Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
BronzeTongue said:
So it probably comes down to if her particular variety of death fueled divinity is considered connected to darkness or not. Since she was probably sired during the period in which her father was fueled by unclaimed death power via high tier necromancy I think there are good odds she qualifies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would disagree.
Demigoddess/scion? Unlikely. She didnt automatically fledge to the Winter Court, so I doubt she'd automatically aspect as a Creature of Darkness. I mean, I doubt I doubt Arawn qualifies as a CoD. Necromancers dont.

BronzeTongue said:
Definitely not. We might be able to worst with red vampires on an individual basis if necessary or they seem like they can reform from being murder monsters (though I have my doubts about a vast majority of them doing so for any reason other than force) , but the political structures of the court are toxic waste. The more they know about us the worse off things will be when dealing with them going forwards.

If we work with the team here we need to kill everyone we can't completely subvert.
… think god will stop smiting them if we convince them to convert and join a Catholic monastery? Then we could just make them Uriel's problem. :V

Edit; dropped double quote
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I dont really think thats feasible.
By the time we've been active for a while, they'll have a good idea of what we can do after we've shown it off.
Even if its only by summoning and bargaining for knowledge.

Secrecy isnt likely to work for very long. Dont factor it in.
A_Somebody said:
Per our new servant, red court could theoretically not kill people from blood drinking. Realistically lmao no, they dont have the empathy to care and rampire spit is like supernatural meth in terms of mental and physical effects on human thralls
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Part empathy, part control.
Rampires lose control more easily IIRC.

Do remember that they held Dresden captive during Grave Peril.
Im reasonably sure(its been a while since I read it) that, among other things, they fed on him, and Susan, and Justine.
So its not a matter of being incapable. Its a matter of control and
Madsamurai said:
I know this is maybe going off topic a bit, but does anything stop a rampire from drinking blood from a cup? Like, Thomas and other white courts needs to feed off of emotions, so that messes up the donor. In principle can a "good guy" red court "embezzle" at a blood bank and in principle be a functional member of society?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Blood is a medium for life energy.
I dont know if stored blood remains magically significant; it doesnt seem to have come up.
 
A necromancer deep enough in their art would trigger for the same reason the Nephndi do in WoD. Magic that is unnatural enough stains the soul through long use, I don't mean just break the Law, more 'go so deep into necromancy that it becomes a part of you'. Corpsetaker was a CoD for instance.
 
[X] "Take us to your leader" you command imperiously.
-[X] Go meet this Don Phillipe de Leon. Learn what he knows, and establish boundaries on acceptable tactics during your cooperation, brief as it may be. No harming the innocents, no collateral damage, unless it can't be avoided, stuff like this.
--[X] Use excellency for certain and ipm if needed.

Looks good.
We talk to the boss, it either works or we leave a burning nightclub behind.
Harry would be proud either way.
 
The problem with the Red Court is that they are currently in the direct confrontation with the White Council. If cooperation with rampires becomes known to the Council, it will not only interfere with Molly's budding ties with the polity of wizards, it could also be used as a piece of political blackmail against Harry Dresden, who is our known associate, and I think that rampires' collaborators in the Council will not hesitate. This kind of connection can be very toxic. So I strongly argue against any kind of cooperation with these vampires.
 
Last edited:
Artemis1992 said:
[X] "Take us to your leader" you command imperiously.
-[X] Go meet this Don Phillipe de Leon. Learn what he knows, and establish boundaries on acceptable tactics during your cooperation, brief as it may be. No harming the innocents, no collateral damage, unless it can't be avoided, stuff like this.
--[X] Use excellency for certain and ipm if needed.

Looks good.
We talk to the boss, it either works or we leave a burning nightclub behind.
Harry would be proud either way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Harry: "Don't look at me, people! This time it really wasn't my fault."
 
Cavalar said:
The problem with the Red Court is that they are currently in the direct confrontation with the White Council. If cooperation with rampires becomes known to the Council, it will not only interfere with Molly's budding ties with the polity of wizards, it could also be used as a piece of political blackmail against Harry Dresden, who is our known associate, and I think that rampires' collaborators in the Council will not hesitate. This kind of connection can be very toxic. So I strongly argue against any kind of cooperation with these vampires.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I disagree that hashing out a "lets not kill each other" plan with them right now will be taken negativly.

If the situation is about stopping an ancient monster from rising from the depths of the ocean to bring about the end of the Age of Reason then a temporary ceasefire is really okay.
And if it is only an ancient monster rising from the depths of the local lake bringing about a bit of havoc and madness in Cleveland, it's still okay.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I disagree that hashing out a "lets not kill each other" plan with them right now will be taken negativly.

If the situation is about stopping an ancient monster from rising from the depths of the ocean to bring about the end of the Age of Reason then a temporary ceasefire is really okay.
And if it is only an ancient monster rising from the depths of the local lake bringing about a bit of havoc and madness in Cleveland, it's still okay.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Harry's attempt to save himself, Susan and civilians at Bianca's party was twisted as a breach of protocol for some petty reasons, which resulted in the Global Occult War. Do you really think that coordinated operation will not face the same fate? If we are talking about non-interference, this is a sensible strategy, but some people argue for seeking their help in the investigation and attack. Some even dream about rampire servant.
 
Last edited:
[X] "Take us to your leader" you command imperiously.
-[X] Go meet this Don Phillipe de Leon. Learn what he knows, and establish boundaries on acceptable tactics during your cooperation, brief as it may be. No harming the innocents, no collateral damage, unless it can't be avoided, stuff like this.
--[X] Use excellency for certain and ipm if needed.

I wouldn't mind if the negotiations break down. With our new soak we should be able to clear out a nest of reds well taking no damage. Reds are fast and vicious, but they aren't really heavier damage dealers then a gang with guns. Less even. And that is ignoring the fact that most of them are likely to run in panic.
 
Last edited:
fictionfan said:
I wouldn't mind if the negotiations break down. With our new soak we should be able to clear out a nest of reds well taking no damage. Reds are fast and vicious, but they aren't really heavier damage dealers then a gang with guns. Less even. And that is ignoring the fact that most of them are likely to run in panic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
An old one can propably deal serious damage in its true form, by claw and teeth.
 
Artemis1992 said:
An old one can propably deal serious damage in its true form, by claw and teeth.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is exactly what I mean. Claws and teeth might be very scary for a normal human, but for us with soak 4 that is not a threat. Red court vampires even the old ones aren't strong enough to lift a car or punch though a door. All the scary reds seen in the Dresden files are scary because they are mages or mental dominance. Not because they can hammer though Desden's force shield with brute strength.

And to be clear soak 4 means that our skin is at least as strong as Desden's force shield without us needing to focus in order to maintain it. We should be able to tank most of their attacks just standing still and we have no reason to stand still.

The Infernal's flesh is fortified with the power to survive the very tortures of Hell. And hells best torturers with their victim strapped down they aren't and we aren't.
 
Last edited:
4 points of soak do not make us invulnerable; we had seen ppl and things roll well enough to pierce that multiple times.

Our shintai form kind of is tho. So is the +Soak charm we got at the latest level up. But those are not passive defenses and are very obvious.
 
I think the takeaway is not that vamps couldn't overwhelm us as we are now.
But if we are clad in brass and ancient glory, they'd have a damn hard time at it, while we kill one per round with almost certainty due to our huge melee-pool.

Edit: And our companions can certainly defend themselves as well.
 
Last edited:
Artemis1992 said:
I think the takeaway is not that vamps couldn't overwhelm us as we are now.
But if we are clad in brass and ancient glory, they'd have a damn hard time at it, while we kill one per round with almost certainty due to our huge melee-pool.

Edit: And our companions can certainly defend themselves as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also I doubt they brought more than 10 vamps on this Op and at least half of them should be busy on assignments rather than just hanging around the boss.
 
fictionfan said:
Also I doubt they brought more than 10 vamps on this Op and at least half of them should be busy on assignments rather than just hanging around the boss.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They brought 18, in 3 packs a 6 vamps, not sure if that's counting the boss or not.

Or so the guy here claims.

Also add some thralls who might take a shot too.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, remember that we purchased VLE on our last XP spend, and with that scene-long boost our soak dice pool goes from 4 to 8. And we got the Charm to reduce the difficulty of all soak rolls by 1. That's… back-of-the-napkin probability estimation says we average 4 successes and change (closer to 5, really) for soak rolls while we have VLE active, which is more than the average damage successes for a good number of guns assuming no extra damage dice from to-hit margins. And we have stupid good Parry with our shield out, as well as allies and a Shintai super-mode in the back pocket if we end up needing it.
 
Yog said:
For a moment, the vampires seem to be interested in secrecy of their operations. The guy was sent to delay us because the vampires aren't ready (which implies that "Knight of the Cross rides into town and the eldrich thing is destroyed / prevented from being released" is not the acceptable solution, meaning that the vampires do want to take advantage of the situation). I honestly do not expect this to come to a fight at the moment. Moreover, I do not expect the vampires to start a fight with a large collateral count.

The other factions are almost certainly venatori, up to and including Archive (depends on what sort of the creature this really is).
I guess that the alternative is to send this guy to his boss and establish a meeting at some neutral ground, to, again, set some ground rules for your possible cooperation. Or we go full "purge the xeno" and annihilate them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Le Blanc was sent to scout us, not to delay us. If we hadnt detected him, there's a good chance he would have just kept following us.

The Reds have the option of blowing everything up and moving to an alternate base/safehouse. Especially at night.
This is not their home territory, they have nothing to protect.
The base is expendable, and we dont know most of their operatives on sight.

And thats assuming their base isnt already under surveillance by the Pathfinders or someone else.

I expect the Venatori are probably in the area. Or will be soon.
Its a multimillion person metro area. But even they are not necessarily part of the local supernatural scene.
Its entirely possible there's at least two other factions in play: Venatori, and locals.

My preferred preference is to send him with a message and an email address as an information dump
While we use the information to track and identify all the players in this little scenario.

Remember: The Reds are not our friends.
While we might be able to work with individuals, I expect us to come to blows with groups because Reds are like that.
I just dont want to do so at the cost of our reputation, or to go off half-cocked.
DragonParadox said:
A necromancer deep enough in their art would trigger for the same reason the Nephndi do in WoD. Magic that is unnatural enough stains the soul through long use, I don't mean just break the Law, more 'go so deep into necromancy that it becomes a part of you'. Corpsetaker was a CoD for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would argue thats the exception, not the norm.

Corpsetaker? No doubt about it. The lady jumped bodies on the regular.
Grevane? I would say not. Cowl? Not unless he pulled off the Darkhallow. Mortimer Lindqvist? Nope.
Dresden? No.

My opinion.
 
Last edited:
Ok so I underestimated how many vamps there were, but I also underestimated our soak. We can basically take on an unlimited number of minion level vamps.
 
fictionfan said:
Also I doubt they brought more than 10 vamps on this Op and at least half of them should be busy on assignments rather than just hanging around the boss.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They brought 18. Plus at least one possible sorcerer.
They have a bunch of thralls, including law enforcement, and they have a prepared base with possibly defences, occult and otherwise. And a whole passel of civilian meatshields. You dont walk into that kind of event without prep if you can avoid it.

They came here to deal with a chthonic entity. They would have come prepared for direct action.
 
fictionfan said:
Ok so I underestimated how many vamps there were, but I also underestimated our soak. We can basically take on an unlimited number of minion level vamps.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Keep in mind it's 18 vampires total. Odds are you would not be fighting them all in a white room battle. On the other hand it is unlikely vampires would be all you would have to deal with in a fight with the Red Court. they find it quite easy to enthrall mortals.
 
DragonParadox said:
Keep in mind it's 18 vampires total. Odds are you would not be fighting them all in a white room battle. On the other hand it is unlikely vampires would be all you would have to deal with in a fight with the Red Court. they find it quite easy to enthrall mortals.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Are you talking about the possible escalation from wiping out this group? I agree that is an issue, but I am just saying why I feel fairly confident in marching straight to the leader here and getting in his face.
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
I was talking about attacking their base, as Molly understands it they probably have thralls in site to help defend them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well if we can tank guns the thralls aren't a problem either. Actually it's amazing how many threats in the Dresden verse become not threats once you get enough soak to tank guns. Because most of the supernatural nasty specialize in preying on humans.
 
What do you think about tattling on the vampires to our contact in the Council? I think Harry will appreciate information about enemy group.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top