I will, but if UAR has no supercarriers how are they a match for the USN? Do they have lots of destroyers and subs instead?
History Strikes Back (TNO/TLM ISOT into OTL)
- Thread starter StarMaker764
- Start date
- Timeline Post-1900 Supernatural
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- tno isot (isekai)
I will, but if UAR has no supercarriers how are they a match for the USN? Do they have lots of destroyers and subs instead?
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
UAR does have nukes and a size-able navy (along with a number of aircraft carriers). It was the somewhat literal heart of the Communist International from its formation, at the crossroads between the African, south asian, and east European communist nations, and was the best point to send aid convoys to communist Suomi (Finland with a dozen+ refuge diasporas) before better routes could be established.
It has a strong position, and also helped a lot with rebuilding collapsed states, so it has institutional knowledge to help with some of the wreckage it caused to places like Mauritania
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They may have super carriers but I don't know. Carriers are great if your traveling half way across the planet and invading other countries, but they aren't the end all be all. UAR will absolutely be able to repel the US Navy if they try to invade or enact a blockade.
Spylobster
Centrist-Malenyevist
An outright invasion against UAR territory is a very bad move anyway, since the Comintern in TLM established long ago that any military that tries to attack a Comintern member state is getting counter-attacked with tactical nuclear weapons.
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- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Even if the UAR doesn't have super carriers, or nuclear powered carriers*, it does have proper fleet carriers. One of the first things we did in TLM was buy some of the United States' old Essexes (helped by the president at the time being someone with more libertarianism than sense, and by the CIA director being a personal friend of Nasser's). Then, once we had the industrial capacity to spare, we reverse-engineered those old girls, updated them to 1980s tech, and started churning out our own fleets.
*(That being said, the Comintern in TLM does have nuclear-powered subs; by the mid 80's we've only just figured out how to make them, but by the 21st century I expect they'd be up to par.)
- Location
- A haze of forgetfulness
- Pronouns
- She/Her
To fight a navy like the USN you don't do it by also having a bunch of carrier fleets you do it by blasting their carriers out of the water with missiles and submarines
I see, so TLM Comintern has nuclear subs, which means SLBMs? Right?
Huh, maybe UAR has ballistic AShMs, also is there like a comprehensive list of military assets in the UAR? I assume military units from other nations will be present.
Huh, maybe UAR has ballistic AShMs, also is there like a comprehensive list of military assets in the UAR? I assume military units from other nations will be present.
- Location
- A haze of forgetfulness
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No there is not a complete list, yes the UAR has access to nuclear power, nuclear weapons, nuclear civilian ships, and nuclear military vessels.
In TLM the comintern has the International Revolutionary Brigades (IRB) which is like, the global army, and some of those forces will be present.
The players also voted for a global comintern navy so the ships are staffed full of various sailors from around the world.
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
IRB is more of a volunteer special forces/light infantry formation than a global army. They mostly aid and train other revolutionary forces or act as quick reinforcements for other Comintern nations. In HSB apparently we failed the vote to form an International Armed Forces and national militaries still exist
- Location
- Austin
- Pronouns
- She/They
Does the UK still have bases on Malta? Because Malta became independent from the UK decades before this timeline.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
NATO Headquarters for Mediterranean operations is located there, I believe. Malta is independent, but it's still a significant base for Western Europe as a strategic point in the Mediterranean. I don't know about the UK specifically, but there's going to be a lot of angry NATO personnel.
- Location
- India
What is situation in Asia? In China and India?
Pretty sure they are still in the "Process the fact that a Red Arab Superpower just appeared replacing the previously disunited Arab World" phase. After they properly process that fact, I could see China turning to some degree to the UAR and the leftists in India getting support.
- Location
- Austin
- Pronouns
- She/They
I can imagine at first that China is going to be trying to play both sides with a lot of internal tension as that becomes less tenable.
China has a hard choich to make.
On one hand, you have a fello communist superpower that can rivaled america, and has a new welcoming market
On the other hand, you have spend decades building up relationship with western nations and it realy difficult to suddenly throw that away.
No matter what happend, china has to chose a side, and a middle ground wil only delay it.
- Location
- USA
Yeah basically China has for the last few decades tried to play nice with capitalists to help them develop. They had to do this because the alternative is destruction or poverty.
But now they have an alternative. Picking aside is not something China does. There entire foreign affair strategy is being strictly neutral in anything that does not directly involve. So they will probably try and desperately stick with that. Even as it becomes more and more untenable.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
2002 is 13 or so years ahead of our current playtime.
The UAR has a Navy but another thing to note is the Comintern also has a Navy. With the two combined it is enough to match the USN. Besides not having supercarriers doesn't mean they can't match the USN, especially if the Navy in question isn't built to fight beyond the reach of Aircraft Bases.
Maybe the UAR will from a fifth Comintern with Cuba and Vietnam and maybe China? I doubt that China will be joining anytime soon though
- Location
- USA
Don't forget Loa. They exist too!
Spylobster
Centrist-Malenyevist
The funny part will be how the UAR/Comintern deals with North Korea. While there will probably be ideological differences between them, the DPRK historically had pretty good relations with OTL Gaddafi-era Libya and with the various Palestinian militias/political parties.
A calculated risk (2002-2003)
- Location
- The observable universe
"Power without principle is barren, but principle without power is futile."—Tony Blair
The Mediterranean crisis was an event that could only happen due to a mixture of unprecedented events, European political insecurity, and a lack of trusted communication between all parties.
One must understand the political realities of the United Kingdom to understand why events played out as they did.
The United Kingdom has exited the Cold War on the winning side, though it hardly felt like it for some. The Sun had set on the British empire, which went from covering 25% of the world to being a measly collection of tiny islands and outposts scattered across the world's oceans outside the isles.
The Falklands War had proved to many that the British were still a force to be reckoned with but overall Britain was feeling insecure in its new position as merely another player in the American-dominated world order, no matter how much it wanted to pretend that a special relationship with its most powerful former colony gave it a privileged position.
The hurricane of neoliberal reforms implemented by the Iron Lady certainly did not help at all, leaving entire communities decimated and social services gutted as the gospel of the Free Market became the law of the land and a status quo of financialization and immiseration was beginning to set in.
When Labor was propelled into power under Blair's leadership, some had hoped that it would single a change or even a reversal from the previous years of neoliberalism only to have such hopes dashed by Blair's turn to "New Labor" solidifying the Thatcherite reforms as the baseline from which all British political thought must pivot towards and orbit, even as the Prime Minister envisioned a multiculturalist UK at the heart of global finance and innovation, a youthful vibrant nation arising from slumber and ready to claim its place in the brave new world of pax-Americana as a defender of liberty and democratic values across the globe.
And then the Wamda happened.
In the blink of an eye, the world that the Britons had attempted to adapt to was simply no more as the geopolitical board was smashed beyond recognition.
Markets across the globe crashed as the simple reality that hundreds of billions of dollars simply vanished from the world economy, and with them disappeared an unthinkable amount of investments, business assets, corporate branches, and more; it was a blow that was wholly unprecedented, and making matters worse was the simple fact that the majority of the world's top oil producers simply didn't exist anymore, replaced by an entity that stood as a mockery of all the new Britain stood for.
"There was no alternative" the Thatcherite dogma goes but here was one, gigantic and terrifying, squatting across an area of the globe that stretched from the Atlantic Ocean to the Persian Gulf and from the Savannas of Africa to Sicily.
And it was that last part that would be crucial.
NATO was already thrown into disarray by the loss of its regional headquarters but the Arab Republic was in an advantageous position to cause chaos to global trade long term thanks to its control of the Suez Canal, the African side of Gibraltar, Malta, and Sicily, the latter two allowing it to essentially cut the Mediterranean in half at any time, which for the British meant losing access to their territories in Cyprus which may lead to the already ephemeral remnants of the once glorious empire being reduced even more.
London was staring at the possibility of immense social unrest as the true scope of the economic crisis and implications of the Wamda set in, already many areas were becoming engulfed in protests turned riots and pogroms against Muslims and non-whites in general and the government knew it was only gonna get worse even if the market stabilized eventually.
Whitehall would thus begin considering drastic measures to outpace the unrest, wanting a victory to boost its image and legitimacy to be in a better position to handle the coming fallout.
And what better victory than a decisive military one?
It seemed insane at first but the more it was considered the more it seemed logical.
The United Arab Republic was vast, true, but it was an Arab regime nonetheless, and has history not shown that behind the bluster Arab armies were utterly corrupt and incompetent? Were these not the same armies that were humiliated over and over again by the now-late tiny Israel? Had Saddam's forces proven themselves utterly worthless even with the extensive support against the Iranian regime?
It was deemed unlikely that the UAR's military was any different, if it was then it was only because now it would combine the worst of the Arab and Soviet armies, and although the UAR was quick to announce its supposed nuclear capabilities to the world, many remained skeptical of the veracity of that claim as they did with much of the information coming about the world of the "Long March".
An Axis victory resulting in most of the world becoming communist? A segregationist nuke-happy US? The tsars returning to rule Russia only to be overthrown by communists again? A successful operation Sealion? All of this reeked of unimaginative communist propaganda meant to mask a more unpleasant reality and less potent capabilities. The UAR's nuclear capabilities were judged to be on Iran's current level.
Of course, it helped that the British top brass was eager to believe anything that justified a military intervention, sensing the chance for a sequel to the brilliant victory in the Falklands and cementing Britain's place on the world stage, ignoring more moderate voices that suggested a more cautious approach.
These hopes were bolstered by the knowledge that the Italians were planning their own operation to "liberate" Sicily from the Islamic-communist yoke, under similar reasonings but driven by even greater desperation and delusion, as Blair's Italian counterpart Berlusconi was facing an even more dire domestic situation with the enemy practically at his doorstep, and Il Cavaliere was determined to do something, anything to not look weak.
Soon Rome and London would hatch a plan together, resolving to attack the Arab giant now while the situation was still chaotic in the Middle East and before anyone could react to their actions. The plan was for the Italians to attack and liberate as much of Sicily as possible while a British naval task force would secure Malta, with the intent of at least having boots on the ground during future talks to present a stronger negotiating position if the islands weren't seized outright.
The French and Spanish were also approached in hopes of getting them to participate but both Romance nations declined to make any military contributions, favoring a more cautious approach. Spain would give its permission for British naval forces to pass through its territorial waters though.
The Americans of course were aware that London and Italy were mobilizing for something but the White House had assumed that this was merely an effort at intimidation rather than an actual full-out assault. President Bush would communicate with both prime ministers on the eve of the operation and gave hints of his approval not knowing the full scope of the plan.
Of course, the UAR didn't know any of this, it was a stumbling colossus left marooned in an unfamiliar ocean, hastily trying to stay afloat above the waves and wary of a world that was a mockery of everything it stood for.
And thus when the first reports came of unidentified military vessels brazenly entering its territorial waters one week into its existence in this brave new world….
| It reacted in the only way it knew |
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
With a tactical nuclear strike.
Fucking European morons just assumed the nukes couldn't be online.
You have orbital recon you can do an infrastructure quality check, determine it's top teir because the Comintern doesn't fuck around with the backbone of society, and that tells you they can into engineering.
Fucking European morons just assumed the nukes couldn't be online.
You have orbital recon you can do an infrastructure quality check, determine it's top teir because the Comintern doesn't fuck around with the backbone of society, and that tells you they can into engineering.
- Location
- USA
Well this is a wonderful introduction to the world of what the UAR can do. I can't wait to see the fall out. The next UN meeting is going to be very interesting
Well the Nuclear Taboo got broken, well to some degree anyway. Wonder how the rest of the world feels about the British and the Italians helping contribute to Tactical Nuclear Strikes suddenly becoming something people have to legitimately worry for.