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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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If the debate is about where to go with proper wards after getting Lydia, I will point out that not only do we have holy ground as a fallback option, we potentially have Harry's place, and if Gard/Marcone doesn't have multiple warded safehouses in Chicago we can potentially fall back to, I'll eat my hat. Especially since Gard's specialty is runes and warding.

Edit: actually, I'm pretty sure Lydia's house is heavily warded, too, so if she joins the party, that's a plenty good fallback position we can go to.
 
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bengalqueen said:
If the debate is about where to go with proper wards after getting Lydia, I will point out that not only do we have holy ground as a fallback option, we potentially have Harry's place, and if Gard/Marcone doesn't have multiple warded safehouses in Chicago we can potentially fall back to, I'll eat my hat. Especially since Gard's specialty is runes and warding.

Edit: actually, I'm pretty sure Lydia's house is heavily warded, too, so if she joins the party, that's a plenty good fallback position we can go to.
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My point was that even behind wards there's a point where surrendering initiative starts to become a serious problem. Letting this become a hunt where she tries to intercept us in transit, or backs off until she feels prepared to take us, gives her the ability to choose exactly when and how she wants the fight to start.

I could see Lydia's house going either way in terms of wards.

It probably hasn't been lived in very long, and only one of the residents is actually a mortal. That sounds like a recipe for a weak threshold, limiting their options for wards.

The plant bundles her dad hangs up and the refusal to open the windows at night reinforce the impression that he's got some sort of hack job going instead of traditional defenses to me.
 
uju32 said:
Remember who your Mentor 5 is. And who the PC is when you attempt cold blooded murder.
And wnat the consquences are for the PC.

Because too many people forget what we signed up for when we chose to roleplay Molly Carpenter, loving daughter of Michael Carpenter, Knight of the Cross.
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This is not cold blooded murder. It's preemptive defense of self and others against a 1,000+ year old supernatural monster that has performed multiple Human sacrifices, participated in who knows how many murders and other atrocities, is among the leaders of a faction of Nazi warlocks, and kidnapped a child to blackmail her grandfather into participating in what appears to be yet another sacrificial ritual, one intended to make her an even bigger monster, if a pretty one.

If trying to pull off a long-range kill against the deadly sorceress who can manipulate time to her will and is even now coming here to re-kidnap Cindy is what causes Michael to forsake us, then it's better we go ahead and get that out of the way now.
 
If we are heading to another exit I don't think we need to crash the car. Best to use that card when we have an ambush to follow up with it.

[X] uju32

That said I'm not sure it would be the safest for Hendricks to stick around? Maybe we should tell him to avoid the area instead and then head to wherever we will be emerging.
 
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JayTar said:
If we are heading to another exit I don't think we need to crash the car. Best to use that card when we have an ambush to follow up with it.

[X] uju32

That said I'm not sure it would be the safest for Hendricks to stick around? Maybe we should tell him to avoid the area instead and then head to wherever we will be emerging.
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I think it comes down to what we use the time for.

An ambush would be ideal, but is very difficult to arrange given the areas we're operating in.

But since we know where Matthews and the ritual site are, just getting her out of the game for a few hours could very well give us the time we need to roll this whole thing up behind her.

Leave the kid at church, then get Matthews out and burn the building down behind him. At which point Kat has to start from scratch with almost no time left before her window closes.
 
[x] Have Black Rider take the mirrors off of or otherwise clip a cop car. Or just cut one off or swerve into their lane.
Preferably something that seems like it could just be a fault. If nothing else, slipping the cops (I'm assuming that she doesn't want a massive throwdown with the police in broad daylight, in the middle of chicago) would delay her. And if, for some reason, she *does* fight, that will quickly draw a whole lot of attention, most of it likely unfriendly.
 
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Also want to point out that, if we get Lydia to join the party, she can just call her dad and tell him about the trap that's waiting for the First Ankou, and then we potentially have him on-side while we smash Katrina's face in.

I don't know about you, but that's a potential player I would love to have on the board for ambushing Katrina when she doesn't have the ritual for the Black Feast set up. Especially since her big trump card automatically becomes less useful the more people she's fighting at once.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I think it comes down to what we use the time for.

An ambush would be ideal, but is very difficult to arrange given the areas we're operating in.

But since we know where Matthews and the ritual site are, just getting her out of the game for a few hours could very well give us the time we need to roll this whole thing up behind her.

Leave the kid at church, then get Matthews out and burn the building down behind him. At which point Kat has to start from scratch with almost no time left before her window closes.
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Sure, but do we need to crash the car now for any of that? We know Kattrin is going to be spending the next 45 minutes heading to the tattoo parlor. She then spends an indeterminate amount of time there, and then has to spend another 45 minutes to get back if she wants to.

Assuming we don't spend too much time in undertown we could get Lydia, exit and get Hendricks to pick us up and head to Matthews without needing to crash her car.

Basically, are we trying to stop her from getting to the tattoo parlor, or are we trying to stop her from getting back to Matthews before we do? Because if it is the second then it benefits us to let her get as far away from it as she is traveling now, and then crash her car when she tries to head back (assuming such is necessary).

The best time to cause the crash would be right before the time crunch/race against time happens. Not now when she has time to get another vehicle and adapt.
 
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JayTar said:
Sure, but do we need to crash the car now for any of that? We know Kattrin is going to be spending the next 45 minutes heading to the tattoo parlor. She then spends an indeterminate amount of time there, and then has to spend another 45 minutes to get back if she wants to.

Assuming we don't spend too much time in undertown we could get Lydia, exit and get Hendricks to pick us up and head to Matthews without needing to crash her car.

Basically, are we trying to stop her from getting to the tattoo parlor, or are we trying to stop her from getting back to Matthews before we do? Because if it is the second then it benefits us to let her get as far away from it as she is traveling now, and then crash her car when she tries to head back (assuming such is necessary).

The best time to cause the crash would be right before the time crunch/race against time happens. Not now when she has time to get another vehicle and adapt.
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Crashing it now helps us actually escape; we can't just walk out of here because of the cops at the tattoo parlor, so we need to explore the area and find a way out, then work from there. Stopping to hunt down Lydia would take even longer, especially since just getting to her isn't the same as dealing with whatever she's go going on and leaving with her.

Crashing it mid trip serves that purpose and helps boost us in the next few things we probably want to pursue.

I also don't expect her to just walk this off and get in a cab. This is a huge public mess for her that needs handling, even discounting what should be some very serious injuries.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Crashing it now helps us actually escape; we can't just walk out of here because of the cops at the tattoo parlor, so we need to explore the area and find a way out, then work from there. Stopping to hunt down Lydia would take even longer, especially since just getting to her isn't the same as dealing with whatever she's go going on and leaving with her.

Crashing it mid trip serves that purpose and helps boost us in the next few things we probably want to pursue.

I also don't expect her to just walk this off and get in a cab. This is a huge public mess for her that needs handling, even discounting what should be some very serious injuries.
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Well we can its basically an entire small city down here there are hundreds of exits. The real problem is encounters to get away from the section we are under right now then finding a way out.

Edit: honestly getting a complete map of then place with notes on dangers and general zones of certain monsters and gangs would be nice.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Crashing it now helps us actually escape; we can't just walk out of here because of the cops at the tattoo parlor, so we need to explore the area and find a way out, then work from there. Stopping to hunt down Lydia would take even longer, especially since just getting to her isn't the same as dealing with whatever she's go going on and leaving with her.

Crashing it mid trip serves that purpose and helps boost us in the next few things we probably want to pursue.

I also don't expect her to just walk this off and get in a cab. This is a huge public mess for her that needs handling, even discounting what should be some very serious injuries.
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That first part only matters if we plan to be exiting the way we came in. Catching up with Lydia and then heading for a different exit both take us away from the tattoo parlor. Even assuming that takes us more then 45 minutes total, if Katrina were to wish to attempt to hunt us she would have to enter undertown and try to follow our trail. Seeing as we would be 30+45 or more minutes away from the entrance she would be using she would have little hope in catching up with us.

Basically I don't think Katrina's arrival at the tattoo parlor is a threat to us unless we plan to be exiting through the tattoo parlor. Because we aren't there is no need to try to delay her.

Whatever mess we could give her big or small would be better timed when we need it, not right now. As long as whatever things we next want to pursue aren't at the tattoo parlor then it is better for us for her to waste her time there. Then we can spend the car to delay her later when she might be heading to somewhere more important.

The default vote options are "Prepare to fight Katrina" and "Find another exit". This presumes that if we plan to find another exit it means we won't have to deal directly with Katrina. Thus crashing the car to delay her is unnecessary.
 
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[X]Write-in: Inform others of Kattrin coming, and how far away she is. Go after Lydia first, then find alternate path to surface.
-[X]Crown of Eyes: Plot path to the current location and destination of Daniel Carpenter's current girlfriend.
-[X]If Gard gives number for Hendricks' burner phone, type message for Clippy to tell Bunny to send a text message to Hendricks updating him on status and plans, giving him a description of the car, and to keep an eye out for the occupants.
[X]STUNT: You pocket your phone as you get off your knee. "Holt's car's coming this way. Forty five minutes out at current speeds. And she's bringing a friend." Abrupt silence meets your declaration, and you take a moment to dust off your knee. "Cant tell what it is, just that its human shaped and fits in a car seat, but has no life signs. Time we get Cindy" a nod"out of here." You pause, mind racing, as you finally make a connection. "Wait....Holt's a seer isnt she?" you say slowly. "Could she predict the Ankou's daughter would...." The expression on Gard's face gives you your answer. "Fff...udge. Alright everyone, change of plans."
 
Honestly? I would rather fight her, here and now, rather than drag if on any further.

[X] uju32

I like this the best of the two. No offence but I rather not burn Black Rider unless we are going to fight Kathrina.
 
And we're currently tied up.
Adhoc vote count started by bengalqueen on Sep 14, 2022 at 12:47 AM, finished with 138 posts and 17 votes.
  • [X] Black Rider Will Ride Again!
    -[X] Assuming he can confirm that Katrina is driving, give Black Rider the command to crash his current chassis into a nearby solid object, such as a large tree, stationary garbage truck, sturdy wall, etc. at maximum acceleration with a specific aim toward injuring Katrina as seriously as possible, perhaps even killing her, so long as doing so doesn't endanger bystanders. Going over the side of a bridge would be a good alternative, if an opportunity presents itself.
    --[X] Black Rider will interface with Clippy, using information about this model of car and automobile accidents in general pulled from the internet, to insure the crash is as severe as he can manage. He will also send Clippy all of his GPS data so we can retrace Katrina's route.
    ---[X] Before initiating the crash, he is to lock the doors, prevent Katrina from braking, prevent the seat belts from properly engaging, and trigger all of the airbags a moment before impact in order to render them ineffective.
    ----[X] Assure Black Rider that we will find him a new chassis soon.
    -[X] Using the extra time this buys us, we will try to locate Lydia while also searching for another exit from Undertown. Michael will keep a close guard on Cindy for the time being. Ask Gard if she has any quick and dirty means to keep Katrina from easily tracking Cindy's location, assuming she probably has hair or even blood samples from the girl.
    [X]Write-in: Inform others of Kattrin coming, and how far away she is. Go after Lydia first, then find alternate path to surface.
    -[X]Crown of Eyes: Plot path to the current location and destination of Daniel Carpenter's current girlfriend.
    -[X]If Gard gives number for Hendricks' burner phone, type message for Clippy to tell Bunny to send a text message to Hendricks updating him on status and plans, giving him a description of the car, and to keep an eye out for the occupants.
    [X]STUNT: You pocket your phone as you get off your knee. "Holt's car's coming this way. Forty five minutes out at current speeds. And she's bringing a friend." Abrupt silence meets your declaration, and you take a moment to dust off your knee. "Cant tell what it is, just that its human shaped and fits in a car seat, but has no life signs. Time we get Cindy" a nod"out of here." You pause, mind racing, as you finally make a connection. "Wait....Holt's a seer isnt she?" you say slowly. "Could she predict the Ankou's daughter would...." The expression on Gard's face gives you your answer. "Fff...udge. Alright everyone, change of plans."
    [X] We need to find another way out to the city, we can't get into a fight while Cindy is with us
    [X] One of us can hang back with Cindy once we are closer to the surface and we can deal with Katrina once and for all
    -[X] Ask Michael to stay back. Not because he is less relevant in fight, but because he is the best option for protecting an innocent during this mess.
    -[X] Ask Black Rider to crash the car into the most solid object near the tattoo parlor it can find (the one with lowest odds of demolishing a building and harming people). Activate the airbags shortly before impact, both to make them useless and to stop Kattrin from bracing for the hit. Then it's time to face her.
    [X] Inform the others of incoming Katrin and nonbreathing company.
    -[X] Set up an ambush at the ladder of the basement
    [X] Inform others of Kattrin coming, and how far away she is
    [X] Use Lydia's picture (phone our brother if we don't have it and there's none in the Internet to find) and the Crown to locate her, then go find her now. She can't be allowed to fall into Kattrin's hands, if what you suspect about her ancestry is true.
    [x] Have Black Rider take the mirrors off of or otherwise clip a cop car. Or just cut one off or swerve into their lane.
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Goldfish said:
So, @Artemis1992, @Yzarc, @Madsamurai, @LightLan, @Yog, @TonedMite, there are two very different voting options in the lead, mine and @uju32's, while ya'll are kinda voting all over the place.

I figured you might want to consolidate your votes one way or the other, considering just how different the leading options are.
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I disagree with further pushing away the confrontation.
When we have found Lydia we are not suddenly better at fighting Kattrin, we just have another liability with us.
Kill her now, and Lydia is as safe as she can be in the undertown.
Your's and uju's votes are basically the same in that you are going after Lydia, with only details like the car-crash changed.

It's a waste of the initiative.

@uju32
The absolutly worst thing that can happen to us is Kattrin actually coming after us with the initiative, with some more mooks, with anything she has specfically prepared for us.
Attacking her first is always the better option than being attacked and an ambush here is at least not something she is certain to forsee, even if she will be generally prepared for trouble.

If you find my plan for a confrontation on the street too open then do so in the ghoul-cave or wherever you see fitting. But don't let her choose when and where to kill us.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
The absolutly worst thing that can happen to us is Kattrin actually coming after us with the initiative, with some more mooks, with anything she has specfically prepared for us.
Attacking her first is always the better option than being attacked and an ambush here is at least not something she is certain to forsee, even if she will be generally prepared for trouble.

If you find my plan for a confrontation on the street too open then do so in the ghoul-cave or wherever you see fitting. But don't let her choose when and where to kill us.
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I agree with all these points. Delaying the confrontation is ceding the initiative, disclosing to Katrina that a Knight of the Cross is involved (which is a big trump), that Gard is onvolved, which she also is not aware of, and in fact made preparations to make impossible. We have shintai, and we have a lot of essence. We could maneuver to use CCC in the fight. All these are things that push me towards the confrontation. However, we really can't confront Holt in the middle of the day in a busy district of Chicago with a ton of cops and paramedics nearby due to an active crime scene.

We also have consistently ignored Lydia, which led to the current situation, and I feel that if we keep ignoring her, this will lead to bad end for her, with her either dead, possessed, turned into a vampire, or captured by necromancers. We need to get her. Getting her is also practical, as she can stay with Cindy while we are fighting. Because yes, the moment we can, we should be fighting Holt. Because there are no more preparations we can make. We can't call on any more allies reliably, while she can. Time is on her side from the moment she talks to any of her thralls or investigates what happened.
 
I would like to point out that getting Lydia doesn't really necessitate putting off the confrontation. Rather, I would actually vote for "confront her now" vote that would deal with paramedics and actually set up the confrontation somehow.
 
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