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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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T. T. Circe said:
You know made me think about summoning the other Ruler of the Wild Hunt
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Francis Drake being summoned is possible, but Olga Marie would be firmly against the notion; after all, what are the odds of having to travel to another Singularity that is mainly ocean? :p

...well, depending on how events progress and/or the World itself having a backup option to ensure an Alien / Foreign God / Beast VII without needing Olga-Marie to suffer as a host of course.

EDIT: My brain was on the fritz earlier, so I missed the all-too-obvious; Chaldea already has a Captain of a sea-going ship present in Sam Bellamy; Drake would only be excess, in the Director's opinion.
 
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lancelot said:
Holy shit you dragged this out, you could see this coming a couple of chapters ago, with how obvious it was. The entire chapter, doubly so when Disney was brought made me feel like Taylor and the rest were idiots. The moment the Wolf could be hurt by the ax it was obvious what was going on.

Please for now on don't try to make the drama more dramatic exchange for making the main characters more stupid.
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I have a saying/phrase for times like this, well me and my sibling: "Blind man sees nothing."

It's about being so focused on a specific mindset that one misses the blindingly obvious. We tell it to each other when one of us finds an answer/solution so blindingly obvious that it makes the other which missed it look stupid. So the phrase is our way of pointing to each other that a different paradigm is/was needed to find an answer/solution.

Like how Rika was the one to figure out how to hurt the Evil Fairy even if all that did was stun her. No one here is stupid, it's just that even with the full expectations of the Servant they were facing Taylor was stuck in the expectations of a Magus/Master of Chaldea alongside Ritsuka and Rika wasn't.

All those pop culture references and irreverence towards the big words and the Singularities and the end of the world now comes back to Rika being the person thinking about the sort of information that was needed to defeat Maleficent's dragon form.

It's a case of the plucky comic relief starting to turn into a battle jester instead of being killed or turning into another serious person in a sea of them. Goetia is cheating to get his/their plan to work trough some game-/story-breaking powers and putting down Maleficent on the path of your average Magus would get them either deeply frustrated or killed.

Rika literally bought time here for Taylor's plan to work better than Taylor expected it to. The twist isn't that it was Maleficent or that she didn't die from that Disney stunt, the twist was that Rika took initiative in this battle.
 
readerdreamer said:
And the amazing thing is that even with all this, Perrault is still basically a discount Scheherazade. As the foremost and most known storyteller of mythological origin, Schez can not only summon anything from the entirety of her One Thousand and One Nights, she could also append other tales from other authors to her list as necessary and even modify stories to her liking.
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Honestly that makes me wonder if Schez is a natural counter to literary Servants like Alice and now Perrault. If she can incorporate the story of the literary creatures into her NP, added with her having much more Mystery than either example, she could very well create weaknesses in the familiars.
 
Let's face facts; as far as canon F/GO is concerned? Proto!Arthur might as well be Moedred's actual father, Lalter memes aside.

...then again? Given how Proto!Mordred supposedly* turned out (100% yandere for him) because Male!Chichi-ue was attentive...

* - Granted, I haven't personally read Fragments of Sky Silver, which is supposed to be the prequel to Fate/Prototype.
 
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Parks_98 said:
Oh joy the most pointless Saber Face in all of FGO

I'm pretty sure most of the fandom has legit forgotten that Lalter even exist especially since as fans as I can recall the only story moments (in both the main story and events) are:
-Getting beat up by Mordred
-Becoming a hikkiomori during the Garden of Sinners event
-Her playing the role of the bull demon king in Journey to the West event
-Helping in the Temple of Time
-Gets killed in Olympus

That is literally all she's done as far as I can remember
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Turn SafeSearch off. The fandom remembers her, for at least two big reasons.
 
Junkoposter said:
A reminder that, canonically, after Solomon and farming the shit out of so many Demon Pillars, the Guda's have a conceptual advantage against them.
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Speaking of which... given atemporal shenanigans regarding the Throne of Heroes (re: whether 'canon' has already occurred and thus the Guda(s) legend of being 'THE Demon God Pillar Slayer and Mats Farmer(s) w/o Equal'), would this Ritsuka and/or Rika already have the conceptual advantage? Or is it more 'different world-line / Tree of Time, thus they need to establish their own legend beforehand'?
 
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TimeDiver said:
Speaking of which... given atemporal shenanigans regarding the Throne of Heroes (re: whether 'canon' has already occurred and thus the Guda(s) legend of being 'THE Demon God Pillar Slayer and Mats Farmer(s) w/o Equal'), would this Ritsuka and/or Rika already have the conceptual advantage? Or is it more 'different world-line / Tree of Time, thus they need to establish their own legend beforehand'?
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I don't think it works like that for this stuff given the whole erases them from the throne stuff.
 
Junkoposter said:
More talking about later during the Journey to the West event.

Mom's the shit out of Mordred with Nightingale.
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Its been a hot minute so I'm blanking out on a ton of stuff (I swear FGO should give us the option to replay events using Rare Prism's) but weren't a ton of the servants we encounter fight (like Medusa and her sisters) possessed or something as playing the characters.

Though NGL seeing Mordred have some parents who aren't absolutely terrible is a pleasant sight.
Dmol8 said:
And then corrects herself as I am not her father/parent as I am now.
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Even if she's only a "what if/possibility" of Artoria she's still a version of Artoria.
 
It makes sense Emiya didn't make the connection to Zouken, because why would he be thinking about him now? Not like he brought out his bugs, and I don't think he ever figured out his backstory? And Tohsaka got summoned from before they met. But Da Vinci shoud have had a reaction there? And maybe Zolgen could have recognised Tohsaka himself? It's just a bit of an anticlimax there, that's all.

And, yes, Rika is finally taking the field! Ritsuka had already started making tactical decissions, but Rika had stayed passive pretty far outside of the socials. This is excellent growth, and I hope this gives her the confidence to take center stage more often, she's got a sharp mind but she'd stalled a bit behind her brother.
 
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GagarTheLizard28 said:
It makes sense Emiya didn't make the connection to Zouken, because why would he be thinking about him now? Not like he brought out his bugs, and I don't think he ever figured out his backstory? And Tohsaka fot summoned from before they met. But Da Vinci shoud have had a reaction there? And maybe Zolgen could have recognised Tohsaka himself? It's just a bit of an anticlimax there, that's all.

And, yes, Rika is finally taking the field! Ritsuka had already started making tactical decissions, but Rika had stayed passive pretty far outside of the socials. This is excellent growth, and I hope this gives her the confidence to take center stage more often, she's got a sharp mind but she'd stalled a bit behind her brother.
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Emiya's memories of his life are Swiss cheese. This question came up to Nasu ages and ages ago, where someone asked how much of Emiya's "amnesia" in canon was real and how much was him just pretending, and the answer Nasu gave is that Emiya...doesn't actually have clear memories of the inhabitants of Fuyuki. I think the exact question was about whether or not he recognized Rin, and Nasu said that Emiya only vaguely remembered her. When she introduces herself after he's summoned, he goes to himself, "Ah, that's right, her name was Rin."

So when Emiya says that line about, "Wait a minute, I recognize that seaweed hair!" he's talking about a vague memory he has about Shinji. Canonically, Emiya comes from an unspecified route that "resembles" Fate route, and at some point, he fought something "like" the Shadow from HF route, so we can infer that, if he knows Zouken at all, he probably wouldn't recognize "Makiri Zolgen" outside of the resemblance to a kid he used to be friends with when he was a teenager.

EDIT: I double-checked. The thing about Rin comes from 'side material' and is really old lore. Slightly more details come from an interview that got published with the release of the first HF movie, where Nasu specified that Emiya's only concrete memories from HGW5 are of Saber.

Fate/stay night Heaven's Feel I. presage flower Animation Material said:
Nasu: That Archer only has "memories of Saber" when it concerns the Holy Grail War. When he was summoned, seeing his summoned before him, he started to acknowledge things around Rin as "his own things." The inner dealings of the Matou clan is something he didn't know before turning into a Servant, and Sakura's current circumstances were something he deduced after being summoned for the Holy Grail War. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he would assist Sakura. Archer is Archer. It's not the guy.
Takeuchi: He remembers just Saber… you're talking about the opening scene in the original game.
Nasu: It's not that he clearly remembers details. His memories are vague, and at the point where he was assigned as a guardian, his memories are all blended together chaotically regardless of past or future. So, he no longer has the sensation of "what he feels is beautiful" anymore. Just think the "first contact with Saber" was something engraved into his soul as an Art Graph. Also, how that young man met Saber and how he was involved is something completely different from that in stay night.
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Fate/side material said:
Archer [Servant]
Heroic Spirit of the bow. The basic abilities of these Servants tended to be low, but they compensated with Skills and Noble Phantasms.
The Archer in this story was no exception, he engaged in combat with unidentified Noble Phantasms.
A thoroughly cynical pragmatist... but even so, he had an oddly childish personality that no one could hate.
His real identity was ???. He was such an important character in the story, you could call him the shadow protagonist. Half of Fate could be called his story.
At the beginning of the game, Archer claimed his memory was confused due to incomplete summon. This was half-truth.
On the night of the summoning, Archer assessed the situation and deduced the current circumstances. He believed that he would have the opportunity to achieve his goal.
At the instant Rin introduced herself, Archer believed the girl who summoned him was "Tohsaka Rin" (not due to his memory being confused, but the name Tohsaka Rin being worn off).
At that moment, Archer recalled like a jolt of lightning:

"-------Rin. Ah, that's the name------"

Archer murmured this under his breath at that time. It was truly from his heart and filled with much endearment close to insanity.
... There were much foreshadowing in the story besides this instance, but they were all limited except for the post-Saber vs. Berserker narration.
Due to the rebound of some magecraft, his skin turned dark... something like that.
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Damn, his Counter Guardian duties are really hard on his memories then. Say what you will about Shirou, but he's a stubborn motherfucker, broken ideals or not.

All that being said, Chaldean Emiya is confirmed to have been summoned after the events of Stay Night, specifically from the UBW route. He's also alluded to have memories of his Class Card iteration through an interaction with Miyu, so maybe there's a slight composite aspect? Overall, he's an entirely different beast to the original cynical Archer of the Fifth War, falling in with familiar faces, comfortable environments, and the general humanitarian aims of the Chaldeans.

…he's still Archer at the end of the day though, renewed outlook or no. He'll rag on Shirou any day of the week, end a fight as quickly as he can, and avoid Cu and Gil like the plague.
 
Zakara said:
…he's still Archer at the end of the day though, renewed outlook or no. He'll rag on Shirou any day of the week, end a fight as quickly as he can, and avoid Cu and Gil like the plague.
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The best part about this is how he said that line: "I don't get along with gold Archers and blue Lancers". You can easily interpret it as Gil and Cu... but then again, Ishtar (using Rin as a vessel) is a gold Archer while Parvati (using Sakura as a vessel) is a blue Lancer, too. One might think it's an allusion to his trouble with women.
 
Something to remember about Servants is that in a proper Holy Grail War they don't keep the memories. There has been nothing proper about Holy Grail Wars from the start. Also Rin fucked with timelines in Fate/Apocrypha so Archer keeping his memories from UBW might be because of that or because Shirou and he got such a fundamental connection in that fight that it stuck with him.

On top of that each Servant summoned represents a facet of the original Hero on the Throne and while some Servants get summoned as they were back when they were alive, most are only parts of a person that fit into the Servant container.

Gilgamesh is different depending on which container he is summoned in, but he still remembers his whole self and has access to it and his Noble Phanthasms from the Throne.

Artoria as a Saber is just her own regrets summoned into a War. It's why she's so different from the King Arthur of legend even in the Type Moon version of said legend. Alter is the dark side of Artoria's heart where her hatred and rage she suppressed in Life get literally manifested by Holy Grail Mud dialed up to 11 and metaphorically the key gets broken in the lock to insure that Saber is on the same page as Avenger. Lily is Artoria's hopes and dreams, who she wanted to be before becoming King and living past Camlann. Card is just Saber but in the back seat of someone's mind.

Artoria Lancers are not the same person. Regular Lancer is the Artoria who suceeded without becoming the Lion King, so someone from a different timeline, while Alter Lancer is the Lion King's own hatred for being turned into the Lion King in the first place given form.

Archer Emiya on the other hand is an existence on the other side of the spectrum. It is implied in the subtext of modern Fate that Archer, Nameless and Alter are all the same Shirou Emiya but split between the focus of Desolation, Might and Mind. Basically Fate/Stay Night Archer is the Mercenary lost in the Desert constantly damned to fight those no longer considered human, Extella's Nameless Archer is the Hero sentenced for his actions to fight in the Arena and F/GO's Alter is the Mindless Beast fighting because He Is a Fighter.

Whether the three Archers existed in life as the same Shirou Emiya or are born of different forks in the road of life that Emiya took is right now an academic question. Nasu may answer it down the line, but the end result is the same.
 
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