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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DragonParadox said:
Not quite, it gives them different powers, odds are it would take them some time to adapt.
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Are they eligible for IDU anyway? It specifies mortals as targets.
Anaja said:
We don't hold this back, and we don't charge people to have the vampire infection that will eat them alive removed. Sure, they may have to take a number and wait, maybe we let some people pay to move ahead in line, but we do this simply because not doing it is unacceptable.
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Yes, I agree, but this is, in many ways, a triage. We are juggling tons of plates. Which is why my vote is focusing on other options. MiS should at least help. FSB should be a solution. A transformation spelndor is a one-time investment, but long-term is faster and cheaper in terms of our time. Which is why I am asking for their help. I am not withholding help. I am asking them to help me help them.
 
[x] Yog

We can ask for token favors, so as to not make it appear too good to be true.

If we don't ask for anything, we will have the higher ups of the organization constantly searching for the catch.
 
I think that I might be even more annoyed if we asked for a token favor as a formality paying lipservice to it being a transaction with a debt paid. I'd rather us make a point of not asking for something in return. We aren't a fairy bound to demand a debt. We can simply choose to be kind and generous, and the world needs that possibility championed.
 
Yog said:
Which is why my vote is focusing on other options. MiS should at least help. FSB should be a solution. A transformation spelndor is a one-time investment, but long-term is faster and cheaper in terms of our time. Which is why I am asking for their help. I am not withholding help. I am asking them to help me help them.
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Also this. Yog's vote does involve bringing up that there may be other means of going about it. Possibly more efficient ones as well for that matter.

Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
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BoredMan said:
Nobody said anything about a quarter million dollars. If they were the only doctor on the planet or offering the cheapest price compared to other means I'd still be thankful. This isn't either or. Asking for something tangible for services rendered isn't being a dick when you have a list of other things you need to be doing. We aren't going to agree on that.
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Quarter million dollars was deliberately used as the estimate for a weeks-long US hospital stay after major surgery.
Dont ask me how I know.

You'd be thankful? Good for you. I mean that.
But would you now risk your life for that doctor or hospital? Your family's lives? Your friend's lives?
Because thats the sort of goodwill we are talking about here. Its the difference between a business associate, and a friend.

The sort of goodwill that had Summer Lady Lily call us with a headsup, unprompted, at the beginning of this turn.


The going market price for a SCE exorcism is a Fae Court favor. Very few people, very few organizations can afford that.
The Fellowship sure as fuck cannot.
And yet the first use of SCE in this quest was to exorcise a 10 year old. For free. We do that.


To reiterate, the Fellowship is an insurgency.
They are poor, in money and resources, and rely a significant deal on external support and shady business dealings to self-fund and keep going. Any actual material demands for payment strain already scant resources.

Also worth noting that half-bloods are a plurality, but not all of the Fellowship.
They attract all sorts of supernatural outcasts; Hannah Ascher is currently a Fellowship member.
They cant afford to turn much of their resources to Red Court dhampir welfare without internal dissent.



And we do not need anything the Fellowship has. We'd just be charging them because we can.
Like a billionaire charging homeless people for drinking water.
Which is not something Molly has a history of doing, nor something she wants a reputation for doing.

BoredMan said:
Both votes result in this.
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Not really.
The other vote requires that the Fellowship divert resources, whether its people and man-hours or favors, from their war with the Red Court in order to pay us. To, if necessary, take risks, to pay this.

They arent the same thing.
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Anaja said:
I think that I might be even more annoyed if we asked for a token favor as a formality paying lipservice to it being a transaction with a debt paid. I'd rather us make a point of not asking for something in return. We aren't a fairy bound to demand a debt. We can simply choose to be kind and generous, and the world needs that possibility championed.
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^^^
If we can only find the time to do X number of exorcisms a month? No problem, we tell them.
Like an international team of volunteers offering, say, eye surgery for free, noone expects you to spend your entire day there.


Charging them for it is just a dick move, especially since its one that doesnt actually benefit Molly in any sort of material way.
I mean, is anyone seriously saying that Molly cannot already source reliable help in South America if she wants it?
That she cannot already pay for it?

The Fae are bound to exchange services
Molly is not.
 
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uju32 said:
Quarter million dollars was deliberately used as the estimate for a weeks-long US hospital stay after major surgery.
Dont ask me how I know.

You'd be thankful? Good for you. I mean that.
But would you now risk your life for that doctor or hospital? Your family's lives? Your friend's lives?
Because thats the sort of goodwill we are talking about here. Its the difference between a business associate, and a friend.
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Okay.. I feel like you've made an assumption here but my point was your statement of a quarter of a million dollars is not particularly relevant.

I get what your saying but it isn't either or. Also we don't need them to fight for us. We have soldiers.

uju32 said:
The going market price for a SCE exorcism is a Fae Court favor. Very few people, very few organizations can afford that.
The Fellowship sure as fuck cannot.
And yet the first use of SCE in this quest was to exorcise a 10 year old. For free. We do that.
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That's what we got for using it on the Fae Courts. Not particularly relevant here either. We can simply get something more reasonable out of it. Your speaking against a strawman position. Exaggerating to make a point.

Using it on one person who can't pay anything at all is different from asking for some measure of recompense from an organization to take time and essence to use it on X amount of people going forward.


uju32 said:
And we do not need anything the Fellowship has. We'd just be charging them because we can.
Like a billionaire charging homeless people for drinking water.
Which is not something Molly has a history of doing, nor something she wants a reputation for doing.
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It's called trade. Our time is of great value to us. Just because you aren't giving something entirely for free doesn't mean your a bad person or something.

uju32 said:
Not really.
The other vote requires that the Fellowship divert resources, whether its people and man-hours or favors, from their war with the Red Court in order to pay us. To, if necessary, take risks, to pay this.
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What it requires from them depends on what we ask for and arrange after the fact. They could immediately supply us in intel on several things to start with. The Fellowship fights the Reds and keeps track of their movements where/when they can. We could ask them to report such information to us which even benefits them.

Just because we'd be asking for something doesn't mean it has to be unreasonable or that we can't do other things for them later tradewise.

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[X] Plan first one is free
-[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
--[X] Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
--[X] As one of the options... Fetch me some napkins, please.
-[X][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
 
I think that I dislike my vote. I liked the stunt a lot, and my main thrust was to bring other options to the table. The point is that the exorcism is absolute, and we can and should do it as often as we can without compromising stuff, but there are other options too. Mercy in Servitude should help a bit. False Springs Beckons almost certainly will help. A 3 dot splendor should solve their issues:
Form of the Hearth (2 pt. Form Element)
Transformation (3 pt. Root Element)
Fitful Malady (0 pt. Mystic Element): Time staying manifested decreases to 1 day
Sorcerous Imbuing (0 pt. Mystic Element): Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism
Elongation of the Curse (1 pt. Mystic Element) X3: Transformation
When manifested, the Splendor decorates the room in which it manifests with ritual implements reflecting the five elements, the sun, the moon, the stars, and the grave. It manifests as a pedestal in the center of the room with a ritual knife on top of it. The knife is normally dull enough not to cut butter, and can only harm the person wielding it, and even then, only willingly. When a person enters the room and willingly, and with full understanding of the expected outcome cuts themselves with a ritual knife, shedding blood on the pedestal, the Splendor acts as a Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism, if fully automated, and instantaneous. The person affected is transformed into their perfectly mundane mortal self, all unnatural magic removed from them.
I mean, this should be possible by the rules. Basically, we can automate. But we'll need resources for that.

I am not interested in squeezing them. I am interested in getting them to help us help them.

I won't be changing my vote because others already voted for it by name.
 
So basically, we want to go over the options we have for helping them, and ask them to help us get any regents/people we need for it, while being open about what resources and commitments we have already.

For a longer term price, we would ask to stay in contact, basically getting a weak information network - if shit goes down in the area, they call us. It's basically a free 'help us!' for them, but framed as a cost - because if anything big happens, but they don't need our help, we can still check in with them and trust them to answer us freely.

So, regent gathering for Yog's conversion chamber, and we need to find someone with 1 Essence to use the splendor. That bit… may be tricky.

Other than that, we just want good relations (for our own beachhead here) and to empower them to fight the Court better. (Meaning a training post for FCoF tech).

Does that sound like an accurate summation of our prices? (It's not like we need money from them).
 
The biggest problem that I have with asking anything in return from them for our help with this is that we are their only option. We have the monopoly here, and they have to pay whatever we want if they want to be free of their curse. They should not have to serve us in some way to be free of that curse. If there were other options, and they were merely paying for the convenience of Molly, then I'd be okay with us asking something in return. They don't though. They are suffering, and we would be demanding their service in return for ending that suffering.

We are a devout Catholic, and our two major role models for how to go out doing good in the world have been Michael and Harry. We should be offering our help without strings attached in this instance. Asking for something in return here feels out of character.
 
Anaja said:
The biggest problem that I have with asking anything in return from them for our help with this is that we are their only option. We have the monopoly here, and they have to pay whatever we want if they want to be free of their curse. They should not have to serve us in some way to be free of that curse. If there were other options, and they were merely paying for the convenience of Molly, then I'd be okay with us asking something in return. They don't though. They are suffering, and we would be demanding their service in return for ending that suffering.

We are a devout Catholic, and our two major role models for how to go out doing good in the world have been Michael and Harry. We should be offering our help without strings attached in this instance. Asking for something in return here feels out of character.
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Okay this conversation about whether compensation from this group is necessary or good has gone on for a while now but at this point I do feel the need to say it we literally just got done fighting a protracted battle for reality just now not even a week ago flat out.

The resource intake for creating measures to keep that fight for reality on the side of people in reality is massive we need to start making resources that do not require us to go on missions that are literally months long to get we need an intake of resources so we can keep helping people this operation of trying to fix reality cannot be done by one person.

We need to start asking organizations that we work with that have any level of resources not just the white Council or the fae courts any level of resources that might be useful to reduce our general workload to help us in exchange for our help it is called a mutual Aid and it is extremely important.

They can call it debt and payment if they like I don't care them producing any level of resources that allows us to possibly spare another AP possibly spare another day of our time is a resource well spent in the defense of reality so far because we have been spending our time extremely efficiently.

[X] Plan first one is free
 
@DragonParadox Did we really roll ten sux on Empathy while talking to Martin about his/his masters' core goals, and not notice anything hinky? I mean, I know Mr. Super Triple-Agent is good, but damn.
Yog said:
A 3 dot splendor should solve their issues:
Spoiler: build Form of the Hearth (2 pt. Form Element)
Transformation (3 pt. Root Element)
Fitful Malady (0 pt. Mystic Element): Time staying manifested decreases to 1 day
Sorcerous Imbuing (0 pt. Mystic Element): Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism
Elongation of the Curse (1 pt. Mystic Element) X3: Transformation Spoiler: Description When manifested, the Splendor decorates the room in which it manifests with ritual implements reflecting the five elements, the sun, the moon, the stars, and the grave. It manifests as a pedestal in the center of the room with a ritual knife on top of it. The knife is normally dull enough not to cut butter, and can only harm the person wielding it, and even then, only willingly. When a person enters the room and willingly, and with full understanding of the expected outcome cuts themselves with a ritual knife, shedding blood on the pedestal, the Splendor acts as a Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism, if fully automated, and instantaneous. The person affected is transformed into their perfectly mundane mortal self, all unnatural magic removed from them.
I mean, this should be possible by the rules. Basically, we can automate. But we'll need resources for that.
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If we get the forge finished, reducing the cost of three dot to two, we won't really need any worth caring about. Yet another reason why our AP are better spent on things other than dedicated healing actions.
 
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BoredMan said:
Okay.. I feel like you've made an assumption here but my point was your statement of a quarter of a million dollars is not particularly relevant.

I get what your saying but it isn't either or. Also we don't need them to fight for us. We have soldiers.
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Collecting information in Red Court territory is dangerous.
Simply existing in Red Court territory as a hostile supernatural or an associate of one is taking your life in your hands.
Nevermind collecting information that might be of interest to Molly and other enemies of the Reds, and trying to get it across.

Pretty much anything you are asking of them is very much a situation where you are demanding them to take on measurably increased risk of death and damage for our convenience.
Maggie's foster family was murdered messily in canon for sheltering a child.

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BoredMan said:
That's what we got for using it on the Fae Courts. Not particularly relevant here either. We can simply get something more reasonable out of it. Your speaking against a strawman position. Exaggerating to make a point.

Using it on one person who can't pay anything at all is different from asking for some measure of recompense from an organization to take time and essence to use it on X amount of people going forward.
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Thats the going market rate so I think it is relevant.
Anyone who has the access to know what happened at Avalon will know thats what the Summer Court Queen valued it as, and will be working from that benchmark.


No it is not.
We would be demanding payment from an organization that is both poor, notably reliant on the aid of others to remain operationally viable, and with multiple ongoing commitments of its own competing for those resources.

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BoredMan said:
It's called trade. Our time is of great value to us. Just because you aren't giving something entirely for free doesn't mean your a bad person or something.
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Molly is human, not Fae. She is not obliged to demand something for doing anything.
None of the Jade Dogs give her much of anything, but she doesnt demand they pay; in fact, she does the paying.

Molly is a geopolitical actor in the supernatural world.
She does not determine her actions based on the need for recompense, and in fact some of her biggest actions have been customarily done for free.



And no, I disagree about this. If you are a billionaire, say, and you insist on charging poor people for something that costs you very little if anything, I would feel comfortable in calling you a bad person.
Or, say, your office started charging you for each use of the bathroom, or every time you got a cup of water from the sink.

We generally dont consider Ebenezar Scrooge a role model to emulate.
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BoredMan said:
What it requires from them depends on what we ask for and arrange after the fact. They could immediately supply us in intel on several things to start with. The Fellowship fights the Reds and keeps track of their movements where/when they can. We could ask them to report such information to us which even benefits them.

Just because we'd be asking for something doesn't mean it has to be unreasonable or that we can't do other things for them later tradewise.

Edit: Error
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They are an insurgent group operating in territory against a more powerful enemy faction that has a known history of killing them and any of their allies or that are uncovered in horrible ways. They dont have much stretch in their resources.
There is very little you can ask them to do that doesnt measurably increase their threat profile.

Demanding payment from them weakens and risks them in ways that are contrary to our personal interests and that of the world at large.


As for intelligence-sharing, that comes with trust and the assurance that we wont risk their ways and means.
They want the Red Court's downfall, and will help for free where they can, assuming they can do it without excessive risk to their organization.

I mean, Harry didnt pay shit for the knowledge that Susan and Martin brought him about Paolo Ortega in Death Masks.
It was volunteered.

I will also point at our history in this quest.
At least two of our Circle's members are people who we gave aid, no strings attached.
There is a lesson there to be heeded. IMO.
 
uju32 said:
no, I disagree about this. If you are a billionaire, say, and you insist on charging poor people for something that costs you very little if anything, I would feel comfortable in calling you a bad person.
Or, say, your office started charging you for each use of the bathroom, or every time you got a cup of water from the sink.
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See I would agree with that if the half Reds couldn't live as half Reds for a literally indeterminate period of time they don't need an exorcism on the goddamn spot that's not a thing they need it's not food it's not shelter it's not water, would they prefer to be human would they prefer not to have to live with these cravings and they're not wrong to do that but yet again there's a limited number of hours in a day there is no metric by which we can cleanse even a hundredth of their number within any of the appreciable amount of time.

We have our own existence that is spent on things frankly more important then the essentially wants of these half Reds. They must contribute to some other Endeavor otherwise they are an active detriment to the workings that we can perform on pretty much any other level.
uju32 said:
They are an insurgent group operating in territory against a more powerful enemy faction that has a known history of killing them and any of their allies or that are uncovered in horrible ways. They dont have much stretch in their resources.

There is very little you can ask them to do that doesnt measurably increase their threat profile.
Demanding payment from them weakens and risks them in ways that are contrary to our personal interests and that of the world at large.

As for intelligence-sharing, that comes with trust and the assurance that we wont risk their ways and means.
They want the Red Court's downfall, and will help for free where they can, assuming they can do it without excessive risk to their organization.

I mean, Harry didnt pay shit for the knowledge that Susan and Martin brought him about Paolo Ortega in Death Masks.

It was volunteered.

I will also point at our history in this quest.
At least two of our Circle's members are people who we gave aid, no strings attached.
There is a lesson there to be heeded. IMO.
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They're not integral to defending reality, they're not in critical condition, they're not in a place where we have power, they're not in a place where they have power, they're not actually a helpful active assistant against the red Court, they're not anything personally to us, they're not anything in the grand scheme of things of the faction. If they can't give anything (information or material Aid) then we are actively wasting time that would be better spent on cleansing the red court on them.

The allocation of resources is real and our time is frankly too thin to spend it on essentially in remission patients we've been running triage for the white council for the better part of three days and now you want to spend it God knows how many AP on fixing something that can last until they all literally die of old age.

They must do something to lighten the load because otherwise they're literally more detriment to helping other people in helping them that anything else we could be doing. If they can do nothing to lighten the load cleansing the red Court so no more half Reds can be made is a better usage of our time.
 
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uju32 said:
Pretty much anything you are asking of them is very much a situation where you are demanding them to take on measurably increased risk of death and damage for our convenience.
Maggie's foster family was murdered messily in canon for sheltering a child.
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It's literally something that they do already. They can provide us with what intel they already have and as they get it.


uju32 said:
Thats the going market rate so I think it is relevant.
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Molly did not decide for them to give us favors. They gave those to us for using it on highly valued Fae because that's how the Fae work. They didn't have a choice. If negotiating with anyone else Molly, the playerbase, have the option of asking for something else.

This is just a strawman argument.

uju32 said:
No it is not.
We would be demanding payment from an organization that is both poor, notably reliant on the aid of others to remain operationally viable, and with multiple ongoing commitments of its own competing for those resources.
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It is factually different.


uju32 said:
Molly is human, not Fae. She is not obliged to demand something for doing anything.
None of the Jade Dogs give her much of anything, but she doesnt demand they pay; in fact, she does the paying.

Molly is a geopolitical actor in the supernatural world.
She does not determine her actions based on the need for recompense, and in fact some of her biggest actions have been customarily done for free.

And no, I disagree about this. If you are a billionaire, say, and you insist on charging poor people for something that costs you very little if anything, I would feel comfortable in calling you a bad person.
Or, say, your office started charging you for each use of the bathroom, or every time you got a cup of water from the sink.
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The Jade Dogs help keep the place she lives safe and the Last Station serves us and out Hand agents in several ways. Bad example.

This does not cost us very little if anything. Our goals align with their own as well what we'd ask for we'd benefit from mutually.

The bathroom comparison is wild. I'm not sure what to think after reading that.

uju32 said:
Demanding payment from them weakens and risks them in ways that are contrary to our personal interests and that of the world at large.
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That's depends on what we ask for and how it's arranged after the fact.

uju32 said:
As for intelligence-sharing, that comes with trust and the assurance that we wont risk their ways and means.
They want the Red Court's downfall, and will help for free where they can, assuming they can do it without excessive risk to their organization.
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Or we can ask for that as a form of payment and they can provide us with intel without disclosing their sources to us just as we would tell people things without disclosing our sources.

uju32 said:
I will also point at our history in this quest.
At least two of our Circle's members are people who we gave aid, no strings attached.
There is a lesson there to be heeded. IMO.
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Completely different context. I'm not of the opinion that we should always deal in goodwill. It depends on the situation and what's being asked of us.
 
Degorium said:
See I would agree with that if the half Reds couldn't live as half Reds for a literally indeterminate period of time they don't need an exorcism on the goddamn spot that's not a thing they need it's not food it's not shelter it's not water, would they prefer to be human would they prefer not to have to live with these cravings and they're not wrong to do that but yet again there's a limited number of hours in a day there is no metric by which we can cleanse even a hundredth of their number within any of the appreciable amount of time.
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You are misinformed. You need to read chapter 24-25 of Death Masks again.

Every half-blood literally has to live in the knowledge that if they lose control once, they fall off the wagon and Change.
They cant have families or close relationships, because sex will almost certainly result in the death of their partner and their change into a full Red. Its a constant struggle for them.

They cant even stay in the same room indefinitely with open blood because its a major temptation.
We have seen Susan twice almost kill Dresden in canon, once in each book she appeared.
I limped to the icebox, which was going to need more ice before long. I didn't have the leftover energy to freeze the water again by magic. I grabbed two cans of Coca-Cola, opened them both, and took one to Susan. She took a long guzzle and I joined her.
"You're limping," she said when she was done.
I looked down at my feet. "Only one shoe. It makes me lopsided."
"You're hurt," she said. Her eyes were fastened on my leg. "Bleeding."
"It isn't too bad. I'll clean it up in a minute."
Susan's eyes never wavered, but they got darker. Her voice grew quieter. "Do you need help?"
I turned a bit warily so that she couldn't see the injured leg. She shivered and made an evident effort to look away. The tattoos on her face were lighter now-not fainter, but changing in colors. "I'm sorry. Harry, I'm sorry, but I'd better go."
"You can't," I said.
Her voice remained very quiet, very toneless. "You don't get it. I'll explain everything to you in a little while. I promise. But I have to leave."
I cleared my throat. "Um. No, you don't get it. You can't. Cannot. Literally."
"What?"
"The defenses I put up have two sides and they don't have an off switch. We literally, physically can't leave until they go down."
Susan looked up at me and then folded her arms, staring at her Coke can. "Crud," she said. "How long?"
I shook my head. "I built them to run for about eight hours. Sunrise is going to degrade it a little though. Maybe four hours, five at the most."
"Five hours," she said under her breath. "Oh, God."
"What's wrong?"
She waved a hand vaguely. "I've been - been using some of the power. To be faster. Stronger. If I'm calm, it doesn't get stirred up. But I haven't been calm. It's built up inside of me. Water on a dam. It wants to break free, to get loose."
I licked my lips. If Susan lost control of herself, there was no place to run. "What can I do to help?"
She shook her head, refusing to look up at me. "I don't know. Let me have some quiet. Try to relax." Something cold and hungry flickered in her eyes. "Get your leg cleaned up. I can smell it. It's - distracting."
"See if you can build the fire," I said, and slipped into my room, closing the door behind me. I went into the bathroom and closed that door too. My first-aid kit had its own spot on one of the shelves. I downed a couple of Tylenol, slipped out of the remains of my rented tux, and cleaned up the cut on my leg. It was a shallow cut, but a good four inches long, and it had bled messily. I used disinfectant soap with cold water to wash it out, then slathered it in an antibacterial gel before laying several plastic bandages over the injury, to hold it closed. It didn't hurt. Or at least I didn't pick it out from the background of aches and pains my body was telling me about.
Shivering again, I climbed into some sweats, a T-shirt, and a flannel bathrobe. I looked around in my closet, at a couple of the other things I'd made for a rainy day. I took one of the potions I'd brewed, the ones to counter the venom of the Red Court, and put it in my pocket. I missed my shield bracelet.
I opened the door to the living room and Susan was standing six inches away, her eyes black with no white to them, the designs on her skin flushed a dark maroon.
"I can still smell your blood," she whispered. "I think you need to find a way to hold me back, Harry. And you need to do it now."
"Susan," I said quietly. "Give me your hands."
She opened her eyes and looked at the soft, fine rope. "That won't hold me."
"I made it in case an ogre I pissed off came visiting. Give me your hands."
She was silent for a moment. Then she shrugged out of her jacket, and held her hands out, wrists up.
I tossed the rope at her and whispered, "Manacus."
I'd enchanted the rope six months before, but I'd done it right. It took barely a whisper of power to set the rope into motion. It whipped into the air, silver threads flashing, and bound itself around her wrists in neat loops.
Susan reacted instantly, going completely tense. I saw her set herself and strain against the ropes. I waited, watching for a full half a minute before she started shaking and stopped trying to break them. She let out a shaking breath, her head bowed, hair fallen around her face. I started to move toward her, when she stood up, legs spread enough to brace herself firmly, and tried again, lifting her arms.
I licked my lips, watching. I didn't think she'd break the ropes, but I'd underestimated people before. Her face, her too-black eyes scared me. She strained against the ropes again, the movement drawing her shirt up, showing me her smooth brown stomach, the winding swirls and barbs of her tattoo red and stark against her skin. There were dark bruises over her ribs, and patches of skin that had been scraped raw. She hadn't come away from our tumble from Martin's car without being hurt, after all.
After a minute more, she hissed out a breath and sat down, hair a tumbled mess around her face. I could feel her eyes on me more than I could actually see them. They didn't feel like Susan's eyes anymore. The tattoos stood out against her skin, red as blood. I backed off, again deliberately, calmly, and got the first aid kit out of the bathroom.
When I came back out, she flung herself at me in blinding speed and utter silence. I'd been expecting as much, and snapped, "Forzare!"
The silver rope flashed with a glitter of blue light and darted toward the ceiling. Her wrists went with it and she was pulled completely from the floor. Her feet swung up, and she twisted, again in silence, fighting the bonds on her. She didn't get free, and I let her swing there until her legs had settled again, her toes barely touching the floor.
She let out a quiet sob and whispered, "I'm sorry. Harry, I can't stop it."
"It's okay. I've got you." I stepped closer to examine the injuries on her midsection and winced. "God. You got torn up."
"I hate this. I'm so sorry."
It hurt me to hear her voice. There was enough pain in it for both of us. "Shhhh," I said. "Let me take care of you."
I climbed out of the hole, then over and around a couple of dump trucks' worth of rubble, and hurried over to Susan's side on the opposite end of the ring.
She lay limp and still. There were small cuts and bruises all over her. Her leather pants had hundreds of little holes in them—the shards of bone from the exploding vampire skull, I guessed. Her spine was bent and twisted. I couldn't tell how bad it was. I mean . . . Susan had always been fairly limber, and I had more reason to know than most. With her entire body limp like that, it was hard to say.
She was breathing, and her tattoos were still there, now bright scarlet. Her pulse was far too slow, and I wasn't sure it was steady. I leaned down and peeled back one eyelid.
Her eyes were black, all the way through.
I licked my lips. The tattoos were a warning indicator the Fellowship used. As Susan's vampire nature gained more influence over her actions, the tattoos appeared, solid black at first, but lightening to bright red as the vampire within gained more control. Susan wasn't conscious, but if she had been, she would have been insane with bloodlust. She'd nearly killed me the last time it had happened.
It was sort of what had started this whole mess, in fact.
Her body was covered in injuries of various sizes, and I thought I knew what was happening. It was instinctively drawing upon the vampire portion of her nature to restore her damaged flesh—but as she had not provided that nature with sustenance, it could offer her only limited assistance.
She needed blood.
But if she got it, woke up, and decided that she just had to have more . . . yikes.
Her breathing kept slowing. It caught for a moment, and I nearly panicked.
Then I shook my head, took my penknife from my duster's pocket, and opened a cut in my left palm, in an area where the old burn scars were thickest, and which still didn't have a lot of sensitivity.
I cupped my hand while I bled into my palm. Then, very carefully, I reached down and tipped my palm to carefully spill a few drops into Susan's mouth.
You would have thought I'd just run a current of electricity through her body. She quivered, went rigid, and then arched her back into a bow. Strange popping sounds came from her spine. Her empty black eyes opened and she gasped, then stared blindly, trying to find my hand again with her mouth, the way a suckling baby finds its meals. I held my hand over her mouth and let the blood trickle in slowly.
She surged in languid motion beneath my hand, savoring the blood as if it were chocolate, a massage, good sex, and a new car all rolled into one. Two minutes of slow, dreamy, arching motion later, her eyes suddenly focused on me and then narrowed. She snatched at my arm with her hands—and I drove my right fist into her face.
I didn't pull the punch, either. If her darker nature was allowed to continue, it would destroy her, killing me as a by-product of the process. Her head snapped back against the ground, and she blinked her eyes, stunned.
I stood up, took a few steps back, and stuffed my injured hand into my pocket. I was tired, and feeling shocky. My whole arm felt cold. I didn't stop falling back until I was sure I could shield in time to hold her off if she came at me.
I recognized it when Susan checked back in. Her breathing slowed, becoming controlled and steady. It took her four or five minutes of focus to push her darker self away from control, but eventually she did. She sat up slowly. She licked at her bloodstained lips and shuddered in slow ecstasy for a second before dashing her sleeve across her mouth and forcing herself to her feet. She looked around wildly, a terrible dread in her eyes—until she spotted me.
She stared at me for a moment, and then closed her eyes. She whispered, "Thank God."
I nodded to her and beckoned for her to stand at my side.
I waited until she reached me. Then we both turned to face the Erlking.
When they had sex in Death Masks, Dresden had to tie her up with magical rope and avoid her front because she would have killed him otherwise. When she lost control in Changes, Winter Knight Harry had to punch her in the face full-strength to hold her back

And the one time that she lost control without anyone there to help her, she became a Red.

There's a reason why someone like Martin has Willpower 8. Thats what it requires to not fall to temptation for that long
The old halfbloods you see are the survivors; its not typically something that people can just go around for months and years, let alone centuries.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Nov 12, 2024 at 7:11 PM, finished with 56 posts and 22 votes.
  • [X] Plan first one is free
    -[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    --[X] Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
    --[X] As one of the options... Fetch me some napkins, please.
    -[x][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
    [X] Still free, it will just take a while
    [X] Plan Slow and Steady, or Not
    -[X] Still free, it will just take a while
    -[X] Those who don't want to take a number, can purchase your free time.
    --[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    [X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    [X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    -[x][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
Click to expand...
 
The members of the Fellowship of St. Giles are either opposed to the Red Court because they're a horrible force of evil that needs to be opposed, or because they're circumstances have stripped them of options to the point that they're forced to do so. There's room for overlap, but those are the options.

If we cure them of the curse that they are suffering, then we remove the big thing shaping their options. At that point it would be oppose the Red Court either because they think it should be opposed, or be forced into opposing the Red Court because Molly is making you.

The ones that want to oppose the Red Court can be brought under our authority, and are likely to all but beg us to join in anyway. We can negotiate whatever arrangement we want with them at that point.
I don't want us holding their only hope over the heads of those who want out, and forcing them to fight the fight that they don't want to be a part of. We can work to minimize it, but it's an inherent part of them being made to work for us in exchange for the cure. They don't have a choice, and we'd be exploiting that.
 
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