Considering that Harry saw things from Nagini's point of view when she attacked Arthur Weasley, I'd say that Voldemort wasn't just directing her with his thoughts but possessing her which might only have been possible because he'd put a piece of his soul in her. Parseltongue would only work if Voldemort and the snake were in the same place which doesn't appear to have been the case for that incident.
Harry Potter and the Skittering Spouse
- Thread starter Fencer
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy Superhero
- Location
- The City of Tears, Hallownest
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's pretty clear a wizard can give Delayed/Long term commands to a snake using Parseltongue. But regardless, "remote control snake" is really not worth cutting off part of your soul.
FullNothingness
Mostly DHMO.
First off comparing the diary with the other hocruxes like that is not exactly fair. The diary had months of getting powered up happen before all its impressive actions happened. All indications are that at the start of its run all it could do was write back to people who wrote in it and feed on them if they did so.
Also it is entirely possible that Voldemort did in fact know more about immortality than just how to make hocruxes. After all, he did seem to have knowledge on how to possess people as a spirit, sustain himself/his host on unicorn blood and know how to do at least one ritual to regain a body (I'd guess he would have had a backup in case someone vanished his father's corpse or for when it eventually decayed to nothingness). None of these are likely to be common knowledge. He could know more things too that he didn't end up using.
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Ace Dreamer
Verified Reality User
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- Between The Unknown & The Known
I've seen it suggested that he created his first Horcrux by accident. And, that his 'research' was about trying to figure-out what happened. Arguably his best one was Harry Potter's scar, which was protected by prophecy, and that was also by accident!
So, maybe, the whole business of making horcruxes is almost a trap for those seeking 'quick routes to immortality'?
Sounds like the sort of really dark 'joke' some of the darkest of the dark would find really amusing... And would carefully put into their 'most secret and esoteric' writings...
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I've seen more than one fanfic where the ritual Tommy found was a debased/incomplete version of the original creation of Herpo, that "leaked" when one of Herpo's acolytes/test subjects escaped with partial notes, so that's always a possibility too. The most recent one I saw had Herpo living right into the modern day, having used his private island as his anchor.
Similarly, I've also seen ones where the thinks are inherently dangerous because your mind and soul are intrinsically linked and therefore splitting one splits the other, potentially driving you insane (as if people seeking this kind of junk are "sane" to start with but that's a separate conundrum) and/or emphasising traits that were your focus during the ritual.
Anyway, the point was that it doesn't have to be a deliberate action for the ritual to become a trap of sorts. Especially if you go ham on the things and create seven….
Similarly, I've also seen ones where the thinks are inherently dangerous because your mind and soul are intrinsically linked and therefore splitting one splits the other, potentially driving you insane (as if people seeking this kind of junk are "sane" to start with but that's a separate conundrum) and/or emphasising traits that were your focus during the ritual.
Anyway, the point was that it doesn't have to be a deliberate action for the ritual to become a trap of sorts. Especially if you go ham on the things and create seven….
- Location
- New England
Honestly at this point I'm not sure why they're even bothering with the horcruxes. Like, yeah they're good for super-permanently ending him, but as our favorite couple pointed out obliviating him until he forgets how to breath is just as good, and you need to destroy his body if you want to end him permanently anyway so it's not like hitting him with a spell is an extra burden...
I almost want to see a fic with Herpo the Foul, except he was called that because of his poor hygiene, not for making WMDs for his people and discovering a method of immortality that (in this scenario) was a more moral and palatable version of a pre-existing method.
Just something about it amuses me
Just something about it amuses me
Ace Dreamer
Verified Reality User
- Location
- Between The Unknown & The Known
They don't know if he might have some more immortality tricks in play, as well as horcruxes. Why only use one method, if you know more? So, at the very least, 'more research is required'. And, yes, taking a few of his followers, questioning them really carefully, checking where they might be hiding 'stuff' for him? Does that sound a bad idea?
Him coming back for the next generation, or the one after that, doesn't sound ideal...
You could have him being Argus Filch, with some really careful charms so that he only realises that he's Herpo, every so often, in safe (or really desperate) circumstances, as he checks if anything interesting is going on...
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SemiSaneAuthor
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- Sol-3, Memetic Quarantined World - For English
- Pronouns
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It could be the diminishing amount of soul in each Horcrux meant it could only do so much.
While there could also be symbolisim in the magic. The first Horcrux, if it was Myrtle, would have been the First Horcrux he made. And have more a symbolic weight, while the second's creation (if it was the second) was the murder of his father along with his grandparents which would probably have more of a symbolic weight.
But, as a notion? What if he created The Diary and The Ring Horcuxes at the same time? When murdering his Muggle Family? It would explain how The Diary had the memories of going after Aragog to frame Hagrid. I mean there were four people he murdered at the same time. And the symbolic weight of murdering family could allow for those two Horcruxes being special.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- She/They
It means you need to take him alive/get rid of his defenses, if only for a very brief moment.
So you can't roll up to the wizarding IRA and find someone willing to assassinate an English fascist with a magical car bomb. Or imperius the RAF into dropping a missile on his hideout. You know, reasonable things like that.
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- Location
- New England
I mean DD is definitely going to insist they offer all the death eaters a last chance before stunning them, so Mr. and Mrs.
- Location
- Washington DC
It honestly baffles me how this interpretation of goblins became so prevalent in fanon. As far as we know the goblins don't care what are in the vaults as long as they are not goblin made (and apparently they don't both to check much, if at all, since Bellatrix felt safe hiding what she thought was the goblin-forged sword of Gryffindor in her vault). In other words, the idea that the goblins would give a rat's ass what the wizards stored in the vaults they guard seems pretty unsupported to me.
The idea that they would hate soul jars in particular also makes no sense to me. Dark wizards store all sorts of dark/cursed objects in goblin vaults with no issues, why would horcruxes be any different? As long as whatever it is stays inside the vault, and no goblin goes into the vault (which they might be able to do without the vault key, but probably not), they don't have a reason to care.
Frankly, given goblin attitudes towards wizards and the Ministry, and later the Voldemort controlled Ministry, the Goblins are a lot more likely to bow to whomever has the power to force them into compliance, and take pleasure in opposing anyone without such power. Supporting a private militia in the form of the Order seems incredibly unlikely to me, let alone backing a couple of kids with no political power whatsoever.
The goblins have an interest in maintaining the sanctity of their client's vaults, no matter what is in them. If wizards learn that the goblins can go into the vaults and confiscate magical artifacts or gold within, there would be a run on the bank as wizards started to fear the goblins rummaging through (and stealing/confiscating) their personal treasures. So even if the goblins knew there was a goblin artifact or horcrux in a vault, they probably would still guard the thing religiously if only to protect their own reputation as the most (or second most) secure place for treasure in the magical world (at least in Britain).
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Ace Dreamer
Verified Reality User
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- Between The Unknown & The Known
Is this the critical issue? If what is in that vault starts affecting the contents of other vaults, and the magicals who own those vaults find out, aren't the goblins in trouble?
As long as there's no cross-vault contamination, and horcruxes or similar aren't something the goblins are concerned about, I could see them saying (as seems in character for a lot of the Magical World), "Not my circus, not my monkeys".
On the other hand, if they are paid enough, and it doesn't affect other parts of their business...
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Not sure if this was mentioned, but remove Dumbledore and QA, and this is technically the background plot to the Light Novel series "Didn't I say to Make my abilities average in my next life." Just be aware it can get kind of cringe at times, and the AI fake all the magic
Or if you can find a forward-looking goblin who can be persuaded that Voldemort (or whoever) is eventually going to set his sights on all the goblin-guarded gold that isn't his, you might be able to persuade them to intervene.
Not that anyone in the Order ever tried talking to them as people rather than slightly officious furniture of course. But the Order are/were just as racist as the rest of the purebloods; just in a different direction.
Different direction? They just express it differently.
''Mum's cousin is an accountant, but we don't talk about him'' comes to mind. Clearly a squib cousin, I suppose they didn't kill him as Lucy Malfoy probably would have, so there is that.
Or maybe how most Weasleys treated Fleur?
The Longbottoms in their various attempts to abuse Neville into using magic. Though I think only Frank and Alice were ever members. So that one might not count
''Mum's cousin is an accountant, but we don't talk about him'' comes to mind. Clearly a squib cousin, I suppose they didn't kill him as Lucy Malfoy probably would have, so there is that.
Or maybe how most Weasleys treated Fleur?
The Longbottoms in their various attempts to abuse Neville into using magic. Though I think only Frank and Alice were ever members. So that one might not count
Kinsfire
Verified {Redacted}
- Location
- New Jersey
My take on why they'd find it offensive is that the very first book makes it clear that they consider security to be paramount, and that they do NOT like thieves. Someone has left a piece of their soul in one of their vaults. How do they know that they thing isn't designed to generate a body out of whatever is at hand (such as gold and such) and create a brand new body with which to commit thievery? Even if they don't know much about horcruxes, the concept that an individual left the ability to violate the sanctity of their vaults within one of their vaults? THAT would offend them, and possibly get them to at least listen to the individual who made them aware. Maybe even cut a hundredth of a percent point from any interest they charge.
Ace Dreamer
Verified Reality User
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- Between The Unknown & The Known
Hmm. Do you think Taylor could sell them on Spiders being a good covert security measure to go with their overt dragonic one? Loyal (well-fed, comfortably-housed) acromantula might not be a stupid idea.
And, once Taylor finds-out about Hagrid's abilities to 'enhance' creatures, would enhanced (invisible? phasing?), intelligent, spiders look even more attractive? Of course, the goblins would want a really solid handle on loyalty issues...
- Pronouns
- He
I had I thought what if this is the reason Dementors where tolerated. Because if you had Dark lords floating around I say that's Dementors bate.
- Location
- Sydney
There's actually a one-shot about this concept Saved by the Goblins. It has the goblins heavily prize there reputations but learnt the hard way that occasionally wizards put artefacts and tools in their vaults that can assist in break ins.
So in order to protect there reputations they occasional open up the vaults illegally to double check there's nothing too concerning within. Obviously they keep this protocol very quiet and primarily do it when there otherwise suspicious. Its implied they normally don't actually touch the contents but in this case they remove the Horcrux.
Not because of any moral objection like most fanfic suggest but because of the risk. They believe that any soul that's learnt to exist without a body has a decent potential to be able to become body snatcher. They fear it could not only possess the guards for a break in but potentially the upper management of the bank and cause all sorts of economic chaos.
The really amusing thing is they were never actually aware of whose Horcrux they destroyed until much later.
Ace Dreamer
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- Between The Unknown & The Known
If someone got awkward, the goblins could point-out a really obscure clause in the contract, possibly referencing Bank Regulations, about 'discrete inspections to ensure the safety of the Bank'...
Also, if the goblins have really good artificers, or have ancient strange artifacts, maybe they've got something like a 'Spirit Knife'? This might allow them to cut spirits out of 'cursed' objects, hopefully leaving the other enchantments (particularly if they're a lot older/distinctly different) on the object intact...
Maybe they've got a set of goblin-silver bottles, that they've collected such spirits in, over the centuries?
Pure speculation!
- Location
- Washington DC
Well, first of all the goblins would not know or care exactly what was in the vault. Second, the "security" for most of the higher security vaults basically amounts to 'anyone who is good enough to sneak past guards, dragons, and Thief's Downfall can get in, but nothing is getting out until either the owner opens the vault, or the goblins check for thieves once every decade or so'. So even if they knew what a horcrux was, knew one was in a vault, and had some reason to think that the Horcrux could essentially conduct its own resurrection ritual alone inside a warded vault, so what? Now you've got a thief stuck inside a warded vault, exactly where the goblins want the skilled thieves to be. Sure, maybe in a worst case scenario you have a dark lord in a vault, but even then you have a dark lord imprisoned in a goblin vault with no way out. As far as the goblins are concerned, that's poetic justice.
A thief or an idiot who puts themselves into a goblin prison is hardly threatening the sanctity of Gringotts unless the item was put in there by someone other than the vault's owner. And again, if there's no way out, any damage a thief could do from inside the most heavily warded cells in the bank would be limited to their own property, which rather defeats the purpose. Even if someone was tricked into putting something into a vault that let a thief steal from that vault, that's the owner's responsibility. The goblins wouldn't care since they are not responsible for whatever is inside the vaults, only guarding them.
If someone came to the goblins and told them 'hey, there's this artifact in one of your vaults that could release a dark lord into your bank' the goblins would just ask if the artifact could give the dark lord a wand and 10 years of food too. Because without those things, he might get out of the horcrux, but he's not getting out of the vault, so they wouldn't care.
SemiSaneAuthor
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- Location
- Sol-3, Memetic Quarantined World - For English
- Pronouns
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I'd like to point out Godric's Sword with Basilisk Venom imbuement in it struck against the ring destroyed The Horcrux but left the Hallow intact. The explicit Goblin Silver Sword as a thing. They probably have a bunch of said swords and daggers hanging around for various, Goblin War, related reasons. If they also know about Horcruxes then it's another reason to keep them around.
- Location
- Dublin, Ireland
It was the basilisk venom part that made the sword capable of destroying a horcrux, not the goblin silver. So unless the goblins have a bunch of similarly imbued weapons hanging around they won't help much.
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- Location
- Malaysia
Honestly even if the Goblins did do inspections of vaults, I would not be surprised if Horcruxes by themselves are on the list of allowed items. Like maybe the vault gets marked as containing a Horcrux and as per protocol that means any goblins that walk near it have to undergo regular testing to make sure they aren't possessed, but I don't think they would actually destroy it unless said Horcrux is literally eating into the walls of the vault or something similar.
So something like the Horcrux that got dumped into a vault and remained inert for a good 16 years? Perfectly fine. No issues.
So something like the Horcrux that got dumped into a vault and remained inert for a good 16 years? Perfectly fine. No issues.