Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[FriedIce]

At E5 and with prep we should be able to fight her. Because yes, we are alone. But E5 exalted host acting together should be able to kick White God's teeth in and take his money. That's what they were made for

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I agree that a full E5 Exalted Host acting in concert would be able to kick in the White God's teeth and steal his lunch money but we're rather lacking in said Host. There's a world of difference between 700 Celestials plus 1m Dragonblooded and a single Solaroid.

I'd give us good odds of taking Mab on with some more experience if we were backed by a full Circle of Celestials - but we're kinda lacking one.

More generally, Mab is right at the top of the power levels in the Dresden Files. She has few equals and even fewer superiors. If we can win against her then there's not much further we can go. It's endgame level stuff and the difficulty should reflect that.

 

[XenonPrime]

Molly isn't really powerful enough to be snubbing powers like Mab.
And if you don't talk to a power they're just going to pursue their agenda by non-diplomatic means.

I wager that this is Mab effectively putting out feelers to see just what Molly is and how she's going to impact Mab's interests.

If nothing else Molly makes for a useful asset against Outsiders, if Mab knows she has a carrot she can use to entice Molly's assistance then it discourages Mab from finding other means of compelling Molly.

Even if some sort of conflict is inevitable, kicking that specific can down the road is only helpful for an Exalted still growing into her power.

 

[Exmorri]

And E8/E9? Really? E5 was the highest essence level at which exalted host overthrew Primordials at their height.

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While outnumbering the Primordials several hundred to one (both sides backed by many mooks) and still taking massive casualties in the process.

E7 and above are squarely in the "height of solar glory" range. Shinmaic communion and calibration, ie "edit the universal laws" charms are E7. If I recall correctly, Salinan working was E7.

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Shinmaic Calibration is E7, and is very sharply limited to land the Exalt has created with Wyld-Shaping Technique, so it's more like "edit the regional laws" and the upper end of its power is stuff like "Country is 5x larger on the inside than the borders on the outside" and "Everyone trying to discover information about my family takes -5 successes on the roll". It is one of those charms that people often remember as being better than it's written.

Shinmaic Communion, also E7, is an upgrade that defaults to affecting the same WST lands, unless the Exalt spends points in Nirupadhika to affect the rest of Creation, which a) subtracts from the points available to do actual miracles, b) requires even more powerful follow-up charms or some other 'greater arts' that weren't printed to make it fully real.

In that case the miracle becomes what is known as a shinmaic potentiality or "Miracle Shell," an Essence-shaped working which exists in potential but does not interface with Creation. Greater arts than Shinmaic Calibration are required to integrate a Miracle Shell into reality—the Salinan Working is likely the most well-known example of such an integration.

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Besides, ExWod is lower power level than Ex2e was.

No, you, in my opinion, very much overestimate Mab.

At E5 and with prep we should be able to fight her. Because yes, we are alone. But E5 exalted host acting together should be able to kick White God's teeth in and take his money. That's what they were made for.

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I think we have very different ideas about what the White God is like. Uriel can destroy a galaxy, which is far more powerful than any of the Primordials in Exalted, because the Primordials were operating at merely stellar scale. The Primordials were also very much caught off guard and had poorly-optimized builds in the first war because they thought they would never have to fight anything vaguely resembling a peer.

In Ex2 canon, one Primordial had the sense to nope out of the Primordial War, then hid in the deep Wyld for centuries, got a better combat build, came back for round two, and single-handedly (well technically 1 Primordial is multiple people) managed to kill multiple Elder Solars in the Aftershock War that lasted for 108 years before the semi-unified Solar Deliberative finally won.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Key words: Exalted Host. Hundreds of Celestial Exalted, millions of Dragonbloods, tens of millions of Jadeborn and Dragon Kings and other, now extinct races. God knows how many vanilla mortals. All armed to the teeth with top tier gear, and the backing of multiple Incarna and two Primordials. I remain confident that E8ish Exalt fighting solo against a 3CDalike gets clobbered.

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You don't know your lore the Exalted host had weaker charms in the Primordial war then Molly does right now. The charms in the book where made way after the Primordial war and where made by exalted research into making mathematically perfect charms.

I dont speak for the QM, and game fidelity takes priority here. But at E5 I still expect her to splatter us in a one on one.
And this does not appear to be Creation, and the top tier entities here, while restricted, appear to wield way more power than any 3CD or Incarna. I dont think an E5 Host would do very well picking a fight with the White God or his agents.

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1 on 1 an E5 solar exalted can fight a 3CD and be expected to win handily.

E7 is kill Primordials solo level of powers. The war ended at E5 because that is when then die forever charms come online.

 

[Yog]

And this does not appear to be Creation, and the top tier entities here, while restricted, appear to wield way more power than any 3CD or Incarna. I dont think an E5 Host would do very well picking a fight with the White God or his agents.

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She Who Lives in Her Name, by cracking three of her thousand spheres, deleted 9/10th of all concepts in Creation, leaving it only with what this universe has.

I think we have very different ideas about what the White God is like. Uriel can destroy a galaxy, which is far more powerful than any of the Primordials in Exalted, because the Primordials were operating at merely stellar scale. The Primordials were also very much caught off guard and had poorly-optimized builds in the first war because they thought they would never have to fight anything vaguely resembling a peer.

In Ex2 canon, one Primordial had the sense to nope out of the Primordial War, then hid in the deep Wyld for centuries, got a better combat build, came back for round two, and single-handedly (well technically 1 Primordial is multiple people) managed to kill multiple Elder Solars in the Aftershock War that lasted for 108 years before the semi-unified Solar Deliberative finally won.

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Do you take shards of exalted dream as possible canons? And there's evidence that the scale of Creation before Primordial War was significantly larger than stellar.

 

[the DragonBard]

Exalted host had weaker charms in the Primordial war then Molly does right now. The charms in the book where made way after the Primordial war and where made by exalted research into making mathematically perfect charms.

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Uh, Molly's charms weren't created by Exalted research. She's an Infernal, so she has the charms of the Yozi.

 

[uju32]

I know it's obvious, but it's one of those things that's so important I think it's worth explicitly mentioning anyway, so that it sticks at the front of our to-do list.

On the necromancers, I'm talking about going back into the sub to obliterate the remains of their ritual. At the very least having Dresden fill the thing with fire. Getting their effects is a good start, but I don't think letting Daedalus study the remains of a broken god eating ritual will lead anywhere we want to go.

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1)Fair enough about the ritual circle.
Arawn already repurposed it, but we can trash what he used before leaving.

2)The sub is not feasible.

U-505 is 76 metres long, and the pressure hull is 58 metres long.
Its impossible to sanitize it safely with fire or in any reasonable timeframe, and the families deserve their dead back without further mutilation. Short of burning the entire museum down with magical fire, I dont see anything we can do.

Harry might be able to summon wyldfae, but they dont have the focus to do crime scene sanitization, and the submarine is steel anyway, so they wouldnt go near it.
Which also explains why Kattrin and EvilBob wanted a submarine after aggroing Winter; most Fae wont go near that much steel.

On the other hand, we already had water and ectoplasm waist-high in the hall. Should have washed away most ritual traces.
And the process of moving the dead will erase the rest.

That is not by what you meant by shrugging off the Eye of Balor Uju. While perfect dodge and parry is viable as noted you specifically were meaning in the context of her shrugging it off by tanking it in an ealier quote before the current one here.



By most usage of the word from what I encountered tanking means taking it to the face such as how a tank soaks damage in an MMO the majority of the time for the party. Which as I noted is specifically impossible to do as attempting to tank it through magic or physical capability is not possible even for Uriel.

Does my disagreement make sense now?

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Mab tanked the Eye of Balor. Thats soak.
Citation:

Spoiler: Battlegrounds c29

Twenty-nine

I felt it in my guts and in my soul when the Eye struck Mab.

She sat ramrod straight on the dark unicorn. Even as Ethniu screamed, Mab lifted her left hand, slim and pale, fingers spread evenly in a defensive gesture. Frost gathered upon her, upon the flanks of the unicorn, crusted the ground all around her, even as the horrible power of the Eye washed over Mab.

The sound alone, as those two sources of power met, was enough to drive a strong mind mad. I couldn't have told you what it sounded like, specifically. It was too huge a noise for that. I can tell you that I started screaming out in pure reflexive protest against that sound, and that my voice was lost in the din. The Winter unicorn reared, trumpeting its defiance, and the dark saber spiraling from its forehead almost seemed to drink in a portion of that fury, while Mab flawlessly adjusted her balance upon its back. The concrete beneath her buckled and shattered into sand. Fire and lightning and wind whirled in a cyclone centered upon her. Bits of her hair, blown wildly by the wind, blackened and disintegrated. The fine mail covering her body was riven by the flood of energy, turning from bright mail to the dark of verdigris, and then tearing as individual rings changed from metal to some kind of blackened residue, leaving smudges of soot over pale skin.

Butters and I were like two men before a flood taking desperate shelter behind a stone.

On pure instinct, I had gathered my shield around us in a half dome that enveloped us entirely. The energy wasn't even being directed at me—I was just trying to stop some of the random splatter that got past Mab and came in our direction.

Again, I was operating out of my weight class. The mere backwash from the Eye was almost more than I could handle. My shield bracelet heated again, and I knew I was going to have a fresh band of burn scars to go along with the old burns on the hand itself. The effort I put forward to protect us would have killed me on another night. Tonight, the power in the air made it simple, and a dozen layers of my best shielding took the brunt of the wild expenditure of energy without faltering.

I could feel the power of the Eye as it touched my shield, feel the pure, raw, undiluted hate that drove whoever wielded it. This hate wasn't any mere mortal emotion. This was hate of the original vintage, hate as old as the universe itself, hate as hard and sharp and cold as steel, hate as hot as the fires of Hell, hate so vital, so vicious, so vitriolic, that it surpassed the understanding of my merely mortal mind.

Ethniu hated me. Me, personally, though she did not know me. The Titan hated me, hated me on a level I could not begin to understand. That I walked the earth and drew breath was enough to earn her everlasting fury.
But that was just a shadow of what she felt toward Mab.

That was personal.

Mab, slender and beautiful and deadly on her black unicorn, defying the power of the Eye as it blasted away bits of her hair, as it rent and rendered her armor. Her will manifested around her as cold, pure light, a sphere of diamond radiance that dispersed the most vicious efforts of the Eye, sent power spilling out from her and around her, like a fast-flowing river crashing into an obdurate stone. In that withering light and fury, she was a being of distilled intellect and will, pure determination and cold defiance. In that fury, she was a shadow, an outline, dark and terrible and undeniable, standing against the tide unmoving.

In that moment, I saw with my own eyes why she was called the Queen of Air and Darkness.
And, somehow, she did it. She stopped the Eye. She stood before that undeniable power and was not moved.
The red glare of the Eye faded.

For a long moment, Mab was still, her body clad only in remnants of her mail, in blackened residue and scarlet streaks and burns, her left hand raised and extended in defiance. Smoke rose from her.
Then she fell, suddenly boneless, from the unicorn's back, collapsing to the ground as if too weak to remain upright.

Ethniu stared forward for a moment before lifting her face to the sky and crying out in vicious, spiteful triumph. She raised her hands and threw them forward, and like puppets directed by her will, the entire Fomor legion groaned and began to pace forward in stomping unison, gathering momentum like a single massive beast.

The silence gave way before the sound of boots tromping upon the ground. Like a tide, the Fomor advanced across the field, eerie signal clicks coming before them like rain before a truly terrible storm. They crossed the open field and there was nothing further to stop them.

And, I realized, nothing to shelter them.
They had marched into the open field.
And in the vaults of my mind, Mab's voice rang out in sudden exultation. NOW, LADY MOLLY.

From the north, a fresh, chill zephyr swirled down through the city and into the park. Somewhere along the shoreline of Lake Michigan, a gull cried out in sudden excitement.
And music began to play.

She dropped afterwards.

But in Exalted terms, that would not have been a perfect defense, it would have been a soak-boosting technique along the lines of Water Dragon Style's Form. EDIT Or maybe it is a perfect defense with a condition that invokes physical paralysis for X turns after its been used. No idea.

Word of Jim is that the Eye of Balor could kill Uriel if he did absolutely nothing to defend himself. I quote:

You know at the end of the day when somebody puts a .44 magnum in your face, he's got a .44 magnum in your face and that's what Dresden has. The Eye of Balor is a .44 magnum to anybody, it's dangerous.

Is it even like dangerous to Uriel? Or his boss?

If Uriel just stood there in it, yeah, I mean he wouldn't, it could kill him I mean it's- again it's one of those- I mean Uriel is... he's so powerful that he's not even on the scale with everybody else. I mean yeah maybe the Eye of Balor could disintegrate Uriel if Uriel couldn't just immediately teleport anywhere or make the energy go somewhere else or basically do anything at all to defend himself. If he just stood there like a dummy, sure somebody could kill him with the Eye of Balor. He's not going to, he's a freaking archangel.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

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The implication there is that Uriel has the complete suite of defensive options.
Soak boosters. Perfect soak, perfect parry, perfect dodge.
But if he didnt use them, the Eye could kill him.

 

[uju32]

You don't know your lore the Exalted host had weaker charms in the Primordial war then Molly does right now. The charms in the book where made way after the Primordial war and where made by exalted research into making mathematically perfect charms.

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This is entirely untrue.

There are repeated references to the Solar suite being largely unchanged since the Primordial War
And frankly, quite the opposite; we know Ex2 Sidereals had some Primordial War charms that were locked away by the Maidens after the War ended.

I dont know where you are getting your information, but its blatantly wrong.

on 1 an E5 solar exalted can fight a 3CD and be expected to win handily.
E7 is kill Primordials solo level of powers. The war ended at E5 because that is when then die forever charms come online.

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An E5 Exalt is supposed to solo a 3CD?
Thats utterly delusional.
Go ahead and try.

And your claim that an E7 is supposed to solo a Primordial makes it pretty clear you havent actually read the source books.

She Who Lives in Her Name, by cracking three of her thousand spheres, deleted 9/10th of all concepts in Creation, leaving it only with what this universe has.

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Yes, she crippled herself to cripple a Creation she helped build.
She helped build it; she knew how to trash it.

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Battlegrounds spoiler:
Ethniu explicitly says that Mab used to be mortal, and calls her a "little witch", which is an interesting and suggestive choice of words on her part:

Spoiler: Battlegrounds c28: SPOILERS!!!!

Her voice snapped out over the ground, sharp and threatening, like sudden crackling sounds from the face of a glacier. "Hold, crone. You will come no farther."

Ethniu faced that statement in silence and stillness for a moment.

Then she simply smiled and strode a step closer.

The two monsters faced each other for an endless beat, before Ethniu's voice throbbed through the air, vibrating painfully through my bones, making my teeth buzz unpleasantly.

"You began a mewling mortal," Ethniu replied. Her voice was as loud inside my head as outside, infused with sheer undeniable power. When that voice spoke, reality itself would bow to suit it. "You will end the same way. Powerful as you are, you come of a younger world. A weaker world."

"A world that left you behind," Mab said, mockery ringing in defiance of the power before her.

Ethniu took a further step forward, the Eye glaring brighter, now cowling her head in scarlet light. "Treacherous little witch. The one who would not bow to my father. You will bow to me or face the Eye."

Mab pulled a play from my book. She threw back her head and laughed.

It was a silvery sound, one that somehow shattered the stillness and closeness of the night. Scorn rang in that laughter, and genuine amusement—the cold, alien amusement of a spider. The laughter made the Fomor troops suddenly clutch at their heads. Their lines wavered as the heavily armored troops dropped their weapons and tried to wrap their long arms around their helmeted skulls.

"You do not know me very well," Mab said, that ear-shredding laughter still lurking in her voice, "do you?"

 

[Ogoobu]

[X] Write in - "You are not summoned lightly Queen, even when you permit it. I will neither refuse or commit in this moment. I will consider and seek council, then decide."

 

[Yzarc]

And your claim that an E7 is supposed to solo a Primordial makes it pretty clear you havent actually read the source books.

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Ironically they can.

When the Devs gave Infernals a soul pantheon. It gave Infernals 10 3CD and their sub Souls.

In a massive Oops moment they gzvd solar a charm to fight the Jnfernal and their Soul Pantheon. At the same time. Yeah.

So mechanically and technically, solar CAN fight a Primordial at E7. Worse it is cannon.

 

[uju32]

Ironically they can.

When the Devs gave Infernals a soul pantheon. It gave Infernals 10 3CD and their sub Souls.
In a massive Oops moment they gzvd solar a charm to fight the Jnfernal and their Soul Pantheon. At the same time. Yeah.
So mechanically and technically, solar CAN fight a Primordial at E7. Worse it is cannon.

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Citation? I am not sure which charm you are talking about.

 

[Arhin]

[X] Write in - "You are not summoned lightly Queen, even when you permit it. I will neither refuse or commit in this moment. I will consider and seek council, then decide."
-[X]After Mab leaves? Crown of Eyes to ask what Mab knows about our exaltation. Arcane focus: footprints in ectoplasm, precise location(s) where she was standing.

 

[Yzarc]

Citation? I am not sure which charm you are talking about.

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Here you go. I was wrong as it was E8 not E7 but yeah. Mechanically, it allows a Solar to Solo an Infernal and their Soul Pantheon and since Infernal Charms = Yozi Charms......you get the idea.

Yozi-Fighting Principle

Cost: 10m, 1wp
Mins: War 8, Essence 8
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Native
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: One With Strife Method

Yozis are one of the greatest challenges a Solar will ever face in combat, for they are not one being, but hundreds. Yet none may stand in superiority to the Solar Exalted. Using Yozi-Fighting Principle, the Lawgiver's killing instinct expands to encompass foes which are armies unto themselves. By conceptualizing all such combatants as intrinsically linked, the character may extend the actions he takes against one opponent to all of them, enabling him to face impossible odds and engage in legendary battles which form the heart of mythology.

While Yozi-Fighting Principle is in effect, any Charm activated against or in response to a networked being is considered to have had its cost pre-paid for use against all other elements of that networked being. This cost discount applies until the Exalt's next action tick.

For example: A Solar is attacked by Ligier and activates a Combo of Heavenly Guardian Defense and Solar Counterattack, paying normally for this defense and counterattack. One tick later, he is subjected to a two-attack flurry by Ligier's soul, Gervesin. The character may activate Heavenly Guardian Defense and Solar Counterattack for no cost in response to Gervesin's first attack, but would need to pay for it against his second. Then, one tick after that, Malfeas himself strikes the Solar with a three attack flurry. The Solar may use Solar Counterattack and Heavenly Guardian Defense twice in response to the titan's onslaught for no cost, but would have to pay a third set of activations.

"Networked beings" are considered to be creatures whose sum totality of being is encompassed by multiple bodies—Yozis and Primordials are the premiere example, but the Emanations of an unshaped raksha also count. This Charm is effective moving both 'up' and 'down' a Yozi's chain of souls—an attack against Gervesin could roll over into a discount against Malfeas as easily as an attack against Malfeas could roll over into a discount against Gervesin. Attacks against Exalted are never discounted, though in the bizarre event that an Exalt somehow began growing subsidiary souls, attacks directed at the Exalt would provide a discount to then target her souls. Exalted akuma form an exception to this rule—they are considered a part of the Yozi they have sold themselves to, and may be fully treated as such by this Charm.

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[uju32]

Here you go. I was wrong as it was E8 not E7 but yeah. Mechanically, it allows a Solar to Solo an Infernal and their Soul Pantheon and since Infernal Charms = Yozi Charms......you get the idea.

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Thank you.
Yeah, that charm is not Primordial War-OK, so even without any criticism of its mechnical rigor, it wouldnt have been available during the Primordial War. And is unavailable to Essence 7 Celestials.

 

[Exmorri]

Do you take shards of exalted dream as possible canons?

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No, Shards is several different possible settings.

Here you go. I was wrong as it was E8 not E7 but yeah. Mechanically, it allows a Solar to Solo an Infernal and their Soul Pantheon and since Infernal Charms = Yozi Charms......you get the idea.

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Yozi-Fighting Principle is very very cool, but it's specialized against similar soul-creatures who are all making basic attacks, where the Solar can get the discount to use the same (type of) charm against all of them. It rapidly loses effectiveness if the over-entity has soul-creatures who aren't simply variations on facepuncher #1 through #10.

If for example Soul One attacks with one big attack and the Solar uses Heavenly Guardian Defense to parry, and Soul Two attacks with a magical flurry and the Solar uses a flurry-breaker, and Soul Three attacks with a stealth attack and the Solar uses a surprise-negator, then Soul Four is Munaxes or something who turns the ground into a bottomless pit and the Solar uses a super jump to get away, the Solar will still get tapped out fast from paying full price for these different charms.

YFP does not enable the Solar to solo a pantheon.

 

[Madsamurai]

[X] Yes, you will call on Mab and listen to what she has to say

 

[Yzarc]

YFP does not enable the Solar to solo a pantheon.

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It Extends to ALL actions, including attacks. So if the Solar a lot of good attack charms, then a lot of souls are going to instantly die.

 

[mastigos]

Only if you snap a photo of her shoes or something, you need a thing to focus on

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So almost anything other than Mab's clothes in this room lol?
I'm not voting on any of them but it occurs to me that this room just became quite valuable to us

-what secrets about the exaltation does the fae woman who was standing here implying she knew such secrets know

-what unseen costs was mab implying about the actions taken in the room reflected from this piece of glass?

-WHAT DOES THIS TREE SYMBOL MEAN? (Lol, primordial lore time)

-What are the plans of the entity that was possessing this U-boat?

-What are the key arcane components necessary to summon and bind the entity that fires this gun?

 

[DragonParadox]

On the matter of ritual traces... there is a ritual circle with the name of a... Something Hungry and Empty writ in blood and etched in flame behind you. You might want to make sure that gets wiped before other necromantic remains.

 

[Artemis1992]

YFP does not enable the Solar to solo a pantheon.

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It's still helpful, particularly if you can use an offensive murder-combo like Jack vile Ripper suggest at some point of this threat against the Ebon Dragon.
Regardless, a possibly badly balanced Essence 8 Charm is not relevant to what Molly can do, or even what the Exalted Host at the Primordial War could do.
The only Primordial who might ever have had to face that was the one from the Aftershock War and they were designed for guerilla war, so propably had some trick to disconnect themselves enough to negate it and kill some Elders anyway.

And this does not appear to be Creation, and the top tier entities here, while restricted, appear to wield way more power than any 3CD or Incarna. I dont think an E5 Host would do very well picking a fight with the White God or his agents.

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I think we have very different ideas about what the White God is like. Uriel can destroy a galaxy, which is far more powerful than any of the Primordials in Exalted, because the Primordials were operating at merely stellar scale. The Primordials were also very much caught off guard and had poorly-optimized builds in the first war because they thought they would never have to fight anything vaguely resembling a peer.

In Ex2 canon, one Primordial had the sense to nope out of the Primordial War, then hid in the deep Wyld for centuries, got a better combat build, came back for round two, and single-handedly (well technically 1 Primordial is multiple people) managed to kill multiple Elder Solars in the Aftershock War that lasted for 108 years before the semi-unified Solar Deliberative finally won.

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I don't see the WG as more powerful than Theion and the entirety of the Titans, so I think the Exalted Host should be able to beat him, that's what they were made for.

But certainly not in one glorious battle, but rather the same impossibly bloody way that they won the Primordial War, by dying and being reborn faster than the Primordials can regain lost deva/angels.
By sacrificing themselves over and over again fighting and impossibly more powerful foe who is mostly not winning because he's not quite willing to end all Creation to ensure that no new Exalted can come forth.
Until finally that near-infinite being is low on subsouls and Essence and can be fought directly.

 

[BossFight]

Based on what we've seen in the books, Ligier would obliterate Mab in personal combat without even realising she was there. She'd just be collateral damage.

Mab is a strategic threat, but her showing in personal combat is well below a combat focused dragon blooded, a particularly strong enlightened mortal could probably meet her on equal terms.

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Yeah, Mab is social focused, and either a strong 2CD or a weak 3CD. Ligier is the strongest combat focused 3CD

 

[TonedMite]

[X] Write in - "You are not summoned lightly Queen, even when you permit it. I will neither refuse or commit in this moment. I will consider and seek council, then decide."

 

[bengalqueen]

[X] Write in - "You are not summoned lightly Queen, even when you permit it. I will neither refuse or commit in this moment. I will consider and seek council, then decide."
-[X]After Mab leaves? Crown of Eyes to ask what Mab knows about our exaltation. Arcane focus: footprints in ectoplasm, precise location(s) where she was standing.

Yeah, this is a win, let's take the win:

• Harry gets part of his debt to Winter written off
• Matthews gets Winter's protection for him and his family
• Lydia gets off the hook, and her dad is "only" in a magical healing coma he can still talk to her from
• We're not getting smited for our presumption, and are instead getting lured into working for her by our nature/Urge
• Katrina and Corpsetaker are both permanently dead, and don't even get to fire off a death curse for the trouble

Every one of our goals is filled, and the only downside is Mab taking an interest, and that was going to happen eventually no matter what. We successfully threaded the needle here, good job everyone, hopefully our roadtrip with Dad has less magical politics and more things we actually have the tools to solve.

 

[uju32]

On the matter of ritual traces... there is a ritual circle with the name of a... Something Hungry and Empty writ in blood and etched in flame behind you. You might want to make sure that gets wiped before other necromantic remains.

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Noted.

QUESTION
Do we need to include it as part of this vote, or is there a vote for what to do after Mab leaves?

I don't see the WG as more powerful than Theion and the entirety of the Yozi, so I think the Exalted Host should be able to beat him, that*s what they were made for.

But certainly not in one glorious battle, but rather the same impossibly bloody way that they won the Primordial War, by dying and being reborn faster than the Primordials can regain lost deva/angels.
By sacrificing themselves over and over again fighting and impossibly more powerful foe who is mostly not winning because he's not quite willing to end all Creation to ensure that no new Exalted can come forth.
Until finally that near-infinite being is low on subsouls and Essence and can be fought direct

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As in, Uriel is benchmarked at popping galaxies.
Thats significantly beyond Primordial-power levels in any Exalted universe, whether canon or the Shards of the Exalted Dream worlds. I really dont think the Exalted Host would stand a prayer against him, let alone his boss.

But thats my opinion.

I do agree that precedent is clear about campaigns against Primordial-type organisms being long campaigns with armies to have any chance of success.
The Primordial nicknamed Chungzilla that came back to fight the Deliberative took a century to lose.

Yeah, Mab is social focused, and either a strong 2CD or a weak 3CD. Ligier is the strongest combat focused 3CD

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Mab is explicitly described as having been created to be a weapon. I quote:

Spoiler: Word of Jim, Youtube interview

Wrestling book provisional title is Body Slam.

-Mirror Mirror is a few years ahead, things got worse faster there.

-One Uriel in multiverse, other really high level guys have the same deal. Mabs of parallel worlds would be parallel and able to talk to each other if they wanted but they're busy. The Mothers are much closer to Uriel, they're close to gods like Zeus or the Native American gods, this will be covered in the story.

-Thomas' prison duration is one of the things Jim isn't sure of.

-Some of Wild Bill and Yoshimo in next book. Chandler is still an unknown for Jim.

-Mac and Mort had short stories that happened during Battle Ground.

-Eye of Balor would be dangerous to basically anybody, even Uriel if he decided to take the hit for some reason.

-Mab's not a weapon collector, she prefers to make herself the weapon.

-Cristos is an earth mage, better than McCoy at overall earth magic. McCoy is the guy who fucks you over by being overall good at everything (e.g. air magic for dealing with earth mages). Morgan was the combat specialist earth mage while Cristos is better overall.

-Mother Winter would have gone for Vlad Tepes and people like him (e.g. Stalin) as her knight. She only really cares about if they'll be completely relentless at getting things done.

-Aleister Crowley was an illusion specialist wizard who ran a cult. The White Council were like "we just got through the burning times, and now you're doing this", John Dee was a wizard.

-There is actual magic associated with royalty (oh joy), Mab does not disrespect Elizabeth in England because she can do things and this will appear more.

-Lea most likely in Twelve Months, she'll probably be the one to kick him in the ass and tell him to get moving.

-Dresden keeps growing up in unexpected ways, fight with Lea once he finds out the deal might not happen now thanks to character development.

-fae have always been general mooks at the gates, they've recently got autonomous leadership (as in during the past few thousand years) thanks to getting a sponsor heavily implied to be Hecate and leadership put into place.

-there were forty or fifty thousand starborn at first, over the last 40 years they've been whittled down.

-Drakul and Dracula are much older than their historical counterparts. They've been a few different historical monsters.

-Black Court isn't much older than Dracula, Drakul just wanted a small handpicked crew of competent minions while Dracula was the one who went big on recruitment and annoyed his dad in the process.

-Jim is still going with 2 million as the figure for the diamonds.

-Jim had actually forgotten about the favour to Odin, it's going to have to come back at the worst time.

-Unseelie Incursion started with Reuel vs Slate and spiraled from there.

-Harry's body might have been taken over by Bonea if she was born without Molly there.

-Wizards look down on tool using as a crutch with the exception of staffs, you're supposed to just do things.

-The castle probably wasn't Camelot itself.

-Harry vs dragon will happen.

-Vadderung was actually a threat to Ferrovax in a fight during Peace Talks. They were two gunslingers staring each other down. Ferrovax does not like Vadderung.

-Hugin and Munin are bodyguards most of the time. The only missions they get are stuff like "Loki got Thor in trouble again, go arrange things so he can get out without letting him know you're there".

-Revenants/Einherjar are made with soulfire, something Vadderung has over other gods, he can make things real. He might have gotten it as a result of deciding to be mortal.

-Nemesis can only be in so many places at once.

-The whole point of Starborn is that they don't have to put up with stuff like Nemesis taking them over. Nemesis can't figure out humans all the time, it spends a lot of time with them but it's still alien to them.

-Thorned Namshiel's potential infected status is a I'm not gonna tell you kind of question.

-Uriel might not have known about Justine being infected in Ghost Story, stuff from the outside can't really be detected with magic.

-British Prisoner was stuck in there by the first warden.
===
Eldest Gruff and the Leansidhe both are and are not similar. Both are advisors but it seems Lea is quite a bit more dangerous...Jim seemed to first say Gruff was nowhere near as important as Lea.
- Kincaid is still doing work for mortals.
- Most fae who were not at the Battle of Chicago were at the Outer Gates.
- Cat Sith may not have survived falling into Lake Michigan. But he may return.
- Cowl and Kumori and Black Council were very busy not being at the Battle of Chicago and being crushed by Ethniu. They specifically don't go out and fight in the open where possible.
- Lots of people may have died such as previous characters in the books.
- Mab was made to fight. Not necessarily Ethniu but it happened anyway. She survived even where other's wouldn't because Mab was prepared.
- Mab has many weapon statues like the Bean full of weapons.
- There is always an Eldest of each race of fairy. It's a mantle but also not.
- Democracy is a human fad to Mab.
- Who runs the Gates is less about which pantheon had the most/enough Faith from mortals and more about who was currently in the right place/right time.
- Librarians will probably show up at the end of the next book "Twelve Months"
- Forty or Fifty thousand starborn IN THE CURRENT CYCLE. Last 40 years got whittled down. Note* I assume Jim is telegraphing how many are born at once.
- You don't have to be mortal to be starborn. You just have to be in the right place. To be "unlucky".
- Drakul was likely immortal like Vadderung.
- Zeus created a body for Athena so that her as a Spirit of Intellect could be a god.
- Justine in Cold Days got to the Island (Demonreach) without even Demonreach knowing. Nemesis cannot be detected unless you already know it is there.
- Nemesis knows the mortal world better than any other Outsider. But not necessarily to the point where it actually understands them. Jim compares it to reading a large block of highly complex code. You might be able to read it but not know all of it.
- Nemesis can be anywhere but it can't always replicate human reactions and things. It is imperfect by definition. It must be fought with logic and intuition.
- Nemesis has a hard limit on how many it can possess/infect (which confirms my theory).

====

New Dresden Files podcast interview.

New Dresden Files podcast interview.

www.paranetonline.com

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGgyJNMA4q8

She is a soldier, and the commander of reality's defenses, and you dont diplomance Outsiders.
She is most definitely combat-specced.

 

[DragonParadox]

Noted.

QUESTION
Do we need to include it as part of this vote, or is there a vote for what to do after Mab leaves?

Click to shrink...

Given that Harry is there no vote is needed. That thing scares him and he wants it gone.