Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[Azais]

Indeed. Which is why I, again, will be voting to deal with solar shard's security.

Click to shrink...

As I said before, if you hadn't spent several dozen posts before angrily advocating releasing every Exalted that we possibly have some clue about, before coming back and clarifying that, in this case, is just to strengthen the seal (which I have a sneaking suspicion that you're just waiting for an excuse to release it) more people would have supported you sooner.

 

[firefrog600]

As I said before, if you hadn't spent several dozen posts before angrily advocating releasing every Exalted that we possibly have some clue about, before coming back and clarifying that, in this case, is just to strengthen the seal (which I have a sneaking suspicion that you're just waiting for an excuse to release it) more people would have supported you sooner.

Click to shrink...

Plan yolo is in the works azais you can't stop it!

 

[uju32]

I don't think you're making them more competent by listing how they failed. Honestly, yes, they are victims of Nemesis and the others being able to dance around the rules and infiltrate. The same can be said for Winter and Summer, but that doesn't make the White Council competent. It just makes them victims.

Click to shrink...

I dont agree. Its not about being victims, its about being undermanned and under-resourced
Wizards dont grow on trees, and take decades to recruit and train. Every loss is a big deal strategically, because even non-combat wizards fill roles like training and diplomacy and crafting that frees up fighters for the front lines.

I think its unfair to make pronouncements of incompetence based on these events.
Its like saying a doctor is incompetent when you're working them one hundred hours a week on a hospital shift thats only staffed at 30% capacity. Or calling Solars incompetent for getting murked by the Usurpation.

As things are, its taking a major conventional war in addition to the insider threat of the Peabody conspiracy to stress the Council to the point where a lot of these shenanigans have been even possible.

Without the multiple whammy of having to wholesale replace most of the seasoned veterans of their military/police with vulnerable youngsters at the same time that the personnel demands of the ongoing war have allowed conspirators to operate without other people checking their work for long periods of time, most of this would not have been possible.



As in, just to recount, at the moment:
-The Red Court are costing them active members and creating vulnerabilities for others to take advantage of
-The Peabody conspiracy is actively impeding their war effort, leaking intel to the Reds and is taking advantage of said personnel losses to sabotage the Council further
-The Fomor provided the chemical weapon that was used against them in Congo to wipe out the Warden hospital there.
-The Black Council tried the Darkhallow at the same time that Peabody+the Reds were arranging the military disasters in DB
-The Outsiders are providing active disposable troops that are largely magic-immune


To use a RL analogy, if the US had been at war with Nowhereistan, and that nation had killed 70% of the US military with the aid of WMDs, the Americans would have thrown all the rules out the window and broken out the nukes. The big ones. The Council's restraint in keeping the big rituals under lock and key is remarkable by modern nationstate standards

And note they are still expected to police the rest of the world for magic criminals; Proven Guilty saw a warlock out of Korea get executed for mass-mind control.
If they were incompetent as some appear to think, the Council would have been blown up centuries ago

Meh. That's accurate but there are certainly things they could've done to avoid it getting to this point.

Like the GateKeeper using his centuries trained Outsider Sight to spot Peabody's direct line to one by using it on the Council during any of their meetings at least once a year. Would've nipped part of this in the bud at least unless Outsiders can dodge the Outsider specialized Sight ability and I'm not willing to buy that going insane from doing such is a risk for him given that he already uses it in that capacity.

Click to shrink...

1) The Gatekeeper is limited constrained.

He is pretty strongly implied to be playing pattycakes with the Sixth Law, the one involving time.
There are places in canon where he pretty clearly has foreknowledge of events, like when he stalls during Molly's trial in Proven Guilty, and is trying not to create a paradox of some sort.


2) We dont know that his Eye works beyond the region of the Outer Gates.Just that it works in that region.
It might not work at all in normal reality, or might only work in reduced power mode.
He might not even remember what he sees, which is a persistent issue with deepscrying Outsiders.


3) Peabody's Master gave him the same Investment that was capable of contesting an Infernal Charm.
You know, the one Vito Malvora got.
The bad guys got a competence and capability upgrade.

 

[Goldfish]

[X] Fine, you'll make due with what you have

 

[BoredMan]

The Gatekeeper is limited constrained.

Click to shrink...

That isn't saying anything at all. It certainly isn't a catch all excuse since we don't have the facts there.

Edit: I didn't accept that entirely nonsensical explanation from you back when we were talking about Broken Seerer on the plane about why Rashid could totally have the time to cause problems for us and I'm not accepting it now for why he can't help his own people.

We dont know that his Eye works beyond the region of the Outer Gates.Just that it works in that region.
It might not work at all in normal reality, or might only work in reduced power mode.
He might not even remember what he sees, which is a persistent issue with deepscrying Outsiders.

Click to shrink...

Throwing a bunch of what ifs regarding an ability isn't saying anything either but sure I suppose my statement read like I knew how it was being handled by DP.

Peabody's Master gave him the same Investment that was capable of contesting an Infernal Charm.
You know, the one Vito Malvora got.
The bad guys got a competence and capability upgrade.

Click to shrink...

I have no idea what your talking about and how it relates to the Gatekeepers ability.

 

[Yog]

As I said before, if you hadn't spent several dozen posts before angrily advocating releasing every Exalted that we possibly have some clue about, before coming back and clarifying that, in this case, is just to strengthen the seal (which I have a sneaking suspicion that you're just waiting for an excuse to release it) more people would have supported you sooner.

Click to shrink...

I am advocating for release of every exaltation we meet. Eventually. Under controlled conditions, after ensuring that the exaltations go to people on our side and who we agree are good fits for said exaltations. That has always been my position. Because ultimately I believe in humanity. And yes, I am angry, because the position of "only the player character is allowed to have power, increasing anyone else's power is bad" is infuriating to me on a deep level, as is what I see as "humans fundamentally cannot be trusted with power and should be prevented from obtaining it".

In this case right now I am advocating for increasing security and stabilizing the situation I am seeing as deeply and dangerously unstable. We lack the needed infrastructure and setup to guide the release of any exaltations right now (at the very minimum: VEE and Prayer Eating up to Fulfill Prayer, isolation circle / magic able to contain an exaltation within a given spacial area, detailed information on Exaltation's targeting parameters, including knowledge of if Should the Sun not Rise is in play, and the abyssal shard safely contained and prevented from being released, or also having a suitable candidate).

And yes, I am saying this with full understanding that this might hurt my voting prospects. I do enough politics in real life. This is supposed to be escapism fiction and something that is fun. If I have to wheel and deal here by compromising my beliefs, it becomes deeply unenjoyable.

 

[firefrog600]

I am advocating for release of every exaltation we meet. Eventually. Under controlled conditions, after ensuring that the exaltations go to people on our side and who we agree are good fits for said exaltations. That has always been my position. Because ultimately I believe in humanity. And yes, I am angry, because the position of "only the player character is allowed to have power, increasing anyone else's power is bad" is infuriating to me on a deep level, as is what I see as "humans fundamentally cannot be trusted with power and should be prevented from obtaining it".

In this case right now I am advocating for increasing security and stabilizing the situation I am seeing as deeply and dangerously unstable. We lack the needed infrastructure and setup to guide the release of any exaltations right now (at the very minimum: VEE and Prayer Eating up to Fulfill Prayer, isolation circle / magic able to contain an exaltation within a given spacial area, detailed information on Exaltation's targeting parameters, including knowledge of if Should the Sun not Rise is in play, and the abyssal shard safely contained and prevented from being released, or also having a suitable candidate).

And yes, I am saying this with full understanding that this might hurt my voting prospects. I do enough politics in real life. This is supposed to be escapism fiction and something that is fun. If I have to wheel and deal here by compromising my beliefs, it becomes deeply unenjoyable.

Click to shrink...

Completely unironically you have my vote I'm all for team yolo.

 

[uju32]

That isn't saying anything at all. It certainly isn't a catch all excuse since we don't have the facts there.

Edit: I didn't accept that entirely nonsensical explanation from you back when we were talking about Broken Seerer on the plane about why Rashid could totally have the time to cause problems for us and I'm not accepting it now for why he can't help his own people.

Click to shrink...

A neurosurgeon who is doing the work of several surgeons is going to fumble; thats why work hours are limited.
A warehouse packer working overtime on an understrength shift is going to result in substandard work or accidents or both.
A wide receiver or running back who can elude 1-2 opponents is going to collapse under the impact of half a dozen.

Its not incompetence, its over-stress from a deliberate overload of enemies.
And its unfair to characterize it as an inability to work as opposed to an organized attempt at preventing them from actually applying their capabilities.


Im not sure what you are referring to with regards to Rashid/Broken Seeker.
Can you refresh my memory?
======

Throwing a bunch of what ifs regarding an ability isn't saying anything either but sure I suppose my statement read like I knew how it was being handled by DP.

Click to shrink...

Its precisely what we know as of canon.
We know from the events in Turn Coat that he retains some ability to see the future in the real world, given when he showed up to stop Harry getting in a fight with the Senior Council with the words Its not your time.

However, we dont know how much he can see at a time, or if its anywhere as effective as it is at the Outer Gates.
And it seems to be an activated ability, not an automatic one; he didnt realize that Harry was bonded to Demonreach until Harry told him he'd claimed the island.

Spoiler: Turn Coat c39

"No?" I asked, thrusting out my jaw. "Why not?"
His deep, resonant voice sounded troubled. "It is not yet your hour."
I felt my eyebrows go up. "Not yet. . . ?"
He shook his head. "Places in time. This is not the time, or the place. What you are about to do will cost lives—among them your own. I wish you no harm, young wizard. But if you will not surrender, so be it."
I narrowed my eyes at him. "And if I don't do this, an innocent man is going to die. I don't want to fight you. But I'm not going to stand by and let the Black Council kill Morgan and dance off behind the curtains so that they can do it again in the future."
He tilted his head slightly. "Black Council?"
"Whatever you want to call them," I said. "The people the traitor is working for. The ones who keep trying to stir up trouble between the powers. Who keep changing things."
The Gatekeeper's expression was unreadable. "What things?"
"The weirdness we've been seeing. Mysterious figures handing out wolf belts to FBI agents. Red Court vampires showing up to fights with Outsiders on the roster. Faerie Queens getting idealistic and trying to overthrow the natural order of the Faerie Courts. The Unseelie standing by unresponsive when they are offered an enormous insult by the vampires trespassing on their territory. The attack on Arctis Tor. I can think of half a dozen other things to go with those, and those are just the things I've personally gotten involved with." I made a broad gesture with one hand, back toward Chicago. "The world is getting weirder and scarier, and we've been so busy beating on one another that we can't even see it. Someone's behind it."
He watched me silently for a long moment. Then he said, "Yes."
I frowned at him, and then my lips parted as I realized what was going on. "And you think I'm with them."
He paused before speaking—but then, he damn near always did. "Perhaps there is reason. Add to your list of upset balances such things as open warfare erupting between the Red Court and the White Council. A Seelie crown being passed from one young Queen to the next by bloody revolt, and not the will of Titania. Wardens consorting with White Court vampires on a regular basis. College students being taught magic sufficient to allow them to become werewolves. The Little Folk, Wyld fae, banding together and organizing. The most powerful artifacts of the Church vanishing from the world—and, as some signs indicate, being kept by a wizard who does not so much as pay lip service to the faith, much less believe."
I scowled. "Yeah, well. When you put it like that."
He smiled faintly.
I held up my hand, palm out. "I swear to you, by my magic, that I am not involved with those lunatics, except for trying to put out all these fires they keep starting. And if questionable things surround me, it's because that's the kind of thing that happens when you're as outclassed as I usually am. You have to find solutions where you can, not where convenient."
The Gatekeeper pursed his lips thoughtfully, considering me.
"Look, can we agree to a short truce, to talk this out?" I said. "And so that I can keep my apprentice from drowning?"
His gaze moved past me to Molly. He frowned and lowered his staff at once. "Five minutes," he said.
"Thanks," I said. I turned around and got Molly hauled back onto the boat. She never stirred. Once she was safely snoozing on deck, I went down the dock to stand in front of the Gatekeeper. He watched me quietly, holding his staff in both hands, leaning on it gently. "So," I said. "Where's the rest of the Senior Council?"
"On the way, I should think," he said. "They'll need to secure transportation to the island in Chicago and then find their way here."
"But not you. You came through the Nevernever?"
He nodded, his eyes watching me carefully. "I know a Way. I've been here before."
"Yeah?" I shook my head. "I thought about trying to find a Way out here, but I didn't want to chance it. This isn't exactly Mayberry. I doubt it hooks up to anything pleasant in the Nevernever."
The Gatekeeper muttered something to himself in a language I didn't understand and shook his head. "I cannot decide," he said, "whether you are the most magnificent liar I have ever encountered in my life—or if you truly are as ignorant as you appear."
I looked at him for a minute. Then I hooked my thumb up at my ridiculous head bandage. "Dude."
He burst out into a laugh that was as rich and deep as his speaking voice, but . . . more, somehow. I'm not sure how to explain it. The sound of that laugh was filled with a warmth and a purity that almost made the air quiver around it, as if it had welled up from some untapped source of concentrated, unrestrained joy.
I think maybe it had been a while since Rashid had laughed.
"You," he said, barely able to speak through it. "Up in that tree. Covered with mud."
I found myself grinning at him. "Yeah. I remember."
He shook his head and actually wiped tears away from his good eye. It took him another moment or two to compose himself, but when he spoke, his living eye sparkled, an echo of his laughter. "You've endured more than most young people," he said. "And tasted more triumph than most, as well. It is a very encouraging sign that you can still laugh at yourself."
"Well, gosh," I said. "I'm just so ignorant, I don't know what else to do."
He stared at me intently. "You don't know what this place is."
"It's out of the way of innocent bystanders," I said. "And I know it better than most of the people who are on the way."
He nodded, frowning. "I suppose that is logical."
"So?"
"Hmm?"
I sighed. Wizards. "So? What is this place?"
He considered his words for a moment. "What do you think it is, beyond the obvious physical and tactical terrain?"
"Well," I said. "I know there's a ley line that comes through here. Very dark and dangerous energy. I know that there's a genius loci present and that it is real strong and isn't very friendly. I know that they tried to start up a small town here, linked with the shipping interests in the Great Lakes, but it went sour. Demonreach drove them away. Or insane, apparently."
"Demonreach?" he asked.
"Couldn't find a name on the books," I said. "So I made up my own."
"Demonreach," the Gatekeeper mused. "It's . . . certainly fitting."
"So?"
He gave me a tight smile. "It wouldn't help you for me to say anything more—except for this: one of your facts is incorrect. The ley line you speak of does not go throughthe island," he said. "This is where it wells up. The island is its source."
"Ah," I said. "Wells up from what?"
"In my opinion, that is a very useful question."
I narrowed my eyes. "And you aren't going to give me anything else."
He shrugged. "We do have other matters to discuss."
I glanced back at my unconscious friends. "Yeah. We do."
"I am willing to accept that your intentions are noble," he said. "But your actions could set into motion a catastrophic chain of events."
I shrugged. "I don't know about that," I said. "What I do know is that you don't kill a man for a crime he didn't commit. And when someone else tries to do it, you stop them."
"And you think that this will stop them?" the Gatekeeper asked.
"I think it's my best shot."
"You won't succeed," he said. "If you press ahead, it will end in violence. People will die, you amongst them."
"You don't even know what I have in mind," I said.
"You're laying a trap for the traitor," he said. "You're trying to force him to act and reveal himself."
A lesser man might have felt less clever than he had a moment before. "Oh."
"And if I can work it out," the Gatekeeper said, "then so can the traitor."
"Well, duh," I said. "But he'll show up anyway. He can't afford to do anything else."
"And he'll come ready," the Gatekeeper said. "He'll choose his moment."
"Let him. I've got other assets."
Then he did something strange. He exhaled slowly, his living eye closing. The gleaming steel eye tracked back and forth, as if looking at something, though I could only tell it was moving because of the twitches of his other eyelid. A moment later, the Gatekeeper opened his eye and said, "The chances that you'll survive it are minimal."
"Yeah?" I asked him. I stepped around him and hopped off the dock and onto the island, immediately feeling the connection with Demonreach as I turned to face him. "How about now?"
He frowned at me, and then repeated the little ritual.
Then he made a choking sound. "Blood of the Prophet," he swore, opening his eyes to stare at me. "You . . . you've claimed this place as a sanctum?"
"Uh-huh."
"How?"
"I punched it in the nose. Now we're friends," I said.
The Gatekeeper shook his head slowly. "Harry," he said, his voice weary. "Harry, you don't know what you've done."
"I've given myself a fighting chance."
"Yes. Today," he replied. "But there is always a price for knowledge. Always."
His left eyelid twitched as he spoke, making the scars that framed the steel orb quiver.
"But it will be me paying the price," I said. "Not everyone else."
"Yes," he said quietly. We were both silent for several minutes, standing in the rain.
"Been longer than five minutes," I said. "How do you want it to be?"
The Gatekeeper shook his head. "May I offer you two pieces of advice?"
I nodded.
"First," he said, "do not tap into the power of this place's well. You are years away from being able to handle such a thing without being altered by it."
"I hadn't planned on touching it," I said.
"Second," he said, "you must understand that regardless of the outcome of this confrontation, someone will die. Preferably, it would be the traitor—but if he is killed rather than captured, no one will be willing to accept your explanation of events, no matter how accurate it may be. Morgan will be executed. Odds are excellent that you will be as well."
"I'm sure as hell not doing this for me."
He nodded.
"Don't suppose you'd be willing to lend a hand?"
"I cannot set foot on the island," he said.
"Why not?"
"Because this place holds a grudge," he said.
I suddenly thought of the drag-thumplimp of the island's manifest spirit.
Damn.
He turned to the dock behind him and flicked a hand at the air. A neat, perfectly circular portal to the Nevernever appeared without a whisper or flicker of wasted power. The Gatekeeper gave me a nod. "Your friends will awaken in a moment. I will do what I can to help you."
"Thank you," I said.
He shook his head. "Do not. It may be that true kindness would have been to kill you today."
Then he stepped through the portal and was gone. It vanished an instant later. I stood there in the rain and watched the others begin to stir. Then I sighed and walked back to them, to help them up and explain what was going on.
We had to get moving. The day wasn't getting any younger, and there were a lot of things to do before nightfall.

Thats what we know.
Its of course, complicated by the fact that all wizards develop a degree of precognition as they get older according to Luccio.
How much, and how controllable, probably differs on a case by case basis.

The summary still is: the Gatekeeper is constrained, in time, knowledge and resources.
And frankly, he has a fulltime job on top of that.
A critically important one at that, one where the only help he could offer Harry during Cold Days was advice and perspective.

I have no idea what your talking about and how it relates to the Gatekeepers ability.

Click to shrink...

Citation:

Samuel Peabody again, this time accompanied by a vision of a mild-mannered bespectacled balding fellow with a salt and pepper, save for the fact that his eyes behind those spectacles are dead, a corpse-gaze looking out of a living face unseen by all, even the wisest. Behind those eyes his master watches, the dark that eats the stars, the shadow inside.

Ashraaah's work

It's the same one who had given Vittorio Malvora his veil against true-sight, a taste like kerosene and rotten meat on the tongue. The irony does not escape you that in trying to hide his pawns he has actually revealed the connection between them, it is just hard to hear the satisfaction over the gibbering horror of someone that highly placed being a servant of not just the Red Court, old and wicked as it may be but Things Beyond.

Click to shrink...

When we first met Vito Malvora at the Raith party, we looked at him with Hellscry Chakra and he was warded against it.
We couldnt see through it; we had to use a Crown question.
Peabody was using the same thing; thats how we recognized him.

If it fucks with Exalted Perception charms, it probably interferes with wizard scrying.
It kinda has to, else one of Wizard Mai's guard hounds would have sniffed it on him a long time ago.

 

[DragonParadox]

Citation:

When we first met Vito Malvora at the Raith party, we looked at him with Hellscry Chakra and he was warded against it.
We couldnt see through it; we had to use a Crown question.
Peabody was using the same thing; thats how we recognized him.

If it fucks with Exalted Perception charms, it probably interferes with wizard scrying.
It kinda has to, else one of Wizard Mai's guard hounds would have sniffed it on him a long time ago.

Click to shrink...

Oh yeah, Peabody has to have some very good wards on him, though it should be noted all the warlocks here would have to be protected to some degree. Headquarters is the kind of place where you find not just the highest number of semi-passive protections like the hounds, but also the greatest number of wardens.

 

[BronzeTongue]

A neurosurgeon who is doing the work of several surgeons is going to fumble; thats why work hours are limited.
A warehouse packer working overtime on an understrength shift is going to result in substandard work or accidents or both.
A wide receiver or running back who can elude 1-2 opponents is going to collapse under the impact of half a dozen.

Its not incompetence, its over-stress from a deliberate overload of enemies.
And its unfair to characterize it as an inability to work as opposed to an organized attempt at preventing them from actually applying their capabilities.


Im not sure what you are referring to with regards to Rashid/Broken Seeker.
Can you refresh my memory?
======

Its precisely what we know as of canon.
We know from the events in Turn Coat that he retains some ability to see the future in the real world, given when he showed up to stop Harry getting in a fight with the Senior Council with the words Its not your time.

However, we dont know how much he can see at a time, or if its anywhere as effective as it is at the Outer Gates.
And it seems to be an activated ability, not an automatic one; he didnt realize that Harry was bonded to Demonreach until Harry told him he'd claimed the island.

Spoiler: Turn Coat c39

"No?" I asked, thrusting out my jaw. "Why not?"
His deep, resonant voice sounded troubled. "It is not yet your hour."
I felt my eyebrows go up. "Not yet. . . ?"
He shook his head. "Places in time. This is not the time, or the place. What you are about to do will cost lives—among them your own. I wish you no harm, young wizard. But if you will not surrender, so be it."
I narrowed my eyes at him. "And if I don't do this, an innocent man is going to die. I don't want to fight you. But I'm not going to stand by and let the Black Council kill Morgan and dance off behind the curtains so that they can do it again in the future."
He tilted his head slightly. "Black Council?"
"Whatever you want to call them," I said. "The people the traitor is working for. The ones who keep trying to stir up trouble between the powers. Who keep changing things."
The Gatekeeper's expression was unreadable. "What things?"
"The weirdness we've been seeing. Mysterious figures handing out wolf belts to FBI agents. Red Court vampires showing up to fights with Outsiders on the roster. Faerie Queens getting idealistic and trying to overthrow the natural order of the Faerie Courts. The Unseelie standing by unresponsive when they are offered an enormous insult by the vampires trespassing on their territory. The attack on Arctis Tor. I can think of half a dozen other things to go with those, and those are just the things I've personally gotten involved with." I made a broad gesture with one hand, back toward Chicago. "The world is getting weirder and scarier, and we've been so busy beating on one another that we can't even see it. Someone's behind it."
He watched me silently for a long moment. Then he said, "Yes."
I frowned at him, and then my lips parted as I realized what was going on. "And you think I'm with them."
He paused before speaking—but then, he damn near always did. "Perhaps there is reason. Add to your list of upset balances such things as open warfare erupting between the Red Court and the White Council. A Seelie crown being passed from one young Queen to the next by bloody revolt, and not the will of Titania. Wardens consorting with White Court vampires on a regular basis. College students being taught magic sufficient to allow them to become werewolves. The Little Folk, Wyld fae, banding together and organizing. The most powerful artifacts of the Church vanishing from the world—and, as some signs indicate, being kept by a wizard who does not so much as pay lip service to the faith, much less believe."
I scowled. "Yeah, well. When you put it like that."
He smiled faintly.
I held up my hand, palm out. "I swear to you, by my magic, that I am not involved with those lunatics, except for trying to put out all these fires they keep starting. And if questionable things surround me, it's because that's the kind of thing that happens when you're as outclassed as I usually am. You have to find solutions where you can, not where convenient."
The Gatekeeper pursed his lips thoughtfully, considering me.
"Look, can we agree to a short truce, to talk this out?" I said. "And so that I can keep my apprentice from drowning?"
His gaze moved past me to Molly. He frowned and lowered his staff at once. "Five minutes," he said.
"Thanks," I said. I turned around and got Molly hauled back onto the boat. She never stirred. Once she was safely snoozing on deck, I went down the dock to stand in front of the Gatekeeper. He watched me quietly, holding his staff in both hands, leaning on it gently. "So," I said. "Where's the rest of the Senior Council?"
"On the way, I should think," he said. "They'll need to secure transportation to the island in Chicago and then find their way here."
"But not you. You came through the Nevernever?"
He nodded, his eyes watching me carefully. "I know a Way. I've been here before."
"Yeah?" I shook my head. "I thought about trying to find a Way out here, but I didn't want to chance it. This isn't exactly Mayberry. I doubt it hooks up to anything pleasant in the Nevernever."
The Gatekeeper muttered something to himself in a language I didn't understand and shook his head. "I cannot decide," he said, "whether you are the most magnificent liar I have ever encountered in my life—or if you truly are as ignorant as you appear."
I looked at him for a minute. Then I hooked my thumb up at my ridiculous head bandage. "Dude."
He burst out into a laugh that was as rich and deep as his speaking voice, but . . . more, somehow. I'm not sure how to explain it. The sound of that laugh was filled with a warmth and a purity that almost made the air quiver around it, as if it had welled up from some untapped source of concentrated, unrestrained joy.
I think maybe it had been a while since Rashid had laughed.
"You," he said, barely able to speak through it. "Up in that tree. Covered with mud."
I found myself grinning at him. "Yeah. I remember."
He shook his head and actually wiped tears away from his good eye. It took him another moment or two to compose himself, but when he spoke, his living eye sparkled, an echo of his laughter. "You've endured more than most young people," he said. "And tasted more triumph than most, as well. It is a very encouraging sign that you can still laugh at yourself."
"Well, gosh," I said. "I'm just so ignorant, I don't know what else to do."
He stared at me intently. "You don't know what this place is."
"It's out of the way of innocent bystanders," I said. "And I know it better than most of the people who are on the way."
He nodded, frowning. "I suppose that is logical."
"So?"
"Hmm?"
I sighed. Wizards. "So? What is this place?"
He considered his words for a moment. "What do you think it is, beyond the obvious physical and tactical terrain?"
"Well," I said. "I know there's a ley line that comes through here. Very dark and dangerous energy. I know that there's a genius loci present and that it is real strong and isn't very friendly. I know that they tried to start up a small town here, linked with the shipping interests in the Great Lakes, but it went sour. Demonreach drove them away. Or insane, apparently."
"Demonreach?" he asked.
"Couldn't find a name on the books," I said. "So I made up my own."
"Demonreach," the Gatekeeper mused. "It's . . . certainly fitting."
"So?"
He gave me a tight smile. "It wouldn't help you for me to say anything more—except for this: one of your facts is incorrect. The ley line you speak of does not go throughthe island," he said. "This is where it wells up. The island is its source."
"Ah," I said. "Wells up from what?"
"In my opinion, that is a very useful question."
I narrowed my eyes. "And you aren't going to give me anything else."
He shrugged. "We do have other matters to discuss."
I glanced back at my unconscious friends. "Yeah. We do."
"I am willing to accept that your intentions are noble," he said. "But your actions could set into motion a catastrophic chain of events."
I shrugged. "I don't know about that," I said. "What I do know is that you don't kill a man for a crime he didn't commit. And when someone else tries to do it, you stop them."
"And you think that this will stop them?" the Gatekeeper asked.
"I think it's my best shot."
"You won't succeed," he said. "If you press ahead, it will end in violence. People will die, you amongst them."
"You don't even know what I have in mind," I said.
"You're laying a trap for the traitor," he said. "You're trying to force him to act and reveal himself."
A lesser man might have felt less clever than he had a moment before. "Oh."
"And if I can work it out," the Gatekeeper said, "then so can the traitor."
"Well, duh," I said. "But he'll show up anyway. He can't afford to do anything else."
"And he'll come ready," the Gatekeeper said. "He'll choose his moment."
"Let him. I've got other assets."
Then he did something strange. He exhaled slowly, his living eye closing. The gleaming steel eye tracked back and forth, as if looking at something, though I could only tell it was moving because of the twitches of his other eyelid. A moment later, the Gatekeeper opened his eye and said, "The chances that you'll survive it are minimal."
"Yeah?" I asked him. I stepped around him and hopped off the dock and onto the island, immediately feeling the connection with Demonreach as I turned to face him. "How about now?"
He frowned at me, and then repeated the little ritual.
Then he made a choking sound. "Blood of the Prophet," he swore, opening his eyes to stare at me. "You . . . you've claimed this place as a sanctum?"
"Uh-huh."
"How?"
"I punched it in the nose. Now we're friends," I said.
The Gatekeeper shook his head slowly. "Harry," he said, his voice weary. "Harry, you don't know what you've done."
"I've given myself a fighting chance."
"Yes. Today," he replied. "But there is always a price for knowledge. Always."
His left eyelid twitched as he spoke, making the scars that framed the steel orb quiver.
"But it will be me paying the price," I said. "Not everyone else."
"Yes," he said quietly. We were both silent for several minutes, standing in the rain.
"Been longer than five minutes," I said. "How do you want it to be?"
The Gatekeeper shook his head. "May I offer you two pieces of advice?"
I nodded.
"First," he said, "do not tap into the power of this place's well. You are years away from being able to handle such a thing without being altered by it."
"I hadn't planned on touching it," I said.
"Second," he said, "you must understand that regardless of the outcome of this confrontation, someone will die. Preferably, it would be the traitor—but if he is killed rather than captured, no one will be willing to accept your explanation of events, no matter how accurate it may be. Morgan will be executed. Odds are excellent that you will be as well."
"I'm sure as hell not doing this for me."
He nodded.
"Don't suppose you'd be willing to lend a hand?"
"I cannot set foot on the island," he said.
"Why not?"
"Because this place holds a grudge," he said.
I suddenly thought of the drag-thumplimp of the island's manifest spirit.
Damn.
He turned to the dock behind him and flicked a hand at the air. A neat, perfectly circular portal to the Nevernever appeared without a whisper or flicker of wasted power. The Gatekeeper gave me a nod. "Your friends will awaken in a moment. I will do what I can to help you."
"Thank you," I said.
He shook his head. "Do not. It may be that true kindness would have been to kill you today."
Then he stepped through the portal and was gone. It vanished an instant later. I stood there in the rain and watched the others begin to stir. Then I sighed and walked back to them, to help them up and explain what was going on.
We had to get moving. The day wasn't getting any younger, and there were a lot of things to do before nightfall.

Thats what we know.
Its of course, complicated by the fact that all wizards develop a degree of precognition as they get older according to Luccio.
How much, and how controllable, probably differs on a case by case basis.

The summary still is: the Gatekeeper is constrained, in time, knowledge and resources.
And frankly, he has a fulltime job on top of that.
A critically important one at that, one where the only help he could offer Harry during Cold Days was advice and perspective.


Citation:

When we first met Vito Malvora at the Raith party, we looked at him with Hellscry Chakra and he was warded against it.
We couldnt see through it; we had to use a Crown question.
Peabody was using the same thing; thats how we recognized him.

If it fucks with Exalted Perception charms, it probably interferes with wizard scrying.
It kinda has to, else one of Wizard Mai's guard hounds would have sniffed it on him a long time ago.

Click to shrink...

It's the white council's job to be good at this. If they're understaffed it was their responsibility to get more help. If not through wizards then through other means.

More broadly, we have been told they wouldn't be helpless without our presence but they haven't really shown much of that yet. Everyone at every level has failed as hard as they could fail. Two senior council members went to investigate the ward problems, resulting in one being captured without the other's notice before leaving the country without a word to anyone.

Yes there was influence involved in that, but it's literally their job to identify and hunt down the sources of black magic. All we're doing is moving where precisely they catastrophically failed their jobs around.

The enemy had a lot going for them, but the way the buffs were handed out to the opposition without any similar changes on the council side paint a damning picture of their competence in the quest. This isn't just a single slip, it's an unbroken pattern of abject failure.

It's possible to do everything right and still lose but so far they don't seem to meet that bar. I'd have an easier time believing they aren't total screw ups if they stopped screwing everything up.

I want to be wrong about this because the council is very important to the mortal world for multiple reasons, but they've just about exhausted my patience.

 

[DragonParadox]

One thing you guys should keep in mind is where you found Morgan and Co, hunting down Red Court Elders. That is not something they would be doing in canon. Rather than the canon situation where wizards were falling like flies and Senior Council wizards were being replaced every few years the war with the Reds has actually been going well for the council, but that has left them uncovered in other areas.

 

[BoredMan]

And its unfair to characterize it as an inability to work as opposed to an organized attempt at preventing them from actually applying their capabilities.

Click to shrink...

You lost me. What I suggested would require an hour a year or so. If that's too much of an ask then he's essentially a non-factor as far as the WC is concerned.

Im not sure what you are referring to with regards to Rashid/Broken Seeker.
Can you refresh my memory?

Click to shrink...

Earlier you argued that Rashid could have the time and ability to cause problems for us if we killed BS on the plane after killing Arianna but also doesn't have the time or ability to help the WC in other matters like the traitors or in this case an hour or so a year to check for Outsider nonsense.

You have a tendency to argue as if the absence of evidence is somehow evidence and it makes your arguments indigestible.

However, we dont know how much he can see at a time, or if its anywhere as effective as it is at the Outer Gates.

Click to shrink...

The summary still is: the Gatekeeper is constrained, in time, knowledge and resources.
And frankly, he has a fulltime job on top of that.
A critically important one at that, one where the only help he could offer Harry during Cold Days was advice and perspective.

Click to shrink...

Your repeating yourself for no discernable reason here but go off I guess.

If it fucks with Exalted Perception charms, it probably interferes with wizard scrying.
It kinda has to, else one of Wizard Mai's guard hounds would have sniffed it on him a long time ago.

Click to shrink...

Now I recall what your talking about. I registered that as Rashid simply not checking as opposed to him actually looking and not finding anything.

The problem with this is, if the Outsiders have this sort of thing in their arsenal and Rashid's job requires that he can look past this sort of thing but he can't, then it doesn't make sense that he can do his job at all.

I'm not buying the location dependent ability excuse as the ability seems to be tied to his false eye. The fake eye allows him to detect even the presence of Nemesis. There's no way this guy has access to better veils than the guy who is noted to be the best there even is at remaining hidden and infiltration.

 

[DragonParadox]

Vote closed.

Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 3, 2024 at 12:50 PM, finished with 41 posts and 7 votes.

• ---

  7 people have voted

  [X] Fine, you'll make due with what you have

  • Yog
  • Ivar
  • BoredMan
  • uju32
  • NinjaOfOrthanc
  • Azais
  • Goldfish

 

[uju32]

It's the white council's job to be good at this. If they're understaffed it was their responsibility to get more help. If not through wizards then through other means.

More broadly, we have been told they wouldn't be helpless without our presence but they haven't really shown much of that yet. Everyone at every level has failed as hard as they could fail. Two senior council members went to investigate the ward problems, resulting in one being captured without the other's notice before leaving the country without a word to anyone.

Yes there was influence involved in that, but it's literally their job to identify and hunt down the sources of black magic. All we're doing is moving where precisely they catastrophically failed their jobs around.

The enemy had a lot going for them, but the way the buffs were handed out to the opposition without any similar changes on the council side paint a damning picture of their competence in the quest. This isn't just a single slip, it's an unbroken pattern of abject failure.

It's possible to do everything right and still lose but so far they don't seem to meet that bar. I'd have an easier time believing they aren't total screw ups if they stopped screwing everything up.

I want to be wrong about this because the council is very important to the mortal world for multiple reasons, but they've just about exhausted my patience.

Click to shrink...

New help does not grow on trees.
It takes decades to train new wizards to basic competence. A century plus to get a mature one in the flower of his or her power and knowledge.The losses of Dead Beat are going to reverberate for decades to come.

They have actively recruited and trained a lot of kids as replacements, including uncomfortably young ones (the Trailman Twins were 16 when they died in canon); many if not most of the new recruits that brought the Wardens back from the 60+ survivors of Dead Beat to the almost 300 of Turn Coat were new kids. But those kids are still decades off growing into their power.

In the meantime, they husband what they have.

=====
Well yah.
If we'd shown up and everything had been resolved it would certainly paint a great picture, but there would be no story or need for two Exalts here.

IC, half the Senior Council isnt here; we havent heard anything of Rashid or Listens to Wind or Martha Liberty.
The upper tier of elder wizards like Montjoy, Gomez, Schneider and Klaus and all the other Senior Council candidates mentioned in Summer Knight arent here either.

This entire event had been on for maybe an hour, an hour plus at the point when we entered the Halls; there are wizards and wizard detachments who wont get the message anything is happening for the rest of the day.
In Dead Beat, Harry didnt find out about Palermo, Congo et al for three days.

=====
I dont agree. There's a lot of stuff that looks different when you are handling it, as opposed to from the outside.
Note how we find out that the point of the geomancy was less to collapse the Halls and more to power the sense of chaos that was pervading the Halls and empower effects running off it?

Or how we now know this is an attempt at an internal coup d'etat with a fallback option of murdering a bunch of elder wizards who represent a significant part of the Council's combat strength and diplomatic influence?
I suspect shit will look significantly different in the morning, when we have a better grasp of the full picture.

 

[Yog]

IC, half the Senior Council isnt here; we havent heard anything of Rashid or Listens to Wind or Martha Liberty.
The upper tier of elder wizards like Montjoy, Gomez, Schneider and Klaus and all the other Senior Council candidates mentioned in Summer Knight arent here either.

This entire event had been on for maybe an hour, an hour plus at the point when we entered the Halls; there are wizards and wizard detachments who wont get the message anything is happening for the rest of the day.
In Dead Beat, Harry didnt find out about Palermo, Congo et al for three days.

Click to shrink...

The problem here is that this isn't a premeditated attack decades in the making. This is True Magi panicking at being discovered. We have the initiative. We noticed them and are carrying out immediate suppression attack. Most of them are out of place, don't know anything is going on yet, and none of them were prepared for this to happen. Peabody certainly didn't send the patsies to us planning for their discovery.

If this is the panicked flailing, then logically with a week worth of planning, they would have completely and utterly defeated the council with minimal casualties among themselves.

Extreme risk aversion carries you only so far.

 

[DragonParadox]

The problem here is that this isn't a premeditated attack decades in the making. This is True Magi panicking at being discovered. We have the initiative. We noticed them and are carrying out immediate suppression attack. Most of them are out of place, don't know anything is going on yet, and none of them were prepared for this to happen. Peabody certainly didn't send the patsies to us planning for their discovery.

If this is the panicked flailing, then logically with a week worth of planning, they would have completely and utterly defeated the council with minimal casualties among themselves.

Extreme risk aversion carries you only so far.

Click to shrink...

Orr... you guys threw a handgrenade in everyone's plans since as an infernal you are outside of fate.

 

[BronzeTongue]

One thing you guys should keep in mind is where you found Morgan and Co, hunting down Red Court Elders. That is not something they would be doing in canon. Rather than the canon situation where wizards were falling like flies and Senior Council wizards were being replaced every few years the war with the Reds has actually been going well for the council, but that has left them uncovered in other areas.

Click to shrink...

Weren't they out there exposed because the traitors gave them up? That's why the thing with the water spirit happened and presumably why there was a red duke getting ready for an ascension feast practically on top of them.

That aside, the infiltration is older than the war and everything they've done so far would work fine in peacetime too. The wizards just haven't been on the ball about anything from the bottom to the top this entire time.

It's possible to act with competence and still lose, but I can't recall them demonstrating anything like good decision making skills anywhere we can see them even with the information they have. Every proactive step has been into a trap. Every reaction is either lethargic or chaotic. Nobody is checking anyone's work.

If we were to make a list of good decisions they've made given the information they had what would go on it? Letting baby wardens run around vampire infested halls? Hell, letting any member go off without some pre established plan for keeping in contact?

I mean, they sent their best illusionist and a warder after some people using illusions to fake a vampire attack while they tore down the wards with the real deal, only for the illusionist to get vanished and the warder sent on a wild goose chase to another country.

It looks a lot like the council didn't need to be sabotaged that much because it has the strategic integrity of a football riot.

 

[Azais]

@DragonParadox sorry to ask this, since you're already explaining some things, but when this event is completely over, could you give an unbiased view of this whole mess? A lot of people, including me, really don't get the point you seem to be trying to make with the explanations and we're just seeing the incompetence of both WC and BC, one for having so many weaknesses that it seems like it would collapse with a gust of wind without us and the other for being an idiot for waiting so long when it seems like they could have won decades ago.

This whole arc has been smelling like general stupidity to everyone for a long time.

 

[uju32]

You lost me. What I suggested would require an hour a year or so. If that's too much of an ask then he's essentially a non-factor as far as the WC is concerned.

Click to shrink...

It wouldnt.
There's a minimum of five hundred wizards on the Council, which is the number we see make the time to show up for Morgan's trial in cano. More realistically, you are looking at several thousand of them, anywhere from 6-20k.

There's no way he can reasonably expect to scan even a significant fraction of the wizard population given half a day.
And thats with everybody synching their calendars to show up, with the security risk that entails.

Furthermore, as I pointed out, some of the magical protections on these guys are good enough to fuck with Exalted perception charms. At that point, all bets are off.
This isnt the Outer Gates, and he wouldnt have the fucking huge scanners there to piggyback off.

This is not to say that he isnt suspicious of Peabody; there was a suggestive quote in Turn Coat during Morgan's trial:

Spoiler: Turn Coat Morgans trial

"Other than this group," I said, "I believe it is highly unlikely that anyone from Edinburgh should have randomly arrived at the Way in Chicago. Given that the group was indeed assaulted by creatures with the support of a wizard of Council-level skill at that meeting, I believe it is reasonable to state that the killer took the bait." I turned, drawing out the last photo with a dramatic flourish worthy of Poirot, and held it up so that the crowd could see it while I said, "So why don't you tell us what you were doing in the Chicago area last night . . . Wizard Peabody?"
If I'd had a keyboard player lurking nearby for a soap-opera organ sting, it would have been perfect.
Everyone on the Senior Council except Ebenezar and, for some reason, the Gatekeeper, turned to stare slack-jawed at Peabody.

What that signifies, I dont know. But it was pretty clearly signposted.

Earlier you argued that Rashid could have the time and ability to cause problems for us if we killed BS on the plane after killing Arianna but also doesn't have the time or ability to help the WC in other matters like the traitors or in this case an hour or so a year to check for Outsider nonsense.

You have a tendency to argue as if the absence of evidence is somehow evidence and it makes your arguments indigestible.

Click to shrink...

Can I PLEASE get a citation?

Your repeating yourself for no discernable reason here but go off I guess.

Click to shrink...

Now I recall what your talking about. I registered that as Rashid simply not checking as opposed to him actually looking and not finding anything.

The problem with this is, if the Outsiders have this sort of thing in their arsenal and Rashid's job requires that he can look past this sort of thing but he can't, then it doesn't make sense that he can do his job at all.

I'm not buying the location dependent ability excuse as the ability seems to be tied to his false eye. The fake eye allows him to detect even the presence of Nemesis. There's no way this guy has access to better veils than the guy who is noted to be the best there even is at remaining hidden and infiltration.

Click to shrink...

Rashid is the Gatekeeper, and he normally uses the Eye at the Outer Gates.
Which are themselves a fuckhuge magical scanner, a CAT machine as Dresden oldfashionedly calls it.
You may not buy it, but thats the canon explanation:

Spoiler: Cold Days Harry and Rashid

The Gatekeeper lowered his hood.
He had short hair that was still thick and gleamed silver, but his features were weathered, as if from long years under harsh sunlight. His skin was paler now, but there was still something of the desert on his skin. His face was long, his brows still dark and full. He had a double scar on his left eyebrow and cheek, two long lines that went straight down, a lot like mine, only deeper and thicker and all the way to his jawline, and they were much softer with long years of healing. Maybe he hadn't been as good at flinching as I was, because he'd lost the eye beneath the scar. One of his eyes was nearly black, it was so dark. The other had been replaced with . . .
I looked around me. Yes, definitely. The other eye had been replaced with the crystalline material that was identical to that which had been used to create the gates and the walls around them.
"Steel," I said.
"Pardon?" he asked.
"Your, uh, other eye. It was steel before."
"I'm sure it looked like steel," he said. "The disguise is necessary when I'm not here."
"Your job is so secret, your false eye gets a disguise?" I asked. "Guess I see why you miss Council meetings."
He inclined his head and ruffled his fingers through mussed, tousled hood-hair. "It can be quiet for years here, sometimes. And others . . ." He spread his hands. "But they need a good eye here to be sure that the things that must remain outside do not slip in unnoticed."
"Inside the wounded," I guessed. "Or returning troops. Or medics."
"You've become aware of the adversary," he said, his tone one of firm approval. "Excellent. I was certain your particular pursuits would get you killed long before you got a chance to learn."
"How can I help?" I asked him.
He leaned his head back and then a slow smile reasserted itself on his face. "I know something of the responsibilities you've chosen to take up," he said, "to say nothing of the problems you've created for yourself that you haven't found out about yet. And still, in the face of learning that our world spins out its days under siege, you offer to help me? I think you and I could be friends."
"Wait," I said. "What problems? I haven't been trying to create problems."
"Oh," he said, waving a hand. "You've danced about in the shadows at the edge of life now, young man. That's no small thing, to go into those shadows and come back again—you've no idea the kind of attention you've attracted."
"Oh," I said. "Good. Because the pace was starting to slow down so much that I was getting bored."
At that, Rashid tilted his head back and laughed. "Would you be offended if I called you Harry?"
"No. Because it's my name."
"Exactly," he said. "Harry, I know you have questions. I can field a very few before I go."
I nodded, thinking. "Okay," I said. "First, how do you know if the adversary has . . . infested someone?"
"Experience," he said. "Decades of it. The Sight can help, but . . ." Rashid hesitated. I recognized it instantly, the hiccup in one's thoughts when one stumbled over a truly hideous memory gained with the Sight, like I'd had with—
Ugh.
—the naagloshii.
"I don't recommend making a regular practice of it," he continued. "It's an art, not a skill, and it takes time. Time, or a bit of questionable attention from the Fates and a ridiculously enormous tool." He tapped a finger against his false eye.
I blinked, even though he didn't, and looked up at the massive gates stretching overhead. "Hell's bells. The gates . . . they're . ..some kind of spiritual CAT scanner?"
"Among many other things," he said. "But it's one of their functions, yes. Mostly it means that the adversary cannot use such tactics effectively here. As long as the Gatekeeper is vigilant, it rarely tries." The horns sounded again, and the muscles in his jaw tensed. "Next question."
I hate trying to be smart under time pressure. "This," I said, pointing up at the gates. "What the hell? How long has this attack been going on?"

He can detect Outsider infestation at the Outer Gates.
The Hollow Man is not Nemesis, not-quite an Outsider either, and he isnt infesting Peabody, he just has a link to him.

Peabody is not at the Gates, so the Gates cannot be used to scan him, just the Eye, which is a significantly smaller, and presumably much less powerful tool.

 

[Degorium]

If this is the panicked flailing, then logically with a week worth of planning, they would have completely and utterly defeated the council with minimal casualties among themselves.

Extreme risk aversion carries you only so far.

Click to shrink...

It looks a lot like the council didn't need to be sabotaged that much because it has the strategic integrity of a football riot.

Click to shrink...

In the end it probably comes down to the fact that some of the warlocks were trying to become a successor organization they were trying for a coup d'etat rather than destruction. To become a successor State rather than let it all go to chaos.

In the end the white Council reeks of not actually being an organization they're essentially a religious group with a militant arm for how organized they are. Their General elitist practices and nepotisms whether political or actual cripples their effectiveness in a series of ways.

The white Council as a whole is a completely near civilian entity and it shows they have enough Effectiveness to perform essentially their religious duties in upholding the seven laws and little else and the first time they have to militarize in the modern day they flail immediately the fact they have infiltrators and spies doesn't help.

These infiltrators on the other hand knew what they were signing up for probably were preparing for a scenario where they could take over the council for quite some time and then had to act on it immediately and because they were essentially prepared kind of not really but kind of they had a good job.

Though this was kind of what I was fearing it was probably a couple hundred Pages back at this point that the white Council as a whole is not a particularly effective organization because they didn't need to be and they honestly don't really attempt to be in a lot of cases. They have their religious doctrine that they enforce and their widespread influence and they have essentially been coasting on that for the last millennia.

 

[BoredMan]

It wouldnt.
There's a minimum of five hundred wizards on the Council, which is the number we see make the time to show up for Morgan's trial in cano. More realistically, you are looking at several thousand of them, anywhere from 6-20k.

Click to shrink...

My bad. I should've clarified. I thought it went without saying so I didn't.

I was referring to the senior council and Peabody since he manages notes on their meetings and whatnot. Obviously he can't scan the entirety of the WC but he wouldn't need to. Just the very higher ups would be sensible and wouldn't require more than an hour a year.

This isnt the Outer Gates, and he wouldnt have the fucking huge scanners there to piggyback off.

Click to shrink...

As far as I can tell your making an assumption here.

You may not buy it, but thats the canon explanation:

Click to shrink...

You've come to the conclusion that one is dependent on the other for some reason. That's what I'm not buying.

That was never stated in canon period.

The Hollow Man is not Nemesis, not-quite an Outsider either, and he isnt infesting Peabody, he just has a link to him.

Click to shrink...

If the false eye works for the best infiltrator in setting it should work for him here. I imagine that some Outsiders employ similar tactics not possessing but maintaining a link/backdoor to someones head and the Hollow-man has ties to the Outside.


Edit: I'll get a citation for the conversation we had back then.

 

[DragonParadox]

Hunting the Damned ​

18th of February 2007 A.D.

"Fine!" You try to keep the anger out of your voice, you really do. From the looks in Tiffany's eyes she at least knows what's up. How could the council have allowed themselves to be broken so utterly? Two senior wizards missing, the Captain of the Wardens enchanted and hunting the Merlin... "Lydia, can you make your way to Paris?"

"I've been to France before but not Paris," your friend starts

"Ain't missing much," McCoy answers raising his staff, his not-Black-staff. For the first time you wonder if Harry knows that about his mentor, it might not be polite to ask. "Good luck Hoss. I'd say give'm hell, but he's too used to that, give'm wizard's fire right and proper?"

"So Tiffany, looks like we're meeting an old acquaintance. Any advice?"

"Shoot him the moment you see him and keep shooting," she tells a grim-faced Olivia. "It won't kill him, but it will at least force him to choose between spending time warding against bullets or letting his passive defenses wear down."

Truth be told you're not sure where to start looking for the Fallen. Another question? Then you'd have to explain that as well...

"Follow," Ancient Mai motioned. Is it just you or is she moving a little more spryly, leaning on her staff less. As you get to the steps up to the next level it becomes clear it's definitely not you. Magic gathers in the air, so thick it smells of cherry blossoms even to unenhanced senses senses until far from ancient the woman leading the way seems to be in the prime of her years and practically glowing with it.

Sneaking a look over your shoulder... yup Harry definitely noticed. If you all make it out of this fine there's no way he's not getting teased, if not by you than by Tiffany.

By now you had come to what are obviously her quarters. Behind ornate doors to match the rest of the wing cranes and leaping fish sketched in black and white onto paper screens are the only relief from stern minimalism. Perhaps it's to the best that this place doesn't have much in the way of distractions since she's looking for something, something small.

The answer as it turns out is silvery mirror that unfolds like a fan in defiance of mantel's nature and a whistle that obviously came from the same forging, flowing ideograms set among feathered spirals.

"You have seen the one we hunt, yes?" The old witch's voice too had grown less harsh, though her words are no less urgent. "Blow on this and look in the mirror, it will wake the spirits of air in the Halls and and lead you right to them."

"Unless he kills them all," Morgan grumbles. "As soon trust larks with letters from the front."

"A void is as easy to track as a target of flesh and blood.," she shrugs.

As it turns out she is right. When Tiffany blows the whistle causing no audible sound, at least any with ears off flesh, the mirror shows a dizzying array of corridors and steps that ends in a kind of grey void midway up an articulated mental ladder of the sort that looks rather odd given the rest of the decor, until you realize it is cold iron marked with runes against fey incursion.

"What could be possibly want to..." Wizard Mai, no longer quite ancient, at least in the moment frowns at the sight. "The Finger..."

"And here I thought he wasn't going to give us anything," Harry jokes, causing Olivia to muffle her laughter poorly while you do not bother controlling a smile.

"The Finger of St. Roch was last active in November during what we later learned was the opening of Sanctuary's Gates. It is a very potent artifact, though one that that moves in its time and not ours, some say in the time of Him in Heaven."

A shiver runs through you from the tip of your head to the soles of your feet as though in truth a finger of bone was running down your spine. If it can track you what else can it see... who else?

Thankfully the path from the Senior Council's quarters to what's officially called the Chamber of the Unwritten, the place where lie in stately silence instruments of divination from all corners of the earth and eras going back millennia is short, likely because leadership past like leadership present wanted access to those tools for their judgements. Just past this door and...

Your senses scream as jets of super-headed water blast down the corridor which might at one time have been set with oil paintings, now just splintered wood and residue.

Behind the water you can see a pair of figures, both human, wielding staffs, thrall wizards not Namshiel.

What do you do?

[] Try to take them alive
-[] Write in

[] Leave them to Morgan, you have a Fallen to deal with

[] Write in

OOC: Sorry for the delay in answering guys. I wanted to get the update up.

 

[TheGrape]

Fighting Molly with water? Bold move, lads, let's see how well that turns out for you.

 

[DragonParadox]

Rolls
Bloom of Youth in case she needs it: 1, 2, 3
Does he notice

Weren't they out there exposed because the traitors gave them up? That's why the thing with the water spirit happened and presumably why there was a red duke getting ready for an ascension feast practically on top of them.

That aside, the infiltration is older than the war and everything they've done so far would work fine in peacetime too. The wizards just haven't been on the ball about anything from the bottom to the top this entire time.

It's possible to act with competence and still lose, but I can't recall them demonstrating anything like good decision making skills anywhere we can see them even with the information they have. Every proactive step has been into a trap. Every reaction is either lethargic or chaotic. Nobody is checking anyone's work.

If we were to make a list of good decisions they've made given the information they had what would go on it? Letting baby wardens run around vampire infested halls? Hell, letting any member go off without some pre established plan for keeping in contact?

I mean, they sent their best illusionist and a warder after some people using illusions to fake a vampire attack while they tore down the wards with the real deal, only for the illusionist to get vanished and the warder sent on a wild goose chase to another country.

It looks a lot like the council didn't need to be sabotaged that much because it has the strategic integrity of a football riot.

Click to shrink...

Morgan and company were hunting elder vampires. When the balloon dropped and the traitors panicked they sold him out to his intended target, but they were not planning to do that previously since they had judged it too noticeable

@DragonParadox sorry to ask this, since you're already explaining some things, but when this event is completely over, could you give an unbiased view of this whole mess? A lot of people, including me, really don't get the point you seem to be trying to make with the explanations and we're just seeing the incompetence of both WC and BC, one for having so many weaknesses that it seems like it would collapse with a gust of wind without us and the other for being an idiot for waiting so long when it seems like they could have won decades ago.

This whole arc has been smelling like general stupidity to everyone for a long time.

Click to shrink...

There is going to be debrief after this. I can tell you that much since Molly can see it IC by how pissed Ebenezer looks.

 

[Mithrill]

A brief reminder to planners: we have a bleach bottle for recharge if a lull occurs and there should still be some doses of healing potion and speed potion left