- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Are the Luddye a part of this, or are they mostly considered to be a subset of 'german'?
History Strikes Back (TNO/TLM ISOT into OTL)
- Thread starter StarMaker764
- Start date
- Timeline Post-1900 Supernatural
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- Tags
- tno isot (isekai)
Spylobster
Centrist-Malenyevist
That also makes me wonder how many IRB units are in the UAR.
Yeah, it makes me think that Comintern/UAR could form IRB battalions for specific liberation movements. Kurdish, Turkish, and Iranian IRB volunteers would already be a nightmare for Turkey and Iran. The UK might freak out if the Comintern parades a fully-trained and equipped Irish brigade in Alexandria.
Yeah, it makes me think that Comintern/UAR could form IRB battalions for specific liberation movements. Kurdish, Turkish, and Iranian IRB volunteers would already be a nightmare for Turkey and Iran. The UK might freak out if the Comintern parades a fully-trained and equipped Irish brigade in Alexandria.
- Location
- The observable universe
The UAR could straight up curb stomp Iran whenever it wants, it just doesn't feel it would work out long term atm because support for Islamism is strong and support for leftism is weak at the current time.
Can't spoil anything so maybe, though keep in mind that these numbers are specifically for non-citizens, if naturalised immigrants and their descendants are counted then the number of Luddye, Chinese, Koreans, Chileans and Iberians jumps up dramatically.
Majority of Luddye within the UAR are citizens so they don't count in the numbers; currently there are between 2.3-4.1 million Luddye and Luddye descendants in the UAR depending on how rigid or loose your definition of Luddye is.
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So are the Oceanians the remains of the Oceanian Communist Party or do we still allow travel with CPS aligned Oceania?
- Location
- The observable universe
The former plus refugees
Raiho-kun
This Cycle's Second Biggest Communism Builder
Since the UAR is no longer in a (mostly) red world where borders are superfluous, there will probably be a unprecedented volume of people applying for UAR citizenship since the rest of the world isn't going to accept Comintern passports and will consider the non-citizens stateless. The vast majority of people aren't going to form governments-in-exile or gear up for the "grand revolutionary return", especially when their "home countries" are radically different in this timeline.
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Spylobster
Centrist-Malenyevist
It's more that the IRB is still around, which may have some units that are comprised primarily of volunteers from a particular nationality or culture. I could pretty easily see Kurdish and Turkish IRB volunteers trickling through the Turkish border to assist rebel groups like the PKK and MLKP.
Probably not relevent rigth now, but just wanna remind everyone that former japan pm shinzo abe is kishi's grandson.
You think this will lead to him being doubled scorned. One for his grandfather being considered the "monster of the Shōwa era". The second for being a imperialist.
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Probably very little considering what happened to the last interlopers...
- Location
- UK
Not gonna lie, I'm not sure if I can see this happening as played out. I can sort of see Italy's perspective, it's almost an existential crisis to lose Sicily, but honestly don't understand Blair going in without Washington's nod of approval. Particularly if there's no longer any (or just fewer) of the convenient island bases for them to operate from.
I hate Blair and his government but I just don't see them not at least trying to open diplomatic communication about territorial waters before military posturing.
I hate Blair and his government but I just don't see them not at least trying to open diplomatic communication about territorial waters before military posturing.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
That's because this is only 50% about Blair and his record of interventions being reinterpreted after Iraqi Freedom. The other half of commmentary is about using the fig leaf of "oil crisis" and "economic turmoil" to throw shade at the now-current Labor Government under Starmer and their perceived lackluster response to far-right riots against minorities and refugees.
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- Location
- UK
I fully appreciate the "theme" of this story and appreciate it as a story in and of itself. I almost also brought up how the fascist street movement in the UK had decayed in the early 2000's, with the BNP pivoting away from the street in this period due to losing consistently and often to antifascists in the 90's, so the idea of similar riots to what we are experiencing today occuring without strong antifascist counter-demonstrations could also not really be seen as realistic but I fully get the parallels envoked.
I guess I couldn't bite my tongue/halt my fingers. The premise is, after all, the fantastical juxtaposition of an alien but familiar culture into our timeline so maybe I should hold off criticism from a "realist" position.
- Location
- Philippines
My concerns tend to be how fast the damn invasion was.
How the Hell was Britain able to get a fleet ready within one week of the crisis?
How the Hell was Britain able to get a fleet ready within one week of the crisis?
So just finished TLM and damn I almost thought I was reading something from WH40k. Major PTSD from most survivors of the conflicts in the UAR. But hopefully in this new world of "peace" major wars will be limited
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Oh no, you're absolutely right. That's what the genre of "time travel political thriller" is about: A power fantasy where the reader gets to indulge with the author over their shared political beliefs. Whether it's "what if Nazis won WW2 #3836819", a modern day Russian waking up in the body of Hitler, a bunch of South African Neo-Nazis selling AKs to Lee, or a modern GRU team killing Admiral Nelson at the battle of Trafalgar and overthrowing the British Empire, it's all about political commentary.
The trick is to usually keep that under wraps with a veneer of plausibility. Unless you're part of the Russian Government's pulp novel industry, then the blatancy is a key part of manufacturing consent.
- Location
- The observable universe
It's gonna be their defining feature from now on.
The UAR will grant citizenship universally to all TLM people who got displaced here as an emergency measure and because the concept of citizenship is already fluid back in their world.
I will admit that I should probably have added some lines about anti-fascist counter protests and such. Guess you can chalk it up to the chaos and confusion keeping the street left paralyzed for a hot minute while trying to figure out what's going on exactly.
- Location
- Philippines
Its probably everybody in Britain rioting for something.
Situation is really that bad. Add in international humiliation and it might be the fact that the local police are too busy hunkering down somewhere due to sheer scale of rioting that naturally that less protected areas are left for themselves.
Those are probably the poorer and minority areas and it just looks that bad because its probably in the news or something.
So business as usual?
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Presumably the same way that the Falklands counter-invasion happened, but smaller: They sailed without a plan a began working it out on the voyage over.
Hell, they were probably in a stuffy conference with the Ministers when the ballistic missile alarm went out and all of a sudden the feed to the fleet cut.
Not quite. The Zionist movement has been set back almost a century. And that was not a good time for them.
The movement for a Jewish state didn't just suffer from British and American unwillingness or a need to keep the Palestinians calm. There just straight-up wasn't the will among the Jewish community across the globe. Even after WW2, the independence war was basically fought by the preexisting Zionist extremist militias and ex-soldiers, and even that only got a pass because Stalin decided one time he hated the west more than jewish people.
Basically, Israel exist because of multiple external factors coming together at just the right time on multiple occasions, so that a small section of people could birth/resurrect a nation.
Don't ask what AIPAC wants to do. Ask how many people agree with AIPAC. Maybe Jewish people ITTL feel strongly enough about a Jewish state they've never been to or don't live in is important enough to make sure sticks around. Maybe they think concerns in their own countries are more important than messing with a Wierd Arabic-Communist Nuclear Power.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'm not too sure how the Jewish population is going to swing.
On the one hand, something like ~77% of OTL Jews just up and vanished (according to wikipedia, 1970 Israel had 86%, and 2010 had 74%. I can't find something closer to the ISOT, so you get an estimate). This is a massive blow culturally and communally, and will definitely provoke strong reactions, especially since Israel's 2000 population was just over 6,300,000 (Oh hey Jewish victims of the Holocaust, you are a frightfully similar number, but I'm sure that's not relevant). On the other hand, the vast majority of Jewish Zionists were living in Israel because, well, that's the whole point of it. On top of that, the Jews living in the UAR are happy, healthy, and thriving, and I can't see them being unwilling to reach out to their kin across the globe (even if they'd be cautious due trauma from their timeline's Tkuma). By the same token, I can't see most Jewish communities outside the UAR being unwilling to at least open a dialogue, even if more conservative groups would still hold to Zionism. But most OTL Jews now remaining live in the USA, the biggest rival and enemy of the UAR, so they'll have to be careful by definition.
I could see Starmaker taking this in any direction he wanted, really. AIPAC however is going to last for a few years at least.
On the one hand, something like ~77% of OTL Jews just up and vanished (according to wikipedia, 1970 Israel had 86%, and 2010 had 74%. I can't find something closer to the ISOT, so you get an estimate). This is a massive blow culturally and communally, and will definitely provoke strong reactions, especially since Israel's 2000 population was just over 6,300,000 (Oh hey Jewish victims of the Holocaust, you are a frightfully similar number, but I'm sure that's not relevant). On the other hand, the vast majority of Jewish Zionists were living in Israel because, well, that's the whole point of it. On top of that, the Jews living in the UAR are happy, healthy, and thriving, and I can't see them being unwilling to reach out to their kin across the globe (even if they'd be cautious due trauma from their timeline's Tkuma). By the same token, I can't see most Jewish communities outside the UAR being unwilling to at least open a dialogue, even if more conservative groups would still hold to Zionism. But most OTL Jews now remaining live in the USA, the biggest rival and enemy of the UAR, so they'll have to be careful by definition.
I could see Starmaker taking this in any direction he wanted, really. AIPAC however is going to last for a few years at least.
Raiho-kun
This Cycle's Second Biggest Communism Builder
Not to absolve the organization or its backers in any way but AIPAC isn't its own independent entity. It largely enjoys the prominence it has now based on the US Gov's need to support the Israeli project and to grease the wheels internally towards that end, both among its political actors and wider population. If AIPAC didn't lose most of the wind in its sails after the UAR didn't simply collapse like the last "evil empire" did, then the two cans of nuclear sunshine opened up in Mare Nostrum did the trick. The Wamda rendered the idea of having a strong American-aligned outpost to enforce interests near the Suez in particular and MENA in general a non-starter. The OTL US is (for the most part) significantly less unhinged and more pragmatic than its TLM iteration and it isn't going to hitch itself to a pipe dream at best, not when there are more viable groups to align themselves with against the UAR.
That doesn't mean it will cut AIPAC off entirely nor will it mean AIPAC will die off on its own, mind you. The government still need ways to make sure (particularly younger) Jewish-Americans remain "loyal" and don't become an entryway for left-wing politics when they interact with their Jumhuriyyat counterparts, learn more about the world they came from and understand there's a future beyond Zionism (the feeling of betrayal, especially, has radicalizing potential). For the US's part, the idea of re-establishing a Jewish state in its "ancestral land" is something to dangle as a carrot over anti-communist Jews for when the prison of nations finally collapses. Eventually. But they won't be the only ones in line.
Worth pointing out that after the 1948 War, Israel was specifically reinforced by Western European powers as a means to control the Suez even after the retreat of the British and French from their mandates in the region. The loss of Israel (and a divided Middle East in general) means the US and its allies are going to scramble to find alternatives to the Suez, which the UAR absolutely can and will use as leverage in all their future dealings with the imperialists.
That doesn't mean it will cut AIPAC off entirely nor will it mean AIPAC will die off on its own, mind you. The government still need ways to make sure (particularly younger) Jewish-Americans remain "loyal" and don't become an entryway for left-wing politics when they interact with their Jumhuriyyat counterparts, learn more about the world they came from and understand there's a future beyond Zionism (the feeling of betrayal, especially, has radicalizing potential). For the US's part, the idea of re-establishing a Jewish state in its "ancestral land" is something to dangle as a carrot over anti-communist Jews for when the prison of nations finally collapses. Eventually. But they won't be the only ones in line.
Worth pointing out that after the 1948 War, Israel was specifically reinforced by Western European powers as a means to control the Suez even after the retreat of the British and French from their mandates in the region. The loss of Israel (and a divided Middle East in general) means the US and its allies are going to scramble to find alternatives to the Suez, which the UAR absolutely can and will use as leverage in all their future dealings with the imperialists.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
I think my main objection to that is this: How long is it going to take the UAT to realize the rules are changed, and they're dealing with people who'd sell out their supposed interests get a participant in the intentional process that makes usual bevy of financial metrics go up.
Like, think of the Strait of Hormuz. It's still being used. Many navies are using the place as a giant practice ground for shooting down drones and missiles… yet the Houthi Rebels are claiming they're going to lock it down against "Israeli" shipping.
The Ex-Royal Navy is going to put some hurt feelings into that process but I just don't see the IAR turning into Wakanda here.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm not sure how Wikipedia is getting those percentages, considering that the number of Jews in Israel and the US is around equal (and you can see that in that article's chart). It's still a significant amount, but not literally more than three quarters of Jews worldwide. This article by Pew gives 41% each for Israel and the US in 2012, and 18% for the rest of the world.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Huh, my bad for not properly looking at the information. I mostly just grabbed the percentages and said 'good enough.' Looking at it a bit, it seems those numbers are meant to represent 'percentage of this region's population that is Jewish,' rather than 'this is a percentage of total Jewish people in the world.' Bad reading and sourcing on my part.