- Location
- washington
really depends on whats a better suit for us I think? What helps us the most even if it costs some more.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
If you have both an inferior an a superior version of something you use the latter, technically you could do it the worse way but you will not.
Creation mortals. The assertion was that TMA are made for Exalts, which isn't true.
The fact that current mortals of the diminished world can't handle them doesn't change what they were intended and made for, and what level they would have to be to be considered TMA
Wizards being able to use awesome and mind bendingly complex feats, such as Merlin, doesn't make them Sorcerers and using Sorcery as those are specific things.
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- Location
- washington
well yeah for teaching others though theoretically.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
The thing is though there was always more Dragonblooded then enlightened Mortals.
Ah sorry, I deleted that post because it was getting towards spoilers. Apparently I did not do it fast enough.
We can talk more on this when molly has some clue about all of this IC.
FriedIce
The Authentic Fake
- Location
- Hyperreality
I mean accidentally giving the forces of evil a massive power spike because you wanted a way to punch things better sounds like peak Exalted gameplay…Angels are probably a no go, if they act the Fallen get to act. Do you want Denarians with Celestial Martial arts?
But yeah, angels are out. I guess that leaves the Faerie Queens, and Old Gods as our best options. But both of those are way beyond us currently. Wait… could we blackmail Lash into teaching us the tricks of the Fallen?
To be honest it's sounding increasingly like our best option is just to learn and iterate on the Qiao Styles we already have access to. It shouldn't be too much work to turn them into a workable TMA once we've learned them.
[X] Tell Charity that you are learning the Qiao and explain what they are
-[X] Point out that you are learning how to be harder to hurt
- Location
- Germany
I still disagree here.
Terrestial Styles are, as far as I can see, mostly made for Terrestrial Exalted.
Most of those do not want to spend years in an Immaculate Monastery, learning several prerequisite Charms to even start learning the Celestial Arts.
Things like the Five-Dragons and Terrestial Hero Styles are explicitly said to be popular among the Dynasts.
Yes, mortals can learn the Terrestial Styles, but only by going beyond themselves and being the most exeptional of mortals.
Saying the Terrestial Styles are for mortals, is like saying the Sidereal Martial Arts are for Solars, just because they could learn those when they go beyond the "usual" skill for their kind and have a true master teaching them.
Each set of martial arts is ideal for the kind of Exalted they are named after and who can naturally master tham, not for the rank below those, who can eventually learn them under very special circumstances.
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Yes, but how does this relate to it? There were more Dragonblooded but they mostly used Elemental Styles, or just Melee/Archery Charms.
Mortals, even Enlightened ones, are the ones with no native charmsets who had to rely on these 100%.
Edit: At this point I'm just going to disagree.
Look at White Veil, Even Blade, Ill Lily, Ascent Driven Beast, Pentacle, First Pulse etc.
Mortal ones are vastly outnumbering.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Let me put it this way. Thorns, a massive city only had 20ish Dragonblooded. Only places like The Realm and Lookshy had more. That is how rare DBs are outside of the two places.
Enlightened Mortals are ever rarer.
So you are saying that individual mortals, who enlightened themselves, while being literally one in a million, built entire styles of Essence MA that the Dragonblooded did not.
Maybe one genius or two, or one that had a Solar friend may have developed a style, but the vast majority would have been made by a Group of people, who can actually use essence with certainty, a group that had Martial Arts Masters who are supporting them from the shadows.
I understand what the Devs tried to do with MA, but keep in mind this DISTINCTION.
Mortals CAN learn TMA. Then CAN learn CMA.
Just NOT the Charms. They can learn the fighting styles but not the supernatural effects. Not without awakening Essence pools.
Enlightened Mortals are ever rarer.
So you are saying that individual mortals, who enlightened themselves, while being literally one in a million, built entire styles of Essence MA that the Dragonblooded did not.
Maybe one genius or two, or one that had a Solar friend may have developed a style, but the vast majority would have been made by a Group of people, who can actually use essence with certainty, a group that had Martial Arts Masters who are supporting them from the shadows.
I understand what the Devs tried to do with MA, but keep in mind this DISTINCTION.
Mortals CAN learn TMA. Then CAN learn CMA.
Just NOT the Charms. They can learn the fighting styles but not the supernatural effects. Not without awakening Essence pools.
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Damn. Reading through that I was hoping that the DF great dragons were either remnants, inheritors, or at least lived in the same zip code, as the elemental dragons.
Not so much for ease of use as the idea of Ferrovax chilling in his den when a brick radiating infernal power flies through his window with a note reading 'here essence, gib punch power' wrapped around it.
I'm not saying they are not remnants or inheritors, I am just saying they are not the big five elemental dragons.
- Location
- washington
offhand did exalted have other semi-divine possible continent shaping dragons than the elemental ones? Cause thats what jim says his big D dragons are.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Yeah, the Dragon Kaiju that the elements turn into. "Release the Kukla" is the equivalent of "Release Godzilla" for a reason.
The Kukla is an elemental dragon of earth, tasked to destroy the world at the appointed time.
- Location
- washington
isn't that even bigger than the five elementals though and thus not really my question and obviously doesn't apply to the dresden dragons?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Let me Explain.
At the dawn of Creation there was the 5 Elemental Dragons, who as per 3E are the children of Gaia. They are separate.
There was an Elemental Shaped as a Dragon, the First Elemental, that was deliberately broken at the dawn of Creation, to ignite the elements and seed the elements in the Primordial Creation.
That is the origins of Elementals and why, once they reach high essence, take the form of Dragons. If they become high essence enough, become a Kukla.
So, yeah, the Dragons of DF, who are said to be "Former Pillars of the World" can and do fall into that category.
-Okay. So he's got the local guidance of a Venator. Safe enough.
-Didnt even consider the potential of using this on other people. Hmm
-Ah, Usum. Flattery on a dime. Never change.
-Snotty teenagers. I wonder how many teens the good monk has trained, and how familiar he is with all the signs of touch adolescents being adolescents.
-I remember someone complaining about not seeing mechanical effects of Mentor 5?
Well here's one. Respected senior monks do not drop everything on a dime, call in favors and relocate continents to teach baby Infernals supernatural martial arts, a secret of their order, for free.
Just thinking of the mundane costs makes me wince.
These Shih deal with spirits, so I dont think they would have attacked us off the bat. But someone with the <mobile Darkhallow> aura Molly puts out would be treated with wariness at best. It is Michael vouching for us that turns us from potential threat to surveill, contain and bargain with to ally to cultivate.
I suppose that an alternate Molly would probably have had to find her way to Yomi Wan to recruit the ghost of a Shih to unlock Shih MAs. Or had to do something to prove herself.
-From Brother Divshimar's perspective though what does he, or his order, get out of this?
Well, other than firsthand knowledge of a bearer of an Infernal Exaltation, the cold logic of it is that a little investment further develops relations with, and the capabilities of a resource that his brother monks and their allies might be able to call on in need.
When your enemies list apparently includes Kemmlerites, you can never have too many allies.
If they're really fortunate, Molly might even reverse-engineer a TMA and pass it back along the chain.
6 sux. Damn.
VOTE
[X] Tell Charity that you are learning the Qiao and explain what they are
-[X] Point out that you are learning how to be harder to hurt
This should be an easy sell. Especially after we just demonstrated our ability to heal when dunked in a bath tub of Clorox.
And it presumably fits somewhat easier into her existing paradigm than magic; the woman fights with a warhammer, spars with Michael and crafts armor. And her history with Kravos' Nightmare when pregnant with Harry Jnr should incline her towards a defense against evil spirits.
Also, from her PoV, time Molly spends in a dojo during summer vacation learning martial arts is time she is not on the streets potentially running into trouble.
Legends have him be half supernatural, so possibly.
- Location
- Germany
@DragonParadox
Does our new mentor here have Nightmare Exorcism from the Qiao of the Meng?
He could heal Rose with that.
Does our new mentor here have Nightmare Exorcism from the Qiao of the Meng?
He could heal Rose with that.
No, he only goes up to two dots in that, he also has other Bridges, but he isn't going to teach you the Bridge of the Dragon Ruler anytime soon.
- Location
- Germany
Why not actually?
We are pretty well-suited to that.
To excert command without going to the extremes of Crowned with Fury might be helpful.
You can ask him to teach you the mind control magic IC if you like, you did see him use it so you know he has it.