Because Morgan neither likes nor trusts Harry, so him being around might make things harder.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
LolThis is incredibly disappointing.
I mean, "Planaconda" was right there and you let it go.
More seriously; I see your point, but I don't think Demonreach is necessarily a great metric to judge by on this. That spirit is a freak of magical engineering. This approach may save us time as long as our stealth holds, but if something goes wrong it could eat up a lot of our time.
Worth noting in that context that it wasn't the FCF that got us caught in Vegas or when killing Ortega, it was RVD:
That said, its not just Demonreach; according to Arthur Langtry's Interlude, the White Council detected the first opening of a hellgate in Chicago all the way from Edinburgh, along with its duration.
And Peabody as secretary to the Senior Council has pretty good access to White Council intel feeds.
If Molly opens a hellgate in Brazil, there's a good chance they'll notice that as well.
As long as Peabody is in Edinburgh, you have to assume that he has access to all intel meant for the Senior Council, and move accordingly.
And thats just the people we know of. The Red Court, and other organizations have ways and means of their own.
They certainly have been incentivized to work on such detection methods after Molly vanished Duchess Arianna Ortega and her entire entourage in the middle of Central Mexico with no trace of a huge battle.
Thats the kind of event that concentrates minds.
RVD was loud because IIRC Molly did not have BMI then.
She does now, so when she's not flaring, BMI hides her magic aura as long as it was programmed to do so.
Worst case, one of her clones can carry her in a bottle of bleach.
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My personal assessment is that this operation was preplanned to remove Morgan and a bunch of older Wardens
They already have Luccio, the Warden Captain under control; if they removed her second in command and some of his cohorts, theyd be able to freely reshape the Wardens.
I could be wrong, but none of this feels like the sort of thing you throw together in half an hour.
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We dont really have the intel for targeted hits.And that sort of campaign would demand a response from the Reds against Molly's interests on general principles. I prefer to avoid doing my enemy a small injury; if we ever choose to do something like that, it should have a clear end goal, not just opportunistic hits that leave chaos in their wake.
Especially since the Nemesis conspiracy will happily take advantage if they can.
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Tres Frontreras and the surrounding areas is a region that, according to Wikipedia, appears to measure most of 18 million hectares across 3 countries.
Roughly 70,000 sq miles. And much of it is still tropical rain forest.
When Ebenezar McCoy calls back, or tries to contact him, better he's not in the middle of South America at the time.
Or entirely unreachable while in Sanctuary.
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Harry (and Carlos) are vulnerable to Red Court venom used as a weapon, as well as nerve gas, both things that the Red Court have historically used in canon and in this quest.
Since we dont have Fathomless Poison Haven at the moment, if you bring him, you'd have to bring Tiffany to keep him alive, as well as Lydia to cover her against unpleasant surprises, and at that point you might as well abandon all hope of surprise, because they will be able to see your occult murderball from space.
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While Harry is mistaken about how Morgan sees him?
It is still true that he has a......rocky relationship with many/most other surviving old guard Wardens, most of whom remember his history and view him with skepticism or suspicion. So if your plan is to persuade them, Harry is probably a liability.
And Carlos is barely 22, 4 years older than Molly; Butcher says he was 20 during Dead Beat.
Any arguments about age that apply to Molly apply to him; Wardens who are north of fifty or a hundred years old are unlikely to see any real difference.
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Also, this is a small snapshot of the Tres Frontreras area:
Alamy Stock Photos said:
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The Iguazu Waterfalls are around 10 miles away. The Argentine border appears to be mostly wilderness.
Not a great place for mobility if you have roughly human limits, and the opposition are blatantly superhuman physically.
Great place for Molly to move through though, between the climate, terrain and the water.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
During the first hellgate's opening the Five Courts were also being brought into being- which is something Lydia had also felt from wherever she was. Worth keeping in mind that probably had an influence on its noticeability.
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Here's what I remember was written:
Spirits can tell when a gate was opened.
I think its reasonable to assume that some of them can notice it, come what may.
At what range they can do so, and which spirits can do it at all, is unknown.
EDIT
Yacuruna Akariwe is a type of water spirit of the Amazon
There's a non-zero chance that the wizards we are looking for are currently underwater.Wikipedia said:
Not a problem for Molly who has Boiling Sea Mastery, but only Tiffany is equipped to make the depths of the Amazon, or its NeverNever reflection, survivable.
Spirits interpreted what they were feeling as the gate opening. Most of them would have no frame of reference for a Creation being manifested. Note how nothing like this ever happened afterwards.
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Welp, turns out I was wrong about how sick I am. My entire digestive system has seemingly chose to go on strike. I'll be going to the doctor on Monday, but in the meantime I feel like hell how so updates will come when and how I feel well enough to right to a quality that I feel is appropriate.
Thanks for your understanding guys and sorry for briefly turning this into a medical diary but if we are going to have a hiatus I felt you guys should know why
Thanks for your understanding guys and sorry for briefly turning this into a medical diary but if we are going to have a hiatus I felt you guys should know why
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Let's go guys. In and out. Twenty minute stealth mission.
[X]Plan Anaconda
-[X] No, you've convinced more stubborn people of more outlandish things, keep to the plan
-[X]Sophia + Alex + written notes from Harry+Carlos
-[X]STUNT: You consider the proposals for a moment, then shake your head firmly. "Sanctuary gates appear to be magically detectable to some, and we dont know who else is down there. I'd prefer to keep the element of surprise as long as possible." You check to see your phone is secured, then meet Harry in the eye, then Carlos, then Olivia. "Better to sweettalk some old fossils" a smile tugs at the corner of Lydia's mouth at your words "Than to cut our way through the human mercs and thralls the Red Court will put in the way of an obvious force. Just write me a note."
[X]Plan Anaconda
-[X] No, you've convinced more stubborn people of more outlandish things, keep to the plan
-[X]Sophia + Alex + written notes from Harry+Carlos
-[X]STUNT: You consider the proposals for a moment, then shake your head firmly. "Sanctuary gates appear to be magically detectable to some, and we dont know who else is down there. I'd prefer to keep the element of surprise as long as possible." You check to see your phone is secured, then meet Harry in the eye, then Carlos, then Olivia. "Better to sweettalk some old fossils" a smile tugs at the corner of Lydia's mouth at your words "Than to cut our way through the human mercs and thralls the Red Court will put in the way of an obvious force. Just write me a note."
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I forgot about that ruling, though it remains to be seen how that plays out. The illusion may strain under such extreme circumstances, or require us to pay to change disguises on both ends*. Still better than nothing though.
* As in pay for reapplications like changing between illusions of different people, not a price bump to the base thing. It wouldn't be totally unreasonable in my view if pretending to be water was treated as a separate mask from pretending to be baseline Molly, and that keeping water shape while on land or vice versa looked weird to the locals.
It'd be nice if it didn't, we'll see how it goes.
The council noticed it being made, which was very loud. Doesn't seem like it's been as extreme since then. At very least in Vegas it looked like the FCF entry wasn't detected and RVD was.
I expect they are looking, but they can't possibly anticipate bullshit charm games that we haven't used yet. If I was a red court security sorcerer my research focus would be on detecting Molly's water movement as far in advance as possible. It's an ability she's used for stealth insertions twice now that they've seen, in one case obviously appearing to bypass her active attempts at stealth.
Finding FCF portals would be valuable, but remember that she hasn't really opened them outside her places of power*. They aren't used to thinking of people as Way endpoints and we typically only use that ability when we're being loud anyway.
* The arctic was different, but they didn't know where they needed to be looking in advance to really see that.
1) Fair on RVD, but can the clones' teleports carry us that way? It Molly counts as a separate person to those sorts of effects then RVD shouldn't make a difference, and if she doesn't for soul hierarchy reasons there's some serious cheese potential.
2) Depends on what you started with. It's entirely possible it's coincidence, but the red court seeing RVD and then investing in water spirit wrangling as a counter could explain them being able to handle this. If they already have the pieces they just need to shuffle them around.
Either way I wouldn't count the council out, they kicked ass in the war despite the traitors. They took serious losses too, but I wouldn't want to be the guy assigned to hunt Morgan down when he's on the offensive.
I'm also not sure what point you're trying to make by bringing this up. Preparing to hunt wizards isn't the same as preparing to hunt us is that is what they were doing, and doesn't solve some of their basic problems with countering a blitz approach.
More troops and awareness help, but if they can't get government support out here I doubt they've pulled any meaningful AA this direction. Especially against platforms centuries ahead of the tech available. I wouldn't want to take WW2 level air defenses against a modern predator drone and that gap is smaller than this one.
3) Access to information is something we're good at. We should probably ask more questions anyway using pictures of Morgan from our hell and maps of the area. What the wizards's current plans are, what the red court's local plans are, who they have around, what counters they have for us, that sort of thing.
We have two reds in our hell as forever guests from our last assassination, they or some pictures of them should work for that. We need to balance the essence spend, we shouldn't go in blind if we can help it.
I see your point about precision, but this is a war. To an extent you can't just wait for the perfect opportunity, you've got to hurt your enemy's interests where you find them. Especially if we want to end this in some way other than canon's massive genocide ritual, which I think most of us would prefer. Breaking the political organization of the court in a way that leaves the species alive to give the post WW2 Germany/Japan reform treatment is going to require some more conventional engagement.
I'm not deterred by the idea of this sparking more conflict because I want to be at war with them.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
We can change the illusion without paying an additional essence. It's an ongoing effect.
Actually looking at this I 'm gonna leave this until morning since it is very close. I don't really have the energy to update 2 quests today so I might as well give you guys the time to discuss
As an attempt at an argument - it's unlikely we will be able to use stealth perfectly here. Or, rather,it's unlikely that we will be using it for the whole duration of the extraction / event. Because the spirit messenger has been attacked. The attack is happening soon or now. Not to mention that we'll need to drop BMI for Morgan to recognize us.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Why would that be a requirement? The appearance can be altered without dropping it.
Because he's definitely going to be using mystical senses. Possibly Sight. It's a very tense situation we are walking into.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
What does that have to do with your belief that we'd need to drop BMI for him to recognize us? Molly can alter the disguise to appear as herself without dropping it. She's done it before.
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We only met Morgan once and that was before we had BMI. We very definitively at the moment look like an imposter simply because for a long time we just had that aura.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
That's weird. If he uses the Sight he'll just pierce BMI or at least have a chance of it. I'm not going to entertain the argument that without the hell aura people are going to be inclined to think Molly is an imposter when there are other explanations including that she found a means to conceal it.
She's certainly done weirder things and we've never had this imposter problem before.
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I do feel the need to reiterate this Dresden is fucking crazy for how often he uses the sights on things that are dangerous to him. Morgan is also in a combat zone against beings that can use magic to steal faces and flesh. We can just turn off when we get there we don't have to turn off beforehand but it is a consideration to keep in mind.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
I doubt it'll be a requirement. Why would a face stealer use Molly's face of all people to speak to Morgan? Molly is a political entity too and has a dangerous reputation which makes it even less likely.
A question for a question why would Molly an ancillary but not white council participant in the war and arms supplier to the council be in the middle of the Amazon looking for him on what is supposed to be a secret mission by herself?
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
...Because of the traitor issue which we'll probably have to tell him of or at least hint at if we want him to pull out of an important mission and come with us. Also, Lily thinks that the spirit was using the Ways to get to Chicago which is Molly's known living place.
Which brings us back to why not a member of the White council. Hell the plan your voting for asks for a note but that is still less trust worthy when it comes from someone hidden by powerful illusion magic that needs the Sight to pierce.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Because we'd move slower as other people have weaknesses and tactical concerns that we lack. The situation is time sensitive so we need to be as fast as possible. At least some of the traitors are aware that Molly disconnected several people from their spy network. We've convinced people of more ludicrous things before and we'll be going in with notes from WC members for verification purposes.
Edit: And we'd be using BMI so the Rampires don't feel us as soon as we pop in or bring it down. Could just explain that to Morgan as well.
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Now we're back to votes I don't believe bringing people with our Kingdom allows any tactical vulnerability Uju32's supposition puts Red Vampires in the same sensory league as Demonreach the only non Exalted with Essence we have met so far and the on demand support to convince Morgan or slaughter anything that gets in the way is more valuable In my opinion. Good conversation all around we both made our points but I don't think either of us is changing our votes.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Uju's plan also involves bringing Molly and two of her clones. Including Morgan in that number and whatever support he has should be more than enough to deal with anything, especially since we aren't trying to kill Reds but extract Morgan and co.
Bringing a WC wizard would make convincing him to come along easier in theory but the more people you bring the greater risk you induce as the amount of people you need to move around in enemy territory increases and the party only moves as fast as the weakest link. Our goal here isn't to get bogged down burning time. Our main mission is still the WC plotline not whatever is going on over there.