungold is a rare enough metal that its extraction and refinement are generally the province of Three Star Blacksmiths or higher. The Clan hasn't had many such in recent history and the archives are fragmented from the exodus into the desert. However, he believes that your unique constitution and your familiarity with the laws of Solar qi in the Hyperion Lance Art could allow you to refine lesser orichalcum through internal alchemy. His theory and the mechanics supposed are also included in the slip and he invites you to join him at the Arboretum in the Pill-Forging Forest to cooperate on the attempt."

A brief scowl came upon Lihua's face. "That old drunk is always trying to get a discount on the spiritual metals I sell. He thinks if he keeps me close I'll take him up on his offer to become his apprentice. Huh, he can keep on dreaming if he thinks I'll call him master…"

Lipita wisely kept her thoughts to herself about Lihua disparaging on the elders of the Delphi family council, no matter how much she agreed. Lihua's rant quickly petered off and she turned to look at Lipita, eyebrow cocked. "Thanks for delivering the package. I don't have a return message for Linus at the moment so you can leave."

As she was turning to return to her cultivation, Lipita called out at her with another bow. "Forgiveness senior, if this junior is interrupting you. But I'd like to observe as you cycle if it would not be a bother. You were refining the unaspected qi in the spirit stone and then somehow aligning it with solar qi with remarkable efficiency. This one has some familiarity with the Century Oasis Formation and the ability to be more efficient in the draw on environmental energies, particularly the yang strength of the dragonlines of sky and sun, would be greatly enhanced by understanding your process and perhaps reverse-engineering it."

Lihua gave Lipita a considering glance and shrugged, "Sure why not, just keep an eye on your condition. You're early in Qi Condensation and even with the blood of Bronze, heatstroke can sneak up on you."

Bowing once again in thanks, Lipita found a nearby seat as Lihua retook her position on the rock and begun to cycle. The heat was nothing compared to the thirst for knowledge that burned in Lipita. Surviving the Yuan Secret Realm would require every ounce of effort in her body and the better prepared she was, the better her chances.

Closing her eyes and looking with her spiritual senses, Lihua was a sunbright presence upon the environment. There was a hint of something at the core of her being, a firm resolve that pulled at the world. As Lihua cycled and Lipita watched, she observed her aura stretch forth into the sky blossoming like a canopy supplementing in infinitesimal amounts the draw on the qi stone. Minute enlightenment bloomed in Lipita, Lihua was reflecting the sun focusing its strength onto herself to help her refine the qi into what she desired. Lipita settled in for a long study, looking forward to observing and learning as a senior unselfishly shared the lessons from a lifetime of cultivation.

Note: Taking a LST as the reward @no.

 

[Sirrocco]

That's how it works everywhere. To put energy into something you have to take it from somewhere else. I know the laws of reality vary a bit between worlds but I highly doubt conservation of energy is unique to the Turtle World.

Click to shrink...

Other heavenly laws might function differently. Perhaps they're based off of enlightenment, or Karma (rather than consumption with a karma chaser). Perhaps it is possible to eventually start generating your own energy. I doubt it's unique to turtle world, but I'd expect that there would be places where it would be different.

 

[veekie]

Its not inherent to the genre, just as Isekai doesn't need to involve Truck-kun.
It happens a lot though.

 

[no.]

Other heavenly laws might function differently. Perhaps they're based off of enlightenment, or Karma (rather than consumption with a karma chaser). Perhaps it is possible to eventually start generating your own energy. I doubt it's unique to turtle world, but I'd expect that there would be places where it would be different.

Click to shrink...

It is already partially based on enlightenment here. Though it's not exactly intelligently designed so much as certain philosophical insights allow one to compress the qi in their body further. It's only "consumption" so much as putting anything inside of any container is consumption. There's certainly no indication that that's the Dao of the world itself. Especially since Heaven has such massive, seething hatred toward the legacy of the greatest Consumption practitioner in history.

 

[no.]

@Sol Zagato please post a link to your most recent collab with insane-not-crazy so that you can get your bonus from it.

 

[ReaderOfFate]

One thing that I think is important to consider is that all cultivation is inimical to the Heavens, hence the existence of tribulation in the first place. They don't want people to be able to climb up.

Cultivation being based on using resources to advance, therefore, has less to do with these Heavens themselves, and more to do with what it takes to overcome them.

(That being said, pure resources won't take you all the way. It might bring you to Foundation, but if you don't align your Dao Pillars, the pieces of your ideology, that's it for your prospects. And if you have plenty of resources but can't compromise on your Dao, admit it is flawed, Great Circle Core is the endpoint for you. And so on.)

 

[no.]

One thing that I think is important to consider is that all cultivation is inimical to the Heavens, hence the existence of tribulation in the first place. They don't want people to be able to climb up.

Cultivation being based on using resources to advance, therefore, has less to do with these Heavens themselves, and more to do with what it takes to overcome them.

(That being said, pure resources won't take you all the way. It might bring you to Foundation, but if you don't align your Dao Pillars, the pieces of your ideology, that's it for your prospects. And if you have plenty of resources but can't compromise on your Dao, admit it is flawed, Great Circle Core is the endpoint for you. And so on.)

Click to shrink...

This too. No version of Heaven wants people to cultivate. A morally-driven Heaven would not align things so that good people reach higher, because it wouldn't want anyone to reach higher. Instead it would label cultivation as inherently evil, and some cultivators would try to lessen its wrath by being honorable and following guidelines, and oh look, we're right back to square one with Righteous and Demonic factions.

 

[TehChron]

Even if we do conquer Jingshen's land, the most realist plan would involve conquering the land for the Flood Dragons, we won't be the ones getting the income, it'll support Lady Yao.

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That's not realistic at all.

The Flood Dragons are wandering cultivators from the start. They straight up dont hold land. The last time we had this discussion about having new territories it wasnt even an option.

I'd argue

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Then you're welcome to make that argument and we'll see how many agree with that perspective

 

[Sparsebeard]

That's not realistic at all.

The Flood Dragons are wandering cultivators from the start. They straight up dont hold land. The last time we had this discussion about having new territories it wasnt even an option.

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If I remember well, the reason it wasn't an option was how hard it would be to push it politically.

There WAS an option to set up a new righteous power in the desert option and when people asked if we could have it be the FDG, Occi anwsered that it would be opposed by other factions, not that the FDG wouldn't accept.

I mean, as I pointed out previously, there IS presently a major bandit faction holding land, the Broken Arrows (probably tons of minor powers too). And even wanderers can appreciate the benefits of having a homebase (especially if they have nearby allies to guard / help administrate their lands when some of them are wandering).

I find it much more unrealistic that we could take Jingshen territories for ourselves directly without facing severe consequences as it would be a slap in the face of the SPS that we spent much of the quest trying to befriend.

 

[TehChron]

find it much more unrealistic that we could take Jingshen territories for ourselves directly without facing severe consequences as it would be a slap in the face of the SPS that we spent much of the quest trying to befriend.

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And so what?

Befriending the SPS has always been a means to an end rather than an end unto itself.

 

[Simon_Jester]

And so what?

Befriending the SPS has always been a means to an end rather than an end unto itself.

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They will be both swole and pissed. This is a bad combination.

 

[Sparsebeard]

And so what?

Befriending the SPS has always been a means to an end rather than an end unto itself.

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"Do you want a coalition? Because that's how you get a coalition"

 

[Alectai]

Practically speaking.

What we want to do is Neutralize Jingshen as a threat. Ideally we would do so in a fashion that discourages a coalition to fuck us up, but if there's no path to victory without it, we'll just have to bite our tongue.

Because as long as Old Jingshen wants the Scorpion Road, and as long as we need it to stay afloat, there's always going to be a risk--and with the Super Devil Bees building up steam, fighting them when the Shit Hits The Fan is going to invite Jingshen fuckery on the Road.

One cheeky possibility would be masterminding a Regime Change to someone who would be content with simply the biggest and richest mines in the Region without turning and going "Yes but wouldn't an uncontested monoply be even better?". It'd all but guarantee tacit support from the Righteous Powers because nobody likes Jingshen, and we can probably include as a condition of our support to said regime change an acknowledgement of our borders and the Scorpion Road as part of it.

Because what it all boils down to is "We're going to be in the shit within less than two centuries, and if Jingshen stabs us in the back when we're holding back the Bees, we lose"

 

[no.]

If I remember well, the reason it wasn't an option was how hard it would be to push it politically.

There WAS an option to set up a new righteous power in the desert option and when people asked if we could have it be the FDG, Occi anwsered that it would be opposed by other factions, not that the FDG wouldn't accept.

I mean, as I pointed out previously, there IS presently a major bandit faction holding land, the Broken Arrows (probably tons of minor powers too). And even wanderers can appreciate the benefits of having a homebase (especially if they have nearby allies to guard / help administrate their lands when some of them are wandering).

I find it much more unrealistic that we could take Jingshen territories for ourselves directly without facing severe consequences as it would be a slap in the face of the SPS that we spent much of the quest trying to befriend.

Click to shrink...

Fuck the SPS.
Let me say it again. Fuck the Strength Purity Sect. We are Demonic and they are Righteous. Ultimately, we are still enemies. Us building good will with them has been entirely so we could get away with something like conquering Jingshen. It was never about being nice, it was about creating opportunities.

Once we have a stranglehold on the output of spirit stones, it won't matter what they think of us. We'll be holding their ability to fight against the Blood Path hostage. Sure they could come wipe us out in response, but then the Demonic Altar would wipe them out in turn while they were distracted.

 

[no.]

Practically speaking.

What we want to do is Neutralize Jingshen as a threat. Ideally we would do so in a fashion that discourages a coalition to fuck us up, but if there's no path to victor without it, we'll just have to bite our tongue.

Because as long as Old Jingshen wants the Scorpion Road, and as long as we need it to stay afloat, there's always going to be a risk--and with the Super Devil Bees building up steam, fighting them when the Shit Hits The Fan is going to invite Jingshen fuckery on the Road.

Click to shrink...

Personally, I'm not content with neutralizing them. To accomplish our current goals we need much, much more income, and as long as Jingshen exists as an independent polity we won't be able to get enough. We need to take so much from them that they downward spiral and eventually have to accept being our vassal.

 

[TehChron]

"Do you want a coalition? Because that's how you get a coalition"

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If you're going to try and throw my own words back at me, you may want to include them in full lol

 

[fictionfan]

Practically speaking.

What we want to do is Neutralize Jingshen as a threat. Ideally we would do so in a fashion that discourages a coalition to fuck us up, but if there's no path to victory without it, we'll just have to bite our tongue.

Because as long as Old Jingshen wants the Scorpion Road, and as long as we need it to stay afloat, there's always going to be a risk--and with the Super Devil Bees building up steam, fighting them when the Shit Hits The Fan is going to invite Jingshen fuckery on the Road.

One cheeky possibility would be masterminding a Regime Change to someone who would be content with simply the biggest and richest mines in the Region without turning and going "Yes but wouldn't an uncontested monoply be even better?". It'd all but guarantee tacit support from the Righteous Powers because nobody likes Jingshen, and we can probably include as a condition of our support to said regime change an acknowledgement of our borders and the Scorpion Road as part of it.

Because what it all boils down to is "We're going to be in the shit within less than two centuries, and if Jingshen stabs us in the back when we're holding back the Bees, we lose"

Click to shrink...

It's always possible that the righteous powers actually manage to kill some of the Bees before then. The Bees are actively fighting them right now. Really it feels weird to fear the rightous powers forming a collation against us when them forming a collation against the Bees that are actively fight them right now and are blood path besides isn't even a consideration. Which makes me think that collations are somewhat hard to form.

 

[Sparsebeard]

Once we have a stranglehold on the output of spirit stones, it won't matter what they think of us. We'll be holding their ability to fight against the Blood Path hostage. Sure they could come wipe us out in response, but then the Demonic Altar would wipe them out in turn while they were distracted.

Click to shrink...

I don't think the Altar Lord will be in much of a position to do such a thing after SPS wins the war (with our help).

 

[no.]

I don't think the Altar Lord will be in much of a position to do such a thing after SPS wins the war (with our help).

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That's why we don't want to win the war yet. We're trying to prolong the war as long as we can, and raising the price on Spirit Stones after we take over Jingshen will help do that.

Plus, the Noble Devil Alliance breaking up wouldn't mean the end of the war. It would just mean the Righteous Powers stop getting steamrolled. It was a pretty even fight back when the demonic factions were divided after all.

Playing do-gooder will do nothing but get us either wiped out or sent back into a slow decline. We have to scheme, manipulate and play dirty to keep growing.

 

[TehChron]

It's always possible that the righteous powers actually manage to kill some of the Bees before then. The Bees are actively fighting them right now. Really it feels weird to fear the rightous powers forming a collation against us when them forming a collation against the Bees that are actively fight them right now and are blood path besides isn't even a consideration. Which makes me think that collations are somewhat hard to form.

Click to shrink...

That's because in the very short term (The duration of our treaty with Yao) we genuinely arent afraid of a coalition forming and why so many of us have shifted to a preference for more aggressive posturing.

We're not going to get an opportunity to just walk in and punch Jingshens face in with minimal interruptions like this...probably ever again.

Having three Nascents while the Jingshen have two is a tremendously unexpected reversal of the arithmetic that the Jingshen have been operating under.

If the results of our missions and Intrigue are good enough, we might even be able to invade them as early as next turn.

 

[Alectai]

Yeah, the key is "Get intel", "Get advantage" and ideally "Set things up that we can have whatever we do be accepted as a fait accompli without provoking a coalition after the Demon Annihilating War is over"

Because even if the Sects are getting pasted, relatively few Nascent Souls have died, and those are what a coalition would throw at us.

I think we've got a pretty good shot at seizing the remaining Cannibal holdings without provoking a death struggle, and maybe peeling off their vassals in the bargain. With that, we should be able to support three Nascents and can probably force favorable terms onto Jingshen that render them a relative non-issue in the long run. Since the New Lands were shit they got for nothing and didn't even hold that long, it shouldn't be cause for a coalition.

If we luck out and discover a good CB though... Well...

 

[Sparsebeard]

If you're going to try and throw my own words back at me, you may want to include them in full lol

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I don't know what you mean by that but remember this, last coalition was caused by us making the Divine Saber Sect lose face (it also caused a long lasting enemity). Do you really want to make the much more powerful and influential SPS lose face?

That's why we don't want to win the war yet. We're trying to prolong the war as long as we can, and raising the price on Spirit Stones after we take over Jingshen will help do that.

Plus, the Noble Devil Alliance breaking up wouldn't mean the end of the war. It would just mean the Righteous Powers stop getting steamrolled. It was a pretty even fight back when the demonic factions were divided after all.

Playing do-gooder will do nothing but get us either wiped out or sent back into a slow decline. We have to scheme, manipulate and play dirty to keep growing.

Click to shrink...

We refused the Altar Lord's offer and just sent our best array masters, a few legions and some of our best Good Seeds to help on the front line. Plus, we've been suppliying the Righteous Powers with spirit stones and providing them passage to the Oasis to heal their wounded.

We are pretty much doing all we can to win the war presto short of sending Manuel to the front.

 

[fictionfan]

That's because in the very short term (The duration of our treaty with Yao) we genuinely arent afraid of a coalition forming and why so many of us have shifted to a preference for more aggressive posturing.

We're not going to get an opportunity to just walk in and punch Jingshens face in with minimal interruptions like this...probably ever again.

Having three Nascents while the Jingshen have two is a tremendously unexpected reversal of the arithmetic that the Jingshen have been operating under.

If the results of our missions and Intrigue are good enough, we might even be able to invade them as early as next turn.

Click to shrink...

If Manuel's economic actions work out and we get some nice tribulation treasures would it make sense to go for 4 and go all in on the war?

 

[no.]

Yeah, the key is "Get intel", "Get advantage" and ideally "Set things up that we can have whatever we do be accepted as a fait accompli without provoking a coalition after the Demon Annihilating War is over"

Because even if the Sects are getting pasted, relatively few Nascent Souls have died, and those are what a coalition would throw at us.

I think we've got a pretty good shot at seizing the remaining Cannibal holdings without provoking a death struggle, and maybe peeling off their vassals in the bargain. With that, we should be able to support three Nascents and can probably force favorable terms onto Jingshen that render them a relative non-issue in the long run. Since the New Lands were shit they got for nothing and didn't even hold that long, it shouldn't be cause for a coalition.

If we luck out and discover a good CB though... Well...

Click to shrink...

I mentioned it in the discord but I'll put it here too:

If we want to make use of Manuel's intrigue in a really devastating way, we should CREATE a Casus Beli. We should launch a false flag attack on ourselves, blowing up a major fortress and possibly even killing some willing volunteers. If we play our cards right, that could be enough cause to bite a big chunk out of Jingshen's core territories after taking their vassal and Cannibal lands. If we can take that much land, then we might put them below the two-Nascent threshold.