....
...I'm pretty sure Heracles disagrees with you
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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]
- Thread starter James D. Fawkes
- Start date
- Crossover
James D. Fawkes
Court Scribe
- Location
- Avalon (Isle of Mists)
Yes. Nasu says this about why no one directly targets Illya in HGW5. It's not that Illya isn't squishy, it's that Herk will never, no matter what it costs him or what condition he might be in, let you get even close to hitting her. As long as Herk is there, Illya is functionally unkillable for enemy Masters and Servants.
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Their
Berserker Heracles might not be terribly coherent, or in full possession of his wits, but it's always good to remember that the Greek God Of Strength completed a fair number of his mortal labors by being smart or cunning. If he can sense you going after him or someone he wants/needs alive, even if it's through his Eye Of The Mind, he's going to do everything in his power to keep you from doing so. And courtesy of Madness Enhancement, 'everything in his power' is a very high bar to pass.
Stahor
BookWorm
- Location
- Russia, Moscow
But you have the scene where Herc dodges JAlter stakes and then Taylor has enough time to communicate with Siegfried. And in addiction time took to regen from legs up. This window could be used by everyone else to attack Jason.
Spear. Almost none of the 'lancer' class actually use lances, as those are specifically cavalry weapons.
Sorry, that just bugs me. It was a fun chapter, and I find myself hoping Herk is down now. You're already changing canon, why not one more thing? It wouldn't be the first time Emiya took that many lives from Herk.
MWKillKenny84
Lurking from the Trauma Switch.
- Location
- Vado Ligure
And in some cases, even if he's not there in person (Magical Girl Illya is an example: barring one case, every Berserker Class user have a max time limit for how much they can have the Card Installed... sans Illya when she's using the Herakles Card, because she has such an affinity that Herk supports her even if he's not physically present).
It's not that they have a max time it's that the berserker cards have madness enhancement and there's only so long magecraft measures and the sticks can protect the users sanity. Herk helped Illya push past that and delay the automatic eject system they'd set up for a short amount of time so she could save someone and it wasn't just her either Beatrice was the original user and is the only one to have survived losing to Shirou because Herk used God Hand to save her.
- Location
- SoCal
You're missing the point. During one of those times while Herk was a pile of gore and everyone was standing around watching to see if he would get up Mr 10K arrows per second could have been attacking those two.
- Location
- western US
considering how fast these fights are. this should basically be impossable for herk to stop even WITHOUT being in bits.
how is he supposed to stop MULTIPLE servents of a similar speed-level (including ranged ones!) going after two squishies from multiple angles and ranges?
even if he glued himself to them, jason should be dead already even with whats-her-name helping (which she appears to not be capable of anyway because the arrows already had to get body-blocked by herk even to the loss of a killing blow).
- Location
- Australia
I would go out on a limb and say that no one wants to turn their back to Herks, it's hard enough to fight him when your facing him, imagine when your trying to stab an idiot.
- Location
- United States
There is another reason they likely don't focus Jason. To make sure he stays.
If Herc is thoroughly pinned due to needing to shield Jason, eventually Jason is gonna retreat. He's not stupid. Cowardly and arrogant, Yes. But not stupid. Once it becomes clear that he's handicapping Heracles, he'll retreat. And nobody wants that because if he does, he'd be able to use the grail to restore Herc's lost lives. Since he can regain those lives if given the Magical energy and Jason has the grail.
Plus, it also gives Jason the opportunity to summon more Servants. And if he had to retreat even WITH Heracles at his side, he's gonna do it.
It's the definition of "Do well, but not perfect."
- Location
- western US
except they could just kill him is my point.
even WITH herc there. he is barely able to protect jason/medea.
imagine if the arrows came at them from two angles at once? no position would let him block both at the same time let alone while stopping 3 melee-specialists from gutting them. LET ALONE while herc is dead.
oops. jason's dead now, so now herc's master is gone.
not much point in worrying about jason retreating when you could just kill him and be done with the entire situation.
that they have the numbers advantage means that herc is the one at the disadvantage in keeping his master alive--- even if hes littearlly 3 times as fast as any one of them (and based on how much back-and-forth he's having to do, thats not even close to being true) and thats assuming all of them were melee-focused ---which they AREN'T.
oh and I ALSO would point out that he was VISIBLY recovering to mortal eyes. that means it takes AT LEAST a split second to revive which is MORE then enough for freaking HALF A DOZEN A-class servants (including ranged ones!) to gut jason AND medea COMPLETELY and still be ready to stop him from doing any revenge killing (again, the archers wouldn't even have to move to gut jason/medea even if the melee folks somehow coulden't move fast enough, --which isn't the case anyway since they have multiple times been described as moving fast enough to be beyond mortal sight)
at the least, medea should be using some kind of slowing/force spell or something around the two of them to make it more clear why they can't just be killed in less then a split second.
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one thing to consider is that jason is no slouch, dude's got B+ agility and was trained by Chiron, under the right circumstances he's even faster than heracles, meaning that at the very least, odds are he can keep himself from dying until heracles ressurects, hell, he even has a skill for thinking his way out of just that kind of predicament where he's outnumbered but has to buy time, targetting jason while heracles regens is the smart thing to do, but its also playing into the situations where jason is at his best.
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^ that Jason may not be the most absurd servant that can survive a sustain barrage from multiple archers focusing on him but just long enough for Beserkales to revive is very much doable
Everyone's talking about how they should have targeted Jason, but he and Medea together should be able to avoid a lethal hit for at least a little bit, and for everyone pointing out that Herakles can't protect them while he's regenerating, there is actually a canon reason why that wouldn't work.
Because he's motherf@#$ing Herakles.
And that's not entirely a joke. He is the strongest and most famous Hero in all of History, and as UBW has shown us, Herk is able to push past what few limits he has when he's pissed off/wilful enough. Hell, he was able to break out of an Anti-Divine chain and still for a second despite losing his Master and already technically being dead. Not dying, dead.
Now imagine what he could accomplish while he's still got at least 1 life left in the tank.
Because he's motherf@#$ing Herakles.
And that's not entirely a joke. He is the strongest and most famous Hero in all of History, and as UBW has shown us, Herk is able to push past what few limits he has when he's pissed off/wilful enough. Hell, he was able to break out of an Anti-Divine chain and still for a second despite losing his Master and already technically being dead. Not dying, dead.
Now imagine what he could accomplish while he's still got at least 1 life left in the tank.
Stahor
BookWorm
- Location
- Russia, Moscow
Point here is not succeeding, point here is trying. So entire cast of characters don't look like they just chill if camera not on them.
fair, could've maybe added that artemis and atalanta or something were shooting at jason and medea and they were protecting themselves with spells and such, jason is probably at the point where he can parry arrows even fired by those 2, so it wouldn't be that wierd, and would explain what they're both doing this fight, with arash pushing over the edge of what they can handle
Atalanta wouldn't have been shooting at Jason because at full draw her shots are A rank which is why she waited and picked her moment to get Herk in an eye to claim a life.
- Location
- Colorado
I'm fine with Francis Drake being a Pioneer of the Stars and being capable of all kinds of complete bullshit, but I draw the line at being able to defeat Neil Armstrong, with any version of Shinji as her master, on the fucking Moon.
Sorry for quoting you out of nowhere, but someone liked a post of mine on this page and reminded me of this.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Since he's made by the Moon Cell, I think he wouldn't get a Conceptual Advantage unless on a lunar surface area the Moon Cell set up. Since allowing that would be showing favoratism and as far as I can tell the Moon Cell is decidedly neutral in it's role as facilitator of the HGW.
- Location
- Colorado
Even if the environment didn't give either one an advantage that still doesn't explain how Drake overcame the handicap of having Shinji as a master. The only master who might be less competent than him is Tokiomi, and at least that guy can toss fireballs at people.
And from a Doylist perspective I'm not forgiving them for bringing Neil Armstrong to the Moon just to kill him offscreen with Drake and Shinji.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Arcueid got such an advantage. Namely, the Moon Cell didn't delete her upon defeat unlike every other defeated Servant. She'd have had even more of an advantage if her master hadn't been a total dumbass who had no idea who and what she really was.