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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Explain that in time, with great effort and at great risk an Enlightened Wizard might be able to reproduce such a work. Explain that the Book of Law is near the peak of what is possible to do with the craft (4 dot rating), so even someone with a capability would need talent, study, and a lot of experience to try making it with any hope of success. And even then they would need very special unique infrastructure to help them.
-[X] "It would be the work of a lifetime, a Wizard's lifetime, to develop the necessary skills to even hope to reproduce the Book. So by all means, I encourage you to find and help train such a Wizard, if they are willing to devote themselves to the task."
 
DragonParadox said:
Dragonblooded can do it too so can Lydia, making splendors is just specialized Ancient Sorcery which was designed by Salina to be usable by mortals, a fact which pissed off many of her peers.
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So what happened to this then:

DragonParadox said:
Mortals, like plain old vanilla humans? No, non-Exalted supernatural beings, maybe. The thing is unlike mortal magic Ancient Socery starts from the premise of 'I have authority over this thing of my own intrinsic nature' and then continue with *hacks the N patches ago source code of the universe*. Putting power behind one of those things as a mortal wizard will kill you, both might just write you out of existence. Now could some unseen genius have found a way around that technically... again maybe. It would take a lot of time, a lot of skill and no small amount of luck.

It is not something you guys should even anticipate teaching a mortal.
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Reality works differently these days doesn't it? Harry has the power, but what about the rest?

Given that you've made awakening and splendor crafting teachable we've gone from "you should discard the possibility of teaching this" to "the council can hold a lecture series on designing your own physical laws".

Somehow this arc has managed to leave the impression that the wizards are idiots while also wanking their supernatural power.
 
Something that stood out to me:
DragonParadox said:
"And if you were indisposed as Warden Luccio was or dead as too many of our fellows now are? What then?
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This is something that we haven't really made plans for elsewhere either. Particularly what happens if the next person who gets our Exaltation is a monster. IMHO it's a good reason to focus on getting other friendly Celestials into the mix, whether the Solar and Abyssal or otherwise. Both to fulfill obligations like this and to "discard and draw" if our successor is unworthy.
 
BronzeTongue said:
So what happened to this then:



Reality works differently these days doesn't it? Harry has the power, but what about the rest?

Given that you've made awakening and splendor crafting teachable we've gone from "you should discard the possibility of teaching this" to "the council can hold a lecture series on designing your own physical laws".

Somehow this arc has managed to leave the impression that the wizards are idiots while also wanking their supernatural power.
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What happened is Molly learned more about how Ancient Sorcery works as she practiced Ancient Sorcery. She learned the difference between the Terrestrial Circle, which mortals can access and the Celestial which they cannot because they lack the authority over those aspects of the world. When I gave that ruling she had precisely one ancient spell and that was Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism. Still trying to find Ancient Sorcery from first principles would take a super-genius, but you are here and you cab teach.

Also the first Enlightening of a wizard in who knows how much took that wizard being exposed to Essence use for months and then being tested by the Labyrinth and succeeding. That is not something the council could manufacture.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Being able to replicate the most exotic function of a 5 dot solaroid exclusive charm, even at great risk and using infrastructure, seems like a bit much.

They're supposed to have mortal limits, grappling with them is part of the flavor of their stories. In my view this doesn't so much make wizards better as it cheapens what splendors are and how wizards work.
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The charm also gives us intuitive design. We don't need to do research, we just make things. Wizards won't get that at all, and I suspect they couldn't replicate everything. Terrestrial tier limit.
 
Say guys can we uh take even just a little time to use crown questions to ask where some artifacts are across the world? I'm sure we can find focuses easily enough. You could use the knight as an example to get a list of the locations of Arthurian artifacts. Because our loot as an essence 4 infernal is abysmal. I mean we don't need to use it anytime soon. Could use any random Valkyrie for lost Norse artifacts. Uh could probably use ebenezzar to find any artifacts Merlin left around the world if their vaguely related though I doubt Molly would know this possibility.
 
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Odysseus2099 said:
Something that stood out to me:
This is something that we haven't really made plans for elsewhere either. Particularly what happens if the next person who gets our Exaltation is a monster. IMHO it's a good reason to focus on getting other friendly Celestials into the mix, whether the Solar and Abyssal or otherwise. Both to fulfill obligations like this and to "discard and draw" if our successor is unworthy.
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Prior to this wizards lacked access to essence. Harry high rolling and getting the rewards for a challenge that's considered a degree higher than SOULFIRE has changed the calculus.

Harry is his own version of Prometheus, having stolen fire from the gods. Wizardry will never be the same.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
Prior to this wizards lacked access to essence. Harry high rolling and getting the rewards for a challenge that's considered a degree higher than SOULFIRE has changed the calculus.

Harry is his own version of Prometheus, having stolen fire from the gods. Wizardry will never be the same.
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Fairly sure many have done it in the past in this quest harry is not unique in this.
 
firefrog600 said:
Fairly sure many have done it in the past in this quest harry is not unique in this.
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firefrog600 said:
Mind you I might be several centuries if not a thousand years since any wizards have had essence.
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I am unsure where you're getting this impression. Wizards are only a phenomenon in this iteration of reality the last Mortals to wield Essence would have been in the Age of Legends multiple iterations of reality ago.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
Prior to this wizards lacked access to essence. Harry high rolling and getting the rewards for a challenge that's considered a degree higher than SOULFIRE has changed the calculus.

Harry is his own version of Prometheus, having stolen fire from the gods. Wizardry will never be the same.
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...I'm kinda uncertain how this relates to what you quoted. It doesn't exactly make him a match for hypothetical Evil Molly, and even if he can teach it (unlikely), the WC can still be pretty trivially outmaneuvered by an Infernal opponent as we have proven this arc.
 
So the obstacles to wizards making a replacement Book of Law on their own are:
-have to awaken Essence (Harry is here)
-have to learn Splendor-crafting in general
-have to study and develop a blueprint for this item specifically
-have to access a place of power for the high rating

Is that right?
 
Exmorri said:
So the obstacles to wizards making a replacement Book of Law on their own are:
-have to awaken Essence (Harry is here)
-have to learn Splendor-crafting in general
-have to study and develop a blueprint for this item specifically
-have to access a place of power for the high rating

Is that right?
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Yes, technically there might be other things beside the place of power which can lower the rating, but that is the one you know of.
 
Yog said:
Long term lying is a bad idea, because wizards will try making splendors at some point
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Technically true but not relevant to the timetable of the Quest.

[X] Explain that in time, with great effort and at great risk an Enlightened Wizard might be able to reproduce such a work. Explain that the Book of Law is near the peak of what is possible to do with the craft (4 dot rating), so even someone with a capability would need talent, study, and a lot of experience to try making it with any hope of success. And even then they would need very special unique infrastructure to help them.
-[X] "It would be the work of a lifetime, a Wizard's lifetime, to develop the necessary skills to even hope to reproduce the Book. So by all means, I encourage you to find and help train such a Wizard, if they are willing to devote themselves to the task."
 
Degorium said:
I am unsure where you're getting this impression. Wizards are only a phenomenon in this iteration of reality the last Mortals to wield Essence would have been in the Age of Legends multiple iterations of reality ago.
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There are literal mortal essence teaching charms and we have examples of exalted both terrestrial and celestial. There's no chance no ones taught mortals essence.

I doubt Merlin didn't have essence I mean there are trapped non human exalted in the prison and he had access to terrestrials during Arthurian times.
 
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[X] Explain that in time, with great effort and at great risk an Enlightened Wizard might be able to reproduce such a work. Explain that the Book of Law is near the peak of what is possible to do with the craft (4 dot rating), so even someone with a capability would need talent, study, and a lot of experience to try making it with any hope of success. And even then they would need very special unique infrastructure to help them.
-[X] "It would be the work of a lifetime, a Wizard's lifetime, to develop the necessary skills to even hope to reproduce the Book. So by all means, I encourage you to find and help train such a Wizard, if they are willing to devote themselves to the task."
 
firefrog600 said:
There are literal mortal essence teaching charms and we have examples of exalted both terrestrial and celestial. There's no chance no ones taught mortals essence.
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One only Solars have those in exalted proper they now turn into make a Mages rather than Grant Essence so, two terrestrials nor alchemicals have them either three they are completely absent in exalted versus World of Darkness four you can't teach someone essence.

They either have it or they don't they could teach martial arts they can teach how to use ki they can teach how to use magic they can teach and use Mana they can teach every path of sorcery you can't teach essence. Harry only has it because it's a prize from essentially an outer God working through an intermediary.

We also so far only know of one instances of solar being active in this current iteration of reality and they were killed back when the Sahara was still partially green.

Harry was only able to get it as a reward because he was studying us and was in The Labyrinth of an outer God. If that is the criteria necessary to potentially have Essence then you are either making the assumption that Wizards just truck with outer Gods on a normal enough basis to beat them consistently while also having access to exalted.

So I remain confused on what you're getting the impression that previous Essence wielding Wizards could have even possibly existed the only exalted that were in the world prior to us was the ones that were literally prehistoric or dragon-blooded and the only dragon-blooded that we know so far are Arthur's Kin and the native Americans that Porter knew.

For previous Essence wielding Wizards to have existed they need to be intermingling with these peoples and handily beat an outer God Labyrinth.
 
Degorium said:
One only Solars have those in exalted proper they now turn into make a Mages rather than Grant Essence so, two terrestrials nor alchemicals have them either three they are completely absent in exalted versus World of Darkness four you can't teach someone essence.

They either have it or they don't they could teach martial arts they can teach how to use ki they can teach how to use magic they can teach and use Mana they can teach every path of sorcery you can't teach essence. Harry only has it because it's a prize from essentially an outer God working through an intermediary.

We also so far only know of one instances of solar being active in this current iteration of reality and they were killed back when the Sahara was still partially green.

Harry was only able to get it as a reward because he was studying us and was in The Labyrinth of an outer God. If that is the criteria necessary to potentially have Essence then you are either making the assumption that Wizards just truck with outer Gods on a normal enough basis to beat them consistently while also having access to exalted.

So I remain confused on what you're getting the impression that previous Essence wielding Wizards could have even possibly existed the only exalted that were in the world prior to us was the ones that were literally prehistoric or dragon-blooded and the only dragon-blooded that we know so far are Arthur's Kin and the native Americans that Porter knew.

For previous Essence wielding Wizards to have existed they need to be intermingling with these peoples and handily beat an outer God Labyrinth.
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Solaroid there was one or two in the prison. Tiger warrior don't exist anymore?

Also seems a folly to believe essence learning is unique to exactly this one thing. I mean I know it's rare but I doubt this is unique in all of history. I mean dp has already made the 666 years star born old souls if any of them got high enough past lives presumably they could get enlightened essence.
 
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firefrog600 said:
Solaroid there was one or two in the prison.
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Infernals nor abyssals had Grant someone else's charms they had turn you into a demon turn you into a ghost charm or turn you into a creature of Darkness turn you into a ghost-blooded charms they didn't have Grant you Essence charms.
firefrog600 said:
Tiger warrior don't exist anymore?
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Tiger Warriors never came with Essence that's just not a thing. You can be More the charm that makes Mages used to be the charm that maybe granted Essence.
In actuality YCBM only had a chance of granting a character Essence the actual function of the charm was to make a heroic mortal which did not necessarily mean they had Essence it just meant they got access to essentially a lot of exalted functions like being able to spend willpower being able to stunt things like that.

Tiger Warrior training can be used for a lot of things like martial art like Warfare, firearms, survival Athletics things like that but it can't Grant essence not in regular exalted or here. Hell you can't even teach magic with it not really.
Tiger Warrior Training Technique (••••)
By putting a mortal through a dedicated training regimen, the Solar can transform him into a finely tooled killing machine.

System: During each day of training a mortal or group of mortal students, spend 1 Essence per student. At the end of seven days of training, all students gain 30 experience points to spend raising their Physical Attributes, Wits, and Alertness, Athletics, Brawl, Melee, or Firearms Abilities. No Ability can be raised higher than that of their Solar instructor.

This Charm can be used on the same students repeatedly, but bestows only 20 experience points on subsequent training regimens. Any unspent experience is lost. Any Tiger Warrior who achieves 5 dots in an Ability or Attribute under this Charm's training regimen gains the ability to do stunts in the same fashion as the Exalted.

Supernal Effect: Whenever the Solar leads her Tiger Warriors in battle, all of their attack, defense, damage, and soak rolls are made at –1 difficulty.
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[X] Explain that in time, with great effort and at great risk an Enlightened Wizard might be able to reproduce such a work. Explain that the Book of Law is near the peak of what is possible to do with the craft (4 dot rating), so even someone with a capability would need talent, study, and a lot of experience to try making it with any hope of success. And even then they would need very special unique infrastructure to help them.
-[X] "It would be the work of a lifetime, a Wizard's lifetime, to develop the necessary skills to even hope to reproduce the Book. So by all means, I encourage you to find and help train such a Wizard, if they are willing to devote themselves to the task."
 
Degorium said:
Infernals nor abyssals had Grant someone else's charms they had turn you into a demon turn you into a ghost charm or turn you into a creature of Darkness turn you into a ghost-blooded charms they didn't have Grant you Essence charms.

Tiger Warriors never came with Essence that's just not a thing. You can be More the charm that makes Mages used to be the charm that maybe granted Essence.
In actuality YCBM only had a chance of granting a character Essence the actual function of the charm was to make a heroic mortal which did not necessarily mean they had Essence it just meant they got access to essentially a lot of exalted functions like being able to spend willpower being able to stunt things like that.

Tiger Warrior training can be used for a lot of things like martial art like Warfare, firearms, survival Athletics things like that but it can't Grant essence not in regular exalted or here. Hell you can't even teach magic with it not really.
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Still highly doubt this is unique throughout all of history mythology included. I mean we already know those born during that period have old souls in quest. They can likely gain essence if they gain past lives.
 
firefrog600 said:
Still highly doubt this is unique throughout all of history mythology included. I mean we already know those born during that period have old souls in quest. They can likely gain essence if they gain past lives.
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Even with past life memories they would need one of a variety of things peaches of immortality, wine of Heaven, Celestial Cocaine or an N/A artifact that's not a hyperbole that is how Mortals unlocked Essence in the age of Legends or they would need access to the unfettered Wyld.

Well there are other methods outside of this these are pretty much it and all of them are no longer accessible past the age of Legends. The true unfettered wild is beyond the outer Gates the celestial cocaine peaches of immortality and the wine of Heaven either with Yu-Shan defunct or in the Silver City where God lives which the accessibility of any of those things is questionable and artifacts aren't a thing anymore.

Past Lives having Essence does not help with gaining essence. They only provide information a path and without access to Yu Shan or other Celestial or Chaotic resources there's no real way to make the jump.
 
[X] Explain that in time, with great effort and at great risk an Enlightened Wizard might be able to reproduce such a work. Explain that the Book of Law is near the peak of what is possible to do with the craft (4 dot rating), so even someone with a capability would need talent, study, and a lot of experience to try making it with any hope of success. And even then they would need very special unique infrastructure to help them.
-[X] "It would be the work of a lifetime, a Wizard's lifetime, to develop the necessary skills to even hope to reproduce the Book. So by all means, I encourage you to find and help train such a Wizard, if they are willing to devote themselves to the task."
 
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