Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Yes, this is called bias, being a scientist with a sufficient understanding of physics. I'm talking about Yoga, if anything.
The bias here is that he knows magic is real in the setting already.

You don't understand what the word theory means in context, sorry. You are conflating it with a hypothesis. Also, no, it's not a scientific theory, it's a scientific law.
Oops, I definitely did.

Anyway this is what I was implying and referring to when I said that-
As with other kinds of scientific knowledge, scientific laws do not express absolute certainty, as mathematical laws do. A scientific law may be contradicted, restricted, or extended by future observations.
You aren't supposed to take it as undeniable fact in such that if things are observed that go against commonly acknowledged Laws that people should just conclude it's magic.
 
The bias here is that he knows magic is real in the setting already.
Other explanations included the War in Heaven, Xeelee,The simulation hypothesis or other phenomena that are not magic. The Masquerade does not have to fall in the sense that humanity has found reality. It can fall in the sense that the illusion of the ordinary world will fall apart and it will start from there.
 
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You aren't supposed to take it as undeniable fact in such that if things are observed that go against commonly acknowledged Laws that people should just conclude it's magic.
There are two things here:
1) All scientific laws are models. They are descriptions of how things work, within certain ranges of application. That's why special or general relativities don't contradict Newtonian mechanics. Newtonian mechanics are a specific case of those. If a scientific law doesn't describe the observed effect, then either you are measuring it wrong, or the situation lies outside of its range of application. Meaning, there's something new playing a role - might as well call it magic until another name is given. So, yes, by definition the observed phenomenon would result in conclusion "it's magic" where "magic" is a placeholder word.

2) All laws of physics are incredibly interconnected. For example, conservation of energy is a direct conclusion of how laws of physics don't change over time. If Newtonian mechanics don't work, basically nothing else works. At all.
The Masquerade does not have to fall in the sense that humanity has found reality. It can fall in the sense that the illusion of the ordinary world will fall apart and it will start from there.
Exactly this. Obviously this event doesn't translate into people immediately concluding that fae and angels are real. But it's not something I can see being brushed off. It's too big of an event that cannot be explained by the current understanding of the universe humanity has. Not convincingly at least, i think. If anyone ever tries to point a moment Sixth Age began, that would probably be it.
 
"Uhm... Tiff, was there a total solar eclipse schedualed for any time in march?" Please let us not have lost time.

"No..." a pause as she looks up. "I don't think that's the moon."

The shadow passes quickly, less than a minute after Aakebushu had risen from the earth, leaving him standing, still as stone on the sand, head tilted upwards, but as you have Clippy querry the satelites you find Egypt wasn't the only place visited by strange celestial phenomenon: auroras had swirled as far south as the tropics, unfamiliar constelations had shone over major cties, their stars so bright as to outshine the light glare, the moon had been seen waxing and waning in moments, phantoms of an age long dead or perhaps portents of one yet to come.
Oh boy. I think we might have worried some people.

Was this the exalted being chosen or LoV stepping out under the sun though?


Part of you wonders why it didn't do that when you found your Crown or it found you, mostly you are just thinking how to explain all of this
Didn't Molly's exaltation steal control of Arctis Tor for an instant that was three days long? I have a feeling that if she'd exalted in the material world it would have left some alarming signs.
Did we get any essence back for getting LoV to take FSB? Technically he can't disobey us without losing it, which makes this the recruitment of a dark spirit.
 
So, uhh... That's Masquerade gone, right? We should order our legions to march forth, I guess.

Because I can't see how this can be swept up.

Are you familiar with the fact that Clark Kent is Superman? Why?

Unexpected solar eclipses don't happen. Period. That's settled science, the very foundation of how the world works. In order for the moon phase to suddenly change, or for there to be a solar eclipse, you basically have to throw out newtonian mechanics, and introduce supernatural entities. That's "yeah guys, Flat Earth is actually real, and we were just screwing with you" level of mindbend to me. That's "we live in the Matrix" or "Xeelee are visiting" or, yeah "magic is real" stuff. Like, ok, maybe I can buy unknown constellations and auroras, if we are witnessing "once in a universe's lifetime" cosmological event - probably a series of simultaneous supernova explosions, and even then "War in Heaven, and Necrons just blew this constellation" would be a plausible explanation. But not "different phases of the moon" or "unexpected solar eclipse".

Dresden Files humanity is obviously not real humanity, and is either under some magical compulsion, or has evolved the aversion to magical explanations, but I think pretty much all science-related community now knows that magic is real. Even if the Masquerade hasn't fallen, it's much thinner now.

Cameras in mobile phones do not become standard until 2010 so @DragonParadox just set himself up for a little history dive into where exactly ubiquitous mobile phones are present in 2007.

Just to be clear people that care about details like what you described will be convinced to dig into this over the next year, but people who are willing to say hey wait that's weird what was that or even just be convinced that this was a glitch that reveals a lot of information about the world are a minority.

A larger minority than the current magical world, but still a very small minority compared to the rest of humanity. The Masquerade didn't fall, the Magical community is about to expand.
 
So, yes, by definition the observed phenomenon would result in conclusion "it's magic" where "magic" is a placeholder word.
*Eye roll* That isn't what I meant. Conclude magic is real then rather than it being something that can theoretically be explained with a greater understanding of science since that needed to be clarified I guess.

All laws of physics are incredibly interconnected. For example, conservation of energy is a direct conclusion of how laws of physics don't change over time. If Newtonian mechanics don't work, basically nothing else works. At all.
It does still work though.

Other explanations included the War in Heaven, Xeelee,The simulation hypothesis or other phenomena that are not magic. The Masquerade does not have to fall in the sense that humanity has found reality. It can fall in the sense that the illusion of the ordinary world will fall apart and it will start from there.
Nah. Not if nothing else like this happens.
 
So, anyway, votewise:

White Court, and Fae Courts need to know everything.

White Court and St. Giles need to be warned about abyssals because abyssals could well arise from a) white court initiation, and b) half-red going all red.

Other than that, not sure.
 
Anyway, plan. Preliminary

[X] Plan Coordinated Reposnse
-[X] Gather intelligence
--[X] Use the recordings of the worldwide phenomena as a focus to ask "where the the events these phenomena herald are happening?", 1 mote cost
-[X] Contact closest allies
--[X] Tiffany calls Dresden, explains the situation, tells him to call White Council, asks him to prepare scrying ritual that'll use Molly as a focus
--[X] Lydia calls her retainers, to prepare a searching party. Her dogs might be able to locate a trail in NeverNever or something like this, and the Arthurian knights will provide muscle (if they don't have any tracking charms)
--[X] Molly calls Michael and, if she can, Sanya, to see if they have been given a mission, or if the swords have anything to say.
---[X] Has her agents arrange for fast speed global transportation for both. Private jets, taxis, visas, backup. If they were called, tells them she'll likely be joining them, if not, asks them to be on standby if possible
--[X] Molly sets her cyber forces to combing through the internet for signs of abyssals
-[X] Call for a general "we are on the side of Creation" meeting
--[X] Call on Mab, as the primary Accords authority and enforcer, to inform her of what is happening
 
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Just to be clear - what are we explaining? LoV ("please put a hold on fighting Black Court, we are in the process of rolling out an update to fix the universal hostility issue") or Abyssals?
Putting it like that brings the image of having the cyber devils maintain a website with Molly's patch notes for reality. "FCF expansion now live and retroactively was always part of the game. South America shares a land border with (a) Hell. Blampire hostility tweaked".

The site with the fewest posts and highest number of continuous watchers on the internet. :V
2) All laws of physics are incredibly interconnected. For example, conservation of energy is a direct conclusion of how laws of physics don't change over time. If Newtonian mechanics don't work, basically nothing else works. At all
Tangential to the current situation, but funnily enough DF magic explicitly does change rules over time. I don't think Butcher intentionally linked that to how magic doesn't precisely care about the conservation of energy, so it's entertaining that he actually set both of those changes up by coincidence.
It does still work though.
What I'm interested in here is what the orbital weather, spy, and space observation satellites saw. That will make a huge difference in how people react.

Since this was a magical phenomenon it's entirely possible that everyone everywhere got the same perspective on the eclipse instead of seeing something like a normal eclipse or an atmospheric event that just looks like one. Which would imply to someone who believes their cameras are taking unmanipulated pictures of the sun that either :

1) Something other than the moon blocked the sun's light and it was large enough that nothing on or above earth could see around it.

Or

2) Something happened to the sun that made it look like an eclipse.
So, anyway, votewise:

White Court, and Fae Courts need to know everything.

White Court and St. Giles need to be warned about abyssals because abyssals could well arise from a) white court initiation, and b) half-red going all red.

Other than that, not sure.
I don't think everything should be on the table for some entities, just enough not to freak out.

The white council would be a good partner on this provided they've stopped huffing glue, but I don't think Winter needs an advantage.

Also, we should probably tell the dragon bloods so they don't flip out and wake their dragon ancestor.

Edit: dropped words
 
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@DragonParadox Errors.

Sorry sir, there are vampires in the hall and they have some kind of glamor on them,
You run though the names on your list
wrought in the elegant shape of temple dogs built to titanic scale are alive and crawling at you
That was definitely supposed to be growling.

though her gaze does linger for a moment on Thunder's Silent Arrow for a moment as she does so.
It does not show itself openly, only to the Sight and it dreadful beyond what the eyes of the children can bear.
Need an "is" in between here.

Carlos whispers from beside yo,
past tense because they had tried to summon something powerful and in succeeding too well become the sacrifice to their own final spell.
Became.

No wizard knows until the last how long their will might last in the face of death.
"Until the last" what? Breath?

How likely is that."

"Before today I would have said impossible," Ancient May says.
And, question mark.

When the False Dragon had tried to open tear the city asunder by the power of his broken stewardship
Openly.

spellfire carved a path though another mound or rubble to reveal...
Nothing was never easy.
the gate was large enough for a person to step though




Investigation on the Clock
"This entire...."you hunt for a word, before settling on "affair was not.
Need a space after the quotation mark before you.

"You speak sense Ms Carpenter, but if that one isindeed tangled in this ball of serpents why was he of so little use to them?"
Need a period on "Ms".

On the other you can't help but thinking that no monster is more dangerous than one with a good sense of timing.




Sorcerer's Snare
The pair Lydia managed to 'save' for a value of the word so miserly as to be almost an insult could not be more mismatched.
Can't tell if this is an error or not.

Do any of you know where Wizard LaFortier and the Merlin are.
Question mark.

but Lucio, she was sent to kill the Merlin once Samuel has gotten him out of out hair.
I've noticed that it seems to want to autocorrect to "Lucio" though her name is Luccio.

"Has" should be had because of the tense used.


The wardens, the young one's, it really is quite day, but they wouldn't listen.
Quite a day?

What on Earth had gone on between the two of them.
Question mark.

Morgan dons the interrogator's manner the same way he draws his sword, with direct and without flourish, without wasted effort.
Extra word.

Like the Starborn, the thought flashes through your mind in and instant.
Transgression and freedom on the one hand, salvation on t he other,
Morgan asks the woman, Rebeca Mortimer, drawing from the list of Crown-spied traitors.
It's a name of course but I've never seen it spelled with one c.

Where did the son of a bitch send Lucio to?
That autocorrupt no doubt.

it doesn't matter now, Sacrifices had to be made, but we convinced him things were under control here and he had to go to Paris.
Looks like this was meant to be a period instead of a comma or sacrifice needs to be lowercase.




The Trouble With Diplomats
miss Carpenter I cannot
Also maybe a comma after "Carpenter"?

Magic is an unpredictable force force Majesty




Hunting the Damned
From the looks in Tiffany's eyes

Missing a period.

unenhanced senses senses until far from ancient the woman
Perhaps it's to the best that this place doesn't have much in the way of distractions since she's looking for something, something small.
For the best?

The answer as it turns out is silvery mirror
An "a" between here would sound less awkward though I don't think this is incorrect technically.


Halls and and lead you right to them."
at least any with ears off flesh
"What could be possibly want to..."
is a very potent artifact, though one that that moves in its time and not ours
Your senses scream as jets of super-headed water
Heated.



Tearing Tainted Threads
aerosolized water settling on you arm as you drive your sword hilt
before you shield check them into into the other driving both of them into the wall
Carlos looks sick and even the more experienced wardens seems shaken
 
I don't think everything should be on the table for some entities, just enough not to freak out.

The white council would be a good partner on this provided they've stopped huffing glue, but I don't think Winter needs an advantage.

Also, we should probably tell the dragon bloods so they don't flip out and wake their dragon ancestor.
Winter Court needs to be warned to avoid a plausible scenario where a newly exalted abyssal goes after them with spirit killing charms and costs Creation a valuable mantle. Remember, the condition for becoming an abyssal is being excellent enough to warrant a solar exaltation, being supernaturally aware, and being in the process of dying. Naturally, the last two things can be combined into one - ie dying from supernatural causes. What are the likely causes of supernatural death?
1) White Court initiation or feeding - that one is always fatal, normally, and, for example, the death we prevented when encountering Isabela would probably work as an abyssal exaltation event
2) Red Court - either by being fed on, or, more worryingly for us, when a half-red goes all red, and the mortal dies. That might count, and this is why St. Giles society needs warning. Either an agent of theirs, or someone on the side of Reds might be getting one.
3) Jade Court - basically as White Court, I think
4) Winter killing someone. Arawn's replacement is going after necromancers right now. Minor winter fae attack people globally. Etc. Like, narratively, Sandra might not be dead yet, and if Maeve is in the process of slowly killing her, that might count. And Maeve is not that great of a fighter - a fresh abyssal might be a danger to her.

Basically, while I don't much want Mab to have a deathknight of her own (with a Winter Knight Mantle on top of that), I don't want to see what happens to the world when we start losing mantles.

Putting it like that brings the image of having the cyber devils maintain a website with Molly's patch notes for reality. "FCF expansion now live and retroactively was always part of the game. South America shares a land border with (a) Hell. Blampire hostility tweaked".

The site with the fewest posts and highest number of continuous watchers on the internet. :V
Yeah, that's a fun thought.
 
@DragonParadox Errors.

That was definitely supposed to be growling.



Need an "is" in between here.



Became.


"Until the last" what? Breath?


And, question mark.


Openly.








Investigation on the Clock

Need a space after the quotation mark before you.


Need a period on "Ms".






Sorcerer's Snare

Can't tell if this is an error or not.


Question mark.


I've noticed that it seems to want to autocorrect to "Lucio" though her name is Luccio.

"Has" should be had because of the tense used.



Quite a day?


Question mark.


Extra word.




It's a name of course but I've never seen it spelled with one c.


That autocorrupt no doubt.


Looks like this was meant to be a period instead of a comma or sacrifice needs to be lowercase.




The Trouble With Diplomats

Also maybe a comma after "Carpenter"?






Hunting the Damned



Missing a period.



For the best?


An "a" between here would sound less awkward though I don't think this is incorrect technically.








Heated.



Tearing Tainted Threads

Thanks, will handle in a bit. I'm a little busy right now.
 
Okay sure I do have to imminently say that's not what hijacking means but okay. As they didn't take control of any of the functions of exaltation and the patch they had worked off an existing feature that was completely random in how it affected every exalt so it's hard to say it was hijacking because they had no control over it but okay
When you hijack an airplane it keeps flying, it just doesn't go where it was supposed to. The limit track was twisted against its purpose to cause the exalted harm. It's close enough for people who aren't splitting hairs.

Yes a barrier set up by ghosts in the Underworld the place where they should have the most power to act at all and they can't even get the spirits of the Dead that only exists because they drink of their Essence to surrender you get that, right. The place where the Neverborn to have the most power can not push hard enough to act against beings again acting against them.

Literally on the mouth of Oblivion right next to the abyss they build a Fortress damn near on top of the Neverborn and they can't stop them from building that Fortress it doesn't scream we are fully capable of acting by ourselves for what I feel are pretty obvious reasons as fortresses don't just materialize overnight not even in the Underworld
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. My argument on this area was that they had power and were trying to act. They were making plans and successfully executing them. You're moving the goalposts.


That is true. Though the Neverborn in the Manual assign the Abyssal Exalted to their last best hope of achieving their goals so freeing them at all is in it's interest no strange alterations necessary.
So you're suggesting that the guys who successfully plotted the murder of the age of legends think the Abyssals unmodified can and would kill reality for them? Or perhaps that the Neverborn wouldn't try the same trick for a third time even though it's worked amazingly well if they didn't think the current revision was good enough?
I can say it's true because without the holder Montrances those were just free exaltations. Even when exalted an abyssal exaltation still exists within those artifacts that's what made them kill switches the fact that we saw free flying exaltations means they were free flying exaltations.

The only bounds in manuals of exalted power that the neverborn had or could impose on the Abyssal exalted were resonance every other chain was made by the death Lords and their immense power, personal and otherwise
You can't say that it doesn't have that thing still, or that it couldn't just make another. They were the ones who got the lore for it from the Yozi per your own cite. They taught the deathlords and not the other way around.


They are not the kind of being that can make the chain stick the death Lords are the one who made the chains that's why I have them italicized there. Because the Bindings that are kill switches for the death Knights belong to the death Lords. Without the deathlords there's literally no ghost powerful enough to hamper an Abyssal. Without the death Lords there's no one who is strong enough to have a presence in the Living World either.
The Neverborn did this on purpose. The death lords were their control mechanism because they didn't want to let that power go free.

Why then are you assuming that the things which planned all of this would not act from the same motives and using the same knowledge they did before?

The Neverborn are mega dead in ExWoD so that it doesn't need to explain how they might adapt.
 
The Neverborn are mega dead in ExWoD so that it doesn't need to explain how they might adapt.

Actually not quite:

Those Oblivion-hollowed souls known as spectres
instinctively recognize Abyssals not merely as kindred
spirits, but as holy figures. The Hive-Mind is chaotic
and confused, but it's also very, very, very old, and its
most ancient and darkest roots connect to the dreams
of dead gods that were never human, not for so much
as even a minute or a single breath. Those dead gods,
the Neverborn, remember the Abyssal Exalted. They
are incapable of joy, but are nonetheless pleased by the
return of the greatest weapons they ever crafted.
-Exalted Versus World of Darkness Page 256

Holden didn't want the powers of Exalted involved... and then he left the Neverborn in.🤷‍♂️ :V
 
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So, uhh... That's Masquerade gone, right? We should order our legions to march forth, I guess.

Because I can't see how this can be swept up.
As happened in Nightbane, probably my favorite TTRPG setting, when the entire planet was temporarily engulfed in darkness during Dark Day, the event which heralded the Nightlords replacing much of Human government with doppelgangers and monsteous shapeshifters, the darkness was never adequately explained.

Some astronomers blamed terrorists releasing a light occluding gas into the atmosphere, or an unknown astronomical phenomenon, and some just committed suicide. IIRC, one retired and became a pig farmer. But life keeps going and people have to live their lives.

The point being, really weird shit can happen without it needing to be explained. That said, I'm cool with the Masquerade breaking.
 
Actually not quite:

Those Oblivion-hollowed souls known as spectres
instinctively recognize Abyssals not merely as kindred
spirits, but as holy figures. The Hive-Mind is chaotic
and confused, but it's also very, very, very old, and its
most ancient and darkest roots connect to the dreams
of dead gods that were never human, not for so much
as even a minute or a single breath. Those dead gods,
the Neverborn, remember the Abyssal Exalted. They
are incapable of joy, but are nonetheless pleased by the
return of the greatest weapons they ever crafted.
-Exalted Versus World of Darkness Page 256

Holden didn't want the powers of Exalted involved... and then he left the neverborn in
In the FAQ he covers this as a broad category of either dead or so changes they aren't truly the same beings anymore.

What happened to [insert Exalted character here]?
They're dead or transformed or fragmented so
completely that they may as well be dead. Autochthon,
the patron of the Liminals, and the Malfean Never-
born are the only things that might have "survived" all
the way from the Age of Legends to the present, and
even that is up to you to decide. Even then, the lat-
ter two might just be the nightmares of Grandmother,
dreaming of the dreadful things that once accumulat-
ed above her all-consuming maw in ages past.
ExWoD page 442.

My read was that in the base game they'd gone fully senile and decayed to the point where the echos of vague emotions are only thing left.
 
In the FAQ he covers this as a broad category of either dead or so changes they aren't truly the same beings anymore.

That is a very weak coop-out. The Neverborn cannot die while anything of Creation exists, that is essential to what they are, and the World of Darkness is Creation in EXvsWoD ergo they are part of the hive mind no matter how little of themselves they remember which is also the most reasonable way to make the automatic specter pose for Abyssals work.
 
Part of you wonders why it didn't do that when you found your Crown or it found you, mostly you are just thinking how to explain all of this.

Something something Venus something something?

But I am more partial to: Maybe it is time for things long hidden to come and be seen once again.

I think we need to warn the Wizards, Winter, and the Library in that order of importance. The first is our closest ally right now. The second maybe you don't need to warn them, they might start hunting, but that's part of their job. The third... It's important for the governments to know there's a new player out there.

I'd consider the library a closer ally than the wizards, and it's not just because of the fact that the library at least have shown themselves to be able to take a step without drowning in traitors.

Yes, technically we just took out said traitors, but it wasn't that much with the wizards help.
 
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Honestly, I'm starting to think that Yog is right, that the main targets of the warning are factions that can provoke the Abyssal Exaltation. There are risks that they will try to make anti-Abyssal protocols or Mab will decide to recruit them herself. But that's better than them listening to the voices of dead gods.
 
That is a very weak coop-out. The Neverborn cannot die while anything of Creation exists, that is essential to what they are, and the World of Darkness is Creation in EXvsWoD ergo they are part of the hive mind no matter how little of themselves they remember which is also the most reasonable way to make the automatic specter pose for Abyssals work.
The whole document is based on stuff like that. It's basically a thick layer of don't worry about it used to separate the plot of one age from the next.
 
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