Oh right, on that note I'm not sure how this is supposed to work. Usually there's a moratorium on turn votes along with a list of items and AP stuff so people remember everything that's on the table. What does suggestions mean exactly?
Oh right, on that note I'm not sure how this is supposed to work. Usually there's a moratorium on turn votes along with a list of items and AP stuff so people remember everything that's on the table. What does suggestions mean exactly?
For you guys to put in suggestions for what you want to be on the list, one vote is enough I just need to see them for the turn vote proper. Afterwards they will go on the list together with old actions and new ones I come up with.
On that note it's really late again, good night guys.
For you guys to put in suggestions for what you want to be on the list, one vote is enough I just need to see them for the turn vote proper. Afterwards they will go on the list together with old actions and new ones I come up with.
On that note it's really late again, good night guys.
So, would it surprise anybody to learn that I have a 12 page document prepared with a plan and the arguments for said plan? I'll lift custom options from it as suggestions
[X] Hunt down remaining True Magi (African group focus)
[X] Hunt Down Evil Bob
[X] Fortify the portal location
[X] Create a god of Chicago
[X] Visit Horror Convention with Rosie
[X] Making money, SGI actions
-[X] Move Big Score to SGI category, since it needs at most 1 minute of Molly's time, and everything else is best delegated to a clone
-[X] Big Screen: Work on turning your movie studio productive. Olivia is studying to be a professional performer, so she might be a good future star, or know aspiring talents you might want to recruit. And surely Sanctuary has both the stories to tell, and special effects far in advance of the best of Hollywood, which can be applied through the already established studio. 1 SGI AP
-[X] Entertainment from the courts: – cartoons, video games, card and board games are a worldwide phenomenon, present in all cultures, and far easier to transfer from Sanctuary to Earth due to the nature of both happening in imaginary worlds. You can use Harry and Alphas to test what works best for Earthly players. 1 SGI AP
-[X] Advanced materials: High temperature superconductors, advanced steels and alloys, nanotubes and more exotic materials still – your Courts understanding of material science is far superior to the best Earth has to offer. Time to start leveraging that advantage. Look into starting exports and/or production Earthside of materials that Earth doesn't have analogs of. Nothing too advanced at first, of course. 1 SGI AP
[X] Real Estate. SGI actions
-[X] Chicago Real Estate: With the real estate crash merely blunted and delayed, but not averted, and seed money coming in, it's time to start investigating what to buy. 1 SGI AP
-[X] Las Vegas Real Estate: Basing rights involve having actual base. 1 SGI AP
-[X] Earthside portal real estate: no matter how fictitious it is, having claim on the Earthside land around the portal, or at least preventing Red Court from having it prevents at least some troubles from arising
[X] Magic. SGI actions
-[X] Alchemical studies in Sanctuary, 1 SGI AP
-[X] Ancient Studies: Teach Harry, Lydia, and Tiffany, if she can learn, Awakened Eye of the Dragon Ancient Sorcery
-[X] From the pen of: start writing books "soulgazing made safe" book. 1 SGI AP
-[X] Study geomancy / feng shui with Olivia. 1 SGI AP
[X] Personal, SGI actions
-[X] Babysit for Rosie
Advanced materials: High temperature superconductors, advanced steels and alloys, nanotubes and more exotic materials still – your Courts understanding of material science is far superior to the best Earth has to offer. Time to start leveraging that advantage. Look into starting exports and/or production Earthside of materials that Earth doesn't have analogs of. Nothing too advanced at first, of course. 1 SGI AP
So, would it surprise anybody to learn that I have a 12 page document prepared with a plan and the arguments for said plan? I'll lift custom options from it as suggestions
Not at all by the way did you know Arcana and Gadgets (Trinkets, Apparati) are hilarious heavy time wise to construct from the planning phase do the construction phase the amount of successes and the interval between the roles means you're looking at 33.6 hours minimum per design roll and multiple days per actual crafting roll Trinkets and apparatuses or even longer both on planning and on Crafting despite the fact they are technology which should be way faster but they trade speed for successes.
Anyway I don't really have a full plan but I did some math but a lot of Google searching to see how long it takes to make anything or everything.
[X] Alchemy Recipe Research SGI & Infernal
-[X] High Kevlar ●
-[X] Greater Aspirin ●
-[X] Valerian Essence ●
-[X] Heavy Coagulant ●
-[X] Will Sharpening Unguent ●●
-[X] Tingles in a Can ●●
-[X] Mind Over Matter ●●●
-[X] Psychometry potion ●●●
-[X] Fortifying Ink ●●●
-[X] Transcendent Capacity Solution ●●●●
-[X] Gemstone Bone Ossification ●●●●
-[X] Ichorous Blood Dispersal ●●●●
[X] Sanctuary Martial Arts
-[X] Civilization, the House of Law
-[X] Savagery, the House of Courage
-[X] Howling, the House of Domination
-[X] Darkness, the House of Serenity
-[X] The Hidden Way, the House of the Forbidden what little is known
[X] Sanctuary Magical Arts
-[X] Mana Manipulation
-[X] Enchantment
-[X] Fortune
-[X] Warding
[X] Acquire Books of necessary info (Build or get Library rating)
-[X] Finance
-[X] Politics
-[X] Law (U.S, Sanctuary)
[X] Acquire Books of Crafting info (Build or get Library rating)
-[X] Technology
-[X] Computer
-[X] Science
I genuinely don't remember, sorry. I was sick as a dog this whole week, with 39+ temperature for a couple of days, while on a business trip, and may be missing some things.
We need the big score as seed money, but I am not content to just sit on them. If we plan to move on Red Court as an organization, to affect some global changes, we need large amount of organization scale money, not just large amount of personal scale money. Adding to that, material science is the best way I see to slowly and gently start lifting the masquerade. Remember - Nemesis is planning on bringing it down in a way that harms everyone. I firmly consider just trying to maintain it as a status quo a losing game within the timeline of the quest, much less within the next two or three in game decades. Which is why, instead of doing so, I am attempting to ease in masquerade breakdown in a way that is associated with good things. Holographic TVs with supreme quality shows from Fivefold courts, miracle cures, and custom-built robotic maids instead of redcaps stealing your kids, vampires drinking your blood, and monsters from beyond reality maling you roll for SAN loss at the mwre mention of their name, should be what general public should be focusing on. Benefits, in an approachable way. Tangible ones. And for those with power - trade, immortality, security.
To summarize - this is about setting up a stream of profit, doing politics, and slowly starting to prepare for controlled masquerade breakdown.
If we can, then yes, absolutely, sure, we should do this. This would save me a ton of trouble with probably the most controversial part of my plan. I very much need just one more AP. @DragonParadox are we doing this now?
Well, that makes sense. As long as the idea isn't to sell soul derived minerals to earth anyway. Don't really see why the Mega Millions can't be done in addition though for start up money for capital. Ignoring it just seems like a missed opportunity.
I'm vehemently against making politicians immortal though. I do not foresee a way for that not to break the thread down into arguments about which ones deserve it or not.
Well, that makes sense. As long as the idea isn't to sell soul derived minerals to earth anyway. Don't really see why the Mega Millions can't be done in addition though for start up money for capital. Ignoring it just seems like a missed opportunity
It is being done in the full plan, which is why I am arguing ot should also be an SGI action. I need seed money. So, lottery, then use that money for diverse businesses.
I'm vehemently against making politicians immortal though. I do not foresee a way for that not to break the thread down into arguments about which ones deserve it or not.
While we have the capability to sorta mass produce immortality with splendors, it's measured in tens of people per month, maybe hundreds. Personally, and I fully realize this is bias speaking, I would do academics, philanthropists, doctors first. Not politicians.
It is being done in the full plan, which is why I am arguing ot should also be an SGI action. I need seed money. So, lottery, then use that money for diverse businesses.
Am I to understand that "Big Score" is referring to the lottery?? I feel the need to say, if your plans concern the thread's several actions in the following months you should probably be saying 'we' need the seed money not 'I'.
While we have the capability to sorta mass produce immortality with splendors, it's measured in tens of people per month, maybe hundreds. Personally, and I fully realize this is bias speaking, I would do academics, philanthropists, doctors first. Not politicians.
First? Honestly, if at any point you want to start giving real life politicians immortality there is no way that's not going to cause WhiteHall style issues.
Am I to understand that "Big Score" is referring to the lottery?? I feel the need to say, if your plans concern the thread's several actions in the following months you should probably be saying 'we' need the seed money not 'I'.
That was several months ago and several actions have names, just saying. More importantly though not responding at all to the concern over WhiteHall bait is in itself concerning Yog.
That was several months ago and several actions have names, just saying. More importantly though not responding at all to the concern over WhiteHall bait is in itself concerning Yog.
I don't see what I can respond with? Ultimately my personal position is that withholding industrial scale eternal life when we can provide one is morally unacceptable, and the only question is how to handle the rollout, who to prioritize, etc. However, I recognise that this is a controversial position, and would rather focus on other ways to make life of mankind better.
For you guys to put in suggestions for what you want to be on the list, one vote is enough I just need to see them for the turn vote proper. Afterwards they will go on the list together with old actions and new ones I come up with.
For people who are voting just for Yog this is a vote to see what is going on the list of possible actions next turn. Just putting something down is considerably more important than whoever gets the most votes in fact as far as I can tell and what dragon Paradox intends getting the most votes doesn't particularly matter at all it just helps them formulate the list of possible actions.
If we can, then yes, absolutely, sure, we should do this. This would save me a ton of trouble with probably the most controversial part of my plan. I very much need just one more AP. @DragonParadox are we doing this now?
For people who are voting just for Yog this is a vote to see what is going on the list of possible actions next turn. Just putting something down is considerably more important than whoever gets the most votes in fact as far as I can tell and what dragon Paradox intends getting the most votes doesn't particularly matter at all it just helps them formulate the list of possible actions.
I can generate a number of ideas, if people are interested:
Look for imperial Seal of China (part of investigating Mandate if Heavens which we already have some clues about)
Look for thr lost library of Ivan the Terrible of Russia (collection of ancient lore stretching back to at least thr Library of Alexandria)
Work with Murphy on the subject of enhancing special investigations (IDU, guardian spirits, gadgets)
Investigate locationans of Malfean Brass (we have sample and a crown) within reach
Look for old artifacts using the one we have as a focus
Start the Labyrinth exploration expedition (we made a promise about that one)
That is the system that would enforce the limits in WoD, this is not WoD and the pressures are different, also the character of who becomes wizards is different, since this is a genetic lottery wizards unlike mages are far less likely to take risks, something you can't really see in the quest unfortunately since this is a story about PCs and the people who hang around PCs.
That's the problem though. WoD grants these abilities and sets their parameters on the supposition that there's a limiter that nearly always applies in some fashion.
Not just that you get a psychological issue most people would find troubling, but that you'll face material consequences that can kill you or worse for trying. Even PCs, especially PCs.
Punishing a serial killer with a desire for more murder isn't a punishment or a deterrent. It is not a balancing factor that matters. A limit that doesn't apply to anyone who effects the plot is not a real limit.
Wizards are already powerful enough, why remove the limits even white wolf thought they needed?
That's the problem though. WoD grants these abilities and sets their parameters on the supposition that there's a limiter that nearly always applies in some fashion.
Not just that you get a psychological issue most people would find troubling, but that you'll face material consequences that can kill you or worse for trying. Even PCs, especially PCs.
Punishing a serial killer with a desire for more murder isn't a punishment or a deterrent. It is not a balancing factor that matters. A limit that doesn't apply to anyone who effects the plot is not a real limit.
Wizards are already powerful enough, why remove the limits even white wolf thought they needed?
Because they have way more limits I'm just going to say this now this has been going on for a couple pages but Dresden File Wizards are not Mages and you've said that in a different couple different ways across these pages but you missed like the biggest one they don't grow in strength in a appreciable amount of time.
Dresden is a essentially a baby wizard and he is stronger than 90% of wizards and by the time he gets to McCoy's age he'll have gained in Arete what would taken a normal Mage the Ascension playthrough a year of play to get that is assuming he only tops out at the same eight rating that McCoy has. Now that may not mean much to you but Dante a 23-year-old Mage from Ascension is Arete 10 Oracle.
They need things like Ascension rituals or investments from Outer powers to be more powerful and I will admit I was distinctly surprised when Peabody's Investments actually made him a wizard on the same level as McCoy as Investments aren't supposed to really affect a Arete that they're supposed to give new non Paradox mystical abilities or knowledge.
Even then he was a direct servant of someone who was a vessel for outer powers. So it was just my familiarity with Mage the Ascension that made me think that investments couldn't increase the strength of Mages rather than the other way around.
You are making a distinct claim that Wizards are getting the same benefits as Mages when they're only using the same spheres. If they're actually using the same system then the vast majority of wizards aren't even capable of casting Sphere 3 and up effects. As they don't have the necessary Arete.
Any replication of ancient sorcery would require at minimum dresden's level of strength which the vast majority of wizard does not possess and also enlightened then they would need multiple spheres at 5 they would also need to know ancient sorcery which even if they have Essence there's no guarantee that their soul is compatible with ancient sorcery we know Dresden is because his soul is an ancient one not because he has essence.
I won't go over all of the crazy spells that we've seen Wizards cast in Dresden Files. You are drastically overstating the capabilities of any wizard that isn't essentially a main character of a book series or their old mentors and old monsters.
This is before the fact every single possible person if they even managed to put together a candidate within a mortal lifetime to learn how to make a splenders they have to go through Dresden be taught by him and by us even then it is only a maybe that they will be able to replicate one of our splendors.
Dresden Files Wizards when they're not main characters or old monsters or definitively less powerful than most starter character Mages. Their magic tradition is smothered of Life, mind, time spheres and individual Wizards have straight up limitations of what kind of spheres they can learn while their Talent is Broad and deep it isn't endlessly broad like a Mages is.
Dragon Paradox has had characters say this repeatedly in story and show it repeatedly in story Dresden despite being someone who would love to learn every type of magic just doesn't and it I imagine it's not because he's just incapable but rather the investment of time would not meet the level of return needed for him to justify even to himself despite his love of learning magic.
Anyone else still mildly upset with the red court? I personally have some minor concerns and would like to open a dialog about them.
[X] Gun Running: Coordinate giving Saint Giles some real backing in a mix of material transfers and operational support. For example:
-[X] High explosives and similar materials
-[X] Medical equipment
-[X] Export grade weapons of the types they already have samples of.
-[X] Permission to flee into our territory
-[X] Sutra cyber attack squads stealing everything they can get their hands on from the red court and funneling it their way.
[X] Mallko's Munchies: Build the Rich Earth's Hunger Splendor and give it to Mallko to make existing in his territory dangerous for vampires.
-[X] V1: soul devouring original flavor
-[X] V2: luck devouring politically palatable flavor
[X] American Demons: Coordinate with the Council and Saint Giles to set up a stealth drone strike campaign. Vampires under the open sky (or lowest bidder roofs) eat at least one missile. preferably R9X style.
I'm also unhappy with Thorned Namshiel, a gentle reminder not to poke mortals we like is definitely in order.
[X] Thassit I'm Telling God: Set up a spot in the Carpenter House where Molly can ask crown questions with maximum buffs, then steal the deepest secrets she can get on Thorned Namshiel and pray aloud about them in front of Amoraccius.
The process I'm hoping for here:
1) Set up question spot under angelic protection.
2) Pray for the wisdom to know what to seek when seeking to fight the forces of darkness. In our totally secular personal conflict. Pinky promise we aren't trying to ratfuck the Devil by guessing what Heaven wants to know and then "happening" to ask our questions where Angels can hear the answers.
That day Uriel has a chance to poke Molly if he wants to.
3) Ask questions like these while narrating our results:
— What does Thorned Namshiel most fear Uriel learning that he doesn't already know?
— What new information would would give Uriel the greatest possible advantage in his efforts relating to Thorned Namshiel?
— How might Thorned Namshiel be brought to Rising?
And so on. I don't want to spy on this guy, I want to obliterate his privacy from orbit.
I want to do the Angelic equivalent of emailing the highlights of his search history to his dad, reading his diary aloud to his older brother, and posting his therapist's to date session notes on Facebook.
If we do it right he should learn things he never had an inkling of about himself from the secrets we expose to his enemies.
Form of Steadfast Earth (1 pt. Form Element)
The Splendor takes the form of something that is solid and durable and sturdy. It might be made
of stone, metal, or mineral deposits. It might be a crystal or gemstone. It might be dirty and
roadworn. This Element defines the Splendor's physical form and gives it a character, and that
character is aligned with the elemental power of earth. Other Elements may draw upon this fact.
The Splendor is extremely rugged, and the first attempt to damage or destroy it in any scene
automatically fails. As an Adornment, it grants its user one extra die of soak. As the basis for a
Fascination, it may generate the creator's choice of: useful tools for a certain kind of work; an
aura of quiet and serenity; periodic foreboding tremors in the earth.
Soul Snare (3 pt. Root Element)
The Splendor captures souls. It may hold a number of souls equal to its rating. Captured soul of
potent supernatural beings may later be fashioned into Prodigies or used in Splendor-crafting.
Lesser souls might be bartered to beings interested in them, or used as display pieces.
To use Soul Snare as an Adornment, the Splendor must also have Form of Imminent Violence.
The soul of anyone slain by the Splendor is drawn into it.
As a Fascination, Soul Snare either indiscriminately absorbs the soul of anyone who dies in its
vicinity, or may be designed to exercise discretion and only capture certain departing souls. If
combined with the Form of Dust and Ash, anyone who dies while interacting with the Splendor
whose soul is not trapped by it is guaranteed to linger in the Underworld as a wraith. Coupled
with Form of Dust and Ash and a location-type Form such as Form of the Hearth, this fate
befalls anyone who dies in the Splendor's area of effect.
Deadly Poison (1 pt. Mystic Element)
The Splendor afflicts those it targets with a deadly poison. Poisoned individuals must make a
Stamina roll against difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) each turn or suffer a level of unsoakable
lethal damage. Once the target has succeeded at this roll three times in a row, the poison has run
its course.
This Element is normally part of a Fascination. It may only be incorporated into an Adornment if
that Adornment has the Form of Imminent Violence, in which case the weapon is envenomed
and delivers this Element upon inflicting lethal damage.
Mystic Fortification (1 pt. Mystic Element)
One of the Splendor's snares or benefits is particularly wicked or potent. Modify one roll
associated with the Splendor by increasing or decreasing its difficulty by two, or modify one
value associated with activating or resisting its effects (such as the number of points of
Willpower that must be spent to shake off a Beautiful Lie) by two.
Sovereign Elemental Sway (1 pt. Mystic Element)
The Splendor manipulates and reshapes that which resonates with its character, as defined by
Form Elements such as Form of Crackling Fire and Form of Ash and Dust. The benefits
provided depend on whether the Splendor is an Adornment or Fascination, and on which Form or
Forms it has incorporated.
Incorporated into an Adornment, this Element allows the Exalt to use Craft actions to sculpt
wind, water, and fire as though they were clay, creating impossible works of art or short-lived
elemental tools. Living wood can be induced to grow into patterns the Exalt desires in the same
fashion, while the difficulty to work with stone or metal is reduced by two. The difficulty to craft
dead flesh into Arcana may be reduced by two as well. The Exalt can raise or lower the Gauntlet
by one degree per success on a Crafts roll to modify it, and can rework the chimerical identity of
things.
Incorporated into a Fascination, this Element allows the Splendor to rewrite the details of
landscapes and objects, rerouting the paths of a graveyard, changing the appearance of a corpse,
repairing a rundown wooden shack, or making a barren landscape green and verdant.
This curious blessing takes the form of a coating of rich soil dusted across its master and their immediate possessions, as if they'd been working in some fertile field for hours. This sacred soil provides some basic ability to shape that which resonates with it, allowing its master to change the details of their immediate surroundings.
When a creature that feeds on mortals comes in contact with them or the dirt falling off their body it burrows in like the roots of an alien plant, spreading inside their body and rotting away what it touches into more soil.
If this kills the target then they fully decompose into rich fertilizer and their soul is drawn away to the earth that took them.
System:
Each time a creature who feeds mortals that comes into contact with the owner of this splendor or the dirt coating their form while in their immediate presence they are subject to the Hunger of the Earth, a murderous magical poison.
Each turn they must make a stamina roll against difficulty 9 or suffer a level of unsoakable lethal damage. This will continue until they die or manage to succeed three turns in a row. If they die while subject to this effect their souls will be drawn into the splendor.
To avoid this fate they must either flee the presence of the splendor's master, surrender to them, or endure the damage.
Form of Steadfast Earth (1 pt. Form Element)
The Splendor takes the form of something that is solid and durable and sturdy. It might be made
of stone, metal, or mineral deposits. It might be a crystal or gemstone. It might be dirty and
roadworn. This Element defines the Splendor's physical form and gives it a character, and that
character is aligned with the elemental power of earth. Other Elements may draw upon this fact.
The Splendor is extremely rugged, and the first attempt to damage or destroy it in any scene
automatically fails. As an Adornment, it grants its user one extra die of soak. As the basis for a
Fascination, it may generate the creator's choice of: useful tools for a certain kind of work; an
aura of quiet and serenity; periodic foreboding tremors in the earth.
Ruinous Misery (3 pt. Root Element)
This Element can only be part of a Fascination.
The Splendor destroys its targets' finances and fortunes. Roll Manipulation + Finance against
difficulty (10 – Splendor's rating) when this curse strikes at a valid individual. They lose a
number of dots of Resources equal to the successes rolled. The lost dots return at a rate of one
per story as their cash-flow equalizes, assuming their life hasn't collapsed in the meantime.
Deadly Poison (1 pt. Mystic Element)
The Splendor afflicts those it targets with a deadly poison. Poisoned individuals must make a
Stamina roll against difficulty (4 + Splendor's rating) each turn or suffer a level of unsoakable
lethal damage. Once the target has succeeded at this roll three times in a row, the poison has run
its course.
This Element is normally part of a Fascination. It may only be incorporated into an Adornment if
that Adornment has the Form of Imminent Violence, in which case the weapon is envenomed
and delivers this Element upon inflicting lethal damage.
Mystic Fortification (1 pt. Mystic Element)
One of the Splendor's snares or benefits is particularly wicked or potent. Modify one roll
associated with the Splendor by increasing or decreasing its difficulty by two, or modify one
value associated with activating or resisting its effects (such as the number of points of
Willpower that must be spent to shake off a Beautiful Lie) by two.
Sovereign Elemental Sway (1 pt. Mystic Element)
The Splendor manipulates and reshapes that which resonates with its character, as defined by
Form Elements such as Form of Crackling Fire and Form of Ash and Dust. The benefits
provided depend on whether the Splendor is an Adornment or Fascination, and on which Form or
Forms it has incorporated.
Incorporated into an Adornment, this Element allows the Exalt to use Craft actions to sculpt
wind, water, and fire as though they were clay, creating impossible works of art or short-lived
elemental tools. Living wood can be induced to grow into patterns the Exalt desires in the same
fashion, while the difficulty to work with stone or metal is reduced by two. The difficulty to craft
dead flesh into Arcana may be reduced by two as well. The Exalt can raise or lower the Gauntlet
by one degree per success on a Crafts roll to modify it, and can rework the chimerical identity of
things.
Incorporated into a Fascination, this Element allows the Splendor to rewrite the details of
landscapes and objects, rerouting the paths of a graveyard, changing the appearance of a corpse,
repairing a rundown wooden shack, or making a barren landscape green and verdant.
This curious blessing takes the form of a coating of rich soil dusted across its master and their immediate possessions, as if they'd been working in some fertile field for hours. This sacred soil provides some basic ability to shape that which resonates with it, allowing its master to change the details of their immediate surroundings.
When a creature that feeds on mortals comes in contact with them or the dirt falling off their body it burrows in like the roots of an alien plant, spreading inside their body and rotting away what it touches into more soil.
If this kills the target then they fully decompose into rich fertilizer and crumbles across the ground.
As they suffer from the rebuke of the earth, they also find its riches slipping from their hands. Fate will conspire to drive them into poverty for a time, a lingering act of spite for any who live long enough to regret going where they do not belong.
System:
Each time a creature who feeds mortals that comes into contact with the owner of this splendor or the dirt coating their form while in their immediate presence they are subject to the Hunger of the Earth, a murderous magical poison.
Each turn they must make a stamina roll against difficulty 9 or suffer a level of unsoakable lethal damage. This will continue until they die or manage to succeed three turns in a row.
The first turn a target takes damage from this splendor, the owner also rolls manipulation+finance against difficulty 7. The target loses that many dots of the Resources background, which return at a rate of 1 per story.
That's the problem though. WoD grants these abilities and sets their parameters on the supposition that there's a limiter that nearly always applies in some fashion.
Not just that you get a psychological issue most people would find troubling, but that you'll face material consequences that can kill you or worse for trying. Even PCs, especially PCs.
Punishing a serial killer with a desire for more murder isn't a punishment or a deterrent. It is not a balancing factor that matters. A limit that doesn't apply to anyone who effects the plot is not a real limit.
Wizards are already powerful enough, why remove the limits even white wolf thought they needed?
It is when the desire for murder gets all consuming, they make a mistake and die. The White Council isn't interested in the effects of Lawbreaking much past the basics, but the fact is it keeps getting worse. People like Drusus have to work to sublimate their many obsessions to a higher purpose and even so it destroys them, just slower.
Because they have way more limits I'm just going to say this now this has been going on for a couple pages but Dresden File Wizards are not Mages and you've said that in a different couple different ways across these pages but you missed like the biggest one they don't grow in strength in a appreciable amount of time.
Dresden is a essentially a baby wizard and he is stronger than 90% of wizards and by the time he gets to McCoy's age he'll have gained in Arete what would taken a normal Mage the Ascension playthrough a year of play to get that is assuming he only tops out at the same eight rating that McCoy has. Now that may not mean much to you but Dante a 23-year-old Mage from Ascension is Arete 10 Oracle.
They need things like Ascension rituals or investments from Outer powers to be more powerful and I will admit I was distinctly surprised when Peabody's Investments actually made him a wizard on the same level as McCoy as Investments aren't supposed to really affect a Arete that they're supposed to give new non Paradox mystical abilities or knowledge.
Even then he was a direct servant of someone who was a vessel for outer powers. So it was just my familiarity with Mage the Ascension that made me think that investments couldn't increase the strength of Mages rather than the other way around.
You are making a distinct claim that Wizards are getting the same benefits as Mages when they're only using the same spheres. If they're actually using the same system then the vast majority of wizards aren't even capable of casting Sphere 3 and up effects. As they don't have the necessary Arete.
Any replication of ancient sorcery would require at minimum dresden's level of strength which the vast majority of wizard does not possess and also enlightened then they would need multiple spheres at 5 they would also need to know ancient sorcery which even if they have Essence there's no guarantee that their soul is compatible with ancient sorcery we know Dresden is because his soul is an ancient one not because he has essence.
I won't go over all of the crazy spells that we've seen Wizards cast in Dresden Files. You are drastically overstating the capabilities of any wizard that isn't essentially a main character of a book series or their old mentors and old monsters.
This is before the fact every single possible person if they even managed to put together a candidate within a mortal lifetime to learn how to make a splenders they have to go through Dresden be taught by him and by us even then it is only a maybe that they will be able to replicate one of our splendors.
Dresden Files Wizards when they're not main characters or old monsters or definitively less powerful than most starter character Mages. Their magic tradition is smothered of Life, mind, time spheres and individual Wizards have straight up limitations of what kind of spheres they can learn while their Talent is Broad and deep it isn't endlessly broad like a Mages is.
Dragon Paradox has had characters say this repeatedly in story and show it repeatedly in story Dresden despite being someone who would love to learn every type of magic just doesn't and it I imagine it's not because he's just incapable but rather the investment of time would not meet the level of return needed for him to justify even to himself despite his love of learning magic.
Wizards do grow in strength as they train. They have different starting positions and focuses, but magic is a spiritual muscle.
The point here is that they're being allowed a depth of effect that's characteristic of mages but which they are limited on a very immediate and practical level from accessing by paradox.
Even the most psychotic of mages would have to account for paradox somehow when doing things we've seen warlocks trivially do so far, and nobody short of the peak of magical strength is enchanting objects which add their own limited case physical laws to reality.
As it stands quest wizards are flatly superior to WoD mages in every way that matters at the same power level.
When Harry shoots a werewolf through a building with a ray of fire in front of dozens of cops he wasn't coasting on protagonist power. He taught teenagers to do that sort of thing.
People and things that do not matter to the plot do not matter at all. A dozen wizards who silently hide at home are absolutely irrelevant to the problem of one guy able to turn physics inside out who shows up every two weeks.
Wizards have different limits because they don't work the same way as mages do. The huge scope of powers mages are allowed, including this sort of deep reality twisting nonsense, is predicated on the serious in the moment limits they're subject to.
They should be one of these things or the other, making them both takes the brakes off everything.
It is when the desire for murder gets all consuming, they make a mistake and die. The White Council isn't interested in the effects of Lawbreaking much past the basics, but the fact is it keeps getting worse. People like Drusus have to work to sublimate their many obsessions to a higher purpose and even so it destroys them, just slower.
A psycho mage who wants to blow up a city and has the juice to do it has to deal with paradox making it impossible or lethal to attempt. An equally psychotic and powerful wizard can just do it and keep doing it.
It also doesn't really apply to the higher end stuff. Mages are given high level powers wizards very much aren't intended to have which are predicted on paradox being an increasingly difficult problem to surmount with the scope of the spell.
The laws of magic won't punish wizards at all for doing those things, so mechanically they can pull out any of the legal super bullshit that MtA assumes forces you to flee reality after casting and do them whenever.
