Harry Potter and the Scabbard of Excalibur [AU]

[PickleJar]

Is there a different way we can learn to do a wandless Patronus?

Click to shrink...

Yes.

Not only that, but we will be able to choose our Patronus form via Gnosis.

Additionally, Birdsie confirmed that Patronus form = Animagus form, so I'd rather we invest in like a Phoenix Patronus and learn to turn into a Phoenix.


edit: Another good option would be to use our wandless, non-verbal magics to blindside Bellatrix.
Birdsie confirmed that she does not expect us to put a fight since we have been disarmed, so if we want to launch a sneak attack then we can distract her by talking and then just take her out we a well placed nonverbal, wandless fireball to the face (which is something that we can do since we practiced it on the train and thereafter)

 

[GoldExRoot]

Can we summon our Demon to help us

 

[OctarineShrike]

[X] Hold On...

 

[PickleJar]

Can we summon our Demon to help us

Click to shrink...

Assuming that we can, this is a game changer for sure.

Our demon can control light, right? If Ornias can flashbang Bellatrix and her partner then we might legitimately be able to take them out through a combination of setting them on fire, stabbing them with a transfigured sharp object, throwing them around with levitation or any other spell that we have in our arsenal.

 

[GoldExRoot]

Also according to discord the first time we cast the Patronus we will be able to spend gnosis to determine what animal it becomes, so we do not want to cast it with 0 gnosis in the bank

 

[_brightwing]

[X] Hold On...

Really solid game plan in Discord so far that seems to cover all the bases moving forward. We'll have a decent fighting option if diplomancy fails. Here's to hoping Harry aces his charisma check and not expose Geist though..

 

[GoldExRoot]

[X] Hold On...

 

[Qudrim8054]

I myself don't really want to join the Discord because every vote I see something that basically says how in Discord something was revealed that basically points to one option (or build) being the optimal choice, taking away from the element of what we want for our story as we basically just try to find the most optimal choice for the situation rather than just letting us take risks for what we like for a narrative.

I still thank for a lot of info from the Discord though, just wish that it wouldn't tilt the way voting changes too much.

 

[PickleJar]

I think that a good outline for a plan on the "Hold On" action would be something along the lines of:

1) Talk to Bellatrix, regurgitate Geist's propaganda and claim that you hate wizarding society and wish to reform it or other some such bullshit. Use this as an opportunity to stall for time while Ornias, Invisible via light manipulation, get in a line of sight with Bella's partner (he knows to not be seen by other people)

2) Inform her that you are willing to do anything in order to establish trust, including being put under the imperious curse.
Say some bullshit about how this is a matter of trust, and that if she can't trust you then maybe she can trust you when you are under her control, you are willing to extend this olive branch to her and to try and help her, and this shows your resolve etc etc.
Basically, try to bait her into using the Imperius curse.
Thanks to our "Boy who lived" trait the unforgivables, if cast on us, will rebound back to the caster at twice the power, meaning that if she casts it on us then it's pretty much game over for her - we can make her take out her death eater buddy, revive our fallen comrades, tell us all of her plans, and then either GTFO to disrupt whatever it is that they are doing or knock herself out with a stunner so that we can bring her in.

3) The instant she begins rejecting our proposal or explaining why we are an idiot, we immediately set her on fire wandlessly and non-verbally while ordering Ornias to use his light powers to flashbang her death eater buddy and, if possible, her as well (we will know to close our eyes since we control Ornias).
From that point we jump on Bella's arm as she is burning and try to tear away the wands from her, or use some of our wandless spells to keep burning her/levitating her to make her helpless while making Ornias distract the other Death eater (Illusions, light manipulations, turning us invisible, fucking lasers man I don't know) and then, assuming that we took out Bellatrix successfully, we either take out the other death eater while he is distracted or we take Bellatrix hostage to make him stand down/draw his attention so that Ornias can strike him down.


I think that, while this is a very rough idea, it's a very solid one.
We might need to change the order of our actions and how we engage the enemy specifically (particularly in relation to how Ornias can be used) but I think that the general idea of combining diplomacy, trickery and a surprise attack is a very solid one.

 

[Eaglelord]

[X] Hold On...

 

[TaliesinSkye]

Can we summon and instruct Ornias without any visible sign? I don't think we have telepathy.

Edit: We are immune to the 3 unforgiveables. I don't know if that's come up yet as a possible advantage in the character sheet that could be key.

 

[H2F2]

And why should we fight the death eaters? I mean, by starting a deadly fight, we will put Harry's friends at risk, and he himself will have a significant chance of getting long-term injuries.

Even if we defeat or chase away the death eaters, what will we get?

The first is the patronus, but, as already mentioned, the choice of patronus will also begin with the choice of an animagic form, and at the moment we do not have a drop of Gnosis, which cuts off the most useful and powerful forms from us.

Secondly, our memories will not be changed. But Harry has a Geist in his head who can retell the events or try to restore his memory.

What do we lose in the event of a struggle?

First, in addition to the potential death of friends and the loss of a powerful antimagic form, we lose contact with death eaters. And in this AU, the Dark Lord looks a little wiser than the canonical one, and it is quite possible that we will want to join his movement. But even if this is not the case, then, provided that the dialogue is conducted correctly, in the short term we get the opportunity to enter the black market, and in the long term we have the potential to seize control of the death eaters.

Secondly, the possibility of answers. Since Bellatrix is sure that we will soon lose our memory, she will not be careful in her words, and we have a chance to get answers.

Thirdly, by spending gnosis, we postpone the acquisition of skills that are synergistic for Harry, such as Dark Stars, which leaves us less time to learn, making us weaker. After all, despite the fact that patronus is a powerful spell, it is not related to our specializations.

 

[Valkhir]

[X] Hold On...

 

[Hasturtimesthree]

[X] Hold On...

Changing vote due to consideratons above.

 

[foveros]

[X] Hold On... - Ask her questions

Let's not go for the risky option when there seems to be no need. If we fight her off not only do we gain no knowledge, we lose the benefit of surprise and gain... What? A pride boost? Unlikely their plans will be disrupted that much at that point, and we don't even know if these plans are against us.

By the way, I'm not blaming us or anything because we weren't going prepared to fight an adult death eater with 7 years of Hogwarts training, battle training by a dark lord among others, and probably years of battle experience. However, if we do plan to go up against such an opponent as a first year, no matter how talented, we will lose unless we bring our strengths to bear against their weaknesses.

Dueling is out of the question but we do have a Greater or maybe Intermediate Demon under our command which will be an outside context problem for most wizards, especially combined with an invisible surprise attack. Also agree with leveraging magical equipment and maybe some muggle equipment too, though I don't suggest we walk around as a commando. Are bags of holding a thing in HPverse? I think Hermione had one in the later books?

 

[Hasturtimesthree]

[ ] Hold On... - Ask her questions

Let's not go for the risky option when there seems to be no need. If we fight her off not only do we gain no knowledge, we lose the benefit of surprise and gain... What? A pride boost? Unlikely their plans will be disrupted that much at that point, and we don't even know if these plans are against us.

By the way, I'm not blaming us or anything because we weren't going prepared to fight an adult death eater with 7 years of Hogwarts training, battle training by a dark lord among others, and probably years of battle experience. However, if we do plan to go up against such an opponent as a first year, no matter how talented, we will lose unless we bring our strengths to bear against their weaknesses.

Dueling is out of the question but we do have a Greater or maybe Intermediate Demon under our command which will be an outside context problem for most wizards, especially combined with an invisible surprise attack. Also agree with leveraging magical equipment and maybe some muggle equipment too, though I don't suggest we walk around as a commando. Are bags of holding a thing in HPverse? I think Hermione had one in the later books?

Click to shrink...

If you're attempting to vote for "Hold On", you need an X in the brackets.

Bags of Holding, I believe, are Mokeskin Pouches: Mokeskin pouch

 

[foveros]

Ah, thanks for that. Yeah, when we next have access to our bank account we should make some purchases. The pouch for example says it's rare so probably expensive but sounds very useful and can help us actually carry some useful equipment.

 

[OctarineShrike]

Dueling is out of the question but we do have a Greater or maybe Intermediate Demon under our command which will be an outside context problem for most wizards, especially combined with an invisible surprise attack. Also agree with leveraging magical equipment and maybe some muggle equipment too, though I don't suggest we walk around as a commando. Are bags of holding a thing in HPverse? I think Hermione had one in the later books?

Click to shrink...

Demons are part of the DADA curriculum. Counting on them as anything but support in a direct conflict against wizards won't end well.

 

[foveros]

They are? I think it was mentioned that they are very rare in modern days, and non-minor ones practically non-existent, so Ornias seems like an Outside Context Problem for most wizards.

I found the quote "Most of them are sadly lacking in power, though. Anyone on par with a Hogwarts Professor should be able to cope with a demon sicced on them" but since it just said that MOST of them are lacking in power I assumed they meant the scorpion wolf or the demon troll, not someone who hanged the stars up (probably hyperbole but still).

Still if I'm wrong I'm wrong. We still shouldn't fight adult wizards ourselves. This time there's a metacurrency cost so we "know" we'll win, but with unconscious friends around and the author proving already that deaths are not off limit, it's not a good idea. Hell, last time we met Bellatrix everyone within collateral radius died.

 

[OctarineShrike]

They are? I think it was mentioned that they are very rare in modern days, and non-minor ones practically non-existent, so Ornias seems like an Outside Context Problem for most wizards.

I found the quote "Most of them are sadly lacking in power, though. Anyone on par with a Hogwarts Professor should be able to cope with a demon sicced on them" but since it just said that MOST of them are lacking in power I assumed they meant the scorpion wolf or the demon troll, not someone who hanged the stars up (probably hyperbole but still).

Still if I'm wrong I'm wrong. We still shouldn't fight adult wizards ourselves. This time there's a metacurrency cost so we "know" we'll win, but with unconscious friends around and the author proving already that deaths are not off limit, it's not a good idea. Hell, last time we met Bellatrix everyone within collateral radius died.

Click to shrink...

From Discord today

Demons - even powerful ones - are pretty useless for combat, except as fodder
Since DADA teaches you to handle them
so every wizard has at least the basics figured out
and a trained Auror will simply
pull off his velvet kiddie glove
and Darth Vader chokeslam the demon into a wall so hard it breaks through the quarkspace and returns to hell

Click to shrink...

Here's another bit from earlier.

Harry Potter and the Scabbard of Excalibur [AU]

As Geist said, the actual value of demon summoning is to be held in doubt, as their utility as servants plummeted into an abyss, due to your ancestors' (incredibly dumbass) decisions. Many of the demons that survived are one-trick ponies or servant spirits with narrow utility; you'd be better...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

As Geist said, the actual value of demon summoning is to be held in doubt, as their utility as servants plummeted into an abyss, due to your ancestors' (incredibly dumbass) decisions.

Many of the demons that survived are one-trick ponies or servant spirits with narrow utility; you'd be better off purchasing a House Elf and teaching it to perform the same tasks, but that's obviously more expensive and time-consuming. Demon-summoning is a relatively decent method to get the same results in a short time, if you know what you're doing. An example of a typical demon at this level is a Grindylow.

If you were to sink a lot of research time into potential demonic names that survived the purges and experiments of your predecessors, you might be able to call upon something that - were it dedicated to nothing but combat and destruction in terms of usability - would take an entire team of veteran Aurors or even a wizard on par with Dumbledore (in combat) to subdue, but that's a stretch, even with your particular talents for the Dark Arts.

Click to shrink...

Then of course there's the stuff about Hogwarts professors you mentioned.

So yeah, acquiring a Demon who's relevant in a fight against adult wizards will necessitate extreme effort if we manage it at all.

 

[TaliesinSkye]

@Birdsie - If I may ask, how's summoning and communicating with/ordering around demons work, once you've already bound one? I'm not sure if Harry needs to call for them, or perform some act of magic, or what for the former, and if he needs to communicate verbally or if there are non-verbal means of directing a bound demon for the latter.

House elves seem to be able to hear their name and respond remotely, and need to be given directions verbally, but it's unclear if demons work the same way.

 

[PickleJar]

[X] Hold On... - Ask her questions

Let's not go for the risky option when there seems to be no need. If we fight her off not only do we gain no knowledge, we lose the benefit of surprise and gain... What? A pride boost? Unlikely their plans will be disrupted that much at that point, and we don't even know if these plans are against us.

By the way, I'm not blaming us or anything because we weren't going prepared to fight an adult death eater with 7 years of Hogwarts training, battle training by a dark lord among others, and probably years of battle experience. However, if we do plan to go up against such an opponent as a first year, no matter how talented, we will lose unless we bring our strengths to bear against their weaknesses.

Click to shrink...

What we gain is ruining their plans (if we want that) and, more importantly, answers.
We can't make them answer us right now, but if we subdue/mind control them to give us answers then we can solve the entire mystery outright instead of getting bits and piece of it.

If we fight them off (i.e get them out of the castle) then their plans will be ruined (by the time they regroup the feast will be over and they will not be able to get in again) and we have a good opportunity to do so since they don't expect Harry to be able to cast wandless magic or for Ornias to blind them with his light - I think that it goes without saying that they will otherwise just wipe the floor with us.

 

[H2F2]

What we gain is ruining their plans (if we want that) and, more importantly, answers.
We can't make them answer us right now, but if we subdue/mind control them to give us answers then we can solve the entire mystery outright instead of getting bits and piece of it.

If we fight them off (i.e get them out of the castle) then their plans will be ruined (by the time they regroup the feast will be over and they will not be able to get in again) and we have a good opportunity to do so since they don't expect Harry to be able to cast wandless magic or for Ornias to blind them with his light - I think that it goes without saying that they will otherwise just wipe the floor with us.

Click to shrink...

And why should we disrupt their plans? We don't know anything about them. So why risk the lives of your friends, your health, and your magical potential just to theoretically destroy a plan that we don't understand? In addition, Bellatrix's actions are clearly directed against Dumbledore, if we remember which apocryphal curse we chose at the beginning of the year. For example, I have absolutely no objection to the fact that both the Order of the Phoenix and the Death Eaters are busy with each other while we expand our capabilities.

 

[PickleJar]

And why should we disrupt their plans? We don't know anything about them. So why risk the lives of your friends, your health, and your magical potential just to theoretically destroy a plan that we don't understand? In addition, Bellatrix's actions are clearly directed against Dumbledore, if we remember which apocryphal curse we chose at the beginning of the year. For example, I have absolutely no objection to the fact that both the Order of the Phoenix and the Death Eaters are busy with each other while we expand our capabilities.

Click to shrink...

Because we want answers, and this is the best way of getting them? To stop being so helpless (Harry hates being put in this situation)? Because Bellatrix's first reaction is to mindwipe us, making her a hostile force to us necessarily?

Bellatrix certainly doesn't care about the possibility of us wanting to potentially work with her or talk things out since she has all the cards, and her immediate reaction is to mindwipe us and it is pretty much confirmed that she will erase our memories almost regardless of what we say - if she does it then we get no answers and are pretty much shooting at the dark from that point on.

Just so you remember, we didn't make any progress in solving this year's overarching plot at all.

Also, your assumptions of the risks it massively exaggerated.
Our friends are safe right now, we won't be "risking our magical potential" in any way (I have no idea where that came from), and Bellatrix will not kill us (she wants answers from us) or even hurt us too much (otherwise questions will pop up at the feast and their operations will be compromised)


I think that you are being unreasonably risk-averse here.

 

[H2F2]

Because we want answers, and this is the best way of getting them?

Click to shrink...

Joining the fight will not give answers, at best, it will disrupt their plans. What will give answers is a conversation.

To stop being so helpless (Harry hates being put in this situation)?

Click to shrink...

Harry copes with this, he is a fairly rational person who understands that the death eater fighters after two months of training are not his level.

Because Bellatrix's first reaction is to mindwipe us, making her a hostile force to us necessarily

Bellatrix certainly doesn't care about the possibility of us wanting to potentially work with her or talk things out since she has all the cards, and her immediate reaction is to mindwipe us and it is pretty much confirmed that she will erase our memories almost regardless of what we say - if she does it then we get no answers and are pretty much shooting at the dark from that point on.



Just so you remember, we didn't make any progress in solving this year's overarching plot at all.

Click to shrink...

To me, on the contrary, it says that she will be frank with us, she has all the cards in her hands, she has nothing to fear and there is no need to cheat. Moreover, she is intrigued by us, so this is the best chance to get answers from her.

Also, your assumptions of the risks it massively exaggerated.

Click to shrink...

One of the plans was to bring back imperius and force Bellatrix to kill her ally in this case, it seems to me that the children's gloves are off. And now our friends are unconscious, which could put them in the crossfire. But even if none of them get hurt, the same cannot be said about Ornias, Bellatrix will definitely not stand on ceremony with him.

Our friends are safe right now, we won't be "risking our magical potential" in any way (I have no idea where that came from),

Click to shrink...

By magical potential, I meant spending 7 gnosis, which is quite a lot. With this amount, we twice accelerated the training in three subjects, but now we spend the same amount to enter into an unnecessary and dangerous fight.

and Bellatrix will not kill us (she want answers from us)

Click to shrink...

Bellatrix does not want answers from us if that were the case, she would not have offered us to voluntarily go to the knockout

I think that you are being unreasonably risk-averse here.

Click to shrink...

I just don't see any advantages of fighting. While dialogue seems like a pretty viable option