Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Fair enough, though I'd point out that this sort of ability is somewhat common across the stretch of pure nevernever beings that bother dealing with the mortal world.

Yeah, but Molly thinking it might be true doesn't mean it actually is. If we don't have too we shouldn't expend time and social capital we don't need to.

There's also a huge difference between ramming a physical target and getting into a magical slugging match with a necromancer possessing a dollar store demigod.

I think he'll probably refuse and be upset we asked, but not before wasting some of the three seconds we have to act in if we want to capture corpsetaker.

Talking isn't a free action in this system is it?
1)We arent asking it to attempt to get into magical combat with the Capriocorpus, just to counterspell any earth magic in the vicinity using Lydia's powers. Mind magic, necromancy, evocation, none of its concern.
At worst it says no. You cant go wrong from asking.

2)This is not something without precedent.
Earlier in this very long day, back in Merominee it was an option to call on Old Man Mathews to help attack Kattrin Holt , who is a significantly greater threat than the Capriocorpus currently is as a ghost. Especially as Holt then held Cindy as a hostage.

3)Talking is a free action, within reasonable limits; as long as you arent trying to make some longwinded speech you're generally good. Thats why I often include it in stunts.
 
1)We arent asking it to attempt to get into magical combat with the Capriocorpus, just to counterspell any earth magic in the vicinity using Lydia's powers. Mind magic, necromancy, evocation, none of its concern.
At worst it says no. You cant go wrong from asking.
1) That's a pointless hair to split. Once it starts acting against corpsetaker it moves from packmule to problem for them. Who also has no idea what our deal with the wyrm is and therefore doesn't know the limits of his interference; if he rolls initiative then he's effectively in the fight.

2) That was a completely different situation, because Matthews already had at least one dog in that fight already. The wyrm just wants an interior decorator who'll work for barter.

3) Reasonable limits feels like it'd be strained by staying still long enough to talk while dealing with a time table measured in single digit seconds.
 
1) That's a pointless hair to split. Once it starts acting against corpsetaker it moves from packmule to problem for them. Who also has no idea what our deal with the wyrm is and therefore doesn't know the limits of his interference; if he rolls initiative then he's effectively in the fight.

2) That was a completely different situation, because Matthews already had at least one dog in that fight already. The wyrm just wants an interior decorator who'll work for barter.

3) Reasonable limits feels like it'd be strained by staying still long enough to talk while dealing with a time table measured in single digit seconds.
probably shouldn't say 'just' as they could legitimately be dependent on this.
 
Lots of different votes at the moment. Looks like 7 or 8 options.

Might want to consolidate that, ya'll.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Sep 16, 2022 at 8:47 PM, finished with 88 posts and 21 votes.

  • [X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
    -[X]Ask the stone elemental to try and counterspell any stone/earth magic that Lydia or Capi attempts near it
    -[X]Reflexive IPM activation if necessary
    -[X]Activate Melee Excellency. -1 Essence
    -[X]Sprint up the stone into close combat range, grab, and either clinch + drag or tackle them off the staircase. Maintain hold.
    -[X]STUNT: "Block her magic" you whisper to the elemental below you before vaulting off, anima banner screaming to life around you like a declaration of war. Feet pounding, you charge up the shaky edifice of concrete and steel, wraiths rattling off your shield like hail. Lydia, no, the Capriocorpus, begins to back up, her look of triumph replaced by focus as she pilots her stolen body...to do what, you cant tell. And you adjust your trajectory.
    [X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
    -[X] (STUNT) You do not move, you move and the world trembles, knowing better than to oppose you. The air parts, sound muffling, light bending, all giving way to you. You see a rain of blows falling down on you but you persevere. Resisting spectral hands to get at your prize.
    -[X] Activate IPM
    [X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
    -[X] "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil"
    -[X] Trust your father to deal with the possession. Trust Gard to deal with the spirits. It's your job to ensure the bastard doesn't get away with his hostage. Tackle her to the ground and grapple her.
    -[X] If successful taunt the bastard with "The only way out for you is through ME you bastard!" Try to trick him into trying to possess you.
    [X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
    -[X] "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil"
    -[X] Trust your father to deal with the possession. Trust Gard to deal with the spirits. It's your job to ensure the bastard doesn't get away with his hostage. Tackle her to the ground and grapple her.
    -[X] Activate IPM
    -[X] Spend additional WP for success
    -[X] If successful taunt the bastard with "The only way out for you is through ME you bastard!" Try to trick him into trying to possess you.
    [X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
    -[X] "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil"
    -[X] Trust your father to deal with the possession. Trust Gard to deal with the spirits. It's your job to ensure the bastard doesn't get away with his hostage. Tackle her to the ground and grapple her.
    [X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
    -[X] (STUNT) You fluidly rise rise from your seat and jump onto the Earth-Wyrm's nose in a single motion, landing in a crouch. "Throw me," you hiss, and are immediately launched upwards, adding your own jump to increase the height you reach. Specters reach out to stop you, but you use their momentary tangibility against them to use them as stepping stones, throwing your shield to embed in the stone of the gateway as you reach the level Lydia and her possessor are on. "Only way out is through ME," you growl as she turns back towards you in shock.
    -[X] Activate IPM
    [X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
    -[X] (STUNT) You do not move, you move and the world trembles, knowing better than to oppose you. The air parts, sound muffling, light bending, all giving way to you. You see a rain of blows falling down on you but you persevere. Resisting spectral hands to get at your prize.
    -[X] Activate IPM
    -[X] Spend additional WP for success
    [X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
    -[X] Draw Usum and activate melee excellency, attempt to trip Lydia up or knock her down without causing lasting harm.
    -[X] Reserve the second essence point for this turn for IPM
    [X] (Stunt) As you draw Usum and take your first step forward the cold seems to seep into your bones, bringing power with it. Then you blur forward with a flash of brass and an echo of hissing fire.
 
1) That's a pointless hair to split. Once it starts acting against corpsetaker it moves from packmule to problem for them. Who also has no idea what our deal with the wyrm is and therefore doesn't know the limits of his interference; if he rolls initiative then he's effectively in the fight.

2) That was a completely different situation, because Matthews already had at least one dog in that fight already. The wyrm just wants an interior decorator who'll work for barter.

3) Reasonable limits feels like it'd be strained by staying still long enough to talk while dealing with a time table measured in single digit seconds.
1)No it isnt.
As it currently stands the elemental is already a problem for Corpsetaker, who has no reason to assume the stone/earth elemental who guided and transported us here will stay out of combat.

The mad and tortured ghosts she threw as an area of effect weapon arent exactly precision guided munitons.

2)Conversely, Mathews had much greater reason to stay out of any combat, or even to enter on Holt's side.
Yet it was an option for us to ask.
Here, the stone elemental has nothing to benefit from Capri. No hostage to fortune. Its lair isnt even obvious.

3)The wyrm isnt just asking for an interior decorator, else it would have worked on suborning any of the packs of vagrants that passed through the area in return for security.
Who does the work matters when it comes to magical stuff.

4)Three words is not a long speech.
And the previous update explicitly assumed Molly had enough time to give the elemental instructions to knock down the stairs as part of a surprise round.
What do you do?
[] Warn dad, he's the one with the sword and faith can banish dark things that cloud the mind of the innocent
[] Get your elemental friend to ram the stair, Lydia will most likely get hurt, but it's better than some monster pulling her strings like a puppet
[] Write in


OOC: The second expenditure of Essence was for a Subterfuge Excellency without which it would have been very unlikely for you guys to hide that you know, thus costing you the surprise round. I figured that was worth spending.
If you arent making big speeches, you can assume that game mechanics allows reasonable communciations.
 
1)No it isnt.
As it currently stands the elemental is already a problem for Corpsetaker, who has no reason to assume the stone/earth elemental who guided and transported us here will stay out of combat.

The mad and tortured ghosts she threw as an area of effect weapon arent exactly precision guided munitons.

2)Conversely, Mathews had much greater reason to stay out of any combat, or even to enter on Holt's side.
Yet it was an option for us to ask.
Here, the stone elemental has nothing to benefit from Capri. No hostage to fortune. Its lair isnt even obvious.

3)The wyrm isnt just asking for an interior decorator, else it would have worked on suborning any of the packs of vagrants that passed through the area in return for security.
Who does the work matters when it comes to magical stuff.

4)Three words is not a long speech.
And the previous update explicitly assumed Molly had enough time to give the elemental instructions to knock down the stairs as part of a surprise round.

If you arent making big speeches, you can assume that game mechanics allows reasonable communciations.
1) Yes it is; corpsetaker is trying to flee, they aren't going to bother specifically targeting things that aren't impeding that because they need to focus on getting away.

If they actually do use Lydia's earth magic then the wyrm contesting it immediately makes it a blocker to whatever they're trying to do to escape. It makes a retaliatory strike a lot more reasonable a concern.

2) The basis of getting Matthews involved would have been convincing him that the fight was winnable. In any case, we avoided going that because it was too risky, so it doesn't do anything to change the discussion we've been having. Sure it might be IC, but there are plenty of other IC options that are better ideas.

3) Quality matters sure, but my point was that the investment in so far as we can measure it is more of a long term want than an immediate need. Which changes the value judgement on how much he'll involve himself in our stuff.

4) Set a three second timer and then try to imagine the sequence of events we're talking about. Fudging the details doesn't matter that much when the talking can happen concurrently, or doesn't matter to the way the scene plays out.

This matters in the same way a somatic component does in dnd. We have to stay still and close enough to actually be clearly heard, then move. How exactly it plays out matters when victory or defeat is seconds away.

As to the ramming option, that would basically have been our surprise round.
 
1) Yes it is; corpsetaker is trying to flee, they aren't going to bother specifically targeting things that aren't impeding that because they need to focus on getting away. If they actually do use Lydia's earth magic then the wyrm contesting it immediately makes it a blocker to whatever they're trying to do to escape. It makes a retaliatory strike a lot more reasonable a concern.

2) The basis of getting Matthews involved would have been convincing him that the fight was winnable. In any case, we avoided going that because it was too risky, so it doesn't do anything to change the discussion we've been having. Sure it might be IC, but there are plenty of other IC options that are better ideas.

3) Quality matters sure, but my point was that the investment in so far as we can measure it is more of a long term want than an immediate need. Which changes the value judgement on how much he'll involve himself in our stuff.

4) Set a three second timer and then try to imagine the sequence of events we're talking about. Fudging the details doesn't matter that much when the talking can happen concurrently, or doesn't matter to the way the scene plays out.

This matters in the same way a somatic component does in dnd. We have to stay still and close enough to actually be clearly heard, then move. How exactly it plays out matters when victory or defeat is seconds away.

As to the ramming option, that would basically have been our surprise round.
1)I see where your error is. Thing is, Corpsetaker is not trying to flee.
I repeat: Corpsetaker is not trying to flee.

By WoQM, the portal is one turn away from her position. After Michael flubbed our surprise round, we apparently rolled Initiative and she got to act first. But instead of bolting across the portal and slammimg the door, which would have her and her hostage in safety and the rest of us sucking dust, she spends her action making a necromancy attack with a fright of spectres to see who she can kill.

Which is very much in character for the canon Capriocorpus, who was always overly convinced of her own capability.
In Dead Beat, she died trying to solo melee a warparty of Wardens instead of just continuing to throw ghosts at them or to shoot them. And her Final Death in Ghost Story was due to underestimating an ectomancer in his place of power.

She isnt stupid, mind; the portal is right there, and if the fight starts going wrong, she could retreat through it and slam the door.
She's covered every conceivable angle and threat she's aware of.

But the lowrisk, guaranteed payoff move was to retreat.
And like a sucker at the casino table who won a great bet, instead of cashing out her winnings, she's letting her bet ride.
Lady should have listened to Kenny Rogers.



2)The basis for getting Mathews involved would have been convincing him that we could save his granddaughter.
The man made it clear that their collective safety was his priority, even over his own; a situation where he and Molly working together defeated or killed Kattrin Holt and Cindy died to a fail deadly contingency was not acceptable.

And we had no way of preventing a death curse, assuming Kattrin is human enough to have one(jury's out for a Valkyrie).
Or a remote-triggered entropy curse, like the one that killed the victims in Storm Front and Blood Rites.
Or even something as simple as a "if no phone call from this number with these words in thirty minutes, feed her to the ghouls".

3) Fair.

4) Counterpoint: Michael's failed exorcism Prayer.
"Most glorious Prince of the Heavenly Armies,
Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in "our battle against principalities and
powers,
against the rulers of this world of darkness,
against the spirits of wickedness in the high places"
The Capriocorpus speech.
"Your God has not power over me, for I have slipped the chains of death and the demands of His Judgement. A hundred deaths I have faced and all of them I have cast onto those too weak to keep their lives from me."
Both of these happened this update. Note the length.
The narrative bends enough for multi-sentence speeches to fit inside combat turns, because narrative.
I have no anxiety about Molly not having enough time to speak if its necessary.
 
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Yeah, this is not quite 'speaking is a free action' leeway, but this is an Exalted cross, if I did not let the people show off in a fight what's the point? As long as you keep the talking to a reasonable length you're fine.
 
Yeah, this is not quite 'speaking is a free action' leeway, but this is an Exalted cross, if I did not let the people show off in a fight what's the point? As long as you keep the talking to a reasonable length you're fine.
I can't wait to be powerful enough to do a villain monologue confidently against mid level threats of the mortal variety. Cause what's even the point if we can't make an epic speech of awesomeness and be exaggeratingly overconfident on what are usually decent power players?
 
Some modifications to @uju32 vote:
[X]Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
-[X]Ask the stone elemental to try and counterspell any stone/earth magic that Lydia or Capi attempts near it
-[X]Reflexive IPM activation if necessary
-[X]Activate Melee Excellency. -1 Essence
-[X]Sprint up the stone into close combat range, grab, and either clinch + drag or tackle them off the staircase. Maintain hold.
-[X] Throw your shield at the door's frame to prevent the door from being opened
-[X]STUNT: "Block her magic" you whisper to the elemental below you before vaulting off, anima banner screaming to life around you like a declaration of war. Feet pounding, you charge up the shaky edifice of concrete and steel, wraiths rattling off your shield like hail. Lydia, no, the Capriocorpus, begins to back up, her look of triumph replaced by focus as she pilots her stolen body...to do what, you cant tell. You adjust your trajectory, and as you close your distance, you discard your shield, throwing it like a discus at the door the necromancer is trying to escape through in an attempt to prevent it from being opened.


If we are grappling Lydia's body, we don't need the shield. It would actually hinder us. We can just as well do this, so, if we fail, she still can't escape.
 
Although Without Honor, Without Hope and stunting still brings us to 8 dice of Brawl, because Exalted are Cheating Cheaters who Cheat, and we have a Charm that lets us cheat even harder here than at stitching that guy up earlier.

Still, I'd prefer a plan that plays to our strengths, and if we could use our still-running Subterfuge Excellency to roll 16 dice to bluff the Corpsetaker into abandoning her current host for a futile attempt at possessing a Celestial Exalt who's categorically immune, that would be a winning plan for me.
 
Given that video makes a compelling point I'm going to say yes. You can grapple with the same skills you use in Melee, though I am going to say it comes with a higher DC due to the greater complexity than doing it bare handed and with brawl
Given we're dealing with exalted levels of skill with five dots in basically all melee weapons means its not that much higher right? Simply cause many weapons would presumably have had many methods made over the years? Not even counting once we might get exalted martial arts that aren't exactly limited to things like logic or distance or causality.
 
Given we're dealing with exalted levels of skill with five dots in basically all melee weapons means its not that much higher right? Simply cause many weapons would presumably have had many methods made over the years? Not even counting once we might get exalted martial arts that aren't exactly limited to things like logic or distance or causality.

You guys already get that bonus in the form of the ludicrous number of dice you are throwing at it
 
Oh I'm not asking to make the difficulty lower I'm asking its not as high as it normally should be right in say a normal person who doesn't practically have 5 dots in every melee weapon?

It is the same difficulty as a mortal trying to do the same thing because it is the same thing, exalted skill is measured in the dots that become dice and the excellency that doubles them . You guys have a decent chance at getting through DC 9 on your Key Abilities even without excellency precisely because you cheat with powers from before the dawn of history,

There is no nebulous skill that would make the DC for anything easier for you than it is for mortals, there are charms that do that like CCC which work by their own rules.
 
[X] Yog

Finding out we can grapple with Melee convinced me of the basic plan, and I like throwing the shield better than not doing it.
 
Some modifications to @uju32 vote:
[X]Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
-[X]Ask the stone elemental to try and counterspell any stone/earth magic that Lydia or Capi attempts near it
-[X]Reflexive IPM activation if necessary
-[X]Activate Melee Excellency. -1 Essence
-[X]Sprint up the stone into close combat range, grab, and either clinch + drag or tackle them off the staircase. Maintain hold.
-[X] Throw your shield at the door's frame to prevent the door from being opened
-[X]STUNT: "Block her magic" you whisper to the elemental below you before vaulting off, anima banner screaming to life around you like a declaration of war. Feet pounding, you charge up the shaky edifice of concrete and steel, wraiths rattling off your shield like hail. Lydia, no, the Capriocorpus, begins to back up, her look of triumph replaced by focus as she pilots her stolen body...to do what, you cant tell. You adjust your trajectory, and as you close your distance, you discard your shield, throwing it like a discus at the door the necromancer is trying to escape through in an attempt to prevent it from being opened.

If we are grappling Lydia's body, we don't need the shield. It would actually hinder us. We can just as well do this, so, if we fail, she still can't escape.
1) With wraiths flying around and making attacks of opportunity, you do not throw away the item that reduces your Parry DC from DC6 to DC4. We're tough, but not quite that tough.

2)Molly has no ability to see the structure of the portal. No Sight, and pisspoor magic senses: Awareness 0, Alertness 0.
No idea how big it is, no odea how wide, or where the borders are.
Visual lightshow does not delineate magical structure.

For all we know its displaced a foot to the side, or is much slimmer, or expands when people and objects come close.
And the Capriocorpus was very good at veils in canon.
Molly would be throwing blind in the hope that it has an effect, something thats frankly really unwise given her tactical situation.

3)The Capriocorpus is a full blown wizard with more than two hundred years of life.
She can literally open a new NeverNever portal with an act of will; its not difficult for a wizard of her experience. Dresden used to do much the same thing, with no tools. Even success costs us a shield we'll need in exchange for something she can undo quite readily.


All in all, shield throws are a terrible idea in this tactical situation.
 
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IPM can be activated reflexively in response to an attack, but that does not mean automatically. One can chose not to spend the essence in response to a mental attack if you do not think it's worth it.
My single change is immediate IPM activation instead of reflexive.
Corpsetaker is very good at veils and I do not want to have to roll for if Molly notices the necessity of activating it.

Falling for a Veil would suck.

[X] Ignore the ghosts, you are tough, go after Lydia
-[X]Ask the stone elemental to try and counterspell any stone/earth magic that Lydia or Capi attempts near it
-[X]Activate IPM
-[X]Activate Melee Excellency. -1 Essence
-[X]Sprint up the stone into close combat range, grab, and either clinch + drag or tackle them off the staircase. Maintain hold.
-[X]STUNT: "Block her magic" you whisper to the elemental below you before vaulting off, anima banner screaming to life around you like a declaration of war. Feet pounding, you charge up the shaky edifice of concrete and steel, wraiths rattling off your shield like hail. Lydia, no, the Capriocorpus, begins to back up, her look of triumph replaced by focus as she pilots her stolen body...to do what, you cant tell. And you adjust your trajectory.
 
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