I kinda want to go "Intelligence to oppose the Outside is free because I hate outsiders. Information on my powers is EXPENSIVE. I can tell you, but the answer will be equal parts disappointing, terrifying, and expensive. Three favors. It's a fair price. Both Winter and Summer paid it gladly."
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Pronouns
- ImBuda
[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
-[X] When abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. it is Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by name Ashraaah, perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
-[X] When abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. it is Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by name Ashraaah, perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
It's a good thing we bought another dot in Charisma recently though since we use it to deceive people we should probably max it out.
Anyway, we aren't obligated to tell Odin anything just like with Mab even if our sources maybe concerning. Something to keep in mind for the future, if we tell Odin stuff like this he's probably going to prod. We should consider interacting with him through proxies when possible and or just diminish interaction with him as much as possible.
I'd be nice if people start to associate Molly with Outsider uprooting though I think that our work in Winter and Summer on that was kept on the down low.
Anyway, we aren't obligated to tell Odin anything just like with Mab even if our sources maybe concerning. Something to keep in mind for the future, if we tell Odin stuff like this he's probably going to prod. We should consider interacting with him through proxies when possible and or just diminish interaction with him as much as possible.
- Location
- Who knows?
[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
@DragonParadox How viable is it for Molly to use a water source to reduce the DC right now? Does she have a bottle of water on her person?
Yeah, she keeps one on her.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Okay then. No reason not to reduce it for this.
[X] Plan: To bullshit a bullshitter
-[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
--[X] Spill some water over your head. You'll need it.
---[X] When abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. it is Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by name Ashraaah, perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
[X] Plan: Blinding the One Eye
-[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
--[X] Spill some water over your head. You'll need it.
---[X] Words clad in smothering shadows begin to flow from your lips (Shadow Spite Curse)
----[X] When the abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. It is the Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by the name Ashraaaf, a perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
-[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
--[X] Spill some water over your head. You'll need it.
---[X] Words clad in smothering shadows begin to flow from your lips (Shadow Spite Curse)
----[X] When the abyss dares gaze into me, I look back, and my sight is sharp, oh Father of Hosts. This one I recognize, for I have seen it before. It is the Not-Man, Once-Man, Husk, by the name Ashraaaf, a perversion of everything that is the Image of God.
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We just need a Target being in conversation with him immediately makes him an applicable Target or rather his effort to decipher our words for truthfulness or otherwise become the target. By the wording we just need to focus entirely on Odin in this moment for this charm to work and we are having a conversation with him. If we weren't in conversation with him I imagine we need to stare at some kind of depiction of him or otherwise use some kind of focus. Then again all the charm says is you must Focus on your target entirely and then make the roll so you could just keep them in your mind and then repeatedly make rolls to ruin the targets life which is what the charm is for.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
@DragonParadox I remember you saying earlier that we need a focus to use SSC on someone. Is that right or can we use it here?
[X] Stonewall him, you are not going to reveal your sources (Charisma+Etiquette vs ???)
-[X] "That's something I cannot share, no more than I would expect you to share the secrets of your power."
-[X] "That's something I cannot share, no more than I would expect you to share the secrets of your power."
One problem - it's an obvious (as in "can be seen with a naked eye") effect
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
From what DP said earlier we can't even use it here.
Well he can't really see us and unless we're going to send it over the phone I thought the words were what he was trying to comprehend and so coated them in shadow.
@DragonParadox do we really need line of sight for Shadow Spite Curse?
I thought that was because we were essentially a bottle of water inside of someone's pocket not really capable of hearing or seeing anything really. I imagine that makes it really hard to focus on someone when you cannot see them hear them or otherwise interact with them in any way.
No, it affects him in a visible manner - shadows come alive and interrupt him. That's how Nemesis detection function works
- Location
- Perth, Scotland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think that's entirely accurate, and (at least in my opinion) underplays the risks of lying to him: the best case scenario of stonewalling him would indicate that there's something to look for, yes, but the worst case scenario of lying could:
1) Indicate that there's something to look for, just like stonewalling would;
2) Make that something seem even more intriguing by virtue of us trying to hide it; and
3) Most immediately, could result in Odin not being willing to help us because he doesn't trust us (or, if he's being charitable, our sources)
That third aspect especially could fuck up our response to this quite badly.
This too. Even if we successfully lie to him now - which I'm not entirely confident on, given Odin's nature and the insight he might be capable of - how confident are we in our ability to sustain that deception? And if we can't, how badly might that backfire on us further down the line?
This, meanwhile, I really like. I'll admit that I don't have sufficient grasp of the mechanics to know what charms/excellencies/etc. to include in a plan, but I think I could write up a good stunt for this if someone would be willing to help with the other parts. Something like this, maybe:
[] Plan A Fair Price
-[] Tell Vadderung that while you are an ever-stalwart enemy of the Outsiders and their fell plots, you are willing to share information on your means only with sufficient recompense.
-- [] "I know that it is significant by means of far greater price than the knowledge they have garnered, Mr. Vadderung." You pause a moment, phone against your ear, to let that sentence hang in the air, words with the weight of brass. "Even with said knowledge being of such import."
-- [] "Intelligence on the plots of the Outsiders should be freely shared, because they are foes universal, but information on my methods has a commensurate price. I will tell you this: the answer would be enough to phase even you, oh Herfǫðr, Father of Hosts. Even you."
-- [] You let him think on that for a moment, only the sound of quiet breath crossing the line between the two of you, before continuing. "If you still wish for it? I am willing to bargain, but know that three favours untrammeled was a price both Courts deemed fair."
I'm assuming this would also be Charisma + Etiquette, which - unless I've misunderstood something - we're substantially better at that Subterfuge. If people could advise on what to insert for charms and the like, that would be appreciated, and I can edit them in. As would any feedback generally.
EDIT: Actually, was it three favours we got or two? I'm doubting my own memory here, but still, the general thrust of it stands.
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I don't think that's true you can affect every type of roll using SSC including economics politics and other non overtly physical rolls what you're describing is punching someone in the face and calling it a curse.
Edit: The charm specifically calls out blighting the efforts of the Target, rather than the target themselves.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
We really shouldn't be willing to tell him of the Crown even with three favors given. Knowledge of its mechanics is worth more than that. The Crown is by far our greatest asset.
Really we shouldn't be putting a price tag on it.
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Both approaches try to hide it, one just doesn't quite admit to it. In order to trust this information he has to trust our ability to look at the target. Even if we told him about the crown that'd still be the case. Implying a different power we actually have gave us the information we learned really change the equation on that.
There is no favor worth telling Odin of all people about the crown. I'm personally not even willing to entertain the idea of an offer on the chance that he takes it. Hell, even if he doesn't the framing you're using gives information away for free.
Odin lies, manipulates, and withholds information all the time. He's not going to take a moral stance against us for not giving the game away.
[X] Try to feed him the same half-truth you did Carlos about being able to see when someone is spying on you and look back (Lie: Charisma+Subterfuge against ???)
- Location
- Perth, Scotland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, there's a part of me that agrees with that, but it also feels - and maybe this is just a mis-estimation on my part - like there's some degree of inevitability to the knowledge getting out at some point.
Partly because there are those who already know aside from us, and - bluntly - partly because we're not exactly shy about using it (not that I think we should be, however) and that's going to raise some flags sooner or later - even if only enough to approximate the Crown's capabilities, that could be close enough as makes no difference (e.g. "Molly's enemies assume that she has intellectus of some manner".)
Given that, it feels like getting a price for it could be a lot better than the information getting out otherwise. And as for three favours, I did make a point of wording those as "three favours untrammeled", because that sort of thing from Odin is mighty indeed.
All that being said, I'm perfectly happy to listen to suggestions otherwise, I just really don't think trying to lie, in this particular moment, is a good idea. I'd be happier going with a straight stonewall, to be honest, for the reasons outlined earlier.
Some information getting out at some point is not the same as getting anything like an insider's look at it. Everyone we've ever shared information about it with has told us we shouldn't have done that and to keep it a secret. With the exception of Lash, who immediately tried to use her secondhand knowledge of the mechanics to trick us into making her immune to it.
We should maybe believe the experts when they tell us stuff like this and delay each additional leak as much as possible.
- Location
- Perth, Scotland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fair enough on the rest of your points - I even agree on some of them - but with this particular one: I certainly didn't think he would take a moral stance against us lying to him - he's Odin, after all, the famously sneaky bastard of Norse mythology (bar Loki, I guess) - but a pragmatic issue with it could be just as bad for our response to this whole situation if it leads to a refusal.