Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
You are missing a bracket so the tally cannot count the vote.
- Location
- Brazil
Either my reading was totally wrong or you are confusing the explanations of DP . From what I understand we wil not be creating a new being or "actual people" , but just more Molly's.
And I like this in Infernal Exalted Quest's.
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I think the sticking point is that is that it's a hydra and not a hive mind. The heads have the same body, but they aren't thinking the same thoughts at the same time and don't have to believe the same things. Which opens us to a Lash scenario, but worse because our clones are limited to mortal ability levels.
That's not even accounting for stuff other than betrayal. Someone who wants to know what we know goes from needing to overwhelm an infernal to needing to grab a clone while we're distracted.
What happens if we send one to college for us, and it gets picked up by a white court vampire in between check ins? We can put up defenses against that, but there's only so far that can go.
Personally I just don't want to deal with the existence of new personalities as dependents, but the security issues are a problem.
Charms have no downside unless explicitly stated in the charm text.
- Location
- Germany
Keep in mind, the clone might be mortal, but it still has nine dice for melee-combat and absolutly no reason not to fight to the death.
The first such attempt will get ugly.
Then they likely take a death curse really. Clones have no reason not to sacrifice themselves, and hitting our enemies with death curses is a net gain for us.
- Location
- Germany
And that's just as bullshit now as it was the last time it came up.
Charms don't have downsides like hurting yourself when the Charm sets you on fire or such things, unless explicitly mentioned.
They do still have all indirect consequences that logic dictates.
For example Crowned with Fury does not explicitly mention that the target will propably hate you once the duration of the control is up, but that is a very likely result.
When the Tigers Broke Free doesn't say you cause widespread chaos by cutting off part of a city from the rest of it, but that will happen and people will notice.
I believe you are misreading that pretty badly.
Of course they have identity. They also retain, as far as I can tell, continuity of consciousness.
Infernal charms are not shy about stating when they are doing gruesome stuff, like the perfect defenses that use other people as ablative armor. If they are charging us an Essence dot per resurrection, which is the equivalent of between 8XP and 32XP, they arent going to be charging us anything else we cant replace.
Besides, Dresden Files. Death curses are real. Soulfire is a White God-approved technique.
And there's also Dresden deliberately engineering his own ghost as an associate and combat ally during Grave Peril to help him ambush and murderize Leonid Kravos' ghost.
My only real issue is that with the lack of innate mortal magic, a Molly clone is potentially vulnerable to telepathy and invasive mind magic. But thats probably covered by Enchanting/Craft; something along the lines of a magic tattoo applied via sticker to duplicate the Mind Shields numina.
-See the metal?
Thats the sort of thing you need to make chainmail better than Ebon Scales, IMO.
Or just learn Blessing of the Earth Dragon and enchant the armor with ancient Sorcery.
-Hangover cure is 1-dot tier.
Literal beginner alchemists can make it. Not gonna be worth the trouble to bother, not to mention that avoiding issues with the FDA and local food and health regulators is probably a good idea.
Probably 3-4 dot effects actually.
I rather doubt 5-6 dot effects are going to be available casually for acquisition, if only for narrative reasons.
Bob could do it; he canonically does it for both Dresden and Butters.
Indeed, Bob could cover essentially all the numina.
Thing is, we havent finished buying out our base suite of charms. And there's the Mab meeting in a couple months to prep for.
Im all for investing in Alchemy + Conveyance + Enchanting + Fortune + Healing + Summoning.
But priorities.
This is where I point out that in the Dresden Files, soulfire involves a wizard literally burning fractions of his own soul for magical turboboost, or tearing off chunks for use as the equivalent of magic rebar in a spell.yeah, MC is an INFERNAL exalted. what do people expect? puppies and rainbows?
And that is literally an angelic technique, passed along by an archangel, not a horror and perversion of how power is supposed to work. Its also how Odin resurrects Einherjar.And when Dresden freaked out about it using his own soul as magical juice, Bob scoffed at him, telling him it would grow back.
Its not a proscribed technique, or even a controversial one.
Mainstream Christian doctrine, which includes Catholic doctrine, involves the concept of the Trinity.
Which says that Jesus who died on the Cross and was resurrected with continuity of consciousness is God, same as the Father who stayed in Heaven and the Holy Ghost that is ever present.
Molly covered this stuff in Sunday School. She isnt going to have any issue with the charm itself.
As for not being a barrel of laughs?
Thats growing up. Molly is going to eventually responsible for making geopolitical decisions for her Hell and its inhabitants.
Thats not going to be a barrel of laughs either. We'd arguably be doing her a disservice trying to shield her from it.
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- Location
- washington
so it doesn't end up with a living thinking us in some hell being tortured?
No, Splintered Gale never sent clones to hell. Questions are mostly about substituting someone out of existence.
Anyway, while mortals are pretty weak, Molly Gale still could be pretty impressive. VEE, as always, allows to cheese absurd amount of merits over time, already making them very strong - and then we could template-stack Fomor-hood on them, and Fomor get access to some really sweet stuff when they are built with love an care, instead of disposable shock troops.
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We've argued about this before, but in this case the downside is spelled out in the charm. The clones are muggles with Molly's base stats.
If someone attacks with mind magic for example a clone would need to defend with pure willpower like any random mundane. She'd have a lot of it, but that only goes so far without supernatural leverage.
That's why I picked a social predator. White court vampires can be very good at taking people unaware.
You have to be a wizard to do that, and no matter how good we get they start from scratch. They might not even get Molly's original talent for that matter, taking death curses off the table even if they train sorcery.
We're talking past each other here; on a moral level continuity of consciousness makes some things better, but I don't want those consciousnesses to exist in the first place.
You can grow up just fine without that sort of stuff. I'm just not interested in navigating the clone dynamic, so I don't think we're going to convince each other of anything.
- Location
- Germany
9WP.
We are better protected than the average White Council Wizard I would guess.
Since neither has specific mental defences, but we have a good baseline.
SGI? No it just gets lost in the process of reincarnation.
Assuming we pick Advanced Technology for our hell, our clones should go there for higher education. And martial arts training. And mortal magic training (they can develop it on their own). Best tutors, and knowledge that's directly stated to be beyond what modern humanity has.
TBH, we have a bunch of ways to very quickly allow them to transcend bog-standard human level, so I am not really worried about them being preyed upon by some rando white vamp or whatever. VEE makes them into superlative sorcerers as we stack merits, basic fomor charms get them combat regeneration and Exalt-grade durability.
They'll be fine.
Harry is incredibly stubborn, and even with active magical defenses an actual specialist still nearly rolled him.
Besides, don't most mind sphere abilities explicitly not allow a will save unless you know you're under magical attack?
Reflexive mental defenses make that a non issue, but a mid grade mind mage scrambling a clone's brain while they walk down the street seems entirely plausible.
Agreed on the Jouten. As for the Fetich, wouldn't that be our Po Soul? If Devil Tigers even have real Fetiches, instead of doing away with them as a weakness as part of being new-and-improved Primordials 2.0.
We could always bind Evil Bob to our service.
Worth noting that
Ethniu's only real weakness is Divine and Infernal power, such as Denarian Marcone's,
As for the whole Splintered Gale clone stuff, I believe a lot of the problems (lacking power, concerns about them dying) could be solved by merging or replacing them with the 'Alternate-Timeline Mollies as 3CDs' I brought up earlier.
Devil Tigers are their Fetich.
Devil Tigers are Primordials, Fetiches are Third Circles. I think you meant to say that Devil Tigers don't have Fetiches at all.
Only if you're doing long duration clones.
Otherwise, I dont see the benefit.
This is for long duration clones.
If you're spawning off clones every other day and reabsorbing them to sync memories and keep up with stuff like schoolwork, its not really cost-effective.
Thats rather underselling the threat, innit?.
He almost got rolled by the Corpsetaker. Same wizard who punked Warden-Commander Luccio when she was on her guard.
Its a little like being getting punched out by prime Mike Tyson.
Not really. For one thing mind mage specialists arent common.
For a second, Alchemy and Enchantment both afford modalities to apply reflexive mental defenses at the 2/3 dot level.
So does Summoning.
Plus there are the fomor charms; specifically Inner Devils Unchained.