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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Hey here is an idea. Black rider has presumably been keeping logs right? So Black rider should know where she dropped off Mathews right?

What if we pull a switcheroo? Leave the tattoo parlor, get in a car and head to where she just came from by a different route. We could drop Cindy off somewhere safe on the way. Take a picture of her and show it to Mathews when we get to him. That would immediately disarm any role he previously had in their plans.

It would also give us the opportunity to attack whatever location he is at. Likely an important location to their plans.
 
Yup.
DragonParadox said:
"In her mortal life Katrina was a seer as well, far did she see and subtle was her mind, yet as her sight grew stronger, her bitterness grew also, she saw herself going down the cold halls of ages made less than she was, less than she had been promised while the people of Midgard forgot us, while the memory of gods twisted into giants and trolls like an old tree gnarled in poisoned soil. Like a cup with poison she was filled all in secret..."
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Kattrin is a fucking seer.
We dont know how her Sight works, but its worth remembering its there.
Goddamit.
 
JayTar said:
Hey here is an idea. Black rider has presumably been keeping logs right? So Black rider should know where she dropped off Mathews right?

What if we pull a switcheroo? Leave the tattoo parlor, get in a car and head to where she just came from by a different route. We could drop Cindy off somewhere safe on the way. Take a picture of her and show it to Mathews when we get to him. That would immediately disarm any role he previously had in their plans.

It would also give us the opportunity to attack whatever location he is at. Likely an important location to their plans.
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Problem: Lydia.
Goldfish said:
Another reason to impede her as much as possible now to buy us more time to get Cindy to safety and maybe find Lydia, too.
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Lets not give the seer reason to look at her car's magic history or attempt to track it back to us.
Because if she has postcog of any responsiveness and reliability, looking at Molly's activity of the last three days will lay a lot of our contingencies bare.

Im thinking Yog is right. We need to go after Lydia now.
We just need to find the right questions

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Will Crown of Eyes lead us to Lydia's current location?
 
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uju32 said:
Michael's home was where Dresden canonically took Gard and Hendricks after Deirdre gutted her while kidnapping Marcone in Small Favor. Its not a fortress against all evil, but its a fair sanctuary, with people who actually understand the risks involved, and a bona fide panic room.
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I don't remember the particulars, but I don't think it was meant to shelter people actively hunted for by forces of evil. And it's definitely not good to expose our family to danger. No, I think we should get Lydia and Cindy, and then set up an ambush. Kattrin doesn't know we know she's coming. She doesn't know about Michael, or us, or what we can do. She might expect Gard, but even that's unlikely. We should fight her once we secure the hostages. There's not much else we can do to prepare, and I feel that further prep might actually harm us, as Kattrin also get benefit of it. She would definitely investigate who attacked her thralls. That would let her learn about us and MIchael. MIchael's second big trump here is surprise. Let's not discard it.
 
DragonParadox said:
Current location is fine, what you cannot get is a running feed of her location. Normally you would be able to ask about something in motion 'where do I need to go to find her' rather than 'where is is', but this is a person with free will so you cannot divine her future like that.
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Can we ask for her destination? She intends to go? Not "will go" (because free will and plans change), but her intended route at this moment.
 
I'm not keen on having Cindy with us when we fight Katarina. The whole point of this is to deprive her of a hostage, not put her in more risk.

[X] We need to find another way out to the city, we can't get into a fight while Cindy is with us
 
uju32 said:
Tattoo parlor is the site of EMS and police investigations. Do that and you will kill a ton of law enforcement.
And sacrifice our only tracker, with no guarantee of actually killing or trapping her.

Also, its still mid-afternoon up top. In the middle of Chicago. Collateral damage YES. Witnesses YES.

As for whatever she brought with her, we dont know what it is.
Standard zombies require a drumbeat for control. I would not swear that whatever a Norse necromancer brings to play will have the same limitations; she knows that whatever could unpick her ward has to have some magic skill
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I was thinking that the inhuman reflexes of the cyber devil would make it possible to arrange a no casualty collision, especially since we didn't exactly call in an all hands on deck situation. One stable stabbing victim isn't going to get the place surrounded by police cars.

On a more general note, Kat is definitely dangerous, but I doubt she's broken a core aspect of necromancy so casually. If only because Kemmler would have dissected her over it.

She is old, and has had time to prep, but there's only so much you can feasibly plan for with limited information.

If she was some sort of hyper seer capable of playing 5D chess against a baby exalt, a peer level Valkyrie, and a knight of the cross and beat them after getting slapped with a lethal ambush then we aren't winning this anyway.

She has to have limits somewhere.

Now that we've got some support on our side and have started picking apart her plan we should take the initiative to press them. Otherwise we basically invite her to chase us around until she finds a time to strike the suits her.

[X] Goldfish

I'd prefer something that involves us going to murder her after the crash, but I can accept a compromise here since seeing her reaction will tell us a lot about how concerned we should actually be.

@Goldfish I think dropping the call out might be a good idea. She might take a poke at the car if she can, but the devil revealing himself would likely push it up her priority list a bit.

Plus announcing himself after failing to kill her doesn't seem like Odin's style, and impersonating him might have consequences.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I was thinking that the inhuman reflexes of the cyber devil would make it possible to arrange a no casualty collision, especially since we didn't exactly call in an all hands on deck situation. One stable stabbing victim isn't going to get the place surrounded by police cars.

On a more general note, Kat is definitely dangerous, but I doubt she's broken a core aspect of necromancy so casually. If only because Kemmler would have dissected her over it.

She is old, and has had time to prep, but there's only so much you can feasibly plan for with limited information.

If she was some sort of hyper seer capable of playing 5D chess against a baby exalt, a peer level Valkyrie, and a knight of the cross and beat them after getting slapped with a lethal ambush then we aren't winning this anyway.

She has to have limits somewhere.

Now that we've got some support on our side and have started picking apart her plan we should take the initiative to press them. Otherwise we basically invite her to chase us around until she finds a time to strike the suits her.

[X] Goldfish

I'd prefer something that involves us going to murder her after the crash, but I can accept a compromise here since seeing her reaction will tell us a lot about how concerned we should actually be.

@Goldfish I think dropping the call out might be a good idea. She might take a poke at the car if she can, but the devil revealing himself would likely push it up her priority list a bit.

Plus announcing himself after failing to kill her doesn't seem like Odin's style, and impersonating him might have consequences.
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Aww, but then the plan's name doesn't make sense.

Okay, updating it now.
 
Seriously, with complete control of the car, we could have it accelerate and then spin in such a way to broadside a steel reinforced pillar.

I think we're trying too hard here. Just kill her. Use her desire for luxury against her and turn her into sausage meat.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
I was thinking that the inhuman reflexes of the cyber devil would make it possible to arrange a no casualty collision, especially since we didn't exactly call in an all hands on deck situation. One stable stabbing victim isn't going to get the place surrounded by police cars.

On a more general note, Kat is definitely dangerous, but I doubt she's broken a core aspect of necromancy so casually. If only because Kemmler would have dissected her over it.

She is old, and has had time to prep, but there's only so much you can feasibly plan for with limited information.

If she was some sort of hyper seer capable of playing 5D chess against a baby exalt, a peer level Valkyrie, and a knight of the cross and beat them after getting slapped with a lethal ambush then we aren't winning this anyway.

She has to have limits somewhere.

Now that we've got some support on our side and have started picking apart her plan we should take the initiative to press them. Otherwise we basically invite her to chase us around until she finds a time to strike the suits her.

[X] Goldfish

I'd prefer something that involves us going to murder her after the crash, but I can accept a compromise here since seeing her reaction will tell us a lot about how concerned we should actually be.

@Goldfish I think dropping the call out might be a good idea. She might take a poke at the car if she can, but the devil revealing himself would likely push it up her priority list a bit.

Plus announcing himself after failing to kill her doesn't seem like Odin's style, and impersonating him might have consequences.
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1)Even traffic stops sometimes see two or more cars.
A crime scene with at least one AK, three used EMP devices and a giant hole ripped/blown in the back wall? They're going to have the Bomb Squad making sure there are no explosives in the area even before Forensics takes a look.

Just processing the crime scene is going to take the rest of the day.

2)At the climactic battle of Dead Beat, Capriocorpus had no beat for her ghosts. Kravos didnt need one to control his ghosts
In Ghost Story, the Capriocorpus and Evil Bob controlled a whole passel of ghosts and wraiths without the need for one
Zombies are mindless automatons controlled by a beat. Spectres are a different matter.

If she has bound and embodied a spectre in a dead corpse or a golem, no beat necessary. And thats what I'm worried about.

3)She's not infallible, but she's competent.

Her being a seer is what Im realizing her plan seems to be pivoting on, and which we forgot about.
If we jack her car and attempt to kill her with it, like your vote suggests, we tell her that her Sight is not reliable in this situation.
Which is a core advantage gone.

Thats just a terrible idea.
Molly is Outside Fate, and so her actions dont show up to prophecy.
 
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DragonParadox said:
You had already gotten essence from the urge that scene from what I recall. That said if you find out any significant supernatural secrets you will get your answers this scene yeah.
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When? Our anima had already died down, so it was definitely a scene change, and I don't remember us triggering our Urge between our anima going out and using the Crown on Lydia's boots?
 
Alratan said:
Seriously, with complete control of the car, we could have it accelerate and then spin in such a way to broadside a steel reinforced pillar.

I think we're trying too hard here. Just kill her. Use her desire for luxury against her and turn her into sausage meat.
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That would be ideal, and it's what I'm hoping for in my plan, though I'm not expecting to be so lucky. A high speed crash with no brakes or airbags and malfunctioning seat belts can do so really awful damage to the Human body. She could easily avoid serious injury, depending on her constitution and particulars of the crash, or she could lose her head, literally. And anything in between.
 
Goldfish said:
That would be ideal, and it's what I'm hoping for in my plan, though I'm not expecting to be so lucky. A high speed crash with no brakes or airbags and malfunctioning seat belts can do so really awful damage to the Human body. She could easily avoid serious injury, depending on her constitution and particulars of the crash, or she could lose her head, literally. And anything in between.
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With complete control of the vehicle and the ability to choose what to crash into, the car-devil should be able to kill her very reliably.

And you'd want the seat belts to tighten, so her head and upper torso were in place to hit the pillar at 100+ mph
 
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I wonder how much control the cyber devils have over the mechanical aspects of their possessed tech.

Just playing with the safety features is neat, but forcibly rupturing a fuel line by playing with the pressure in it then sparking some wires to set the whole thing on fire would be fun.

As to what we tell Gard on this; we can just claim to have cursed the hell out of it via the thing we left in her car. Even then only if she presses. We don't actually owe her an answer, so we can just dance around what exactly we did. Frankly, a super tech-hex sent via thaumaturgy is more reasonable in the general DF context than what we actually did anyway even if it's still ridiculous. I expect she'd have an easier time believing that without proof than she would the truth.
Alratan said:
Seriously, with complete control of the car, we could have it accelerate and then spin in such a way to broadside a steel reinforced pillar.

I think we're trying too hard here. Just kill her.
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Yeah, even if she lives it'd still hurt a lot and burn her resources.

Not being able to track her would be a pain in that case, but we also know exactly where she left Matthews. We could break off Micheal to take Cindy to the church and guard her, then raid his location with Gard while Kat and her best stick are trying to wave off the paramedics.

Probably not going to get a better shot than that as shutting the ritual down.
uju32 said:
2)At the climactic battle of Dead Beat, Capriocorpus had no beat.
In Ghost Story, the Capriocorpus and Evil Bob controlled a whole passel of ghosts and wraiths without the need for one
Zombies are mindless automatons controlled by a beat. Spectres are a different matter.

If she has bound and embodied a spectre in a dead corpse or a golem, no beat necessary. And thats what I'm worried about.
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If binding specters to zombies was that easy Kemmler's heirs would just do that instead and remove the glaringly obvious weak point from their standard minion.
uju32 said:
3)She's not infallible, but she's competent.

Her being a seer is what Im realizing her plan seems to be pivoting on, and which we forgot about.
If we jack her car and attempt to kill her with it, like your vote suggests, we tell her that her Sight is not reliable in this situation.
Which is a core advantage gone.

Thats just a terrible idea.
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Is it really? If her sight really works like that then the raid we just pulled probably tipped her off already.

I'm also not convinced it's a core advantage if we don't actually press it. If we let her set the pace she doesn't need prophecy to arrange things in her favor, and the longer this goes the more of a handle she can get on it.

I still think your threat assessment is weird. If she's that good of a Batman-Moriarty hybrid then facing her in prepared ground while she's present is a bad plan. Hitting her while she's at her minimum possible readiness and we have lots of options and support to work with is a much better idea.

Flip her car off an overpass and have the cyber devil set it on fire. If she lives then she can shake off the mortals and try racing us back to the ritualist she needs to complete her plan.
 
We can also just give the car-devil a broad directive. If it sees a fuel tanker on the road, it can drive into that while making the cars engine explode. If it has space to accelerate it can spin into a reinforced wall at 100mph. The advantage is that the devil is sapient (and malicious). It can work out how best to kill its passengers.
 
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